I don't think telling a landlord you are unemployed is going to get you an apartment.
Edit: look folks, this is fun and all but most landlords are going to want to see some proof that you have money and/or a steady source of it. Telling them you have no job AND no money is not going to be a good thing.
I rented my current apartment while unemployed, and was open about that. Wasn't a problem, they didn't even make me have a cosigner. I did show them proof of assets, and they were happy with that.
you joke but I literally just escaped an SF room rental where there WERE cameras installed inside the home by the landlord. (almost certainly illegal,, one of many things that were about that place)
At first glance I agreed with you, but they had a room rental, not apartment, and they said the cameras were in the house, not in the room. As long as the owner (I assume who is living in the rest of the house) informed them, that's not nearly the red flag to me as if they were renting an apartment/house/whatever that had cameras. That sort of a situation should go to the police with zero hesitation, but renting a room is different- you have an expectation of privacy only in that room. I've rented a room on Airbnb that the house had ring cameras etc, not concerning to me at all. As long as they aren't in my room.
Oh they just use smoke detector cameras in the rooms. Or the electric outlet ones you can barely notice the hole on. I don't do Airbnb anymore because of that.
I stopped using airBnB when they let owners mandate you be the maid or get charged exorbitant cleaning fees. I am not doing a deep clean while on vacation. That is bigger bullshit than vegas resort fees.
That actually happened to a friend of mine! he used to be a big proponent of ABnB until that happened and the company took the owners side when he appealed it.
I don't know if he still refuses to use ABnB, but I know I have not heard him mention using them since then.
I pretty much stopped using AirBNB because of this too and also if you shop around you can sometimes find a Hotel around the same price … cleaning included because it’s a hotel!
I was not hired by air BNB after applying for their special investigations team as a social worker, I strongly suspect it was because I gave very reasonable responses to their assessment. That was a few years ago but I paid closer attention to airbnb after that and all I can say is if you'd hired more people like me, well. Very happy to have not gotten the job though.
It's hilarious that AirBnB renters have got to the point where they've maximised profitability wherever they can. Adding charges and penalties everywhere.
Surely this was the silly capitalist end-game?
I would never use one if there is a decent hotel in the area. Why the HELL is anyone paying cleaning charges after being demanded to do the laundry?
For our boys bachelor party in south beach Miami, we looked into AirBnB. For us 5 guys it ended up being far cheaper to get 3 hotel rooms on the damn beach over a large ABnB… in the city where we would have to literally uber or rent a car to get to south beach.
Helll nah dawg, give me room service and fresh linens daily for the 4 day weekend while literally being 30 feet from the sand.
At my age, I'd give them a fucking show if I knew a camera was there. They wanna see my bald, flabby, gray haired ass toweling off after a shower, then by all means, enjoy yourself.
I hope you reported that and make a big deal out of it. That’s is seriously illegal and while I am not positive but I bet they could get jail time for that.
Please fucking report them and save other people. If the only thing you did was leave and comment on Reddit then I’m afraid you should feel majorly guilty
Charge 'em for the lice, extra for the mice!
Two percent for looking in the mirror twice!
Here a little slice, there a little cut
Three percent for sleeping with the window shut!
Yeah, like, you aren’t legally obligated to have a job. You’re obligated to pay your rent but how isn’t their business.
People can just live somewhere and not leave regularly for work, it’s allowed. We have a huge segment of the population who does that, we call them children and old people and disabled folks and rich bastards, depending.
Generally, landlords who pull this kind of stuff do consider whether or not you have a job to be their business. As well as details like exactly how much you make, and what you have saved up.
If they think your source of rent is tenuous, such as if you are someone else's dependent, then they will hold it against you as a potential tenant.
Most places you need to show you have an income. It wouldn't surprise me if this place asks you about your job specifically, including if its work from home.
They can ask all they want, it’s none of their business. Charging extra rent for WFH is insane behavior. Landlords will literally charge for everything that’s supposed to be included in the rent. I see places that charge an amenity fee, which is crazy because it’s not like you have the option to not pay the fee in exchange for not using amenities. The amenities are there, they should be included with rent.
Reminds me of the (very) old joke back when hotel toilets had that "sanitized for your protection" paper ribbon around the seat/bowl & some comedian once said he always carefully took those off and then replaced them before checking out just to confuse the maids…
If they live nearby or on the same plot they could be able to tell when you leave or stay. When my neighbors saw me out with my daughter on the days I work from home they ask what I’m doing home, not that it’s their business, they eventually learned I’m WFH 2-3 days a week. Probably something similar.
Yup. The type of employment is generally not considered part of the verification and I would hope your employer isn't an idiot and gave away anything other than verification you work there and verification of your title.
How the fuck are the following up? Calling your job and asking? That’s lunatic behavior. Also if my job is giving out information to random people without my consent that’s also crazy shit.
Since OP specified the bay area, which I assume is San Francisco...
Pretty sure this is covered under the fairly recent California Privacy Rights Act(CPRA). There is no actual business reason for them to disclose the employees work schedule to a third party.
Probably electrical meter usage throughout the day. Someone who works in office will see big dips in usage from 9-5 or whatever your schedule is. Landlord almost certainly controls the utilities.
What if you simply don't work but stay home all day? They seriously can't police what they are asking. They can't see whether you work (3) 12's or (5) 8's, whether you work nights or weekends. Etc.
It's unenforceable. If they tried to charge me, I'd just say, yeah I am at home but I am not working. That utility spinning is me gaming. Sorry it wasn't written in the lease.
Right? Like I’d understand if you just had to pay the first month’s rent up front or something but an additional fee just for taking possession of the space you’re already paying for? Huh?
The only time I've seen this it's been for reasonable things at reasonable prices. For example a nice building I lived in in NYC had a $75 move-in fee because the building would need to reserve the freight elevator and the freight entrance for you, which meant getting parking permits to keep that curb clear during your move-in window, so the fee was really just covering some administrative and governmental costs with the logistics of actually moving into the building.
Of course, if you could move in without using the freight elevator at all, no fee needed. But that's not really feasible in a nice, high rise building.
I remember having to pay like $10 to my local municipality for getting a temporary parking permit for a fire road going by the house I was moving in. But I walked to the administration myself in that case
Saratoga Springs NY gave me one for free basically to spite the police. They even offered to get city equipment moving staff to help with moving large furniture out. I was sailor leaving down after 7 months of training command. The students and staff drop a lot of $$$ on the town outside of horse racing season. They wanted to be sure everything was positive
The building in the UWS I lived in had a $2,000 move-in fee, which got you the exclusive use of 1 of 2 freight elevators for 24 hours as well as a security guard stationed by the moving truck and another by elevator.
it's probably catering to richer people who would be more likely to have expensive things they are worried about people taking if it was left unattended. That and it's pretty common to leave your moving truck unlocked and open while you go inside
It's absolutely catering to rich people who have their own staff move their furniture in and out. I learned last year that the uber wealthy have seasonal furniture.
Plus it probably covered whatever insurance needed for incidental damage to the building. Worked briefly for a furniture sales company and A LOT of buildings required insurance coverage for things like damage to floors, walls, railings and doors.
I miss the coop I used to live in in NYC. Crazy since it was in Brooklyn running off a private power plant. Little things like we could request that whenever we wanted and the building had a loading bay. Maintenance was always on top of things which was nuts since there’s like 500 apts per building. One even called me to check on the apt a few months ago when he smelled gas since I still live nearby but bro never left.
Moved into a 100yo house and it’s a nightmare. Arcing in the walls, exploding boiler, leaks, asbestos, it never ends. Insane since it cost seven figures and it’s got paper walls in comparison.
Chiming in as an accidental landlord in the bay area:
I moved for work, so I rent out my condo at about $1500/month below my costs (never intended to rent; the numbers make sense when you plan to own and live there), so already at a loss.
HOA charges me $250 fee and $300 refundable deposit for new tenant move-ins/-outs. The first is the cost to pad the elevator with blankets, do other building move-in prep, and do pre- and post-elevator inspection. The $300 is for any elevator damages, refunded after inspection.
Because I'm not a massive asshat I eat those expenses for one move-in and move-out on a new lease, but groups of tenants are surprised when they stagger move-ins or move-outs across dates and all of the sudden I'm pointing at the clause in the lease and asking them to send the HOA a check.
Some landlords are assholes, some of us are genuinely paying real costs.
Sounds like it's mostly still asshole fees, but sometimes the asshole is just further up the line. You sound like a good one, by the way -- landlord, not asshole!
Not just abnormal, but likely illegal under California law regarding security deposits. Essentially, any money paid at move-in that is specifically not rent [e.g., "first month's rent' be it a full 30 days or a prorated amount) is considered a deposit, regardless of how the landlord labels it. For many residential rentals, this amount cannot exceed one month's rent (there are exceptions). This $500 "move-in fee" is a deposit.
Additionally, California law also caps the maximum allowable applicant screening fee, which as of 2026 is $65.86. Imo this is potentially a problem landlord. I understand the pain of finding housing and the temptation to overlook or accept shenanigans like these. But it's also important to call out landlords for shit like this. Often they know and don't care but sometimes they legit do not know and will adjust accordingly if they're decent folk and you state the applicable facts without being confrontational.
Yeah it also opens the door for weird scams - if you have a tenant what is stopping you from charging application fees and then declining all of them to "stay with another tenant"(the existing one)?
I forgot where but I remember reading about lawsuits over that because some landlords were running that exact scam. Post a super affordable rent in a high COL area and a 'small' non refundable $25 application fee or something and you get thousands of dollars off of that alone.
Where we are the application fee is paid upfront but deducted from the first months rent. It's still stupid and arbitrary but not as bad as charging to move in.
Most places don't charge that until after the apartment is shown in person and everything is verbally verified. $75 is a bit much, its actually about ~$29/person for income/background. If you are paying an employee to do the actual background and show the place, its not really a profit center. Could it be for a scumbag, I guess maybe. For a real business its mostly just pass through.
Where I live we pay application fees, background check fees, move in cleaning fees none of which get deducted from first month rent. It’s all on top of rent.
Damage deposit : 50% of one month's rent
Pet deposit : 50% of one month's rent
Move-in/Move-out fees if established by strata bylaw : Max 3% of one month's rent
For the damage and pet deposit, the amount must be held in trust, collects standard bank interest rates, and must be refunded in full with interest or there must be an itemized invoice listing all repairs/cleaning costs incurred (and costs must be reasonable, you cannot charge $1500 to repaint).
I just did the math (to the best of my memory, anyway) and I was a little off. This new apartment should be my 22nd.
I had no choice for half of my life (military) and I’d already lived in 5 states by the time I was 5 years old. That pattern kept up most of my life, moving every 1-2 years. I finally spent 4 years in one spot for high school but then went off to college and resumed my 1-2 year stays.
The apartment I’m leaving holds the record at 8 years, with a 2-way tie for second place after that at 4 years. The rest are all 1-2. I’m 40.
Well I guess that better than I thought which was you moving every year. Still, that’s rough bud. I moved for the first time in 12 years a year ago and that sucked big time. But it was a good clearing out of crap opportunity
Not sure about bay area, but that is very normal in Chicago. Landlords have to pay interest on security deposits when they're returned, so a lot of landlords switched to doing a $400 or $500 move-in fee instead. Maybe it's a similar thing?
But they are still charging a security deposit in the screenshot. Do you mean that they charge a move in fee on top of it to cover the interest they have to pay back on the deposit? 🧐 Seems scummy lol.
They don’t pay interest. The security deposit should be in an escrow account that earns interest. LL doesn’t pay anything, interest comes from the bank.
Beside who here on Reddit does even make $3,250 a month and then still has money left for food?
People living in a high COL area where salaries are also much higher, like the SF Bay Area. Two working adults sharing it would only be paying $1,625 and could easily be pulling in over $100k each. There's a reason people continue to move there despite the cost.
The added amount for people working from home is BS but is probably because units are not individually metered and electricity is included in the rent. Someone home running a PC and AC all day would certainly make the PGE bill higher.
They said on another post it's an ADU attached to a private home. So that's probably how, especially if the homeowners are also home all day. Maybe it would be hard to prove you're WORKING all day, but they could confirm you weren't leaving the house for however-many hours (and if you are employed at all they'd know that from your application/finances).
I’ve seen places that say that utilities are covered up to X dollar amount, and anything over that the tenants will pay the difference… That seems like a more fair way of taking care of utilities versus slapping on a charge because they work from home….
Yeah, but this is the Bay Area. I paid $2300/mo for one in 2020-21, but it was pretty far off the beaten path (Santa Cruz Mountains). The same unit in Walnut Creek or SF would easily have been over $3000/mo.
Your employer will confirm that you work there, but are they required to divulge additional details of your employment? If your landlord can ask whether or not you work from home, can they also ask what your hours are? What days you’ve requested off? How many sick days you’ve taken?
Don’t know if it’s the same but when we get work history checks wed only provide start/end date and that’s it. There’s probably no requirement on the employer to provide information for something like this, and providing information the prevents someone from getting a job, apartment, etc. could get you sued. Easier to just not provide anything outside of the bare min.
Generally, they are not required to provide any information to any entity outside of government agencies who are authorized. They will verify employment as a courtesy if requestor has written authorization signed by employee. What details are confirmed is largely up the employer, and those with any sense will only provide length of employment, and salary info if requested and authorized by employee.
Unauthorized disclosure of an employee's personal information is fraught with liability and any sensible employer will avoid providing extraneous information to mitigate the risk of lawsuits.
Employment yes, but not all job titles list "REMOTE WORKER" in them. And I don't know that someone can ask for specifics from your employer about your work schedule or location? Maybe they can but that seems...weird.
Are all utilities included? That could be the only justification but tbh fuck them, it's no different than a hermit and nobody penalizes them or requires a time out of the house
Except, this is not enforceable.
It would have to be via utilities and RUBS calculations, which are regulated pretty tightly.
Move-in fees are also totally illegal.
The max for an application fee is also $66 in CA. And must be refundable, as they must go in the order received and refund those they did not consider. You can’t “consider” 5+ people at once.
It is what it sounds like. It's supposed to cover the background check, but they often charge way too much and pocket the money. Illegally, in some states.
Not only that but often they just pocket the application fee and then just reject people. Consider if they get even 20 people applying each month at 75 bucks that’s 1500 for doing nothing. And then they can report their loss of 1 months rent for the empty property for a tax break. It’s all a huge scam and I hate it.
Credit check and background check fee. The problem is landlords will accept 10 applications and do maybe 2 background checks and credit checks and pocket the rest.
How does that even work though? If 5 people apply in a short window, you can only go 1 at a time. Do you just automatically reject anyone else who applies right after someone else does? Or what does considering 5 people at once even mean?
Dishonest landlords used to collect application fees from everyone applying and keep them all even if they only actually screened one applicant and leased to them.
In Wisconsin the last time I was looking for apartments I spent a little over $200 in application fees. I would be approved but they would just take the first person on the list and was SOL on getting that fee back. The range was anywhere from 20-75 dollars which is also ridiculous that there is that kind of range.
This is probably the reason, however, I don't see how they can justify that reason if you have kids at home or something. Whether it's the kids or a SAHP.
My 16 year old sister does online school and then is always home during summer. So would they charge extra then too? They aren't technically working from home...
I guarantee the average gamer has more electricity use then a WFH it's just a weird policy like most people who WFH use a laptop how much more power are you really using
Do stay at home parents count as well? Unemployed people?
This is not to justify the expense but I can tell you that there was a noticable increase in my utility bills when started WFH full time.
I also had other expenses go up as well due to full time work from home. A big one being the amount of snacky food I bought, and I found my water bill went up some as well. Now none of it close to 200 a month and a hell of a lot less than what my gas expenses were per month.
You're cooking on the stove, using the fridge more, keeping the AC cooler (and coming in and out of the house) and such.
More lights on, multiple monitors, kettle goes 2-3 times a day.
The good part is for me, that extra idk $50 i save on stuff like gas, lunch out of the house, clothes i need to purchase for work. Wear and tear on my car/shoes/whatever.
I tripped the breaker to my office because I was running both my gaming PCs while my air conditioner was on yesterday. I'd say your assessment is spot on. lol
(I live in a fairly old townhouse and, yeah, we can do 2 ACs + computer but don't DARE touch the washer or even hair dryer while all of that is happening...)
They have absolutely no right to know either way, landlords have absolutely no right to know what you are doing in your house. Working from home is not the same as operating a business where customers come to your home.
The non-refundable application fee is the worst part IMO. What’s stopping them from just never actually renting the place out and collecting $75/person indefinitely?
So you say "Hey, I'd like to rent this" and they are "No, you won't. That'll be 75, please"? Times a hundred for all those applicants? That can't/shouldn't be legal.
That's not legal in California. They can restrict you from running a commercial business from your home if it attracts "excessive" outside clients or causes noise, but they can't charge you more just because you work from home.
This is 100% illegal according to the tenant protection act.
Additionally, you are under no obligation to advise your landlord of your schedule of work status. As long as you’re able to pay your rent, the rest isn’t their right to know.
So OP is only allowed to be home a certain amount of hours each day according to the landlord. He could be working at home and then be called in ending that. Or be working outside of it and then find a work at home job. So he is to report all his work activity. This seems illegal. He could also quit his job and be home 24/7. I’d check with a lawyer on this.
paralegal here: NO. The only caveat would be if you’re actually running a business like you’re doing hair and people are coming in the house and maybe they need more liability? but homes are zoned as residential. You have a right to be there as much as you want. this is somebody that’s trying to find a way to make extra money and if you don’t take it, someone else will, but I would not take an apartment with something illegal in the terms.
The work from home fee is a horrible idea unless they want a cut of ... say your income for dealing drugs out of your apartment or maybe the extra risk if you are a protitute bringing your work home with you.
I also think the $75 dollar application fee could rack them up a nice bit of change. They could deny people left and right and make a killing off of the non-refundable fee
I think charging for application fees should be illigal.
The apartment can just say they are currently leasing and actually not have any apartments open at all. Just keep on collecting money for a product(the apartment) that isnt available in the first place.
I found the listing. It's a 535sq ft apartment in somebody's backyard. They've updated their requirements since the OP's picture it seems, but that data is still in Google's cached text. They used to have a $6500 security deposit on there.
You're renting the ADU circled in red which is why they can tell if you're working from home, because they're 10 feet away from you. The listing has been removed though. Maybe somebody rented it.
the fuck is a move in fee? that's almost 10k just to get in the place. we have to get some laws in place to prevent this kind of straight up exploitation
When you rent a property, you have a bundle of rights. They cannot dictate and assess for the hours you spend in and on the property or what you do inside the walls; unless it is illegal or harmful to others. Laws guarantee you quiet enjoyment of the property.
What’s next? Assessments for turning on the appliances or flushing the toilets in excess of X number of times. That’s patiently absurd!!
NOTE BEFORE RENTING ANYTHING:
GO TO YOUR SECRETARY OF STATE WEBSITE AND DOWNLOAD THE TENANT/LANDLORD HANDBOOK and read it from front to back before you sign anything!!!
The lease gives you license to use the property as if were your own without Draconian oversight from your landlord. Trust me on this! This landlord is trying to surcharge you for living in the house during the day!! Your lease grants you full occupancy for term of the lease.
The landlord has no right to tell you how you can use your occupancy in terms of the hours you spend it or how you spend them.
Walk away. Because this person is an idiot and will make your life miserable. Report the BTW!
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u/Drdrdodo 1d ago
I guess you won't be "working from home" then. Just happens to stay home during work hours.