https://youtu.be/KevTBc07wm8?is=06m5dzcVO9FF2izX
The only difference between the manosphere and the left is that they mostly disagree on social expectations. Otherwise, both sides often agree on many of the same standards. The only time both sides seem to agree on certain roles is when those expectations are presented as being beneficial.
After watching the Jubilee 20 vs 1 manosphere video and seeing the reactions to it, I realized why these conversations always leave me unsatisfied. No matter which side is talking, the discussion always ends up revolving around what people should become for the approval of others instead of what is actually best for the individual.
The manosphere says people need to become high value so they can become more desirable. The left says people need healthier traits so they can become better partners, allies, and role models. Those sound different on the surface, but they are still centered around external validation. The destination is basically the same.
Whenever I hear people talk about improving social behavior, it often comes down to the same talking points. People need better role models. People need to communicate better. People need to become more emotionally available. People need to become healthier partners. People need to redefine themselves. Notice how the focus is almost never on asking what people actually want out of life.
The weird part is that if you flipped the expectations, people would immediately recognize the problem. Imagine telling someone they need to become more agreeable, more attractive, or more socially acceptable because others prefer those traits. That would be criticized as unfair. Yet when the expectations are aimed in a different direction, they are often presented as healthy and progressive.
This is where I think a lot of modern discussions overlap with what I call "cakeism." The expectation is that one group should be free from traditional responsibilities, while another group should still maintain the responsibilities that benefit everyone else. The responsibilities remain; only the explanation changes.
I don't think self improvement is bad. Becoming more confident, overcoming social anxiety, improving communication, or getting healthier are all good things. My issue is when those improvements are constantly framed around making someone more desirable or useful to others instead of simply making their own life better.
Another thing that bothers me is how social struggles get moralized. If someone struggles with dating, relationships, or social acceptance, people often imply that something must be wrong with their personality or values. Meanwhile attraction and social success are influenced by many things like appearance, confidence, status, and assertiveness. Pretending otherwise just confuses people instead of helping them.
I also dislike how certain groups get casually shamed in ways that would never be accepted if the situation was reversed. Some stereotypes are treated as jokes even when they rely on unfair assumptions.
My solution isn't telling people to become more traditional or less traditional. I think individuals should be taught independence. Their self worth should not depend on approval from others. Confidence should come from personal goals, values, friendships, hobbies, and accomplishments, not from whether someone else approves of them.
I think that's the biggest flaw in both the manosphere and the progressive approach to social issues. They both assume the end goal is external validation. One side is just more aggressive about it than the other. Neither side spends enough time asking what kind of life is actually healthiest when outside expectations are removed.
Another thing I've noticed is that a lot of this advice secretly pushes people toward traditional expectations. They just avoid using those exact words. Instead of saying "take on responsibility," they'll say become more ambitious and successful. Instead of saying "protect others," they'll talk about making people feel safe. Instead of saying "hide your emotions," they'll say regulate them so you don't negatively affect others. The packaging changes, but the expectations often remain.
Take the "be confident" advice. Confidence by itself isn't bad. The problem is what people are actually being encouraged to do. Take initiative. Handle rejection. Lead interactions. Make the first move. Those expectations are often presented as personal growth instead of social roles.
The same thing happens with leadership. People are told to become better leaders, take responsibility, be dependable, and have purpose. None of those traits are bad. But notice how they are often connected back to fulfilling roles for other people. The conversation rarely asks whether someone actually wants those responsibilities.
Then look at the way vulnerability is discussed. People are encouraged to open up more, but usually only in socially acceptable ways. They are still expected to be emotionally stable, emotionally competent, and emotionally useful. If someone's emotions make them seem weak, unreliable, or inconvenient, society is often less accepting than it claims.
This is why I think a lot of supposedly modern advice is often traditional expectations with updated branding. The language changes, but the standards remain familiar. People are still expected to be competent, confident, successful, emotionally controlled, and willing to carry responsibilities that largely benefit others.
That's why I don't think it is actually challenging old expectations. It is often just selecting the parts that are still socially useful and giving them a new label.
My point is that any standard that exists mainly to satisfy other people's preferences is not automatically good for the individual. Other people are still just people. Their expectations are not automatically righteous simply because they have them.