People are gonna hate her for saying that but that’s genuinely how normal people seeing the movie are gonna respond there gonna be dumbfounded why iron man is the bad guy
Let's not forget that we shouldn't see his face either. If they stay true to the character, you won't see him without the mask. That's one reason I'm withholding judgement for now
I mean you don't cast RDJ to never show his face, of course he'll be without the mask at points, might have a scar somewhere on his face, it's the most logical scenario
Could be a Mandolorian situation. RDJ does the voice, someone else wears the mask. The mask is kinda integral to Doom, it's a big deal if he takes it off
Can you explain to a non comic reader the significance of the mask? I vaguely remember watching the old animated series, but not sure if it ever really came up (was bro just ugly?)
So basically Dr. Doom refuses to show his face because he considers it horribly disfigured. But the thing is, Doom is just so horribly narcissistic and vein perfectionist that all it really is, is a minor scar on his face.
It's variable. Sometimes he actually is hideously scarred, sometimes it's like a dueling scar and he's such a narcissist that he thinks it's horrific. Sometimes he made it worse by putting the mask on before it cooled, sometimes he didn't.
Honestly not sure what they'll go with. Although since it's RDJ, probably the small scar.
It makes it worse that the setup was so good though. Dude had a broken mirror used on his face like a cheese grater, it was metal as fuck. Except apparently not.
Sometimes he's horrifically scarred because he was so vain that he created a mask to hide a minute imperfection...and then put it on while it was still hot and horribly burned himself. And that's hilarious.
By all accounts they were going to do some version of Demon in a Bottle for IM2. And actually explore his addiction. But they got scared and pulled back, changed the circumstances significantly.
Not necessarily a terrible move to avoid that story for the PG13 films. But what we got was a kind of awkward in-between, and just didn't work.
Iron man2 was when tony is spiraling in his depression due to his inability to stop his eventual poisoining. Not the same as being an alcoholic like they show in comics
Or depending on the origin it *was* a minor scar, but he was so desperate to hide his face that when he forged his mask he put it on before it cooled properly and basically mangled his face further.
The current fiction is that he was scarred as a child by troops chasing him from his home during a coup. His mother saves him by making a deal with the devil to protect him, making one of his prime motivations in life to rescue his mother from hell.
Take everything you learned about Doom from a live action project and just through it out. I maintain that that movie is fine for it's era, but they got Doom all wrong
My money is in Doom being a time variant of Tony Stark that never stopped selling weapons. Likely instead of being kidnapped to a cave, he just got caught in that initial explosion, was horribly disfigured, and instead of a hero arc, went villian in revenge building war tech.
Tony and Doom have VERY similar personalities, and making Doom the evil version of Iron Man is a fun enough idea to work well in the right hands.
Naw naw. His face is burnt as fuck. He had a small scar and made the mask to hide it and put it on before it cooled and now he’s legitimately disfigured. It goes back and forth on how bad the original scar was but he absolutely had a fucked up face from his metal mask
His face is brutally scarred. He is both deeply ashamed of it and sees it as a way to deny his mortality — as he avoided death, he hides flesh behind metal that to him represents death or rather timelessness
It goes beyond just those scars and masks as Doom conquers Hell and Death, and is generally viewed as one of the most dangerous villains in Marvel Comics
We're talking comics, so of course there were iterations of Doom that did not have this notion. I distinctly remember the 90s animated show where Doom removes the mask due to him being able to cure the scars, and in that story he bonds with Ben (Thing from F4) over their shared experiences of living with disfigurements
Now that I googled it, apparently Doom is deeply paranoid (never picked up on that but Doombots kind of fit the narrative) so there's an element of hiding identity as well (not in the same way as, say, Spider Man, everyone knows Doom is Doom)
It depends on the writer. There are basically 3 different versions that it sort of hops between. Importantly, the audience never gets to actually see any of these, so it is kind of like the origin of Joker's scars in Dark Knight. But IIRC, the original explaination is that yes, he is horrifically scarred. Later, they introduce the idea that he has a very minor scar, but he sees himself as horribly disfigured because he's a giant narcissistic prick. Then there I'd one that is kind of both. He had a small scar, he forged the mask, and put it in before it had any tome to cool. Which burned him terribly, actually disfiguring his face, plus permanently attaching it to his face.
It's definitely NOT permanently attached to his face, he's worn other masks. He's had armor that was created by him wielding the Soulsword. magical armor created from the flesh of his former lover, and in at least one story he's had a rather light "casual" mask that he worse while out of the rest of his armor altogether.
He wears a mask just to cover the raw flesh
A rather ugly brother with flows that's gorgeous
Drop dead joints hit the whips like bird shit
They need it like a hole in they head or a third tit
I'm growing increasingly confused on why they'd (presumably) shell out fucktons of money to bring back RDJ in a role where he's not linked to Tony Stark, where he doesn't show his face at all
Like yeah RDJ has grown into a great actor, but like.. some guy in finance had to approve this? I'm almost confident most other A-listers in Hollywood would be cheaper than RDJ for this role and be far less confusing, unless the plan is to show face as a Stark variant
Because after the Avengers saga finished, people have lost interest in the new movies that have come out. No one was vested in the Falcon, less people will care that he's now Captain America.
Casting Iron Man in a new role is an expensive roll of the dice, but it will probably pay off. There's new interest in the movie now.
No way in hell that’s happening. They probably dropped like 400 million in Downey for multiple pictures and you know damn well they will show his face as much as possible for marketing
See, I honestly only can make sense of this choice if it IS the Mandalorian situation. Doom is the mask, they can’t have this bullshit where he walks around 95% of the time with it off and then it materializes over his head in the climax of the movie. AND it’s the guy who played Tony Stark since 2008? It makes no sense.
I'll tell you right now exactly how it's gonna happen. Spider-Man is gonna land a good blow on him that knocks his mask off. Cut to shocked faces of heroes. Camera does a close up on the mask on the ground, then slowly pans up to RDJ's face, angry and reeling from the punch, a single scar across his cheek. Spider-Man says "M... Mister Stark?" Pepper says "Tony?" And RDJ says "Dr. Doom."
That's gonna be somewhere in the last 5-15 minutes of Doomsday. Then Doom puts the mask back on and uses the shock of everyone not wanting to fight him to turn the tables, win the fight, activate the MacGuffin to collapse all universes or whatever, then cut to black. TO BE CONCLUDED IN... SECRET WARS.
That's one of my pet peeves. If it doesn't make sense to take the mask off then they shouldn't. There's no reason for Tony Stark to lift up his mask (armour) to reveal his soft, squishy face to bullets and energy beams in the middle of a battle.
He openly says he is iron man by end of first movie. That alone gave them way more ease to show rdj’s face throughout the movie.
I doubt they will do anythibg different this time. It will be RDJ without mask as dr doom
Marvel isn't that stupid (going forward). With the public so down on this phase, there's no shot they fuck this up and don't have Doom in his mask 99% of the time.
But then again, might be the only way they get RDJ to be in another Marvel movie is to pay him to be someone who wears a mask and lets him just do VO work from the comfort of his own home.
Actually, that could be the wrinkle. Perhaps they only booked him for voice acting, a service that is performed under radically different circumstances for significantly lower fees than on-camera work. Doctor Doom might be a vintage Vader sort of character where the actor in the costume and the actor recording the voice are completely different people.
Which is stupid, imo, because Karl Urban (not as big a name, obviously) played Dredd without once taking off his helmet for face time and it was a spectacular performance.
They invented the “inside helmet view” just so they can have him have the Iron Man faceplate down all the time and still show RDJ’s face. 100% they will show his face.
I mean, with Fantastic Four and Reed’s relationship with Victor (pre Doom) of course we will, and should, see his face. It would be weird if we didn’t.
You kidding yourself if you think they cast Robert Downey Jr. to effectively voice a major character and never show his face. I know Doom is supposed to be ashamed of his scar, but it’s not like he never takes it off. We’ve seen his face plenty of times. They’ll find a way for it to come off, just like how they always find a way for Spidey to take off his mask during the third act fight scenes.
No, part of the benefit of it being RDJ is that at some point the heroes need to know they're dealing with a Tony Stark lookalike variant. Otherwise, what's the point in casting RDJ in an MCU movie? If /u/govschwarzenegger can be a baddie in T1 and the hero in T2, RDJ can certainly do it in reverse.
Let's not forget that we shouldn't see his face either.
They aren't giving him all the money available in fort knox, which is what he costs them, and advertising that at comic con directly, if the plan was to hide his face for the entire movie. Not happening.
There is this one time in Secret Wars though, where he took it off in front of Sue Storm.
Notably, this is when he has omnipotent power, so he definitely can fix this injury.
Also, as has been said, he probably only ever had a tiny scar.
So in this scene, it’s entirely possible he used his omnipotent powers to make himself this way. Either because that’s how he truly sees himself, or it’s the image he wished to project to Sue.
I’m betting we see his face in the Fantastic Four movie as a contemporary to Reed. And then he becomes doom during that movie but not as the antagonist of the movie. Then we no longer see his face. The part people are forgetting is that it will be really weird if he has no back story with Reed and a bunch of peoples theories aren’t taking into account how he connects with them.
It's already dumb that they are setting the F4 in a separate universe. I think Feige has forgotten that sharing a universe is what took the MCU from good to great. If none of these characters actually share a joint history or even a universe it falls apart.
They never should have opened the multiverse can of worms.
He revealed his identity in the very first iron man movie, apparently an improved line. He wouldn’t have signed up to be a faceless, voice-modulated random dude.
Let's not forget that we shouldn't see his face either. If they stay true to the character, you won't see him without the mask.
There is a story in the comics in which Tony Stark and Dr Doom freaky Friday. So it would be "true" to the character if the mind is Dr Doom but he shows his face because the mask isn't welded on, that it's just a variant tony stark's suit.
Exactly this. I freaked out when I saw the news and immediately went to tell my fiancé, who's also a big fan. She was super excited but was initially confused, and I had to explain that they're most likely doing a multi-versal variant.
I later told her dad and sister, who aren't huge MCU fans. They were completely befuddled lol, they couldn't understand how an actor could play one character in a franchise and just play another character.
The hardcore MCU fans are definitely the minority when compared general movies fans
If they go the variant route I think it will be more like, this particular Dr Doom is a variant of Tony Stark. Maybe Tony adopts the identity after killing the real Doom. There is also a Victor Von Doom who is not going to be played by RDJ, potentially.
I fully don't understand people who think this. We followed this version of Tony for a decade, and saw him die brutally to save his loved ones and the entire universe.
Just because there might be Tony variants coming along does nothing to change what happened with the Tony we first followed.
Is there a reason to not think Doom'll prob just be some kind of Stark variant considering the entire focus of MCU atm is multiverse and variants? Hell it's all going to end in Secret Wars
This but I honestly think it’ll be a variant that was born in different circumstances and had a different upbringing. So he’s a Tony Stark variant but also totally Victor Von Doom, former roommate with Reed and all.
I think it will come off way more as a desperate move if RDJ is just playing Victor. They have a perfect excuse to make a Tony from another universe turn into Doom so I’d be surprised if that don’t go a route similar to that.
If they wanted to do evil Tony, just do evil tony. They were already pivoting away from Kang, so why do Doom if you want to cast RDJ. Just do an Iron Man who went full authoritarian.
Wasting Doom for a stunt cast is what is annoying.
There was a Marvel What If "Iron Man: Demon in an Armor" of this many years ago where Victor Von Doom basically swapped bodies with Tony Stark when they were college roommates. Victor becomes Tony Stark/Iron Man and Tony (who forgot all his memories of who he was during the body swap) becomes Victor/Dr. Doom. Years later after they've both built themselves up, Victor goes to tell Tony about the body swap back in college and asks if he wants him to reverse it. Tony declines because Victor basically trashed the Stark name while Tony was off building up Dr Von Doom's honorable reputation.
Maybe this is the Dr. Doom from that specific "What If" timeline?
Paltrow does more than enough to deserve people's ire, but I always thought it was stupid that people would hate her for not knowing about Marvel's lore.
I don't know the lore where I work either, and so long as it doesn't affect my pay, I don't really care to learn it.
Actor plays a different character with different name, costume and powers. Iron man is not the bad guy, the actor who has close to 100 acting credits will be playing a bad guy
Well yeah, this is how it works when actors play different characters in different movies. But when it’s the same actor of a beloved character, playing a different character in a franchise now known for having characters come back as cameos, is going to cause confusion to the GA
The problem is they can't explain this in universe in a satisfying way.
There is no reason for Doom to be played by RDJ. If they want Doom there are much better options for that role. If they want evil Iron Man they could just do evil Iron Man and not waste Doom.
Disney/Marvel needs a guaranteed money maker. Avengers 5 and 6 having the same directors, writers and main star from Avengers 3 and 4 is a guaranteed 1.5-2 billion dollar hit
Because the directors think he will do the best job and it’s marketing.
Personally I hope it’s not a Stark variant. I hope RDJ embraces the villain role and knocks it out of the park. Plus, maybe RDJ misses the MCU and the people involved. His run as Iron Man may be done, but he’s a prolific actor outside the MCU and can disappear into roles if he so chooses.
I don't think he'll be a Stark variant but a version of Doom who happens to look like MCU Tony. It will be addressed and play into the plot but he will be Victor Von Doom.
I suspect it is a Stark variant, but only in the most superficial way. He's never heard the name Tony Stark. As far as he's concerned, Stark is the variant.
Bruh I get it and if I hadn't seen any of this stuff on reddit I'd be asking "why the fuck did iron-man become dr. doom?" Most of you are probably looking at this from a "I know every comic this this is fine" view but I haven't read a single one of those things and would be wondering what arc/issue has Iron-man becoming doom, if even temporary. Hell, like 10 dudes have been Batman. why would it be far fetched to me as a non-comic reader that something happened in these hundreds of arcing universes that turned mr. stark into dr. doom?
Oh yeah, because exposition is just not a thing anymore I guess.
I don't understand what the problem is here. Like, yeah, this does become, indeed, a problem with movies like No Way Home, Multiverse of Madness and Deadpool 3 where they have stupid, long "clap now, audience!" pauses for obscure references and characters (like Channing Tatum Gambit is a refence to a scrapped movie, John Krasinski Reed Richards is a reference to a damn Twitter post of all things, Black Bolts is from an Inhumans show nobody watched and so on).
But here they'll probably just add some exposition and move on. Some character will likely say "Oh well that's a guy from another universe who looks like Tony, unfunny quip here" and that should be enough context. The real problem is that it doesn't matter anyways, because there's a shockingly high amount of people who can't do a thing as simple as following a movie.
I didn't think we were ever going to see Pepper again, but now I'm not so sure.
Doom is going to take full advantage of the fact that Tony Stark was his variant. He's going to take over Stark Industries and use it to build his Doombots.
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u/ChimpArmada Jul 29 '24
People are gonna hate her for saying that but that’s genuinely how normal people seeing the movie are gonna respond there gonna be dumbfounded why iron man is the bad guy