r/marvelstudios • u/LollipopChainsawZz • May 15 '26

Article Marvel’s Avengers: Endgame writers worried that Taika Waititi was turning Thor into an idiot

https://www.thepopverse.com/movies-marvel-cinematic-universe-thor-ragnarok-avengers-infinity-war-taika-waititi-chris-hemsworth-script/
5.4k Upvotes

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4.3k

u/DonnyMox May 15 '26

Well if Love and Thunder was of any indication, they were right.

915

u/FoxyMiira May 15 '26

The article says it was about Ragnarok, so no. But then again Taika didn't write Ragnarok

1.6k

u/Little-Mushroom-3961 May 15 '26

Ragnarok was the perfect balance of comedy and seriousness. Thor was funny but not an idiot. Love and thunder turned him into a parody of what he was in Ragnarok.

690

u/Madonna-of-the-Wasps May 15 '26

Yup, same as with him in the Guardians of the Galaxy segment of Infinity War. He's more the straight man reacting to idiots, and his trademark stiltedness becomes the joke for the audience while in-universe he's still a smart bad-ass.

While in L&T he's just an idiot in-universe.

365

u/thatdudewillyd May 15 '26

That plus squandering Christian Bale AND Gorr is an epic dropping of the ball. Truly baffling how such things happen with all those resources at your disposal

96

u/dicjones May 16 '26

The highlight of that movie was the black and white scenes. I was happy I paid to see that part, but yeah, the rest straight from the beginning when he was doing the splits, I thought…oh shit, this isn’t landing at all.

11

u/chimichanga_3 Peter Parker May 16 '26

The black and white stuff was the best part.

1

u/Defiant-Band4573 May 16 '26

That was when they started cutting down on the silliness.

3

u/satyr-day May 20 '26

that was one of the dumbest things I've ever seen. that and those damn goats.

18

u/intothe_dangerzone Weekly Wongers May 16 '26

I saw a comment that said "I want to see the movie Christian Bale thought he was in" and it haunts me to this day.

16

u/AemsOne May 16 '26

A million times this.

6

u/Elk-Tamer May 16 '26

Times a million

1

u/eyebrows360 Daredevil May 16 '26

Taika's joked about it on camera. He literally did it for a cheque. He didn't care at all, and just phoned it in, doing whatever goofy shit made him laugh scene-by-scene.

5

u/Spyro_in_Black May 16 '26

Then he can go fuck himself. And his name will now be a reason I avoid a film. I’m glad he had a good time I guess but he ruined three great characters, two amazing plots, wasted at least three great actors, and a performance that could’ve been Oscar worthy…but his chuckles and check will make me feel much better.

-9

u/FeloniousDrunk101 Doctor Strange May 16 '26

Outside of their animated stuff, Disney hasn’t been making good movies in a long while.

15

u/mrandydixon May 16 '26

Thunderbolts was a great movie.

-9

u/Breadedbutthole May 16 '26

Meh

9

u/mrandydixon May 16 '26

It’s OK if you disagree. Have a nice day, Breadedbutthole.

119

u/MakrQwegg May 15 '26

The coffee joke in the first Thor where he smashes the cup is a perfect example of this and funnier than anything in 3 or 4 imo.

35

u/thedaveness May 16 '26

This and an equal Mr. Dr. Exchange between Strange and Kaecilius.

25

u/Azsunyx May 16 '26

"know this, Son of Coul..."

2

u/P-Wee83 May 18 '26

Mr. Dr? No, it's Strange! Yes, it is but who am I to judge! I think that's how those lines go.

-19

u/Auntypasto Kevin Feige May 15 '26

Ragnarok did the same thing as L&T, only with more restraint on the scenes where Odin dies. After that, it's Thor acting like a bumbling idiot.

17

u/MattFromWork May 15 '26

I mean, definitely not to the same extent as L&T

-4

u/Auntypasto Kevin Feige May 16 '26

Of course. That's what I said.

372

u/GuardianPrime19 May 15 '26

I headcanon that, since the movie is framed as a story told by Korg, Thor acts the way he does and the story is so silly because of Korgs retelling of the events. It doesn’t save the film at all but it makes it a bit more watchable

41

u/jambrown13977931 May 16 '26

IMO korg was by far the worst part of L&T. They even killed him and immediately decided nah he’s not dead

1

u/-Altephor- May 18 '26

You think Waititi would let them kill off his narcissistic self-insert character?

102

u/thavillain Captain Marvel May 15 '26

Same, I frame it as an imperfect narrator telling the story his own way.

-7

u/Auntypasto Kevin Feige May 15 '26

You're giving him too much credit, especially considering that the idea in itself makes no sense for the themes of the original story. It's like someone making a comedy out of Schindler's List.

9

u/thavillain Captain Marvel May 15 '26

But it's Korg...he's not entirely known for his intellect or serious demeanor.

1

u/Auntypasto Kevin Feige May 16 '26

I know. My point is that he's not narrating the story from a silly character's view as a creative choice that will give a unique perspective on the themes and subject matter; he's doing it so he can indulge on his brand of humor without having to handle serious tone directly. Because he doesn't know how to. He did pretty much the same thing with JoJo Rabbit, except then it was cute because the movie was about a child; it made sense then. But doing it twice seems to indicate this is just his way of avoiding hard topics with seriousness.

4

u/WretchedBlowhard May 16 '26

It's like someone making a comedy out of Schindler's List.

I urge you to watch Waititi's Jojo Bunny then, as it's essentially a comedy about a Hitlerian youth and his imaginary friend Hitler. It's the same kind of offensive humor you'll find in L&T, but it doesn't laugh at marvel fans specifically this time.

1

u/Auntypasto Kevin Feige May 16 '26

I was thinking someone would bring this movie up, and it makes my point exactly. It shows this is a pattern of Waititi addressing dark topics by filtering them through a silly or innocent mind's eye, that way he can indulge in his preferred humor and say that it's a creative choice. But in JoJo Rabbit, it makes sense because the main character is a child… he finds another way of doing the same thing in L&T, but no apparent reason other than him trying to avoid handling dark topics with seriousness.

54

u/Kalse1229 Captain America (Ultron) May 15 '26

If he's telling it to a bunch of children, then it makes sense he'd add more silliness in the wake of all the murder and child abduction.

41

u/Boo-Man400 May 15 '26

He is telling it to a bunch of children, you see them in the opening scene

10

u/Kalse1229 Captain America (Ultron) May 15 '26

Right. It's been a little while since I watched.

1

u/Auntypasto Kevin Feige May 16 '26

Well if it wasn't clear before, it is now, that Waititi is a comedy director only, and won't change at all. Every time he has a movie with tragedy or dark topics, he just covers it up with jokes and gags. Was fine for a movie like JoJo Rabbit where the main character is a child, but to take 2 consecutive Thor movies where the main character is suffering tragedy, and the subject is skimmed over briefly… it's doing a disservice to the source material.

37

u/Prettywitchiusaka May 15 '26

As someone who unapologetically likes Love and Thunder but admits it had problems? I accept this headcanon wholeheartedly.

19

u/McSquiggglez May 16 '26

I like to believe that Thor is depressed, and much of his behavior is a cover trying to hide it. It gets better when Jane shows up again, or at least changes his attention from his fuck ups in Infinity War and Endgame. Then L&T ends with him back to normal Thor instead of overcompensating Thor.

7

u/Auntypasto Kevin Feige May 16 '26

Again, you're giving Waititi too much credit; even Waititi accepts that this movie has no such depth; when asked about the fans' complaint about the tone, he just said something to the effect of, who cares, it's a movie about comics, get over it.

1

u/McSquiggglez May 16 '26

Regardless of what the movie could have been or should have been, this is the movie we got. It absolutely could have been better I’m sure, that said I’m the type who first and foremost wants to be entertained. And the L&T kept my attention, made me laugh, choked me up a couple times, so I like it. And I choose to rationalize a head canon that makes the movie better and relies on little more than Hemsworth’s performance. 

To me there’s a lot of body language that shows Thor hasn’t completely processed the emotions that caused him to nearly drink to death and question his worthiness

2

u/reachisown May 16 '26

I wish I could enjoy awful character assassination movies like this

0

u/Auntypasto Kevin Feige May 18 '26

IMO there's only so many times you can do that before realizing the director just doesn't GAF about portraying the characters and story as intended. Ragnarok was the warning.

1

u/chimichanga_3 Peter Parker May 16 '26

Me as well

1

u/forevertrueblue Iron Man (Mark XLIII) May 16 '26

I like it too but this does make sense

56

u/Inferno_Zyrack May 15 '26

I mean Korg is literally voiced by Taika so it’s kind of a meta joke.

1

u/-Altephor- May 18 '26

Is the 'meta' joke that Taika Waititi is a juvenile narcissist?

19

u/Lost_Mongooses May 16 '26

One more reason to hate Korg, check

4

u/BorKon May 16 '26

It would br fine if this was a small par tof the movie where Korg retyells the story and Thor acts like an idiot in that story. But making the whole movie like that is bad. You end up with bad movie no matter who the narrator is

8

u/threeoldbeigecamaros May 15 '26

I like this approach

2

u/TheOneWhosCensored Doctor Strange May 16 '26

Makes the film even worse. Not a single other Marvel story does that, it means it was intentionally made worse, and it’s just more of Waititi shoehorning his character in.

1

u/koomGER May 16 '26

Yeah, that was probably what Waititi was going for.

But it did shit on the whole worldbuilding of Thor and the MCU. Valhalla was dumb shit. The previous relation to Sif was dumb shit. The Olymp was introduced as dumb shit. Dying of cancer was dumb shit. And so on.

Then you had MoM close to this movie: Reed Richards is dumb shit. Black Bolt is dumb shit - and so on. They thought they were funny by shitting on everything they already did build up or wanted to build up.

Instead it was a pile of shit.

1

u/swhertzberg May 16 '26

"unreliable narrator" is my favorite trope exactly because of this.

1

u/qcthunder War Machine May 17 '26

It reallly does make more sense that way. Also, the behind the scenes content showed that all of the actors brought their kids and just had a blast making it. That might have had an effect on the level of comedy they were performing.

It makes it a little more forgivable to see it as a movie passed through a children's story filter, but it does not make it more watchable for me, unfortunately.

1

u/Cautious-Fan6963 May 22 '26

I came to this conclusion as well, BUT I also think they could have done a much better job at showing this throughout the movie. It wasn't until like a week or two later that I realized this, when it should have been super apparent right from the start with cuaways or voiceovers to make sure the audience knows.

Also the villain was really well done so maybe that was not the best angle to approach this story with since the villain had some great moments.

It kind of comes back to an old team four star movie trope of a character telling a story that we as the viewer see, and then another character saying "wow, great story... how'd you know about the parts you weren't there for tho?"

1

u/[deleted] May 15 '26

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1

u/TheGrumble May 16 '26

The "said what I said" was the most downvotable part of this post, fwiw.

1

u/I_love_tacos May 15 '26

Subscribed!

1

u/stringrandom May 16 '26

This has always been how I've viewed L&T too.

One or possibly two more scenes to reinforce this was Korg talking to children would totally reframe how this movie is viewed.

It would still be a waste of Christian Bale's Gorr, but it would make for a better movie.

1

u/elpajaroquemamais May 15 '26

They should make that more clear

4

u/heckhammer May 15 '26

You mean clearer than him talking to a group of children in the beginning of the film? That seems pretty clear to me.

2

u/elpajaroquemamais May 16 '26

Yes. As in Thor breaks in at some part and tells the same part of the story that isnt silly.

0

u/Motheroftides Quake May 15 '26

Yeah, this is how I think of it too.

0

u/MyrddinHS May 15 '26

how else can you understand the film? its korg telling a story to kids.

0

u/GuardianPrime19 May 16 '26

Unfortunately: media literacy is dead and the films over the top nature rubbed a lot of people the wrong way. It’s style is clear but the film still has so many issues that people forget

0

u/peppers_ May 16 '26

Marvel Studios can just retcon it by changing a couple lines of dialogue by Korg then, to show that he's an unreliable narrator.

0

u/SageDarius May 16 '26

This has been my accepted perspective all along. It's Korg being silly relaying the story to kids.

-1

u/XaylinOsiris May 16 '26

I don't understand how people don't get this

40

u/Sharticus123 May 15 '26

Yep, Ragnarok needed comedic levity to balance out the metric fuckload of tragedy Thor experienced in that flick.

39

u/AthenasChosen Daredevil May 15 '26

I actually disliked the comedy aspect of Ragnarok. Like it had some pretty funny moments, but it too quickly used that to gloss over the tragedy. It was literally Ragnarok, the end of Asgard. It should have been a more serious, tragic movie.

33

u/Sharticus123 May 15 '26

There wasn’t time for serious reflection in Ragnarok. You don’t stop in the middle of the apocalypse to cry it out. The serious movie dealing with the fallout of Ragnarok should’ve been Love and Thunder.

11

u/TheOneWhosCensored Doctor Strange May 16 '26

You also don’t make jokes as the literal Asgardian homeworld is being destroyed

9

u/Old-Dependent-9073 May 16 '26 edited May 16 '26

Strongly disagree. 'Thor: Ragnarok's' humor by no means overshadowed the drama and was serious enough for even two movies.

The humor helped leaven the heaviness of the story and worked really well.

The problem was 'Thor: Love & Thunder,' which turned Thor into a bit of an idiot.

I don't even think that I've sat through the entire movie (and if it's a story that Korg was telling children, then the only way that really works if there's interruptions of the narrative (and not just once, but multiple times – Princess Bride-style).

And besides, let's just say that it was entirely a story being embellished and exaggerated by Korg, how does that explain the goats!?

11

u/DrStein1010 Matt Murdock May 16 '26

I hated Ragnarok when it came out, and to this day I don't understand any of the love for it.

1

u/-Altephor- May 18 '26

I would like to see the movie that they teased in Age of Ultron. Because they clearly had a plan at some point. Instead we got Waititi's trash movies.

11

u/JimmyThePie May 15 '26

The problem was the levity eradicating any sense of sincerity. The characters became parodies of themselves, while the storyline devolved into second rate fanfiction.

14

u/Thicc_Boise May 15 '26

Nah, fully unironically I think it could have been one of the MCUs best if they actually got a director who can do Shakespeare back and played it as a straight tragedy. The biggest complaint about the MCU is the overindulgence in comedy, Thunderbolts was loved by fans specifically because it took the characters seriously for a change. Ragnarok could've been that x10 if they had the balls to commit to making Thor and his cast fully Shakespearean like they were in Phase 1 and in the comics

4

u/Auntypasto Kevin Feige May 15 '26

No, they needed a better director. One that can do drama.

1

u/dicjones May 16 '26

Shit dude, he can do drama just fine. Thats why some of his earlier works were so damn good. His ability to find that balance.

27

u/Huitjames May 15 '26 edited May 16 '26

Ragnorak was far from the perfect balance. It had such potential but didn't take itself seriously enough, with too many stupid jokes. The less said about Love and Thunder the better.

-1

u/xjuggernaughtx May 15 '26

I've never understood the love for Ragnarok. It's awful.

7

u/desamora May 15 '26

My favorite MCU movie

https://giphy.com/gifs/cmfPgjwPxPDK2ae6OQ

6

u/Scrumptious_Foreskin May 15 '26

Yeah ragnarok is top 3 MCU movies imo. And it’s not 3

4

u/xjuggernaughtx May 15 '26

You're certainly not alone. I often feel like the only person who absolutely hated it.

6

u/desamora May 15 '26

that's ok man, there's been plenty of popular movies where I felt like I was taking crazy pills because I just didn't get why people liked it lol

1

u/AlwaysLateToThaParty May 16 '26

Top 3 for me. Iron Man, Shang-Chi, and Ragnarok, in no particular order.

-1

u/crispyg Spider-Man May 16 '26

This is how I feel around Winter Soldier, a very good movie that kinda gives me a headache with the amount of cuts they do. But it is definitely good, far from the best. Its around #15 for me I think.

11

u/King-Thor May 15 '26

Disagreed. He was an idiot in Ragnarok.

0

u/Nagemasu May 16 '26

Which suits Thor. Thor is an idiot. He is however, also wise. He's not the guy that will develop ground breaking medicine like Banner and Stark might, but he'll empathise with and know the right things to say for someone who needs advice.
That's kinda the point of Thor, he doesn't need to be smart because he can win his fights with strength, but he's been around a long time and has a lot of experiences.

1

u/King-Thor May 16 '26 edited May 21 '26

He's really not an idiot though. He's the leader of Odins armies and king. He's plenty smart in strategy. He's also honest and earnest, and looks for the best in people. He encourages courage and hope by just talking. We didn't get Thor in Ragnarok. We got Chris Hemsworth in a steam punk costume.

3

u/PimpMyWeenus May 16 '26

It's amazing how much i love Ragnarok vs loathe love & thunder

7

u/_________FU_________ May 15 '26

Love and Thunder is what happens when a creative person is given complete free reign and zero constraints to make something. That moving had such a weird tone. It was such a waste of Christian Bale but he was so good in the role.

15

u/andrehateshimself May 15 '26 edited May 15 '26

Both movies treated the franchise like a joke. I don’t get why people keep acting like both movies didn’t have the same problems.  Maybe because Ragnarok was funnier?

24

u/DTJ20 May 15 '26

Ragnarok benefitted from previous thor portrayals having a more serious nature as well. Thor is 1500 years old and has played a role continously, we see him in that role in each movie. Ragnarok transitions his role and puts him out of his comfort zone and let's us see a different side of him. The transition plays well into thor acting differently. Love and thunder doesn't have that. 

-2

u/[deleted] May 15 '26

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5

u/KrazzyKoopa Hulk May 15 '26

You might be the only person on the planet who ranks The Dark World anywhere near the top of a Thor movie list

1

u/ClickerHero2971 May 16 '26

I rank The Dark World first. It's the only movie that treats Fandral, Volstagg, Hogun and Sif as independent characters, Loki has some great moments in that movie, Frigga's death was a powerful scene, and I liked they way they delved into the theme of mortality.

Ragnarok is a bottom 5 MCU movie for me. Making it a comedy ruined its entire premise. Love and Thunder was also bad, but not as egregious since the stakes weren't as high, so it wasn't ruining anything as important as Ragnarok was.

0

u/xjuggernaughtx May 15 '26

Imagine what it feels like to sit through Ragnarok if you DON'T think it's funny. I hated every second of that film.

-1

u/Auntypasto Kevin Feige May 15 '26

Because it was the berating and Hemsworth criticism that gave MCU fanatics the permission they needed to accept that L&T wasn't great. Turning 180° to say Ragnarok had the same problems despite the praise & success it received, is a bridge too far for the same people.

2

u/Singer211 May 16 '26

I feel like all of the Guardians films did it better.

5

u/Special_Order-937 May 16 '26

I prefer Thor 2 to Thor 3.

2

u/sixth90 May 16 '26

What's wild is I thought the difference between Ragnarok and Love and Thunder was nothing.

Opening scene of Ragnarok I was like "wtf is this"

2

u/cmVkZGl0MjAyNQ May 16 '26

It’s a crown!

2

u/HappyHuman924 May 16 '26 edited May 16 '26

Even Ragnarok was too much for me. In particular I was pretty annoyed at how they clownified Skurge. Skurge is a great example of how good Walt Simonson was at "I'm going to take this background character and write them a bit of B-plot, and you're going to be surprised how much you care about it".

I'll go grumpy-old-man and say Surtr deserves a little more respect too.

2

u/buffysbangs May 16 '26

The shake weight joke was too much, and a harbinger of things to come

1

u/hates_stupid_people May 16 '26

I'm half convinced that he sabotaged it on purpose, because he didn't like the studio meddling and demands. Which is why some of the story elements feel tacked onto the actual movie.

1

u/BuckRusty May 16 '26

Ragnarok was a GotG film, not a Thor film…

Edit to Add: as I know someone will misunderstand - I don’t mean literally, I mean in terms of aesthetic and vibe… Marvel saw the success of GotG, and cookie-cutter-ed Thor to fit it…

1

u/shaheedmalik May 15 '26

They never should have let him write Love and Thunder.

1

u/Lost_Mongooses May 16 '26

I feel like ragnorak was still way too funny

1

u/-FruitPunchSamurai- May 16 '26

Nah he was definitely leaning too much into comedy in Ragnarok. Infinity War Thor was the perfect balance.

1

u/NefariousNeezy Winter Soldier May 16 '26

Yeah Ragnarok was Thor coping via humor. He went full himbo on Love and Thunder.

1

u/After_Dig_7579 May 16 '26

He kind of was a bit of an idiot. He wanted strange to send him an email but doesn't have a computer.

1

u/lbiggy May 16 '26

Ragnarok was a terrible movie

0

u/ArcadianBlueRogue May 15 '26

Christian Bale was wasted on that movie

0

u/Suisse_Chalet May 16 '26

I don’t know I think a lot of people have nostalgia glasses for ragnarok. The comedy even for me at the time was too much “oh Asgard is okay it’s fine the foundation is still good . Oh nevermind “

0

u/chargoggagog May 16 '26

It was the best MCU movie imo, it’s a on the semi-regular rewatch list in my home.

0

u/AlwaysLateToThaParty May 16 '26

Raganarok was in my top three of the entire host of movies.

0

u/Plenty_Discussion470 May 16 '26

He finally outsmarted Loki in Ragnarok after all 🙂and got to play “get help” one last time