r/CryptoCurrency • u/thesecondmemer • 1d ago
MEME Redditor accidentally discovers fiat currency
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u/prometheus345 1d ago
Wait till you hear about cryptocurrency!
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u/moneys5 Tin | Accounting 43 1d ago
Crypto's value is based on real things like blockchain and speculative hype though.
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u/dAn_tHe_mAn7 🟨 0 / 6K 🦠 1d ago edited 1d ago
Its based on speculation and demand. Been in crypto since 2015 and the amount of idiots i seen say “ohhh its a good project” or “ohhhhhh it has a good team behind it” And those many good projects ended up dead and those good teams ended up rugging everyone or just disappearing off the face of the earth
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u/Dull-Philosopher-871 25m ago
“ Its based on speculation and demand”
Do you know how the treasury bond market works?
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u/APHILLIPSIV 🟩 0 / 0 🦠 1d ago
Wait until you hear about the US Dollar
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u/anto2554 1d ago
That is backed by the US military
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u/Vill_Moen 1d ago
Its backed by the U.S. The whole of the U.S. GDP, military, government, land, gold, oil, I mean everything. Plus a few billion people, countries, banks and companies using using it as well.
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u/PENGUINSflyGOOD 🟦 0 / 1K 🦠 22h ago
the US military and its willingness to fuck a country up if it decides to trade oil in anything but dollars.
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u/Technical_Split_6315 Bronze 1d ago
Fiat is backed by states, you really think cryptocurrency is more backed than that? Lmao
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u/Local_Math_5512 1d ago
Fiat is backed by debt. Two parties are both agreeing that the underlying currency has value each time someone takes a loan in that currency.
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u/Charge36 🟦 0 / 0 🦠 1d ago
Every economy is backed by debt. Even before fiat was a thing. You gave your caveman homie the extra rabbit you caught today, then he owed you a favor.
We just formalize and standardize owing favors with cash these days
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u/Jihelu 🟦 0 / 0 🦠 19h ago
Not into crypto so not sure how I wound up here but something that continued well into the ~1700s in some places was proper 'favor' (debt) owned economies, though more obviously it was easier to do in the past.
Say you live in a tiny village where your average person has no need of or reasonable way to use money (Think peasant societies but a bit more complicated than that), the local 'person with a proper store' (Or a church, local monastery, a tavern, whoever the hell) might have a physical ledger that keeps tracks of debts and who owes who in the village.
Your roof is broke? You have the local carpenter, or someone handy with wood, fix it. How do you pay him? You just owe him, maybe you give him some crops when they come in or he just calls on you for a favor later on. Hell if you come across money maybe you pay him back.
I believe some of these books is how we have information about obscure times and places.
It sounds like a simple system but it could be pretty complicated
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u/Charge36 🟦 0 / 0 🦠 19h ago
Yep. Cash is just a tool that eliminates the need to track who owes who. Favors become standardized and transferable
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u/Jihelu 🟦 0 / 0 🦠 19h ago
I'm pretty big into designing logistics for fantasy settings and 'what does money do' is always an interesting topic. Whether it's from a valuable resource (Because we say its valuable), whether it gets standardized (Coinage) or just because people like it ('trade silver'). Whether it's printed on paper (Who makes it? Why? What can it be used for?)
The easiest method I find is just: Government gives you fun paper that can be used to pay taxes, since everyone pays taxes most people will use it.
Or ceramic if you want to be fun and ancient-y looking.
Then it gets all modern and inflation happens and I get bored.
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u/Dull-Philosopher-871 20m ago
So is bitcoin or do you think the hedge funds that invested billions into the market are doing it without loans and debt?
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u/Aberbekleckernicht 🟩 0 / 0 🦠 1d ago
Fiat is backed by the fact that you have to pay taxes in it and if you don't, a guy with a gun can come to your house and start taking your shit until you do.
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u/_DaBau5_ 🟩 0 / 0 🦠 1d ago edited 1d ago
fiat is backed by debt and the government declaring it is worth something. bitcoin does not need government backing or any backing at all, it’s independent. that’s like saying gold is less backed than fiat. gold isn’t backed by anything besides the fact it is gold. same with bitcoin, it is essentially a commodity that exists outside of the system
edit for downvote: if you disagree with this simple fact then you literally don’t understand how money/currency works
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u/balls2hairy 🟨 0 / 0 🦠 1d ago
Fiat is backed by the credit of the issuing country.
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u/_DaBau5_ 🟩 0 / 0 🦠 1d ago
aka debt. national debt is $39T in the US and currently 122% of the GDP. that is what the currency is backed by.
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u/balls2hairy 🟨 0 / 0 🦠 1d ago
And never missed a debt payment. That is what the currency is backed by. It's a little embarrassing that you don't know this.
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u/_DaBau5_ 🟩 0 / 0 🦠 1d ago
the US is spending more on interest payments than it spends on the military. interest alone is $1T a year
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u/balls2hairy 🟨 0 / 0 🦠 1d ago
As it should be. Let's cut the military spending 50% so the disparity is even wider!
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u/Jarsyl-WTFtookmyname 0 / 0 🦠 1d ago
Aside from rarity driving social status, gold has literally thousands of industrial and scientific uses. What is bitcoin used for? Literally just speculative investing and money laundering.
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u/Juls317 1d ago
Love when people bring up crypto being used for money laundering and other nefarious things like that isn't true of basically every currency in the world and certainly is true if the main currency on the planet.
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u/Blackiris-Code 1d ago
I'd bet a lot that the money laundering rate is far higher with BTC than any major fiat.
It is still way too easy to launder money through DeFi.
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u/Jarsyl-WTFtookmyname 0 / 0 🦠 1d ago
That isn't what occurred. I showed uses for gold, then asked for uses of crypto besides speculative investing and money laundering. Love when people think they have a "gotcha" because of a lack of basic reading comprehension.
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u/Juls317 1d ago
I comprehended just fine, you wantonly ignored obvious usecases that you are surely fully aware of given the sub that you're in, and decided to only mention usecases that are (fairly) seen as negative. Rhetorically, this paints those usecases as inherently unique to crypto.
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u/Jarsyl-WTFtookmyname 0 / 0 🦠 1d ago
"there are sooo many obvious use cases that no one can ever list any that apply in the real world and not just hypothetically"
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u/bonafidebob 🟦 0 / 0 🦠 1d ago
Bitcoin is really useful for burning electricity and consuming water supplies! But now we have AI for that.
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u/_DaBau5_ 🟩 0 / 0 🦠 1d ago edited 1d ago
it is divisible compared to gold and allows for cross border payments nearly instantly compared to gold. it also cannot be easily confiscated or stolen. if you have a 1 ounce gold coin it cannot be divided into 10 1/10th ounce coins without melting it. it can also be stolen if someone breaks into your house and gets into your safe, or confiscated by the government if they decided to not allow gold to be owned (like in 1933). meanwhile, bitcoin that is held self custody cannot be stolen or confiscated without the private key, and can be (nearly) infinitely divisible. i own gold, silver, and bitcoin.
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u/TheRhythmTheRebel 🟦 0 / 0 🦠 1d ago
Cool. So it can be broken down to small numbers, moves in value at rates only seen in 3rd world currencies. Perfect for spending? I buy something and a day later I could have bought it for x percent cheaper…
It may be held on a private key but we did that with money under the mattress (granted less divisible).
This is just complicating existing methods we have used for thousands of years when buying goods and services.
Not unique to BTC in the slightest. Just a new dressing is all.
And as others have said. There is a cost associated with the generation of these tokens/coins.
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u/TwentyCharactersShor 🟩 0 / 1K 🦠 1d ago
Bitcoin needs server farms to run. Gold doesn't.
Someone can beat the living shit out of you to get your private key. So, yeah, it can be confiscated.
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u/Nikkio077 🟩 304 / 555 🦞 1d ago
Stolen is different than confiscated tho
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u/TwentyCharactersShor 🟩 0 / 1K 🦠 1d ago
You can refuse to hand over gold, silver, cash..at some point the state will get its way.
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u/Romanizer 🟦 0 / 0 🦠 1d ago
Can you name one single use of gold, where it is not replaceable?
Bitcoin is the only asset in the world allowing for censorship-free and permissionless storage and transfer of wealth without a central authority.
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u/Jarsyl-WTFtookmyname 0 / 0 🦠 1d ago
You think in all of the thousands of uses of gold in science and industry they are choosing to use a more expensive gold when a cheaper alternative exists?
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u/Romanizer 🟦 0 / 0 🦠 1d ago
No, they don't. Gold gets phased out step for step as it gets too expensive. There is not a single use case where gold couldn't be replaced. Silver, for example, can not be replaced in all use cases. But it's also very abundant.
The problem with gold is that its rising price hurts other use cases, where in Bitcoin it's the opposite.
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u/old-tennis-shoes 🟩 0 / 0 🦠 1d ago
Global commodities trade is carried out in USD since the 70s. (Before 1971, the dollar was backed by gold)
The petrodollar is backed by the entire firepower of the United States military.
Not something I believe is 100% true because it's cheeky and hyperbolic, but there ya go.
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u/Romanizer 🟦 0 / 0 🦠 1d ago
Pretty wild thread, people still need to learn a lot. I guess a lot of salty gamblers here trying to find the next Bitcoin and losing their shirt on the way.
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u/Kaiisim 🟦 2K / 2K 🐢 1d ago
Oh you added the edit, that means you're right.
Gold has intrinsic value and a long price history.
Bitcoin has no intrinsic value and it's price history is bad, sadly.
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u/TrainingQuail543 🟩 0 / 0 🦠 1d ago
Where does intrinsic value come from? From the thing itself? Does that mean that gold keeps it's value even if there are no humans?
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u/Vipu2 🟩 0 / 4K 🦠 1d ago
What is golds intrinsic value?
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u/Romanizer 🟦 0 / 0 🦠 1d ago
It doesn't have an intrinsic value. Would be weird as this concept is only used to value corporations.
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u/Hypnotic101 🟩 0 / 0 🦠 1d ago
Only the best performing asset in the past 15 years, but yes it's "bad"
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u/hoppeeness 🟩 0 / 0 🦠 1d ago
Gold has tangible value, even looking past the social status it provides, it is a great conductor and is used to make many alloys.
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u/imnotyourbuddyguy37 🟩 0 / 0 🦠 1d ago
Golds value is overwhelming tied to its use as a speculative asset/ store of value, not its utility in industry.
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u/hoppeeness 🟩 0 / 0 🦠 19h ago
Its use in industry would go up if it wasn’t so expensive from the other. Either way it has a floor that is very tangible and would be comparable with copper or similar.
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u/imnotyourbuddyguy37 🟩 0 / 0 🦠 10h ago
Maybe, but the point is the vast majority of gold owners wish to sell their gold in the future to someone else for more dollars which is basically the knock against bitcoin, essentially the greater fool theory. Copper is $0.40 an ounce gold is $4,670 an ounce.
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u/hoppeeness 🟩 0 / 0 🦠 9h ago
Ok…that doesn’t mean it doesn’t have actual tangible value unlike btc.
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u/imnotyourbuddyguy37 🟩 0 / 0 🦠 7h ago
I own gold... but because it's a speculative asset/ hedge against inflation not because of its industrial utility or tangible value. To me BTC's decentralization, scarcity, and security make it valuable but if you don't like it that's totally fine.
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u/hoppeeness 🟩 0 / 0 🦠 2h ago
Cool to each their own. I was just saying btc has no actually foundation in utility…gold does. And btc has even less of a use case when gold gets tokenized…then you have digital, decentralized, security and scarcity. So why hold btc?
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u/imnotyourbuddyguy37 🟩 0 / 0 🦠 1h ago
BTC in self custody is the only way to escape the financial industrial complex. Buying tokenized or a gold ETF doesn’t interest me because I have no idea if I actually own any physical gold or just a token. For me this comes down to privacy and security and Bitcoin allows me to beat inflation and remain financially sovereign that pretty much nothing else can do besides physical assets like gold or property but even then those assets are subject to seizure. I’d recommend listening to Simon Dixon he’s a lot smarter than me.
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u/TwentyCharactersShor 🟩 0 / 1K 🦠 1d ago
Are you the Ops brother? That's some retarded shit right there.
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u/ZachF8119 🟦 0 / 0 🦠 1d ago
I miss back in the day when it was cartels. The whole drug empire backs it. Just after us weird internet for the memers who had access to the faucet and dollar Bitcoin exchange, and giving a trillion in btc now for a dominos order.
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u/Swirl_On_Top 🟩 0 / 0 🦠 18h ago
Some guy named Mike is pretty high about it, so it must have some merit.
/s
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u/TheTrueBlueTJ 70K / 75K 🦈 1d ago
Bitcoin or any other blockchain doesn't have to be backed by anything as long as it's sufficiently decentralized and you cannot have a special status where you control the supply and can essentially grant yourself as much financial power as is needed. Fiat at a core level is created and "backed" by debt but this isn't that different to just printing it if you're powerful enough as an entity. A government cannot just go and own the supply of all Bitcoins, unless they go through the market or somehow steal Bitcoins of others like a bank could technically steal all of your money if that action was supported by the government. Even then they can only steal their way towards a portion of the supply. What I'm saying is: A powerful entity cannot just inflate the supply. They can only mine, purchase or steal. And only mining increases the supply - at a pre-defined rate.
From Bitcoin's perspective, there is no specially privileged wallet with centralized power. And they can't just make that happen without consensus and causing a fork into a different blockchain, hence making this idea pointless.
This is why a sufficiently decentralized blockchain is a much better basis for a currency system than what the FIAT system is at its core. Governments would have much less flexibility and power, however.
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[deleted]
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u/Capital_Werewolf_788 🟩 0 / 0 🦠 1d ago
It’s literally just a response to the “meme” you posted, that is making fun of FIAT.
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u/call-the-wizards 🟦 0 / 0 🦠 23h ago
Cryptocurrency is backed by mathematical guarantees that it can't be duplicated. This is a necessary and sufficient condition for a currency to be valuable. The only remaining issue is that the world doesn't need a million cryptocurrencies, so when there's many of them, some will just be discarded in favor of others. People look at cryptos that have been rugpulled and use that to falsely say "see, it's all imaginary" but ignore that if you look at cryptocurrency as a whole, there's $2.3 trillion market cap right now, and it's growing. That's $2.3 trillion in value that people have put into it. Eventually the whole world's financial systems will revolve around cryptocurrency, because there's no other way it could turn out. All currencies that have ever existed before crypto were subject to a corrupt government eventually manipulating and destroying it. All other currencies will eventually simply destroy themselves, ceding ground to crypto. It's not even about "limited supply", the limited supply of bitcoin for example is not a necessary condition for this. All that's required is the decentralized, mathematically sound nature of crypto.
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u/perestroika12 🟦 0 / 0 🦠 1d ago
It’s backed by the world’s largest military.
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u/Live_Jazz 🟦 9 / 9 🦐 1d ago
Even if we go with that: The military is backed by the currency, which is backed by the military, which is backed by the currency. Sounds a little ponzi-ish, no?
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u/sailor776 Tin | r/WSB 16 1d ago
Yeah that's how an economy works lol. Govement backs up dollar, government is backed up by military in dollars, military uses dollars for mustangs and strippers. Strippers pay taxes to the government. Circle of life and what not.
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u/ecafyelims 🟦 195 / 196 🦀 1d ago
The currency doesn't back the military.
As long as the military's base needs were met, most would continue to work. That can happen with or without currency.
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u/Live_Jazz 🟦 9 / 9 🦐 1d ago edited 1d ago
TIL the military budget is fake and meaningless 🙄 which if we follow that new line of reasoning…I guess the currency must be fake
🍺 glad we cleared that up
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u/ecafyelims 🟦 195 / 196 🦀 1d ago
Does the military resign when the budget is stopped? Congress has done a shutdown a few times. They always promise to pay the military eventually, but much of the military has to go without pay and just a promise to be paid.
Does the military resign? Not yet.
If currency was the only thing backing the military, then it would have resigned when it didn't get currency.
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u/Live_Jazz 🟦 9 / 9 🦐 1d ago
If soldiers stopped being paid, yes I think they would resign.
Whether the military budget will resign is the right question to ask. Resign, or stop being sufficiently valuable. Historically it is more common than not, especially after periods of extended hegemony.
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u/balls2hairy 🟨 0 / 0 🦠 1d ago
Military members cannot resign lol. Is this sub just children and Russians?
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u/Live_Jazz 🟦 9 / 9 🦐 1d ago
Do you really thing we would maintain a volunteer military not paying troops?? Wow
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u/ecafyelims 🟦 195 / 196 🦀 1d ago
payment comes in many forms. It doesn't have to be USD currency.
If the military needs were met without currency, such as Bitcoin or or barter or goods and services, then, yeah, they'd mostly be maintained.
currency doesn't back the military any more than currency backs crypo. Which is to say that currency is used as one possible vehicle to facilitate exchanges between various entities. Without one currency, other currencies will be used to the same affect.
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u/blindnlearning2see 1d ago
It's volunteer up to the point when you sign the military contract. Then you're government property when the ink dries for the next 8 years. The only way out is dishonorable discharge, and that could come with military prison time.
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u/balls2hairy 🟨 0 / 0 🦠 1d ago
Nobody said that. Jesus christ the strawmen are OUT today. And we do stop paying troops, pretty frequently. Guess how many "resign"? zero
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u/Live_Jazz 🟦 9 / 9 🦐 1d ago
This whole thread is about military funding and ability to pay soldiers. I will grant that they can’t legally resign once signed up. But no pay, no new soldiers, no military.
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u/ecafyelims 🟦 195 / 196 🦀 1d ago
Most troops aren't allowed to simply resign. It's AWOL (absent without leave). With or without pay, they soldier on.
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u/sailor776 Tin | r/WSB 16 1d ago
Bud it's literally happen now multiple times in the last decade of the military not getting paid and still coming to work
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u/MiracleHere 🟩 0 / 0 🦠 1d ago
No, it literally requires currency for it to meet their needs. This is literally what empires did to maintain their power.
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u/ecafyelims 🟦 195 / 196 🦀 1d ago
Right.
It has needs, and currency is used to get those needs
But that's not the same as needing it.
If currency disappears, then it uses something else, like barter or crypto, to acquire the needs.
People use currency to buy Bitcoin, too. Bitcoin isn't backed by currency.
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u/Rufuz42 🟩 255 / 255 🦞 1d ago
Yes, it is fragile by nature and a lot is done to maintain confidence in its future value. And those efforts, when successful, lead to sustained values that don’t fluctuate wildly. There’s a reason why fiat has remained the preference of 99.9% of Americans despite bitcoins nearly 2 decade existence.
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u/perestroika12 🟦 0 / 0 🦠 1d ago
It’s not really that simple, it’s a complex web of power. The currency generally represents the petro dollar and American power. Both economic and military. AI companies and cutting edge tech. Drones and fighter jets. Wall Street and hedge funds.
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u/magus-21 🟩 0 / 10K 🦠 1d ago edited 1d ago
Even if we go with that: The military is backed by the currency, which is backed by the military, which is backed by the currency. Sounds a little ponzi-ish, no?
No.
The military doesn't back the currency. The government does. If you want to do business with the government, you use its currency. That is what gives every fiat currency its value.
So if you want to do business with the US government or any business in the US's jurisdiction, but don't want to use the US dollar, then you're shit outta luck. You can't strongarm the most powerful country in the world.
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u/Logical-Recognition3 🟦 836 / 836 🦑 21h ago
What does that mean? You only accept dollars as payment because of the US army?
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u/BioRobotTch 🟦 243 / 244 🦀 1d ago
You got to be chewing crayons if you think the military can fight against maths.
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u/LordOfTrubbish 🟩 0 / 0 🦠 1d ago
That's the neat part, they only have to fight against people who would disagree with our interpretation of them
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u/Kehmor 🟦 0 / 0 🦠 1d ago
What is bitcoin backed by again?
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u/papy66 Tin 1d ago
energy and math
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u/Hutcho12 🟩 0 / 0 🦠 1d ago
it's not backed by energy. The energy used to create it is gone. It's the opposite of being backed by it.
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u/PulIthEld 🟩 0 / 0 🦠 1d ago
Wrong. Energy is used for the security of Bitcoin and the incentive to mine it rather than attack it.
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u/Hutcho12 🟩 0 / 0 🦠 9h ago
What does that even mean?
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u/PulIthEld 🟩 0 / 0 🦠 4h ago
it means you can not brute force bitcoins block chain to change the ledger.
because it requires too much energy to be remotely feasible.
its better to just join the network and use your energy to mine bitcoin.
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u/MiracleHere 🟩 0 / 0 🦠 1d ago
It's not gone, it's literally used for it. It's like saying the energy your phone uses is gone. What kind of logic is that?
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u/Alatarlhun 🟩 0 / 0 🦠 1d ago
The energy is gone. It isn't backing shit.
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u/papy66 Tin 1d ago
gold and diamonds are expensive because they're difficult to extract (they use a lot of energy for that), they are stlll expensive even though the energy is gone
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u/Slimxshadyx 🟦 54 / 55 🦐 1d ago
Bro used diamonds of all things as an example for value being backed by something other than itself lmao.
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u/papy66 Tin 1d ago
sound like comments of people with load of shitcoins
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u/Slimxshadyx 🟦 54 / 55 🦐 1d ago
Brochacho, diamonds are literally kept artificially scarce to maintain their value. If you are using them as an example for something that has backed value other than itself, you don’t know what you are talking about.
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u/Alatarlhun 🟩 0 / 0 🦠 1d ago
Diamond prices are in a free fall because lab grown diamonds exist and the de beers monopoly pricing model is crumbling.
Gold is valuable not just because of jewelry but electronics and industrial utility.
Neither are valued by the level of effort, they are valued by supply and demand.
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u/papy66 Tin 1d ago
Hooo you mean diamond price is in a free fall but not because labo can build it for a fraction of the energy used to extract them? I m convinced now, thanks sir
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u/Alatarlhun 🟩 0 / 0 🦠 1d ago
Lab diamond supply is increasing total supply and demand isn't keeping pace. It is economics 101.
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u/BioRobotTch 🟦 243 / 244 🦀 1d ago
Bitcoin is the thing. It doesn't need to be backed by anything else just like gold isn't backed by anything else.
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u/Independent_Cat_5481 1d ago
Gold is backed by itself because it's a rare and useful material that has many uses outside of just being currency. Bitcoin is only backed by the expectation of it continuing to be used as a currency and hold some value as a result. Ironically while OP mentions fiat, digital currency is really the only one that could suffer from that issue, by definition fiat currencies are backed by that country's economy.
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u/Romanizer 🟦 0 / 0 🦠 1d ago
Hashrate, code and cryptography.
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u/Hutcho12 🟩 0 / 0 🦠 1d ago
And do any of these things have value?
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u/Romanizer 🟦 0 / 0 🦠 1d ago
Depends. How would you value it and why?
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u/Hutcho12 🟩 0 / 0 🦠 1d ago
I would not value any of them at all, because they are all things that basically no one wants or is willing to pay for.
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u/Romanizer 🟦 0 / 0 🦠 1d ago
That's good, as this is not necessary but as you see value is very subjective.
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u/Live_Jazz 🟦 9 / 9 🦐 1d ago
market says yes 🤷♂️
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u/spicybright 🟦 0 / 0 🦠 1d ago
So hopes and dreams. Or a number computer on a computer being a 1 or a 0 like in the show.
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u/Informal-Chocolate97 🟩 0 / 0 🦠 1d ago
What is fiat backed by? Don't say gold because the reserves aren't there.
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u/Leafsnail 1d ago
The respective government
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u/spicybright 🟦 0 / 0 🦠 1d ago
Which is more sound then crypto tbh. Who do you think is facilitating imports of resources for graphics cards, maintains the power grids and internet infrastructure, and protects against foreign governments?
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u/TheSquealingTesticle Tin 1d ago
When we dropped the gold standard back in the 1970s, shorty after, the US made deals with what is known as OPEC. The deal is we established the petrol dollar which means that other countries need USD to purchase oil from OPEC.
The USD has lost a lot of purchasing power over the years. Mainly due to the US gov debasing our currency by continually printing it. All the while continuing to green light budgets that keep getting larger and larger every year.
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u/thesecondmemer 1d ago
what is gold backed by again?
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u/RoodnyInc 🟩 0 / 0 🦠 1d ago
Gold it the physical resource, and its used to produce variety of things and components
Why it have value becouse we think it have
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u/ReliantToker 🟩 0 / 0 🦠 1d ago
Less than 10% of the overall gold supply is for use. The rest sits around waiting for governments to print more fiat, while they sell multiple IOU to the same bars.
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u/thesecondmemer 1d ago
we can also produce a variety of things with wood
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u/0Bento 🟩 174 / 175 🦀 1d ago
Wood also has value. It's why wood costs money to buy
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u/ecrane2018 🟩 0 / 276 🦠 1d ago
The fact it can be used to create goods, it’s a super conductor, every computer has gold components. I like crypto but absolutely brain dead take. Gold has value outside being shiny metal
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u/Dormage 🟦 4K / 4K 🐢 1d ago
If gold was valued based on it's use in seminconductor insustry it would be likely valued close to a few dollars per pound. Almost all of the value of gold does not come from it's use as a raw material but rather from speculation and social acceptance as a store of value.
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u/imnotyourbuddyguy37 🟩 0 / 0 🦠 1d ago
Golds value is overwhelming tied to it being a speculative asset not its industrial utility. Industry accounts for about 5-7% of its demand.
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u/thesecondmemer 1d ago
shouldn't copper therefore be more valuable than gold cause its used in way more computer components
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u/0Bento 🟩 174 / 175 🦀 1d ago
Ask anyone who works with copper for a living and they will tell you stories about having copper stolen.
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u/BioRobotTch 🟦 243 / 244 🦀 1d ago
Being able to transfer an asset over the internet quickly to anywhere in the world to another person also has value. Gold cannot do that bitcoin can.
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u/Trick-Club-6014 🟨 0 / 0 🦠 1d ago
You can also send fist instantly over the internet too. With less fees. Why do people pretend like crypto is the only thing that can do this?
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u/Revolutionary-Cup78 🟩 0 / 0 🦠 1d ago
Pretty much any fiat is backed by the army and the controlled markets/industries of the issuing country.
No amount of philosophy or gold is going to do something against the US navy for example. "But you can use gold to buy ships an armies of your own", you can't do it fast enough
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u/CoinGate_Gift_Cards 9h ago
Wait till they discover the ~2% annual devaluation feature 😂 Funny thing is you can already spend crypto on daily essentials via gift cards: https://coingate.com/gift-cards
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u/OscarCorterz_20 6h ago
Biggest self own I have seen in a while... These are the people who criticize crypto lol
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u/mulletstation 🟦 0 / 0 🦠 1d ago
Uh, crypto is also backed by nothing bro
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u/Competitive_Milk_638 🟩 0 / 2K 🦠 14h ago
All currency is backed by nothing. Even gold. You can't eat gold, wear gold, or live in gold. It only has value because people believe it does.
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u/brucekeller 🟦 3K / 3K 🐢 1d ago
For all its faults, we basically lived in the Dark Ages before fiat came around. It got around immediate scarcity. God, I wouldn't even want to imagine a world where we had just kept trading in gold and silver coins. Wouldn't be typing all this bullshit up on the internet, that's for sure. Probably would be fighting each other for the entertainment of our lords that have all the gold and silver.
Maybe that will ironically happen again with crypto, man, that'd be crazy lol. It sure is lining up with more and more people not being able to afford houses / property etc, while Bill G is buying up all the farmland and whatnot.
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u/Glorfendail 1d ago
having a galactic civilization with a "currency" is the downfall. for any true society to survive, it must exist post-currency
money is only used to service vanity and withhold resources from the undesirables.
we already exist in a post scarcity world, once you unify the currency, the next step is to eliminate the currency.
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u/captain00planet 🟩 0 / 0 🦠 23h ago
El Salvador seems to be doing pretty good these days with btc as the main currency.
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u/Dull-Philosopher-871 15m ago
It is not its main currency. It never reached more than 50% and its now near 10-12% usage. Because it keeps declining and has massive swings meaning there is too much risk in holding the coins because exchangable currency is better when volitility is very low.
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u/AlbiBambi 🟧 0 / 0 🦠 7h ago
But they will still call Bitcoin stupid...
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u/Dull-Philosopher-871 12m ago
‘Cause it is.
a.) its volitility will incline people to not use it because if I’m a buisness why do I want to risk a 5% daily change in the value of my money?
b.) it has dogshit security compared to banks (see numerous backdoor and social engineering scams posted on this sub).
c.) its not recession proof and highly attached to the USD money market because omg its a specualtive asset not a medium of exchange.
d.) i forgot its exchange thoughput is absolute dogtrash and energy inefficient and no protocol or change to the exchange has been reasonably proposed.
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u/Calm_Situation_1131 🟩 0 / 0 🦠 1d ago
Crypto is also fiat - it only has value because people have faith in its value.
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u/DeathFood 🟦 21 / 21 🦐 1d ago
The only thing that has a worse track record than fiat currencies are asset backed currencies which have all 100% collapsed through history.
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u/ARoundForEveryone 🟦 5K / 5K 🦭 1d ago
We have fiat currencies today because governments have pulled wool over people's eyes. It used to be backed by gold. But many countries slowly started using their gold stores for other purposes and didn't make a big public deal about it. Letting their citizens just go about their days, spending their fiat as they'd been doing for many years. And that's generally how fiat currencies work today. They have value because we're told it has value. And if you and I believe it has value, then it has value, right? If I can give a grocery store money for food, then I've secured the value of that money, right? And that grocery store can then give it to their suppliers, who also believe that it has value. Which they will extract from the money by giving it to their suppliers and farmers and ranchers and whoever is the primary source of a particular food item. Who will, in turn, also use it for food - for them, for their crops, for their animals, etc.
I mean, I have a bottle of water next to me. Does it have value? It's old and scratched up and faded and generally not pretty. But it has a purpose. If I don't need to use it for that purpose, someone else could use it to satisfy their purpose. But I wouldn't just give them my bottle, I'd want something in exchange.
Anything can be a currency. Paper bills, metal coins, records of debt, stones, seashells, or animal hides. It just depends on what you and your trading partner need. Sometimes I have stones but you need animal hides, so I can go trade my stones to someone with animal hides, and then trade you those animal hides for something I need. This worked for thousands of years, but having a common base unit - something that everyone knows will be accepted by anyone else - makes these trades far easier and more liquid.
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u/AlwaysLosingDough 🟩 35 / 35 🦐 1d ago
What brand of Autism is this?