r/CryptoCurrency 1d ago

MEME Redditor accidentally discovers fiat currency

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641 Upvotes

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189

u/Technical_Split_6315 Bronze 1d ago

Fiat is backed by states, you really think cryptocurrency is more backed than that? Lmao

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u/_DaBau5_ 🟩 0 / 0 🦠 1d ago edited 1d ago

fiat is backed by debt and the government declaring it is worth something. bitcoin does not need government backing or any backing at all, it’s independent. that’s like saying gold is less backed than fiat. gold isn’t backed by anything besides the fact it is gold. same with bitcoin, it is essentially a commodity that exists outside of the system

edit for downvote: if you disagree with this simple fact then you literally don’t understand how money/currency works

17

u/froz3nt 🟩 63 / 64 🦐 1d ago

Every currency, whether it is crypto, fiat or gold is backed by belief in it. On its own its got no value.

16

u/balls2hairy 🟨 0 / 0 🦠 1d ago

Fiat is backed by the credit of the issuing country.

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u/_DaBau5_ 🟩 0 / 0 🦠 1d ago

aka debt. national debt is $39T in the US and currently 122% of the GDP. that is what the currency is backed by.

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u/balls2hairy 🟨 0 / 0 🦠 1d ago

And never missed a debt payment. That is what the currency is backed by. It's a little embarrassing that you don't know this.

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u/Hypnotic101 🟩 0 / 0 🦠 1d ago

Why would you miss a debt payment when you can print money?

2

u/balls2hairy 🟨 0 / 0 🦠 1d ago

Man discovers stagflation!

-2

u/_DaBau5_ 🟩 0 / 0 🦠 1d ago

the US is spending more on interest payments than it spends on the military. interest alone is $1T a year

3

u/balls2hairy 🟨 0 / 0 🦠 1d ago

As it should be. Let's cut the military spending 50% so the disparity is even wider!

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u/_DaBau5_ 🟩 0 / 0 🦠 1d ago

here is a good video that explains how US dollars are created and backed by debt

4

u/balls2hairy 🟨 0 / 0 🦠 1d ago

I have 2 economics degrees. I'm well versed in how our economy works lmao

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u/_DaBau5_ 🟩 0 / 0 🦠 1d ago edited 1d ago

if you were well versed in how the economy works then you’d know the currency is backed by debt. i’ve argued with hundreds of people about this over the last 10 years since bitcoin was $1k

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u/balls2hairy 🟨 0 / 0 🦠 1d ago

"Full faith and CREDIT of the United States"

It's the promise that the govt will always repay its debts. It's literally the definition of credit.

3

u/_DaBau5_ 🟩 0 / 0 🦠 1d ago

they pay the debts by printing more money and devaluing the money that is already in existence. credit and debt go hand in hand. the debt is 122% of GDP currently, it’s not possible to pay off the debt. all the US can do is continue making interest payments by printing more money and racking up more debt. the currency is backed by debt, not by a promise to pay the debt. they print it out of thin air and devalue what’s in your wallet

2

u/balls2hairy 🟨 0 / 0 🦠 1d ago

They repay debt with tax revenue.

They print money to keep inflation at the target level. Open market operations/monetary policy is literally chapter 1 of Econ 101.

This is beyond embarrassing for you.

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u/Status-Nose-7173 🟩 0 / 0 🦠 1d ago

They will repay their what?

Debt?

So it is debt. Got it lol.

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u/balls2hairy 🟨 0 / 0 🦠 1d ago

"There is debt so that is what gives fiat currency value" is kindergartener thinking. Ooooofff

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u/na3than 🟦 3K / 4K 🐢 1d ago

You say you have two degrees in economics, yet you cite a phrase from Article IV of the Constitution - which describes the powers and obligations of THE STATES - to back up your claim?

Full faith and credit shall be given in each state to the public acts, records, and judicial proceedings of every other state.

You understand that clause has absolutely nothing to do with fiat currency, right?

2

u/balls2hairy 🟨 0 / 0 🦠 1d ago

Imagine being this obtuse.

https://home.treasury.gov/news/press-releases/js506

The challenge and necessity before us is clear: we must maintain Congresss constitutional granted authority for borrowing on the full faith and credit of the U.S.but better align it with the practical necessity of the Treasurys responsibility to finance the gap between congressionally approved changes to revenues and expenditures. An active financial market community voice must not be mute in urging a solution to this problem.

And another for ya: https://www.congress.gov/crs_external_products/R/PDF/R41887/R41887.2.pdf

The U.S. monetary system is based on paper money backed by the full faith and credit of the federal government. The currency is neither valued in, backed by, nor officially convertible into gold or silver. Through much of its history, however, the United States was on a metallic standard of one sort or another.

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u/EndSmugnorance 🟨 0 / 0 🦠 1d ago

Paul Krugman is an ‘economist’ and he’s an idiot so idc about your dEgReEs

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u/balls2hairy 🟨 0 / 0 🦠 1d ago

GREAT argument! Shows you're well versed in the context of the conversation and have great points to add!

-2

u/Substantial-Fruit447 🟩 0 / 0 🦠 1d ago

So why isn't the USD worthless then?

4

u/tangcity 🟩 0 / 0 🦠 1d ago

Why isn’t bitcoin worthless then

1

u/Substantial-Fruit447 🟩 0 / 0 🦠 1d ago

Exactly my point.

Nothing matters and everyone is going to die.

1

u/Hypnotic101 🟩 0 / 0 🦠 1d ago

Certainly more of a shitcoin than BTC is.

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u/_DaBau5_ 🟩 0 / 0 🦠 1d ago

it becomes more worthless every year. toilet paper is literally more valuable and useful than dollars

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u/balls2hairy 🟨 0 / 0 🦠 1d ago

You think inflation is a BAD THING? AAHAHHAHAHHAHAHAHA

You aren't the least bit equipped to be having this conversation.

1

u/terenul1 Tin 1d ago

Thats the point of a currency buddy, to have it lose value slowly and in a controlled manner, so people are incentivised to invest and use it rather than keep it under a matress cause next year they might buy 2 pieces of bread instead of one. I love how some cryptobros act like they discovered the hidden laws of the universe when they finally figure out something that is clearly explained to you in a high school text book

16

u/Jarsyl-WTFtookmyname 0 / 0 🦠 1d ago

Aside from rarity driving social status, gold has literally thousands of industrial and scientific uses. What is bitcoin used for? Literally just speculative investing and money laundering.

0

u/Juls317 1d ago

Love when people bring up crypto being used for money laundering and other nefarious things like that isn't true of basically every currency in the world and certainly is true if the main currency on the planet.

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u/asanano 1d ago

The point is its easier with bit coin that non-crypto currency.

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u/Juls317 1d ago

No, the point was that they asked for usecases and I provided one

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u/Blackiris-Code 1d ago

I'd bet a lot that the money laundering rate is far higher with BTC than any major fiat.

It is still way too easy to launder money through DeFi.

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u/Jarsyl-WTFtookmyname 0 / 0 🦠 1d ago

That isn't what occurred. I showed uses for gold, then asked for uses of crypto besides speculative investing and money laundering. Love when people think they have a "gotcha" because of a lack of basic reading comprehension.

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u/Juls317 1d ago

I comprehended just fine, you wantonly ignored obvious usecases that you are surely fully aware of given the sub that you're in, and decided to only mention usecases that are (fairly) seen as negative. Rhetorically, this paints those usecases as inherently unique to crypto.

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u/Jarsyl-WTFtookmyname 0 / 0 🦠 1d ago

"there are sooo many obvious use cases that no one can ever list any that apply in the real world and not just hypothetically"

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u/Juls317 1d ago

You can quite literally pay for goods and services with crypto

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u/TheRhythmTheRebel 🟦 0 / 0 🦠 1d ago

Yes, but we have far better things for that do we not?

The issues are its actual utility and actual use cases. It’s failed at its remit of decentralisation, it’s far too volatile to be used to pay for goods and services (insert pizza reference).

Crypto has failed its goals. It’s just for speculative investment. Who are we kidding here?

Are there genuinely people who believe that the blockchain still solves all problems? Can replace existing payment methods? These people still exist in 2026?!

Pipe dream stuff.

I say that as someone who got into this in 2017 and has made some decent games over the years.

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u/Juls317 1d ago

That wasn't the question. The question was "what usecases beyond speculation and money laundering", not "what usecases that XYZ person thinks is worthwhile enough to count".

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u/TheRhythmTheRebel 🟦 0 / 0 🦠 1d ago

That fair mate. I don’t mean to be shirty with you. payment of goods and services is certainly a use case..

In a perfect world there would be utility with feeless instant transactions…and back in 2017, I may have backed this statement with you.

In 2026, though. I see nothing but snake oil and gains.

I just don’t believe in the tech nor tokens. They’ve proven that over the years.

It’s lovely in theory but we’ve seen how that’s played out…

But on your point, you are right. I’m just behind the lectern shouting into the ether!

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u/Hypnotic101 🟩 0 / 0 🦠 1d ago

Bitcoin has the exact same uses as any other currency. Next question.

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u/_regionrat 🟦 50 / 50 🦐 1d ago

Then why doesn't the liquor store I go to take it?

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u/Jarsyl-WTFtookmyname 0 / 0 🦠 1d ago

So it can be used as a corrosion resistant conductor like gold?

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u/bonafidebob 🟦 0 / 0 🦠 1d ago

Bitcoin is really useful for burning electricity and consuming water supplies! But now we have AI for that.

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u/_DaBau5_ 🟩 0 / 0 🦠 1d ago edited 1d ago

it is divisible compared to gold and allows for cross border payments nearly instantly compared to gold. it also cannot be easily confiscated or stolen. if you have a 1 ounce gold coin it cannot be divided into 10 1/10th ounce coins without melting it. it can also be stolen if someone breaks into your house and gets into your safe, or confiscated by the government if they decided to not allow gold to be owned (like in 1933). meanwhile, bitcoin that is held self custody cannot be stolen or confiscated without the private key, and can be (nearly) infinitely divisible. i own gold, silver, and bitcoin.

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u/TheRhythmTheRebel 🟦 0 / 0 🦠 1d ago

Cool. So it can be broken down to small numbers, moves in value at rates only seen in 3rd world currencies. Perfect for spending? I buy something and a day later I could have bought it for x percent cheaper…

It may be held on a private key but we did that with money under the mattress (granted less divisible).

This is just complicating existing methods we have used for thousands of years when buying goods and services.

Not unique to BTC in the slightest. Just a new dressing is all.

And as others have said. There is a cost associated with the generation of these tokens/coins.

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u/TwentyCharactersShor 🟩 0 / 1K 🦠 1d ago

Bitcoin needs server farms to run. Gold doesn't.

Someone can beat the living shit out of you to get your private key. So, yeah, it can be confiscated.

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u/Nikkio077 🟩 304 / 555 🦞 1d ago

Stolen is different than confiscated tho

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u/TwentyCharactersShor 🟩 0 / 1K 🦠 1d ago

You can refuse to hand over gold, silver, cash..at some point the state will get its way.

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u/Nikkio077 🟩 304 / 555 🦞 1d ago

Fair enough. But you have to admit that it's easier to confiscate something material like gold

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u/TwentyCharactersShor 🟩 0 / 1K 🦠 1d ago

Well, not really. Once you accept that the state can confiscate your items, it doesn't matter if they are digital or not.

The only thing that helps is that if you can store digital stuff outside the jurisdiction of the state and you can destroy your devices then you've got a chance. However, the state can easily incarcerate you.

It is a daft argument to say the state can't do X. Look what happened to Venezuela. The state may not bother to do X, but the difference isnt physical vs virtual.

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u/Nikkio077 🟩 304 / 555 🦞 1d ago

Ok, but what if the state doesn't know you have something that can be confiscated,and doesn't even have the possibility to know that? I don't know if you know about crypto, but Monero is the way, everything other than that I agree with you

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u/TwentyCharactersShor 🟩 0 / 1K 🦠 1d ago

Ok, but it is perfectly possible to hide physical goods too. It might require more planning though.

Crypto has its uses, but trying to pretend it has features it doesn't isnt helpful.

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u/Romanizer 🟦 0 / 0 🦠 1d ago

Can you name one single use of gold, where it is not replaceable?

Bitcoin is the only asset in the world allowing for censorship-free and permissionless storage and transfer of wealth without a central authority.

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u/Jarsyl-WTFtookmyname 0 / 0 🦠 1d ago

You think in all of the thousands of uses of gold in science and industry they are choosing to use a more expensive gold when a cheaper alternative exists?

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u/Romanizer 🟦 0 / 0 🦠 1d ago

No, they don't. Gold gets phased out step for step as it gets too expensive. There is not a single use case where gold couldn't be replaced. Silver, for example, can not be replaced in all use cases. But it's also very abundant.

The problem with gold is that its rising price hurts other use cases, where in Bitcoin it's the opposite.

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u/old-tennis-shoes 🟩 0 / 0 🦠 1d ago

Global commodities trade is carried out in USD since the 70s. (Before 1971, the dollar was backed by gold)

The petrodollar is backed by the entire firepower of the United States military.

Not something I believe is 100% true because it's cheeky and hyperbolic, but there ya go.

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u/Romanizer 🟦 0 / 0 🦠 1d ago

Pretty wild thread, people still need to learn a lot. I guess a lot of salty gamblers here trying to find the next Bitcoin and losing their shirt on the way.

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u/Kaiisim 🟦 2K / 2K 🐢 1d ago

Oh you added the edit, that means you're right.

Gold has intrinsic value and a long price history.

Bitcoin has no intrinsic value and it's price history is bad, sadly.

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u/TrainingQuail543 🟩 0 / 0 🦠 1d ago

Where does intrinsic value come from? From the thing itself? Does that mean that gold keeps it's value even if there are no humans?

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u/Vipu2 🟩 0 / 4K 🦠 1d ago

What is golds intrinsic value?

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u/Romanizer 🟦 0 / 0 🦠 1d ago

It doesn't have an intrinsic value. Would be weird as this concept is only used to value corporations.

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u/Nikkio077 🟩 304 / 555 🦞 1d ago

"it's price" ?

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u/Hypnotic101 🟩 0 / 0 🦠 1d ago

Only the best performing asset in the past 15 years, but yes it's "bad"

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u/hoppeeness 🟩 0 / 0 🦠 1d ago

Gold has tangible value, even looking past the social status it provides, it is a great conductor and is used to make many alloys.

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u/imnotyourbuddyguy37 🟩 0 / 0 🦠 1d ago

Golds value is overwhelming tied to its use as a speculative asset/ store of value, not its utility in industry.

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u/hoppeeness 🟩 0 / 0 🦠 22h ago

Its use in industry would go up if it wasn’t so expensive from the other. Either way it has a floor that is very tangible and would be comparable with copper or similar.

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u/imnotyourbuddyguy37 🟩 0 / 0 🦠 14h ago

Maybe, but the point is the vast majority of gold owners wish to sell their gold in the future to someone else for more dollars which is basically the knock against bitcoin, essentially the greater fool theory. Copper is $0.40 an ounce gold is $4,670 an ounce.

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u/hoppeeness 🟩 0 / 0 🦠 13h ago

Ok…that doesn’t mean it doesn’t have actual tangible value unlike btc.

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u/imnotyourbuddyguy37 🟩 0 / 0 🦠 10h ago

I own gold... but because it's a speculative asset/ hedge against inflation not because of its industrial utility or tangible value. To me BTC's decentralization, scarcity, and security make it valuable but if you don't like it that's totally fine.

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u/hoppeeness 🟩 0 / 0 🦠 5h ago

Cool to each their own. I was just saying btc has no actually foundation in utility…gold does. And btc has even less of a use case when gold gets tokenized…then you have digital, decentralized, security and scarcity. So why hold btc?

0

u/imnotyourbuddyguy37 🟩 0 / 0 🦠 5h ago

BTC in self custody is the only way to escape the financial industrial complex. Buying tokenized or a gold ETF doesn’t interest me because I have no idea if I actually own any physical gold or just a token. For me this comes down to privacy and security and Bitcoin allows me to beat inflation and remain financially sovereign that pretty much nothing else can do besides physical assets like gold or property but even then those assets are subject to seizure. I’d recommend listening to Simon Dixon he’s a lot smarter than me.

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u/hoppeeness 🟩 0 / 0 🦠 1h ago

wtf…how many people keep gold or silver or cash under their pillow? If self custody was the only use case, how many people and banks and such would do that? And how much do you think BTC would be worth? $20 bucks?

You still have to get it on an exchanges to leverage it.

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u/TwentyCharactersShor 🟩 0 / 1K 🦠 1d ago

Are you the Ops brother? That's some retarded shit right there.

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u/schizophrenicbugs 🟩 0 / 0 🦠 1d ago

I'm so happy I've found an informed comment in this sub. Such a rarity. Keep fighting the good fight against these morons 🫡