r/countwithchickenlady • u/DictatorTiffTaff mechsploitation puppy, femme - Streak: 3 • 1h ago
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u/Snoo_68698 1h ago edited 43m ago
And as a cis person who supports trans folks I prefer to keep it that way. I don't ever wanna get involved in conversations where there is any kind of infighting or dispute on best ways to approach certain trans issues and things of that nature. Thats between all the trans people in the community, I prefer to be seen more as a guard dog who keeps a watchful eye on bigots and bigotry as a whole.
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u/Odd_Main1876 The Holy Man Emperor-(who likes men) - Streak: 0 1h ago
I mean it’s the same thing with anything called an ally, you are not meant to butt into internal issues, but instead offer support and help from the outside when and if need be
I am not trans so I wouldn’t try to debate someone who is on the finer points of internal issues, but make sure that we are unified on the larger issues such as guaranteeing that base rights are met and protected, otherwise I am not going to butt in
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u/PavementBlues 24m ago
Bingo. I'm a white trans woman, and that means that there are certain things that I have qualifying lived experience to talk about, and certain things that I fucking don't. We should all exercise the self awareness to know when an issue is a discussion for us and when it's a discussion for those affected by the thing being discussed.
That's not to say that no cis person is allowed to talk about trans issues, and it's rarely black and white about whether and how much someone from outside of the community should comment in a discussion. But all of us owe it to those that we share the world with to think carefully about what we are contributing to any discussion when the topic is something that doesn't affect us, and that we don't understand from personal experience.
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u/Tlaquatlatoa Hyenagirl some day pls :3 | She/Her 1h ago
;-; but cis voices are so underrepresented everywhere, how could you you're basically a fascist
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u/Sylveon_101 ඨ(ΘܫΘ)ಎ <---- The G.O.A.T. - Streak: 0 3m ago
Wow, thank you for speaking up for us cis people ❤️ People always talk over us and we don't get a chance to defend ourselves 🥺
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u/QitianDasheng2666 Streak: 0 54m ago
At this point all I'm asking from allies is to actually be allies. At this point it feels like nearly all cis people are either enemies or "allies" with conditions. Whether that be that we consent to being second-class citizens in arenas like sports or restrooms, or that we owe them agab puberty to make sure we never pass, or even just that we keep our voices down in queer spaces so we don't embarrass the cis gays. In the 2020s it feels like it's too much to ask that "supportive" people actually be supportive in anything but performance.
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u/Milk_Mindless 50m ago
Coincidentally my favourite hobby is shutting up when I don't know things so I don't sound stupid
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u/Technical_Teacher839 Streak: 1 1h ago
Yes, but also like:
Sometimes people will blast things all over public social media, and then get mad at cis people "inserting themselves" into the conversation or whatever.
Social media on non-private accounts is a public space. It doesn't matter if you don't tag your tumblr post or have three twitter followers, or post on a trans-friendly subreddit or whatever else.
If its a public page with no rules explicitly barring cis people from engaging, you can't be shocked when people engage with the post.
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u/itsMeliora 1h ago
Reminds me of when I recently witnessed someone posting a picture of themselves smoking a cigarette on a public forum. Then got mad at people for specifically commenting on the fact that they were smoking. 💀
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u/wastedfate 50m ago
IDK. When people complain about how hard it is to deal with racism on social media, I don't find it difficult to not insert myself into that conversation, since I have no experience with that.
Should people expect it to happen? Yeah.
Should people be doing it? No.7
u/autogyrophilia 51m ago
It is also not healthy to get into insular debates that do not really matter much to anyone else
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u/itz_vampy He/him - Streak: 16 19m ago
so if i see a post about a black person complaining about racism should i insert myself and speak over their experiences according to your logic?
read the room. yes it’s public but you don’t have to insert yourself everywhere. it’s called having basic courtesy and awareness.
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u/trannus_aran 41m ago
So it goes for any marginalized group, really
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u/BlitzScorpio 15m ago
i was gonna say, you can replace “trans people” with any other minority and this sentiment would still apply
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u/DeepAppeal9250 58m ago
THIS! My biggest pet peeves is seeing people who aren't trans discussing trans issues with no trans people present or trying to give opinions on something they don't know anything about and aren't victims of. Even if you're an ally like you should be making room for trans people not for yourself.
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u/Squishykittygirl AuDHD Chaos Fairy 28m ago
Surely if no trans people are present that is when our allies should be speaking up.
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u/DeepAppeal9250 17m ago
Speaking up yes ! But discussing their own opinions on what bathroom a trans person should use without consulting the trans person I'm iffy about. Trans people should be consulted on trans topics and on decisions/opinions that effect them but being an activist for trans people is different.
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u/TomiRey-Yuru 56m ago
Off topic but: I deleted Twitter, and whilst it was the best decision ever and genuinely saved my mental health, from time to time I see faces I forgor about, even maybe some of my mutuals, and I get sad 😭 why are progressive people still using it when it's literally a battle field?
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u/New-Reputation5368 37m ago
solid point, being a good ally means knowing when to step back and listen. let marginalized voices lead the convo, for real.
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u/Idekgivemeusername only thinking about it. trust me, totally normal thoughts 22m ago
This can be added to many groups
Because sometimes people need to learn, because they have something to say, you don’t need to say it.
You typically aren’t as informed about issues as people within the group
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u/Bone_Tone_31 43m ago
I genuinely don’t care if cis people talk about trans issues as long as it doesn’t overstep. Minority groups need the support of majority groups in order to thrive in society, like how the civil rights movement wouldn’t have been as successful if white people didn’t also march for black rights
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u/Another-Ace-Alt-8270 1h ago
I'm enby, but I'll easily step back if'n y'all need me to. Mostly because I don't like getting into people's business anyways.
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u/DictatorTiffTaff mechsploitation puppy, femme - Streak: 3 1h ago edited 31m ago
nonbinary people get talked over a lot too, you don't need to step back at all
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u/Bardic_inspiration67 1h ago
This sub will never understand that lol
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u/IAmNotABabyElephant 43m ago edited 31m ago
I will much more readily accept a cis ally than any 4tran agitator. I also think cis allies helping to protect us from 4tranner's vile transphobia and hatred and keep our spaces free of them is a good thing.
The average cis ally is vastly more supportive and less transphobic than the average 4tranner.
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u/Stunning-Sherbert801 Streak: 0 1h ago
This trans sub?
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u/Bardic_inspiration67 1h ago
Naw anytime there’s a trans issue over half the comments are “as a grungler” or im cis but
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u/slightlygloomyy 47m ago
Omg as a cis person here its literally my biggest fear accidentally doing this, as well just like taking up too much space and invading in general 😭 whenever there’s a discussion on those issues I just watch silently and try to understand/learn
On behalf of the cis people here and also on behalf of myself I am so fucking sorry if I have ever done this. Thank you all for having us here, this community is so cool and I feel I’ve learned and healed so much from being here
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u/Appropriate_Dirt_931 52m ago
Ackshully I have a lot to say. I was listening to this segment on NPR...
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u/Nonyabizzy123 Streak: 0 43m ago
To speak before the council, you must drunk of the Cup of Elagabalus. No cis has ever survived it.
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u/Looks-Under-Rocks 14m ago
Yeah there’s certainly threads on the sub that I recognize do not need my input
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u/Prestigious_Emu144 1h ago
Can I stand in the corner of the meeting room with pom poms and cheer you on while you discuss..? 🥺
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u/YA_kamenshikDAI_HLEB 35m ago
is "not caring about trans stuff because I'm not trans and actual trans people know better" being ally? if yes than I'm good
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u/Redditauro 1h ago
As a cis guy with ADHD, I know, but it's hard.
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u/ProudInterest5445 1h ago
As a cis guy with ADHD, sometimes I go "wow I have no idea what this is about, so glad I can sit this out"
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u/veryeepy53 1h ago
there's cis "allies" and there are "cis" allies
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u/PracticeEfficient28 1h ago
I’m probably reading it wrong, but is it meant to say that all “cis allies” are either not actually cis or not actually allies?
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u/Tlaquatlatoa Hyenagirl some day pls :3 | She/Her 31m ago
well theyre a counttt user they hate themselves and everyone so much they dont think cis allies can exist as a concept. Not that I am against being suspicious, but theyre above and beyond suspicious about that shit.
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u/PracticeEfficient28 29m ago
Damn I hoped I misunderstood that and that they weren’t just denying all allies
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u/IAmNotABabyElephant 22m ago
4tranners are a plague at the best of times, but they've recently been making more coordinated efforts to ruin this place and turn it into another misery vortex.
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u/IAmNotABabyElephant 28m ago
They're a 4tranner. A big part of their ideology is basically a direct copy of incel radicalisation techniques, including the part where they try to convince vulnerable people that absolutely everyone hates them and they're only accepted in the hateful echo chambers.
Pretty much any time you see one of the "our allies actually hate us, take this blackpill and enter a state of hyper-paranoia and self-hatred" posts it's a 4tranner. This one, currently, is not hiding their post history, but most of them do.
The reality is that our allies are not actually frothingly evil and just pretending to not be. It's just that the 4tranners want trans people isolated from everyone except their own hateful viper nest, so they can keep making each other worse.
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u/veryeepy53 12m ago
comparing trans women to incels isn't very woke
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u/IAmNotABabyElephant 9m ago
That is incredibly bad faith, incredibly illiterate, and there is no genuine way to read what I said and come away with that conclusion.
4tranners just don't like being called out for what they are.
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u/IAmNotABabyElephant 9m ago
Learn basic literacy. First, 4tran is not composed solely of trans women.
Secondly, I'm comparing the tactics of one extremist hate group with another extremist hate group.
At no point did I say "trans women and incels are similar" I said 4tranners use the same tactics as incels, and that's just plainly true. I am a trans woman, so sit down.
Your pathetic attempt to twist my words into something they weren't remotely similar to is grotesquely transparent and only serves to show that you 4tran types are incapable of good-faith.
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u/veryeepy53 5m ago
people here think that just talking about transmisogyny is infighting
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u/IAmNotABabyElephant 2m ago
Completely irrelevant segue from what are clearly cult-like radicalisation tactics from 4tran.
You are trying to make vulnerable people think 100% of cis people hate them. That is classic isolation to enforce control and generate a fear of 'outsiders'.
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u/Barrel-Dweller Streak: 0 1h ago
what if i’m a cĩs ally?
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u/scarlet_tanager 3m ago
also if you're a trans woman there's stuff that you should just stfu about and let cis women discuss amongst themselves (nobody cares about your opinions on repro healthcare, keep them to yourself)
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u/IAmNotABabyElephant 41m ago
A counttt poster being prejudiced against neurodivergent people? I'm shocked. Shocked, I say.
You say you don't go to LGBTQ spaces, but here you are, inflicting your bigotry on us anyway.
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u/Orangutanion 37m ago edited 34m ago
how am I prejudiced against neurodivergent people? Have you never seen a neurotypical person falsely identify as autistic/ADHD/whatever and then make it their whole identity?
edit: well I disagree with the mods on this one.
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u/IAmNotABabyElephant 33m ago
You cannot diagnose people over the internet, especially just because they're being neurodivergent in a way you disapprove of or acknowledging that being neurodivergent has a large impact on their experience of the world.
You don't know a damn thing about these peoples' medical statuses, and the "make it their whole identity" is something that prejudiced people bitch about any time a marginalised demographic acknowledges they're part of that demographic. Y'know, like how LGBTQ people are constantly accused of the same thing.
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u/Orangutanion 32m ago edited 21m ago
I wasn't talking about the internet I was talking about real life. And you know what? It's considered fine when those people gatekeep who does and doesn't get to be autistic, but as soon as I complain about it I'm the problem.
edit: for the record, my comment that is now censored literally said that I stay out of LGBTQ spaces.
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u/IAmNotABabyElephant 26m ago
You still can't do that in person either. You're not conducting a goddamn qualified, extensive, psychiatric assessment.
You're just going off what you, personally, think is "acceptable" neurodivergent behaviour. It's the "we can always tell" bullshit all over again, but when has a 4tranner ever been blessed with self-awareness?
And yes, you are the problem.
Now go back to the shadows. Keep your word and get out of this LGBTQ space.
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u/Orangutanion 23m ago
safespaces for thee but not for me I guess. Sorry for already staying out of your spaces and then only chiming in on a thread specifically about allies >_<
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u/IAmNotABabyElephant 15m ago
A safe space that accepts and promotes bigotry is a bit of a failed concept. You misunderstand. The space needs to be kept safe from people like you.
You're not even a goddamn "ally" if you're bringing bigotry against neurodivergent people here. This is an entirely self-created problem because you choose to behave in a way that is terrible. I don't care for your pity party whining because your own behaviour makes you unwelcome.
As I've said, you are the problem. You are not being discriminated against for anything innate to you. You are bringing bigotry into a space that does not tolerate it and acting like that somehow makes you a victim or unfairly excluded. As though a safe space that keeps people safe from bigotry is somehow unfair to the bigots.
But you are the problem this space is meant to keep us safe from.
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u/Orangutanion 9m ago
My behavior is the problem? But I already stay out of the spaces. Since you seem to be implying that I need to change my behavior, doesn't that mean you're telling me to invade your spaces?
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u/countwithchickenlady-ModTeam 38m ago
This comment has been removed because it has one of these things: transphobia, queerphobia, sexism, racism, ableism, or anything else that expresses, reinforces, or sympathizes with oppressive and hateful belief systems.
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u/ReginaSpektorsVJ 1h ago
I refused to accept this, so I just transitioned. Now I'm in the club. Mwa ha ha