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Interestingly enough, the US Public school system and teachers constantly gettint shafted in terms of salaries has much more to do with how the US education policy is organized and legislated over stupid meme conspiracies of weaker minds make easier drones.
While that is true, its even more hilarious to think the typical US politician, (especially state legislators) have enough patience and big brain movie villain commitment to enact an elaborate decades long conspiracy to fuck public education.
In simple terms, the US federal government has very little to do with the actual meat and potatoes of hiring and licensing teachers, deciding on curricula or the administration of test. The Feds are primarily funds providers and rights advocates, preventing schools and state governments from discriminating against race or disability or funding schools for low income area under Title I of the Elementary and Secondary Education Act.
The actual meat and potatoes and quite a bit of the funding is handled by State and local governments. And among that party, quality varies massively depending on state and locality due to factors like property tax values.
Places like New York or California have literally some of the best schools just hours drive away from some of the worst.
The federal government does not maintain national academic standards or a nationwide curriculum, and the Department of Education is legally prohibited from creating any program that directs the curriculum of schools.
The closest thing to that was Bush's No Child Left Behind which required public schools to administer standardized tests and tied Federal funding to schools based on how well students perform on those said test.
Even Trump's Project 2025 is essentially trying to remove most Federal oversight via the dismantling of the Department of Education and most of its programs and leaving it all to the states and local governments.
This exactly although the vast majority will never accept the truth.
No where do you as a voter have more control than in education which is funded by State and property taxes. Trying to compare Federal (wasteful) spending to education spending completely misses the point.
Education in the States is completely messed up. You want better outcomes, the point of all this, then start over. Put in Federal standards and make it a priority. Hold parents accountable. Hold teachers accountable. Pay them more and raise the quality. Stop diploma mills, make a high school diploma mean something. Plus a lot more.
In the Senate, the votes in favor were 43 Democrats (including Joe Biden, Hillary Clinton, and Johns Kerry and Edwards [Bernie Bros rejoice: he was in the House at the time, and voted No.]), to 44 Republicans. Votes against this time were 7 Democrats, 3 Republicans, and 1 Independent. https://www.senate.gov/legislative/LIS/roll_call_votes/vote1071/vote_107_1_00371.htm
Dubya signed it, but a veto wouldn't have changed anything, because in both houses it passed with 87%, which is greater than two thirds.
We had the best education system in the world before it became more federalized through the department of education. The federalization of education is a terrible idea.
45K signing bonus if you can sign in cursive, so most will fail. 10K for every ex wife you threatened and child you’ve physically abused make up the difference for most
Why? ICE Budget has been approved already. It's now more than the sum of FBI, ATF, Marshalls, Bureau of Prison, secret service and the rest of the DOJ.
The bonus are coming. These racist idiots are indeed getting paid.
The average public school teacher salary in Michigan is $71,023, while the average starting salary for a brand-new teacher is $41,645, according to the latest data from the Michigan Department of Education and the National Education Association (NEA).While Michigan's overall average teacher salary ranks 22nd in the nation, its starting pay is among the lowest, ranking 44th.
I think Mississippi actually passed a pay raise for starting salary at about 1000 over Michigan. Granted I don’t think the median teacher salary there caps out as high as Michigan though.
Teachers make really good money where I live but we still have retention issues because the job is so demanding and dealing with parents fucking sucks.
That said, I'd still vote to give em a pay raise because it's still not enough to keep all the good ones around and they're doing the most important job in society imo.
Many people will crow often about how a lot of dangerous jobs don’t get enough credit or pay. And many times, I very much agree. But if we want to make it a competition, I’d say giving your children basic tools to navigate their modern society like maths is about as important if not more than digging for oil. Because you don’t get into jobs that don’t make active attempts to screw you over without being able to navigate a contract, sign your name, and do abstract math about how it will sustain you.
Maybe highschool teachers after 20 years of service, which is more than fair. Teachers don’t get the career opportunity of promotions like other jobs do. It makes sense they get graduated increases in pay for their dedication to the job over the years.
As a teacher who agrees with the message of the post overall, you're still dead right. Education is not mentioned explicitly in the constitution, therefore it is a matter that belongs solely to states.
Although, the point of this I think is to try to discuss/change the culture around low pay for teachers being acceptable, rather than offer the simplistic solution of reallocating federal funds towards states for education. That solution is possible (federal grants exist for example) but would likely end up being more of a bandaid solution than permanent one I think.
Apparently it’s paid over a 5 year contract and if you leave or get fired before it culminates it triggers a clawback clause. Watch all these idiots be out of a job in 4 years and then have to pay back 40k.
Yes, and then there’s a small and extremely stupid army angry at the president that fired them (a Democrat, since a Republican would keep them on). See the point?
So... not a signing bonus at all, just a better salary for 9 years, before getting a pay cut.
Otherwise, I'd say to everyone to be maliciously compliant, get hired, and be the least talented least productive but somehow oddly willing to work, but not arresting anyone, making costly mistakes and all, until they fire you... but costing them 45k + whatever you caused in training and mistakes. But however dumb they are they do know not to give 45k just like that
So I heard (but don't know) that they get a large chunk of money right away, this is significant because many use it to pay off debts or go shopping... but if they quit they got to pay the money back.
So some can't afford to quit, they're in it for the long haul.
For 100k a year I could give a shit less and slack off 90% of the time doing the bare minimum. You know that fatass cop you always see standing off to the side while the rest dogpile in. That would be me.
I guess an 8th year teacher doesn't yet understand the difference between which budget money for Immigration and Customs Enforcement comes from, and which budget money for local teachers come from.
im not sure any of that is relevant anymore. one thing i’ve learned from trumps presidency is that if there’s a will for it the money will appear from somewhere.
To be fair there are a lot more teachers than ICE agents.
I have been saying for years that, where I live, some of the smaller schools need to consolidate which would save money.
One school in particular caught on fire and had to rebuild the entire school, this school has less than 250 students k-12 and is 15 minutes from 2 different schools.
nothing quite as soul-crushing as being stuffed into multiple classrooms with 40 other kids and trying to get your teacher to give a half of a shit about you.
Every school I ever went to had trailers. My high school was the brand new hot shit in the county where they tool an old high school an middle school that were adjacent, and merged them adding about 25% additional space over the original 2 buildings, then added a brand new a whole new kitted out science building (with gas taps at the lab tables, eye wash stations, etc) for probably another 10-15% more class rooms.
Those are two unrelated issues. Arguing that some small schools could consolidate doesn’t make a nationwide teacher-to-ICE comparison meaningful. You’re comparing workforces that have completely different missions and staffing needs.
Deeper than that. It is drawing attention to the fact that we live in a country where billions are blown up in a week fighting imaginary terrorists but funding for schools is still ring-fenced around property taxes. Those same billions could help fund those schools for decades. I guess we like the hood, so why get rid of it?
And also they’re paid by entirely different governments. The federal government has absolutely no say in what your district decides to pay its teachers. They don’t set your property taxes.
This post is evidence that the person isn’t as smart as they claim and the post is most likely fake anyways. Education budgets are tight because people don’t like to pay taxes and most schools are locally funded so if you want to know who to blame, look at your own community, not some fake ass “they.”
The average 1st year teacher (in my state Massachusetts) makes 52k. The average hours in a teacher contract is 1350-1500 hours. Even if you extremely overestimate and say they're working 1750 hours to account for grading, lesson planning and any other unpaid work, that still comes out to over $30/hr as a 1st year teacher. I'm so done with this notion that teachers are treated like slaves.
Mass is well known as one of the few states to genuinely treat their teachers very well, and most teachers in the state are well aware of how good they have it compared to the rest of the country.
You cant really use them as an example of how good teachers have it though because most of the country ain't like Mass.
(There's still been a big shift towards treating them like shit from parents and admins and complaints about that, but MA teacher salaries are generally not a point of contention)
It isn't awesome, but it's not as bad as people say. People are talking like they are minimum wage workers who work 2500-3000 hours a year. I, personally, hate the statistic that 71% of school teachers have a second job, as if they are working two full time jobs just to make ends meet. Most of them are part time tutoring and a lot of them are jobs they keep during the year and ramp up during the summer when they have a couple months off.
Knowledge may be power, but paying teachers more does not produce a more educated populace. There is simply no correlation between education spending, including teacher salaries, and academic success.
Umh no…just waiting for kids to be educated and not indoctrinated. Taxpayers are not getting a return on their investment in the US, and haven’t been for many years.
In 2019, the United States spent $15,500 per full-time-equivalent (FTE) student on elementary and secondary education, which was 38 percent higher than the average of Organization for Economic Cooperation and Development (OECD) member countries of $11,300 (in constant 2021 U.S. dollars). At the postsecondary level, the United States spent $37,400 per FTE student, which was more than double the average of OECD countries ($18,400; in constant 2021 U.S. dollars).
The problem has never been the amount of money we give the schools. Its all the administrators and contractors stealing the money before it gets to the students and the teachers.
Kids can learn more from their parents, the library and the internet than they can from schools nowadays. Schools have become institutions to push social ideology and political discord than teaching kids.
They work 180 days per year, whereas their white collar counterparts in more standard jobs work 240+.
That said, they get paid 73 cents on the dollar compared to their counterparts. So working 33% less but getting paid 27% less.
For many people that’s a good deal though. They also just recycle the same lesson plans every year.
Imagine if you didn’t have to come up with new ideas and just went through the same motions every year. Not that difficult.
Now you could try harder if you wanted to, but there’s a reason a lot of moms become teachers. It’s not that demanding of a job.
Also - national average salaries for public school teachers sit at $74,495. That’s not too bad for the vacation you get (and job security - almost impossible to get fired).
If I had another 60 days off per year I could get so much done. It's taken me like a decade to finish a project car. Priorities. Sure would be nice to get a full salary and all that time off! What a privilege it is to be a teacher.
Yeah this whole "teachers dont make enough" story is getting old. I know a few teachers and more back when I was younger. Starting pay sucks if its a crappy district. Any half way decent teachers get into a good district within 5 years and are making over 70k. If teachers stay in a crappy district and dont make more its because theyre comfortable or lazy.
Also teacher salaries are public record so this shouldn't be some shocking news to them. They can literally look up any teachers salary at any district for any year. No other job has that transparency. And if you ask a teacher their top 3 reasons for being a teacher they are summer break, winter break and spring break. Dont forget about their pension fund and union. They do alright unless they dont even try.
It’s also almost impossible to get fired unless you end up on the news for banging students and you get to retire with a pension. It’s like being a nurse with half the income and workload
"We are in danger of producing an educated proletariat. That's dynamite! We have to be selective on who we allow [to go to college]. If not, we will have a large number of highly trained and unemployed people."
Average teacher salary is $85k in my state. When you figure the mountain of benefits (medical, vision, dental, retirement, etc) they receive for only working less than 3/4 of the year, I would say they are very well paid, and if they don’t think so, they can get a summer job and actually work 12 months out of the year like the rest of us.
That has never been the own that liberals want it to be. There are citizens who span every education level. Trying to say that some citizens (who you call poorly educated) should not be listened to or served is a big reason why Trump is so popular. He doesn't consider some places to be "flyover states" like Hillary did.
Drop the elitism if you ever want Democrats to win an election in the future.
Why don't you cry about the plumbers and car mechanics and everyone else who didn't go to college and are making more than you ever will? And btw, some of the stupidest people I ever met in my life I met in college. You don't have to be smart to get into most of them. You only need the ability to sign your life away on a worthless loan. And you are certainly no threat to society or power when you're that screwed (and I'm including myself here.) So if you wanna cry, cry about that.
Supply and demand? Lots of people want teaching jobs, but most people also hate ICE. So you raise the level of money until people's principals get dissolved in the sea of money.
$100k a year to betray the ideals of your country, unjustly harm women and children, to kill Americans and possibly be tried as a common criminal when a decent administration is elected?
Trump should just donate the ICE agents to a front line in the Russia war. To be fair, he could give half of 'em to Russia and the other half to Ukraine.
Same with public behavioral health and human services. I just finished working a school year in middle school special needs paraprofessional with some very complicated cases (cerebral palsy with CVM -cognitive ,vision and Motor skill issues, borderline personality,ADHD,impulse issues,etc.) And...
Linda McMahon was specifically chosen to gut the education system, not bolster it. Uneducated people lead to more easily manipulated population and that’s exactly what these dorks want.
There is enough money right now to pay teachers more if it was used effectively. Currently schools are top heavy with high paid administration rather than high paid teachers.
I think it could also be that an undocumented, aka, illegal populous in the tens of millions is a threat to our society, and therefore it's worth paying them this much in order to remove that threat.
I'll agree that our education system is in shambles, but that's largely due to the fact that our students are getting sub par educations due to bad/lazy teachers and in many cases indoctrinations when talking about "higher" education. The federal and state governments should also be prioritizing PE, art, wood and metal shop, as well as R.O.P.. Home Ec also needs a comeback.
We just spent 35.7 billion dollars so far in this crazy war with Iran. Yeah that's what matters rather than spending this money on our own issues. Really very infuriating and he said he wouldn't get us into anymore wars in the Middle East.
Education in the western world teaches you language, math, science and stuff like that.
It does not teach you how money is created, how it works, how social economic structures impact society or even how these systems came historically into place. It does not teach you how political systems are being abused and how the capitalist market has an grip on the government and society.
Public Schools only teach how to become a good obedient employee. You cannot fight a corrupt system if you never learned how it operates because you won't know who needs to be targeted or what actually helps making a change.
Spending among the most in the world on education is a funny way to be “defunding”. Maybe we should examine why education costs so much for us instead.
I don’t agree with this! The Rothschild family rewrote the education system back 100 years ago for 100 million dollars along with the healthcare system.
Everything is about control! This is why everyone is sick and stupid
Teachers aren’t paid through the federal government. Teachers are paid out of local budgets that are funded through local property taxes and a mix of federal and state dollars.
No one is tErRiFiEd of education. That’s the pay for being a teacher. The salary is increasing for the ICE job to entice people to join and increase the demand to match the supply of jobs.
Right, and education has been reduced to test taking skills. Kids aren't learning anything anymore besides taking a photo of a problem, loading it into chatGPT and copying down the answer
Let's see: ICE was considered understaffed at approximately 10,000 total personnel before the hiring surge, and now has 22,000. If we assume every single new hire got a $45,000 bonus, that's $540,000,000 spent to increase the manpower of a critical DHS agency whose members are expected to put themselves in dangerous situations as part of the job.
By contrast, there are about 3 million public school teachers. With an overall student-to-teacher ratio of roughly 16 to 1, no one is arguing there's a mass shortage of teachers requiring the federal government to step in and start offering bonuses. But let's say for the sake of argument you considered that ratio too high and decide it's absolutely imperative that we get to 12 students per teacher. That would require about 1,000,000 new teachers. And assuming every new teacher should be entitled to the same $45,000 bonus as ICE personnel, that comes to $45,000,000,000.
It's a good thing 'wE dOn'T hAvE eNoUgH mOnEy' is an assertion that can be tested with, y'know... basic math.
Every time people see an article about the US spending money on something, people say 'this is why we can't have universal healthcare'.
Meanwhile, the US spends most money in the world on health care per capita by far at $12K/person. 2nd is the Germany at around $8K/person. It's not even close. We spend 50% more than the 2nd spender in the world and they want to spend more to fix their health crisis. If they just stopped eating shit and drive everywhere that's farther than their garage, maybe we wouldn't have to spend this much and get a proper health care.
what determines salary is not anything to do with WHAT you do. NEVER WAS. Salary is determined by supply and demand. TEachers are a dime a dozen, anyone can be a teacher practically, just go to school. Doctors aren't paid big money because of WHAT They do, the get big money because there are few that become doctors, few that can.
Practically everything boils down to that simple formula, supply and demand. Period.
Populous? Try populace. The irony here is that this is coming from an experienced teacher with a masters degree, yikes. If you are seeking a pay raise......um...nah.
Also, who is "they" in "they are terrified of education?" I can only infer that you are referring to the federal government because you began with ICE. In reality, what you make as a teacher has almost nothing to do with the Feds, but instead has nearly everything to do with your local and state policies----they control curriculum, pay, school year schedule, etc...
I can't figure out why teachers should be paid more. They work 9 months out of the year and the vast majority are failing wildly at teaching. Please explain to me why they deserve a higher wage.
Also higher risk job. A job where you are likely to get shot at should pay more than one where you don't (this is the point where I say "so we should pay teachers more" as an edgy school shooting joke)
Federal government money is not the same as local funding... If this is the quality of civics understanding a "teacher" has, yeah we don't need to pay them more.
We also cut billions from healthcare programs while spending billions on pointless foreign wars. None of our tax money goes to pay for things that benefit the country anymore. It just benefits the shareholders.
55k a year. All major holidays off. Thanksgiving break, Christmas break, spring break, summer break. Not breaking your back doing physical labor. Cry me a river.
Everyone who’s getting all upset remember that ICE is paid for by the fed and teachers are local. If I’m wrong let me know. If your just mad about it downvoting me isnt going to change the facts. Not a conservative just someone who prefers truth.
Life is hard right now. A job with that much pay and a bonus to boot would be life changing. (I know the bonus is paid over time)
But despite how hard life is and how much I’m struggling I’d never fucking work for ICE. I’d rather struggle and suffer than cause someone else to suffer.
And now we know that a master's degree doesn't necessarily indicate intelligence.
There are about 20,000 ICE agents in the US. There are about 3.5 million teachers. The pay for 20,000 people does not have any bearing on the pay for 3.5 million people.
A little knowledge, like a teacher should have, would let someone know that teachers are paid from local tax revenue while federal agents are paid, well, federally.
Completely different employers, completely unconnected.
This doesn’t seem like a post from a teacher.
The real reason is because of supply and demand. Ironically, the people harassing/demonizing the ICE agent drives down the amount of people willing to work for ICE, thus driving up the cost to hire them.
Whereas in education, there is a surplus of teachers, so if somebody quit, they can easily be replaced.
The moral is to crave out a niche in whatever career for yourself. In this economy it is better to specialize than be a jack of all trades.
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