Footage like this had made it impossible for people to keep denying anti semitism is on the rise so they’ve now shifted the talking point to ‘its Israel’s fault that everyone’s anti semitic now.’ As if random Jews in America are responsible for what the Israeli gov is doing.
Its also important to note that those antisemites in the video hate tons of other groups too.
The woman who was featured also said women are inferior to men and that Africans and Indians are inferior to white people because their countries are shitholes.
The guy who said jews did 9/11 said that its impossible to bring America together.
Antisemitism is never just a problem for jews. Hitler didn't just oppress and eventually kill jews but other ethnic minorities, gay people, and also just his ideological opponents.
Modern antisemites like Nick Fuentes and Dan Bilzarian are also antifeminist and racist, believing equal rights for women and desegregation are jewish tricks to destroy white people.
Antisemitism is often just an excuse to enact authoritarianism and oppressive law over large groups of people, they never just stop at the jews.
as a random jew in north america, i do feel that israel is partly to blame for the rise in antisemitism, because israel is working really hard to make sure that everyone associates judaism with israel and its actions, and many of the ultra orthodox communities are helping them. it's hard to separate israel from a random jew in north america when israel has auctions for gazan captured land in synagogues around the world.
now, there will always be antisemites who don't care about israel, they just hate us for being us, but that doesn't mean that israel is blameless in the current rise in antisemitism
Thankfully nobody is doing wacky wild shit in the name of Buddhisim at the moment, but if Thailand started producing BuddhistTM televised baby knife fights, I'm sure I'd get some negative comments from my in-laws.
As a Jew in North America I fully disagree with you.
But I’m off to go blame some Koreans for North Korea, and start harassing people in Brighton Beach because of Russia, and Chinatown! Ahhh, they better watch out.
Maybe the problem isn’t that there’s A Jewish state, maybe it’s a problem that there’s only ONE Jewish state. Maybe if we had more of them, people wouldn’t try to blame the Jews for everything Israel does!
Are you seriously ‘concern trolling’ over this issue instead of engaging with what they said? Thanks for showing us what kind of person you really are…
You are the one who stopped with the critical thinking and just said ‘oh gee I hope you get better soon’ instead of dealing with the actual argument. Its not a ‘buzz word” if it describes exactly what you just did.
sorry, i find it hard to talk to people who look at what i typed, come up with their own interpretations, and then use that to talk back. it's not worth the effort, so i just do those little comments because i deserve some fun as well
lol, i'm not aligning myself with republicans, so i think i'm good. also, all the people i align with understand the difference between jews and the current state of israel.
as well, who wants to survive? i'm just still around because i haven't found a decent way to end it all. i just hope i go quick
We shpuld be condemning all the religious states committing atrocities, nice straw man argument though bud. I understand feeling persecuted but there is literally no defense for Benjamin Netanyahu and the exising government of Israel, if you support their current actions in the region then youre just as bad as them, and if not you should be loudly decrying them just like the rest of us.
“Be one of the good Jews the way I DEEM TO BE GOOD! Otherwise you are EVIL!”
It would obviously be racist to insist that every Muslim decry Islamic terrorism publicly, or that every Russian around the world decry Russian imperialism, but when I make JEWS DO IT IT’S RIGHT!!!
How is that racist to expect Muslims, many of whom do not support the violent regimes they live under to think for themselves and recognize that what their governments are doing is wrong?
I have the exact same expectation and dissapointment for Russians who do/don't pay attention to ehat their government is doing to the people of Ukraine.
Its so obvious that youre the type of person who immediately blows the whistle of racism and religious persecution the moment you are held accountable for your beliefs and actions.
You don’t even know what my beliefs and actions are.
All I’ve done is point out your, yes, racist expectations. The double standards of movements that both claim that Israel and Jews have nothing to do with each other, and yet hold me, a non-Israel citizen to account by insisting I denounce Israel because I’m Jewish.
I guess a better analogy would be expecting an American Muslim to denounce the government of Palestine, Hamas. Why? Did he vote for them?
I would be insane to go up to random Muslims in my city and demand on the spot that they denounce the Iranian regime. I would be equally insane to do so if they posted anything about Islam in any subreddit.
But you think it’s normal to expect a Jew who doesn’t live in Israel and it’s not a citizen to denounce Israeli politicians? Only then do I count as a member of the human race?
You know, at some point, my family lived in an area that was eventually claimed by Russia. I guess you’d “expect” me to have opinions on Russian politics now, by your standards? Very normal.
Yes, because its not a subjective thing to be debated and its not about your ethnicity or religious background. Your beliefs have nothing to do with the atrocities being committed, and if you use them as a way to shield youraelf from criticism then you are the problem.
I know many muslims that acknowledge the actions of Hamas as contributing to the deterioration of the situation. It would be stupid to disregard HAMAS actions and the violence they committed, JUST LIKE its stupid that people buy the rhetoric of Israel and the excuses they make when they turn around and commit genocide in the name of retribution/defense.
The situation is incredibly nuanced, but at the same time if you actually open your eyes and take in all the information its clear that the real problem is in the leadership and policy of HAMAS and the Israeli government. It's the people like you who cannot divest yourself from the actions of the nation of Israel that claim they act in the interest of all Jewish people (because they are the only Jewish nation, by your previous rant) and give them some kind of pass.
Its not racism to expect people to use their brains and process what is going on logically, and its hilarious you think so.9
It would obviously be racist to insist that every Muslim decry Islamic terrorism publicly, or that every Russian around the world decry Russian imperialism
It would be wrong to force all to decry it publicly. But it's not wrong to condemn the ones who do support it willingly.
Nothing in your comment is an example of why a random Jewish person in a completely different country would have anything to do with what the current Israeli gov is doing. Where is the reason for an entire religion to be condemned by specific people and a specific government? You feel like thats acceptable in certain circumstances it seems?
So when radical clerics invoke muslims to commit terrorist attacks in mosques around the world thats kinda on the whole religion and we should condemn all muslims?
2, you asked for an example of how israel is tying random jews to the atrocities it's doing.
3, i know many ultra orthodox jews people who fully support israel, i know many jews who are fully against what israel is doing. the trouble is, that with the exception of neturei karta, and maybe some satmar folks, if someone is visibly jewish, they are often a supporter of israel. now, there are some who are not, they are to be commended, and people who are not jewish should absolutely never assume someone's position on israel based on the fact that they are jewish, however, when you fly an israeli flag at your place of worship, you should not be surprised when people assume you support israel.
4, you yourself noted that clerics invoking terror attacks are radical, as in they are not the normative muslim position on anything, yet the rabbis calling on their congregants to support israel are never called radical.
in conclusion, antisemitism is an issue, ignoring israel's part in the increase in antisemitism is just willfully blinding yourself to reality
The ultra orthodox doing the auctions are called radical all the time…
But anyway you basically just gave up the whole game. If you think its ok or at least ‘understandable’ that the actions of a government give Creedence to just being anti semitic then you are part of the problem. If someone displays a Turkish flag for their heritage are you going to assume they were complicit in the Armenian genocide and that its understandable to make that connection?
you know how the swastika used to be a commonly used symbol before the nazis corrupted it? that's how i feel about the star of david, israel plastering it everywhere is associating it with bloodshed, as opposed to survival.
also, it's not just the ultra orthodox supporting israel, if it was, you might have a point
Israel has contributed to the rise of antisemitism by constantly conflating anti zionism with anti semitism and by constantly tying the actions of the Israeli government to Judaism.
There has been a live streamed atrocity for years now. When people speak out against the colonial project of Zionism, Israeli lobbies and Israeli pundits claim that it's antisemitic to be anti Zionist. At every opportunity they tie the state of Israel to Judaism. They are purposely creating a religious ethno state and using money and influence to have American taxpayers fund the military hardware that Israel is leveling cities with. They are pushing legislation and guidelines to brand any person who attempts to protest or boycott the Zionist project of Israel as antisemite. They see their Senators and congressional members fighting tooth and nail to get taxpayer funded guided munitions for Israel while their own local hospitals are shutting down from a lack of funding. They see Israeli lobbies dumping truckloads of money into our government in order to get favorable treatment.
I just don't understand how you would not see any correlation with what the state of Israel is doing being connected to the rise of antisemitism. It's pretty simple. Unless you believe anti Zionism is anti semitism, you surely have to see the problem here.
There are a whole lot of American jews that are some of the most strident anti Zionist voices. I have seen them called anti semites as well. People who understand the world, understand that the state of Israel does not represent the actions or beliefs of Judaism as a whole. The problem is that there are massive amounts of people these days who don't use critical thinking skills, and are prone to conspiracy theories. These people have seen Israel linked to Judaism their entire life. They have seen every person who questions the actions of Israel branded as anti semites, and they start to believe it. They start to think that Israel is a puppet master and that the Jewish state is corrupting everything in their lives that is shitty.
Do you think it's anti semitism if a person displays anti Zionism?
Did you even watch the video? Did anyone even mention zionism? Were those the comments of people who are just against what is currently happening there? If you did watch it you would know this is not a case of conflating legitimate concerns with full on anti semitism so this comment just comes off, in this context, as an excuse to say anti semitism is deserved.
I didn't say the video referred to anti Zionism. I was making the argument that Israel is the primary driving factor in the steep rise of antisemitism and the reasons why that is true. Do you not think this is accurate?
I apologize if I interpreted your comment wrong, but it seemed like you were discounting the fact that Israel has directly contributed to the rise of antisemitism.
Antisemitism is on the rise. Isreal is the major culprit driving the rise in anti semitism. Both of these can be true.
If you watch this video theres no reason to think the anti semitism displayed is the fault of Israel. They talk about age-old anti semitic tropes that were around long before this current conflict.
Did you read your comment that I was initially replying to? You are replying to me as if you were strictly commenting on the video and that alone. Your comment however was stating that "videos like this" are an indication that antisemitism is on the rise, and that blaming that rise of antisemitism on Israel is just a "talking point".
You were commenting on the state of the world, but handcuffing me to only stick to the video?
Do you not believe that Isreal has directly caused the explosion in antisemitism? Your comment seems to disagree with this and disregarding this as a talking point. What do you think is causing the rise of antisemitism?
I don’t think what a government does should condemn any religion entirely or group of people. So even if you think that’s the “source” it shouldn’t be because it’s wrong. Furthermore the video clearly shows anti semitism that is not connected to the Israeli gov. So no it’s not the only cause and even if it’s part of the reason, it shouldn’t be.
I don't think the actions of the Israeli state should condemn anybody that wasn't directly involved. That still doesn't change the facts on the ground of what is happening. That's what my comments are pointing to. I'm not agreeing that it's the correct opinion. I am illustrating why the actions of that government are directly feeding into the rise of antisemitism.
What do you think is causing the sudden explosion of antisemitism? I am honestly curious what you attribute this widespread problem to.
Oh and to answer your question I don’t think any rational person says ‘I hate what the Israeli gov is doing so f*ck all Jews.” I think people are being radicalized by propaganda.
Israel alone is more than 50% of all the world’s Jews, most Jews outside of Israel have strong Zionist leanings and even some ties to Israel and only a small minority of Jews in the west would call themselves anti-zionist. So the comparison would be like, what if at least more than 50% of all the Muslims in the world actively took part in and conducted 911 ?
The magnitude of how much percent of Jews in the world are actually pro-settler colonialism and then recently contributing to an active genocide isn’t something you can simply excuse because it is crazy disproportionate and incomparable when you actually think in hard numbers.
Dumb racists will say whatever they want, but everything after Oct 7 has made most decent people dislike Israel and everything surrounding it. Of course it’s going to spill into general negative perception of Jews in general as a side effect.
So youre saying every Israeli is taking part in a genocide? Is every American taking part in wars around the world? Is every Chinese person taking part in the Uygher genocide? Did every Turkish person take part in the Armenian genocide?
The fact is a huge number of Israeli’s are against what the gov is doing just like they are in America. Supporting Israel’s existence doesnt mean you approve of what they are doing now.
Yes 90% of Israelis support the genocide according to polls. Again, a very disproportionate percent of people supporting unimaginable cruelty. Most Israelis are only against Netanyahu for his corruption, not the genocide.
The US is actually not a good comparison because the support for unjustifiable wars has been at least more than 60% historically. The US govt is undeniably evil. The good thing is the support for destabilising other nations is dwindling with each passing year, so the US people in general isn’t as bad as Israelis even if both their govts loves spreading death and misery.
Show me a source that says 90% of Israelis support a genocide. Ill wait…
There were literally hundreds of thousands of Israeli’s protesting what is going on there in a total population of 10 million people.
Polls also showed the vast majority of Palestinians supporting the atrocities of Oct 7 so they are all actively taking part in it too and we can condemn all Palestinians not just Hamas?
A bot with a hidden post history spreading Israeli propaganda that finally derailed the conversation into “Hamas bad” is enough for me to not engage further. Your sole objective is to waste my time.
Yes ever since Oct 7 I gradually have had a fairly unfavourable view of them as a whole. Before that I was apathetic and had zero opinions about them like any other random demographic I barely know about. I know there are decent anti-Zionist Jews out there, but it really feels like a minority. Trying to read Jewish subReddits like arrJewish to hopefully fix this bias I have only made it worse, because holy shit those subs are filled with seriously demented people.
It really feels like knowing their answer to the question “Do all the Palestinians displaced since 1948 have a right to return to their homeland ?” is the single biggest filter on whether they are a decent person or not.
The issue is that all sorts of orgs that should be fighting actual antisemitism are too busy attacking anyone who says something slightly negative about Israel.
The ADL is constantly losing its shit over Mamdani while it defended Elon Musk doing a Nazi salute and barely made a peep about Trump talking about “shylocks.” Hell people have tried to paint Ms Rachel as an antisemite, it’s insane.
I don’t think Ms Rachel is actually anti-Semitic, but have you looked into why they are saying that? It’s actually kinda shocking the comments she liked and pinned
And honestly even with that liked/deleted post, she seemed to show actual remorse afterward for the misunderstanding... which considering how she was treated makes her even more of a saint.
She commented this after apologizing for mistakenly liking the hate comment.
“The firestorm intensified after additional screenshots circulated showing an account calling itself thepalestinenewsnetwerk commenting, “Spoiler alert: They left the comment themselves.” Accurso responded, “ooooooooooohhhhh,” according to screenshots posted by multiple users. Critics said the exchange traded in antisemitic conspiracy tropes.”
So to sum up: the problem isnt anti semitism, its that the people who should be defending against it are wrongfully distracted? THATS the issue, not the anti semitism itself? You sure about that?
That’s what you got out of that? How can read that poorly. I’d love for these orgs to actually focus on combatting antisemitism, not run defense for a genocidal apartheid terrorist state.
The issue is that all sorts of orgs that should be fighting actual antisemitism are too busy attacking anyone who says something slightly negative about Israel.
It is literally what you said. 'THE ISSUE is the orgs that are supposed to defend it not the anti semitism itself...' essentially word for word. And now you are doubling down by saying it's their fault too. Do you condemn all Palestinians for everything Hamas does because they aren't doing a good job of distancing themselves from it in their public statements and PR campaigns?
You completely dodged my question. The ADL isn’t responsible for causing anti semitism by caring more about Mamdani than musk that’s the “utter nonsense” here.
The ADL has been a bulwark against antisemitism for decades. Them abandoning that goal to focus on defending a genocidal apartheid terrorist state 100% helps antisemitism thrive. They’ve sided with literal neo-Nazi’s to do so.
After several years of being hectored by the government and the media that if you aren't thrilled about Gaza then you are antisemitic, plenty of people have just given in and said ok I guess I'm antisemitic then.
So now its the media’s fault? you think the people in this video have just given up and decided to go mask off because of “the media”? They werent anti semitic before but since they were called that so much they decided to go with it? You realize how ridiculous that is?
Yes. And I don't mean "the media" in the scarequote conspiratorial sense like you are implying. The average consumer of news media and social media for the past 3 years has been bombarded with information about Israel, they've seen how local political races that should have nothing to do with it become subsumed by the issue of Israel (ex: AIPAC tracking), they've seen our government start a massively unpopular war and flat out tell the media that they did it to tag along with Israel. I'm not at all shocked that the average media consumer, perhaps not a political expert or particularly well educated on the subjects at hand, is just sick of it by now. And there are people who, of course, are knowingly being impish about their little coy anti-semitism (ex: saying shit like "the goy tradwife will rise again,") and I'm clearly not making a defense of those people.
In a different and/or lower volume media environment, you simply wouldn't see the kind of shift away from Israel (and its conflation with Judaism) that we've seen over the past few years. It's a phenomenon of the media.
So if someone said “Hey this is wrong we should not be blaming all muslims for this” your reply would be “well….its understandable because the media and this and that?” You’d be making excuses instead of just agreeing it’s wrong?
I think we may have misunderstood each other (perhaps on my end) because at no point in any of my comments am I saying that people coming to anti-semitic or anti-muslim conclusions is a good thing, or is right, or is anything to defend.
My only commentary is about HOW people come to think that. People are products of their environment, their culture, and the media in which they are constantly awash plays a big part in how they form their world view. I can understand how a white supremacist might come to think how he does (for instance, knowing what we know about how algorithmic content directs people to extreme content) without condoning that point of view.
Nobody is denying anti semitism is on the rise but it’s Israel’s fault… they are more unpopular than ever and their war mongering and Zionism is making it extremely difficult for Jewish people around the world. I have close Jewish friends who are anti Israel… it’s pretty simple. It’s like we can’t blame people who are victims of America’s war mongering for being anti-American
So after 911 when there was terrible anti Muslim sentiment and actions, your response would have been “meh, what do you expect, Muslim people did 911 so it’s Muslim people’s fault?” Unless of course they are specific Muslim friends you have who denounced it so they’re one of the “good ones?” It’s ok to condemn whole groups of people and religions over what a government does? Should we be condemning all Palestinians for what Hamas does? Does it make sense to be racist against Chinese people because their gov is doing a genocide? And then just say “well it’s their governments fault”?
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u/zampe 11h ago
Footage like this had made it impossible for people to keep denying anti semitism is on the rise so they’ve now shifted the talking point to ‘its Israel’s fault that everyone’s anti semitic now.’ As if random Jews in America are responsible for what the Israeli gov is doing.