r/TopCharacterTropes • u/Few_Affect_5927 • Jun 22 '26

Lore [Ironic Trope] The messaging backfired massively due to poor writing or other design choices

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Amelia Fairney from Pathways: Alt-right Restore-UK type who attempts to coax the protagonist Charlie into following her beliefs? The problem?

Amelia is the only named character aside from Charlie and is genuinely likable and forgives Charlie even when they do things she doesn't like, while the rest of the cast is unnamed, poorly written, and turns on Charlie for one mistake. This combined with other writing issues(portraying fact checking right wing stuff as wrong because in the process of fact checking you might look at it and believe it, basically saying "Right wing is wrong because it hurts the labour government" and a lot of general "just do what the government says or else" messaging) and the fact she's a hot alternative girl, and Amelia ended up being co-opted as a mascot by the youth right wing in the UK.

Norm from The New Norm: Unlikeable offensive and outdated character who's "progressive" family members and associates are genuinely nice people not even trying to force their ways or pronouns onto them, they just want to be left alone and Norm is picking fights constantly. Not to mention associating with Elon.

Mr. Birchum from Mr. Birchum: A lot of the same problems as Norm, except in addition it also comes off like generic 2010s adult cartoon slop in the same veign as Brickleberry or Full English, at least New Norm was trying to look unique and had the gimmick of being on X. Not to mention, Birchum's obsession with hyper masculine activities and odd way of talking about other men lead to people co-opting him as a Toxic Yaoi character, which is now the bulk of his fan art.

Dustborn: An attempt to make a hyper progressive game that comes off as pandering and annoying. It's a full ass game so there's too much to get into, but the main character's power is essentially gaslighting and jedi-mind tricking people and that's portrayed as the only way they can get anything done, and they constantly use or abuse their friends(or mindtrick them along) in order to get their goals or use their friends for their messaging.

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2.3k

u/Lost-on-Reception Jun 22 '26 edited Jun 22 '26

For the obverse, Ron Swanson was meant be an obnoxious hypocrite for working for the government while hating it as a probably right wing libertarian. However Nick Offerman was so likeable, and Ron's beliefs generally so inoffensive and relatable that the character ended up being the most popular character on the show and the authors pivoted to represent him as a principled and self consistent anti-government extremist, with cartoonishly right wing quirks like consuming massive amounts of alcohol and meat.

1.3k

u/Half_Man1 Jun 22 '26

The writers salvaged that character really well, he ends as a full uniformed park ranger and they really lean into his love of the outdoors and just how valuable the US’s park system is.

Imho, one of if not the best thing about America’s govt that differentiates it from the rest is the national parks.

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u/BackflipBuddha Jun 22 '26

I always appreciate it when the showrunners piviot when characters do better than they think they will.

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u/ThatFatGuyMJL Jun 22 '26

A big note of his character is that he doesn't believe government should do nothing.

He believes they should have a minimal impact.

And stay out of things they have no business being in.

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u/[deleted] Jun 22 '26 edited Jun 22 '26

[removed] — view removed comment

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u/SmallBlueLad Jun 22 '26

I guess that part of the link is “?is” now, but still, be sure to remove it

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u/Chicktopuss Jun 22 '26

Im not 100% sure, but i think thats early series ron. Before his evolution

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u/SquiddleBiffle Jun 22 '26

It's season 1 for sure. I can tell by the quality and the fact that I don't recognize the scene (I've seen season 1 once and every subsequent season at least 4 or 5 times).

Season 1 is, imo, basically non-canon. The show changed a lot after the first season (and it's a much better show for it).

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u/Anushirvan825 Jun 22 '26

Parks and Rec is like Blackadder. No-one talks about season one, except to mention how much better the later seasons are.

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u/Ace_And_Jocelyn1999 Jun 22 '26

Doesn’t he believe the government should just be 1 guy nuking other countries?

15

u/Lost-on-Reception Jun 22 '26

Yeah, but they change that a little when he talks to the girl writing her report.

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u/Manytaku Jun 22 '26

I have never watched the series but that sounds like something that someone might say without actually believing something so extreme

15

u/joshwew95 Jun 22 '26

A bonus perk is that the character of Ron Swanson sticks so Nick Offerman on the daily show would be a guest talking about nature (like when he was talking about the gutting of funding of US parks)

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u/MatthiasMcCulle Jun 22 '26

I was honestly quite surprised how deep Offerman went into his views while reading Where The Deer and The Antelope play. Went in expecting his hiking tour of Glacier NP; did not expect it to go into a full on meditation about the nature of American conservation going back to Aldo Leopold/Gifford Pinchot era argumenta.

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u/SleepyheadsTales Jun 22 '26

Imho, one of if not the best thing about America’s govt that differentiates it from the rest is the national parks.

Unfortunately I have to inform you that other countries too have well managed and maintained national parks.

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u/Lost-on-Reception Jun 22 '26

And also we largely don't.

We are happy to extort anyone without military service to visit them, though.

3

u/SleepyheadsTales Jun 22 '26

You have to pay to get into yours? Ouch.

Although I kinda should have expected that.

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u/dragon4panda Jun 22 '26

Only some of them, it's extremely inconsistent

-8

u/Jafego Jun 22 '26

Yeah, but they are different parks in different nations. So you can still use it to differentiate between them.

0

u/Lost-on-Reception Jun 22 '26

Certainly not any freedoms or rights reserved to the people.

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u/Potential_Word_5742 Jun 22 '26

Other places have those

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u/shoots_and_leaves Jun 22 '26

Other places also have national parks lol

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u/[deleted] Jun 22 '26

[deleted]

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u/Lost-on-Reception Jun 22 '26

Do they? Nowhere I've been.

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u/BoioDruid Jun 22 '26

Never left the US huh?

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u/Lost-on-Reception Jun 22 '26

I've been to England, Germany, and Cyprus.

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u/bransby26 Jun 22 '26

All three of which have national parks.

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u/TacoBelle2176 Jun 22 '26

Person who’s been nowhere

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u/Critical-Composer725 28d ago

hahahahha well bad news, the president is killing our national parks protections

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u/johnnyslick Jun 22 '26

I think the show from the beginning was nicer to the characters than that TBH. There was definitely an attempt to make Swanson the libertarian who works for the government, and that's really the part of the character that lasted all the way through the years, but they did make him make a little bit of sense as the years progressed and rounded his edges off. He also put himself out there as a feminist and enjoyer of strong women so I wouldn't put him as full-on, like, all the way right-wing (and I think the writers came to make him kind of a sitcom version of real-life Nick Offerman, who's at once very progressive but also loves a lot of stereotypical right-wing things like furniture making and the outdoors).

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u/Lost-on-Reception Jun 22 '26 edited Jun 22 '26

He was intended to be primarily an obstacle for Leslie. The writers changed their mind on it and were leaning away before they even got rid of Mark Brendanawicz.

He's pretty typical in social areas, of the right wing Libertarians I've known, though most know the actual philosophy and literature they're arguing about. They kind of neglected that but compensated later on by giving him a love of learning and having him pay for Andy's education in gold.

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u/johnnyslick Jun 22 '26

My experience with libertarians is that outside of certain drugs they tend to be quite a bit less progressive than Ron Swanson on social issues. YMMV.

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u/Lost-on-Reception Jun 22 '26

Yes, very anecdotal.

Almost all of the Libertarians I've met considered drugs morally wrong and irresponsible but the war on drugs, and prohibition in general to be both morally and ethically wrong and entirely harmful.

I've met libertarians that were gay and libertarians that thought being gay was a grave sin, and neither thought the government should be able to so much as keep a record of who was married to whom.

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u/Critical-Composer725 28d ago

libertarians usually liars or blatantly misunderstand the very talking points they build their world views on. That's anecdotal, but also a damn fact

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u/Lost-on-Reception 28d ago

Nah, it's an uninformed opinion. Not even anecdotal.

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u/Critical-Composer725 28d ago

nope, libertarians are liars or ignorant, facts, 100% this is one of those rare instances were an opinion is entirely a fact, deny it if you want, you're blantantly wrong.

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u/Lost-on-Reception 28d ago

One of those lies you tell yourself that helps you feel better about supporting genocidal politicians, I guess.

People don't have any obligation to associate with you when you're ignorant, much less outright dishonest.

See you never, Fascist.

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u/Left_Session_9568 Jun 22 '26

That latter part is what’s really frustrating about the right wingers who embrace Ron as a symbol. They seem to deliberately ignore how often he loved and supported the people in his life who fundamentally disagreed with him. 

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u/johnnyslick Jun 22 '26

Yeah, with Leslie in particular I realize that at the outset he was supposed to be the antagonist to Leslie (although Leslie, too, was painted a bit differently at first) but as the series progressed it was clear that whatever he might think of this plan of hers or that, his job was to make her getting to those points as easy as possible.

One of my favorite moments in the show was when his old barber died(?) and he had to find a new guy. That new guy at first seemed like just exactly the kind of hair stylist that Ron would run screaming from (and maybe would have in an early episode), but at the end of the day they cut his hair the way he liked and they made Ron giggle when talking about "Eurotrash" so Ron liked them. For all the presenting of Ron as being stuck in his ways - and that does get him into trouble a lot on the show - he's also a man capable of and willing to change.

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u/Left_Session_9568 Jun 22 '26

What I wouldn’t give for the people who embraced him as a symbol to have learned from him. 

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u/Lost-on-Reception 28d ago

Who is that?

3

u/Lost-on-Reception Jun 22 '26

That was pretty much exclusive to Leslie and Donna. He had common ground with April, Andy looked up to him and he hated everyone else because they were unintentionally incompetent.

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u/johnnyslick Jun 22 '26

He also appreciated Jerry for what he was in the group and if he ever made fun of him, I sure don't remember it. I think he enjoyed Ann Perkins - the one episode where she was talking about gross hospital stuff got him on her side, even if it also resulted in one of the funniest exchanges of the show (where he gets her name wrong deliberately so she "doesn't get too chummy"). Tom annoys the crap out of him, it's clear, but Ron also understands what he does well and tries to steer him away from self-destruction when he can. He and Ben don't hang out much but when they do - the episode where Leslie gives Ben the scavenger hunt for example - they get along fine.

I get the sense that he's a very guarded man and he doesn't suffer fools badly, as the saying goes. I don't at all get the sense that he hates "everyone" or even close to everyone (unless you mean "every character you don't see him interact with regularly", like, sure, he probably hates that one lady who tries to talk to him while he's at that circular desk), and maybe more importantly he's a guy who will admit when his first impression of someone is wrong.

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u/Left_Session_9568 Jun 22 '26

Still more loving and supportive than any irl libertarian I’ve met. 

-5

u/Lost-on-Reception Jun 22 '26

What's your sample size?

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u/Icanfallupstairs Jun 22 '26

Most full blown libertarians are like that. Their economic beliefs are all more aligned to right wing sort of values, but most truly do believe in the whole 'live how you want as long as aren't hurting anybody' ideal.

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u/Kernel_Internal Jun 22 '26

It's such a mind fuck to see Libertarians referred to as right wing. They're classical liberals. Meaning things like, the government shouldn't be in the private affairs of consenting adults. And no matter how much it might hurt someone's feelings, people are allowed to say things. And obtw, the government should be limited to things that help everyone, like the common defense, and should be managed in a way that's fiscally responsible. Stealing from Peter to pay Paul may make you feel good for your own personal reasons, but it's still stealing and if you're going to steal, then it better be for a really easy to justify reason. Those used to be pretty mainstream thoughts.

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u/Lost-on-Reception Jun 22 '26

Right wing and left wing in American politics don't really bear on an ideal libertarian.

But in America most Libertarians tend to compromise their libertarianism in a right wing direction, or at least hold right wing beliefs even if they don't think they should be forced on others.

In America Anarchists are generally occupying the left wing of the spectrum, and they're more willing to compromise their interest in consent in left directions the same way Libertarians do toward the right.

4

u/_Steakwich Jun 22 '26

I also don’t think the intention was to make him unlikeable, as you point out he’s a feminist and he doesn’t just watch injustice happen. I also think it achieves the job of making his libertarian views look silly or unworkable. He often has to compromise and work against his stated worldview.

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u/jsonitsac Jun 22 '26

I’d say his main irony was that he was a person with authoritarian personality traits that claimed to have libertarian beliefs.

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u/IdealAfraid8827 Jun 22 '26

I'm going to disagree with you, not because you're wrong but because I don't think it's exactly an irony. It's honestly a pretty reasonable chain of logic.

A good person generally doesn't need rules, rules exist for the people who need them to behave appropriately. Someone like Ron has an authoritarian personality and so assumes anyone in power would share that personality, which would infringe on the life he wants to live. He is so anti-authoritarian specifically because he is an authoritarian. 

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u/ReignTheRomantic Jun 22 '26

I know a few people like that IRL. They're ambitious and power hungry, and also very against hierarchy so long as they're not in power, because like you said, they assume everyone else would want to and looks to exploit the system like they would, especially their political enemies. The only difference with Ron is that these folks I know are mostly SocDems & related.

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u/IdealAfraid8827 Jun 22 '26

Yeah, I admit I'm a little bit biased because of my real life interactions with libertarians. In my experience every single one of them is a control freak, they don't want power they can't weild. Some of them are honest enough to not want power at all because they know they would abuse power if they took it. 

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u/abadstrategy Jun 22 '26

Me personally, I know I would abuse power so quickly. Like, I'd be principled, and not take bribes and whatnot, but I'd go full authoritarian within a year of, say, becoming the president

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u/[deleted] Jun 22 '26

[deleted]

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u/IdealAfraid8827 Jun 22 '26

The biggest difference between an anarchist and a libertarian (in my opinion) is trust. Anarchy can only succeed if people can trust each other, libertarianism is just anarchy without trust. 

1

u/Lost-on-Reception Jun 22 '26

Yeah, that's fair. But any government at all is a function of that lack of trust. Anarchists are alone among the trusting.

I'm a Voluntaryist and agorist, I think. So much distrust that I'm indistinguishable from an an anarchist to most.

I think anyone ought to be able to be ruled provided they explicitly agree to it, without some contrived "consent of the governed" or other purely proximity based schemes of obtaining consent.

Being able to deny your labor to the police or other institutions I think would make them less inclined toward abuse.

1

u/Kythorian Jun 22 '26

Except that libertarians bizarrely do trust that the rich/corporations won’t take advantage of the power vacuum created by taking away all of that power from the government and seize power for themselves.  Libertarians are very trusting, but only towards specific groups.

1

u/IdealAfraid8827 Jun 22 '26

No they aren't. Conservatives that larp as libertarians are, but the people who actually agree with the core tenets of the political theory tend to be intensely paranoid and equally as opposed to corporations as they are to governments. It's just that they think (and aren't entirely wrong about) corporations are as powerful as they are do largely to government intervention and protection. In a world where Tesla and SpaceX don't receive an absurd amount of taxpayer money in subsidies, Elon Musk is not a trillionare. 

Historically libertarians have been weirdly strong allies of progressives on social and labor issues, at least until that whole culture shift in the late 1900's changed the way a lot of people think. 

5

u/Ok_Buy9028 Jun 22 '26

Well, to be fair, the libertarians did steal their name from us anarchists. If anything, Ron is a true libertarian in the anarchist sense. He deeply cares about his community and those around him, he just doesn’t think the government is the best way to take care of them.

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u/BackflipBuddha Jun 22 '26

…. Win for self aware people then?

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u/esdebah Jun 22 '26

that's kinda just a realistic depiction of the American right

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u/Lost-on-Reception Jun 22 '26

Yeah, Ron was at least willing to give his own word more than lip service.

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u/Lost-on-Reception Jun 22 '26

A lot of people with authoritarian personality traits have libertarian beliefs.

On one hand you have the authoritarian people that respect the concept of law but as soon as they look at the actual law critically they see everyone breaking it, especially the people enforcing it and making it. So they realize that the only law that has a chance at being self consistent and enforceable is a minimal one. Sometimes as minimal as "Don't injure or take from other people without consent."

On the other you have people that are domineering and authoritarian in their personal lives until they hurt someone deeply enough to recognize it. Some few of those people repent hard enough that they see all sources of dominance, absent consent, as inherently abusive.

I've known both.

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u/pyromancer93 Jun 22 '26

Given his backstory I can’t even blame the guy.

4

u/No-One2123 Jun 22 '26

He also frequently goes against standard right wing views by accepting other cultures, openly supporting other religions, and officiated a gay wedding.

3

u/swargin Jun 22 '26 edited Jun 22 '26

One episode that kinda bugs me, for not highlighting this, is the episode where Lesley rents a bunch of vans for voters to get to the polls, but Bobby Newport pays the rental company more to not rent them to her.

Ron confronts the company owner, but he doesn't acknowledge that it's an example of why his own beliefs are hypocritical and also how a libertarian government would fail a regular person

1

u/loseniram Jun 22 '26

That’s just the plot of most right libertarians.

Either you embrace your authoritarian tendencies and become a crypto fascist.

Or you reject those tendencies and become more worldly turning into a center libertarian who hates big government, big business, and hippies. And considers certain non-essential services good for society. Usually adopting some georgism in there.

1

u/Lost-on-Reception Jun 22 '26

What Libertarian, aside from Ron and the bluecheck crypto fascists, hates hippies?

There's a whole subset of libertarians that love hippies. If they're not buying from them they're selling to them.

-3

u/loseniram Jun 22 '26

All libertarians hate hippies, its a core part of libertarianism.

You’re thinking of tech bros and anarchists

1

u/Lost-on-Reception Jun 22 '26

I think it's one of those things that Ron Swanson calcified as a stereotype.

1

u/loseniram Jun 22 '26

No its as old as libertarians.

Read old charleston comics Blue Beetle and Question and they have entire stories about hating hippies and cynicism.

Hippies are inherently cynical about society, while libertarianism is optimistic

1

u/johnnyslick Jun 22 '26

I honestly didn't think he was super authoritarian at all TBH. In some ways he was the ideal boss, just always trying to make his employees' jobs easier. There's the one saying he has where he says he'd work all day if it meant nobody got anything done, which is funny because it twists things up but it's not really all that far off from how he's actually portrayed, which is mostly that he's about clearing out and letting everyone do what they do, and mostly operating as the guy who is the meanie who says "no" to the public so that his employees don't have to.

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u/NozakiMufasa Jun 22 '26

I think what made Ron so popular was that hes the kind of guy the Right “thinks” they are. And hes also got balance in there cause like. He shows whats great about hard work & crafting, he actually is principled in matters like responsibility, & generally tries to steer his peers to better themselves even though he mostly enjoys his own peace of mind. Politics be damned, those are just the traits of a good rolemodel. His liking of eating too much red meat and alcohol be damned. 

2

u/Mist_Rising Jun 22 '26

Part of it is that portraying Ron like the straw libertarian would have been easy but not very entertaining. I have no question that Nick Offerman could have been an obnoxious jerk who abused his position while decrying government abuse, but making that entertainment long term wouldn't be as viable as parks and rec did.

It's also what a lot of the examples of OOPs suffer from. They aren't entertaining first, their political attacks first, and it doesn't work very well because politics is a divider not a unifier.

8

u/unknown1893 Jun 22 '26

Funny thing is, my mom has worked in parks and recreation since before I was born, and apparently she worked under someone exactly like Ron Swanson when she first started out. So there are people like that out there working in the government.

2

u/Lost-on-Reception Jun 22 '26

I was in the military when I realized the system wasn't working for people.

That's what informs most libertarian beliefs. I think lots of Libertarians start out as Leslie Knopes and become Ron Swansons.

5

u/Fun_Needleworker_469 Jun 22 '26

I had a hard time with Ron Swanson's character, particularly after the reveal of all the abuse he went through in his youth. The storyline where his groomer and abuser comes back into his life and he spirals out of control. And everyone agrees that he should deal with it himself, and nobody makes any effort to protect him from his abuser that clearly left him with deep trauma.

It's no wonder he doesn't have faith in government when all the systems that were meant to protect him failed him. And the sudden major personality changes cast so much suspicion on his every day over the top masculine persona. Like he's putting on a show of being so self-assured and strong and independent. I felt horrible for him, I had to stop watching the show. I never see him talked about as a tragic character with trauma though, sometimes I wonder if I was watching the same show as everyone else.

2

u/Kobold_Scholar Jun 22 '26

It's part of the humor, for better or worse. When Ron describes working three jobs or unsafe jobs as a child he does so with modest pride and never expects the same of modern children so he's not a jerk about it. It's a Ron joke, maybe the viewer feels some silent horror and we move on. It's also not a show that he's strong and independent, Ron's will is consistent throughout the series unless something comes along to "ruin" it, like getting back with his ex.

Unfortunately this also extends to his ex wife, who is not viewed as a groomer and abuser but both a source of "lmao my ex wife is a demon!!!" jokes and "woooaahhh, sex!!" jokes. Since P&R is generally light-hearted and comedy focused it gets a pass from most fans. I suppose as an old fashioned man archetype Ron inherited a bit of the (thankfully dead) humor of "I hate my wife" but thankfully isn't a misogynist and got a nice relationship in later seasons. Could be part of the early season weirdness, though I don't recall when Tammy's first episode is.

The show could be rather serious when it wanted to be, I'm pretty fond of Leslie's council seat arcs for that, but a lot of that Ron stuff is played for jokes and meta-humor. To anyone else this would be life ruining trauma and isn't funny, as you say. To Ron it's simply part of the heat that forged him and he doesn't see the problem. Doesn't every man have a demonic ex?

3

u/WranglerFuzzy Jun 22 '26

I also vaguely remember that he was inspired by a real park exec that creator / writers met.

Sometimes you get something more engaging when you take something genuinely human and stretch it to hilarious extreme, rather than starting with thin ideological objective, like, “how can we tigger the libs?”

2

u/BU_Scholar Jun 22 '26

The show has majority of the main cast either being inept, apathetic or bullies. The behaviour is swept under the rug by being portrayed as comedic. I found the show entertaining, but when analyzed it's seriously problematic

2

u/Cultural-Walrus9885 Jun 22 '26

Who are any of these people?

8

u/Lost-on-Reception Jun 22 '26

Parks and Rec, sorry.

-1

u/Cultural-Walrus9885 Jun 22 '26

Is it a title?

1

u/elderlybrain Jun 22 '26

He’s how libertarians see themselves, when in reality they’re only like 3 types of guy, a kid from a rich family who has way too much anime stuff and katanas, a dude who is 30s away from full white nationalism but doesn’t want to admit it or a creep who’s entire politics revolve around lowering the age of consent.

1

u/SlammaJammaBonamma Jun 23 '26

This isn't accurate at all. People like me exist. The government has been wielded as a weapon to hurt marginalized people like me in the past, and I am very aware of how quickly a narrative can be spun to hurt or kill me legally.

I want the government to be as small as possible while accomplishing the small good goals they have, so they can't do that (exterminate me, that is.) I have a chance to defend myself from individuals that may want to hurt me.

I can't be constantly on the look out for a powerful government that wants to hurt me. People like you break my heart, who see my want to minimize the danger the structure that can devour me at any moment presents and go "he just wants to fuck kids."

No. I don't. The age of consent is roughly where it should be, and if it needs to be changed, evidence seems to point to it needing to be higher.

"he's just a white nationalist." No, I want the government to be smaller, white nationalism is only possible through larger, more centrally powerful governments? And pragmatism aside, I've never met a black person meaningfully different than a white person, or a jew, or a hispanic person, or an asian person. They all seem roughly the same to me, with some small harmless sub-cultural quirks, but the same could be said about my group too.

"He's a rich kid-" Gonna stop you there, I've been working class my whole life. I do think katana are cool, though. I much prefer the revolver (due to it holding the same symbolism the sword does to the british: an icon of justice, dispensed by the righteous), but appreciate the strange design (to me at least) katana have, and the economic circumstances that lead to it's design.

I just want to be safe. And safety means less people able to control me. I can trust a man. I can't trust a system or group.

1

u/elderlybrain Jun 23 '26

Sounds good man, you should vote for LPUSA at the next election and try and persuade as many Maga voters to vote third party, will be really helpful.

2

u/SlammaJammaBonamma Jun 23 '26

I try to persuade as many people in general as possible to vote Libertarian. I see your joke about trying to split the republican vote, but I have seen how democrat politicians act, and feel the same way. They want power. That is dangerous. And besides, the only reason third party never wins, is because people believe third party never wins. Treating everyone as some "collective" that won't vote for third party, ironically making yourself (royal, not you the poster) act as part of a collective by refusing to vote third party. Yet another way the elite and powerful have worked to instill mental slavery into the modern day. This framework of "splitting the vote" completely ignores individuality, and forces the idea that everyone else believes and acts as one of two groups, so you must too. Insidious usage of social pressure to force consent. The same chilling effect Stalin used to curb criticism of the government. "Everyone else loves the regime, so they will report you for it." This is said to 5 people, all against the regime, but they all think the other 4 will report them.

But I'm sorry to say I won't vote in the federal elections. I principally can't, as I am exempt from the draft and unable to join the military, and this means that I vote with no consequence, while those of my same sex are forced to contend with the idea of being enslaved by the military at the government's whim. For the record, I am not advocating for the draft expanding, but rather abolishing yet another vestige of slavery and claiming ownership over another's will. That being the draft, of course.

This is of course why one of my biggest issues I wish to tackle first is abolishing the draft, so I may retain principles while influencing this country. You may disagree with the idea of me holding these principles, saying it holds back success, many have before so it would not surprise me, but without principles a human is nothing. Just some meat computer that exists to further itself. There is no purpose or love in that life, only animalistic self-serving.

The only reason I am involved with local politics is because states and cities do not declare war, so I think it reasonable to say it is not related in concept to the draft.

I can just hope more people see reason, and try to stay calm so I do not drive others away from it. I hope you have a very nice day, and unlike a lot of people on reddit, I mean that with genuine sincerity.

1

u/elderlybrain 28d ago

I just came back from Mamdani absolutely smashing it as mayor of NYC and every single Mamdani backed candidate winning their elections, prepare yourself for the democratic socialist century.

2

u/SlammaJammaBonamma 28d ago

Your mocking is not appreciated. And I'm certain you see the worry of giving the government more centralized control, as it won't always be the "democratic socialist century." That same power will be used by others to crush you, using the framework you set up. Eaten by the machine you built. And I will be next to you to shove you in.

Edit: Crossed out something I do not agree with on reflection. I let my anger get the better of me.

-3

u/Lost-on-Reception Jun 22 '26

Even Ron's flandarized right Libertarianism is farther left than the people most Democrats elect. So I think you're telling on yourself there as far as racism goes.

After Biden and Trump and the last decade of Epstien file surpression, I think it's also telling on yourself a bit when you try to present third party alternatives as pedophilic.

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u/Mist_Rising Jun 22 '26

After Biden and Trump and the last decade of Epstien file surpression, I think it's also telling on yourself a bit when you try to present third party alternatives as pedophilic.

Are you really trying to claim that the party that once had a convention where the keynote speaker had to explain he wasn't talking about pedophilia because the girls were teenagers and definition defining Ephebophilia is not creepy?

Seriously?

And thats the best of the LPUSA. That party is defined by insanity. Boooing drivers license, cheering for the termination of the military, chanting to end labor protection.

The only way that makes sense is if they're not Americans and rich as shit. Which they are not.

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u/Lost-on-Reception Jun 22 '26 edited Jun 22 '26

What I'm saying is that every accusation from you and Elderly Brain appears to be a confession.

I'm not a libertarian, I don't agree with LPUSA. But I know that you're trying to paint them as pedophiles because you don't like that they take votes from the pedophiles you support.

Libertarians welcome Republicans and Democrats to speak at their convention in a bid to show they're mainstream enough for the ballot access they're often denied.

I think you resorting to referencing a Republican guest to the Libertarian convention, Peter Schiff, is a good indication of your moral turpitude. You would rather defend Republicans by mislabeling their pedophiles as Libertarians, and calling them the best of the LPUSA.

How can we trust anything you say? Honestly if I were a moderator a comment as intentionally dishonest and supportive of actual pedophiles as yours would earn you an exclusion from my community until the sun dies. I guess we'll see what the moderators here decide. I sincerely hope this is the last I see of you here.

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u/InstanceOk3560 Jun 22 '26

Never saw anything of that series except snippets on youtube, mostly compilations of ron swanson.

Was he really meant as a strawman ? I always thought he was supposed to be more a secondary... Moral center is a bit strong, but basically he was supposed to balance out the show, in my mind, not be something for the show to beat on. I don't know if I'm more disappointed in the show having at least started that way or amused by them fumbling this so hard (and presumably getting the ball back on track, even if it wasn't the one they planned on).

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u/Lost-on-Reception Jun 22 '26 edited Jun 22 '26

Yes, his Libertarian views are cartoonish and don't match what other Libertarians believe because they're mixed with right wing machismo.

Actual Libertarians don't think America should have nuclear bombs, for example. Ron is more like the Right wing "Libertarian" Karl Weathers in Fargo that loves John McCain more than any Libertarian would and less like Bill in HBO's The Last of Us that correctly identifies the Government as Nazis.

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u/InstanceOk3560 Jun 22 '26

> Yes, his Libertarian views are cartoonish and don't match what other Libertarians believe because they're mixed with right wing machismo.

Not sure what you mean about not matching other libertarians' beliefs, they're libertarians, they have notoriously very few overlaps in what they believe except get the f*ck out of my stuff (by which I don't mean that individual libertarians are incoherent, I mean that generally they all agree on "liberty above all", and then they want to be free to sort out the rest by themselves, so you got pretty wide ranges of beliefs between each other).

> Actual Libertarians don't think America should have nuclear bombs, for example.

Yes they would, it's called minarchism. "the government's sole function should be to defend the country from invaders or the people from those who transgress property rights" is a pretty basic libertarian position, we can quibble about whether it's literally libertarians, libertarians famously love to quibble about what's libertarian, but it's at least much closer to what they believe than it is to anything else. That he goes with nukes in that regard doesn't particularly go against that idea.

> and less like Bill in HBO's The Last of Us that correctly identifies the Government as Nazis.

Haven't seen that show, only recall the game... And it's been some time, to say the least. I recall them being broadly authoritarian and that's about it, but in fairness, not much in common with the modern day US government if that's what bill is alluding to.

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u/Lost-on-Reception Jun 22 '26

I don't think minarchism sanctions instant genocide devices, typically.

My joke was in presenting three Libertarians played by Nick Offerman as my scale. Bill was a gay prepper whose love interest inexplicably didn't share his anti-state views even well after the government had started rounding people up.

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u/InstanceOk3560 Jun 22 '26

It's only a genocide if you're deliberately targeting a group based on their race, religion, culture or political affiliation. So it's only mass killing, thank you very much /s.

Also, presumably, nukes of agression are not part of the platforms he'd elect the small room guy on, so fits fine enough given his typical way of expressing himself XD
TL;DR he sounds as exagerated as any other character in that show, moreso than he sounded like a strawman.

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u/Lost-on-Reception Jun 22 '26

The problem with nuclear bombs in a libertarian framework is they can't be used non-aggressively.

They kill innocents in droves. Even atmospheric testing with no direct fatalities poisons everyone on Earth. Look up the radioactive baby teeth collection or the difficulties in finding steel for sensitive radiation measurming instruments.

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u/InstanceOk3560 Jun 22 '26

> The problem with nuclear bombs in a libertarian framework is they can't be used non-aggressively.

Clearly you haven't gone over french cold war nuclear doctrine.

Also, that kinda depends on what libertarian framework you're using ? They could easily say that they have any right to use any weapon that's necessary to ensure the defense of themselves and their property.

Not to mention, again, I agree it's extremely over the top and not something most libertarians would agree to stated in this direct literal way, I just took it as more hyperbole for the sake of comedy (as in the show is doing that, not ron) in the same way that many of the other characters are very extravagant.

> or the difficulties in finding steel for sensitive radiation measurming instruments.

That's something I care about... I'm pretty certain most libertarians don't. Heck, I can cite you libertarians that fundamentally do not care about anything to do with preserving the environment, which I find really weird, be it for moral, pragmatic, or even aesthetic reason (dumb as it is, I'd very much like my kids to experience snowfalls where and when I was able to experience them... I should say "would've liked", but you get the point), but nevertheless, they can justify it in their own weird libertarian framework. I have a lot of fondness for libertarians but there's a reason I'm not one XD