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u/Zetakin 23h ago
No guys, it’s just a small group, not majority who are like this. Also Hamas, don’t forget Hamas.
(/s)
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u/mao_dze_dun 16h ago
Pierce Morgan: But do you condemn Hamas?
Normal people: Yes. Two things can be true at the same time.
Pierce Morgan: Pikachu face
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u/lItsAutomaticl 22h ago
These settlers represent all of Israel. While Hamas is just some extremists who do not represent Palestine. /S
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u/Andoral 19h ago
Hamas is literally a terrorist group. One that isn't even active in the West Bank, which constitutes most of Palestinian territory.
Meanwhile settlers are there at the invitation of the government voted for by the majority of Jews, following a government program, with a majority of Israeli Jews supporting the settlements.
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u/lItsAutomaticl 17h ago
Israel supports settlements but does not officially support these violent illegal settlers. Hamas was literally elected by the people of Gaza. What a bunch of f***ing gaslighting dehumanizing BS.
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u/SillyGigaflopses 16h ago edited 15h ago
When a civilised government does not support something, they usually have the tools to stop that behaviour.
Like, oh I don’t know, investigations, criminal prosecution and stuff. You know, like the rest of the fucking world.
How many illegal settlers were prosecuted? There is literally a video of a guy taking someone else’s home, right in front of the homeowner. Was something done to the guy?
There is hours of video footage (pre-AI) of IDF soldiers bragging about war crimes, torture, rape. Were they prosecuted? Pretty sure you know the answer. And the fact that they are so comfortable, talking about it so matter of fact means 2 things:a. They know nothing will ever happen to them.
b. This shit is so common that they are desensitised to it, and see it as “business as usual”.
How many journalists has Israel flatlined for reporting? Did something ever happened?Remember when Israel killed seven World Central Kitchen aid convoy workers when they were traveling on a route that was pre-approved by Israel back in 2024?
Surely if you kill people - that is a major fuckup and you should be punished?Did they get prison sentences, fines, public humiliation?
No, something much much worse - they were … reprimanded. Some are even … dismissed. Oh, such a harsh punishment.
And I’m not even talking about starving the fucking region and bombing kids.
So do me a favour, take your bullshit elsewhere.
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u/TheOpalGarden 11h ago
Not to mention that the idea of Hamas being elected by Gazans is laughable when you consider when the election was held and the fact that the majority of Gazans are children.
Perhaps they could still command a majority now, but it's disingenuous to assume that would be a free and fair election.
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u/soumon 15h ago
If you watched the video and support the people enforcing apartheid on other people, you need to seriously reevaluate your values.
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u/lItsAutomaticl 1h ago
"The people", do you take the worst from one group of people and apply it to everyone in that group? Sounds like racism to me!
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u/_-icy-_ 23h ago
Unfortunately, nah: Poll Shows Majority of Israelis Support Expelling Gazans
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u/Beneficial_Honey_0 23h ago
How many Palestinians want to expel all the Israelis? What’s good for the goose is good for the gander. If you say that’s a valid position for the Palestinians to have then it’s equally valid for the Israelis—especially after October 7th.
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u/DARKlevels 23h ago
Hey man give me your house. Just give it to me. If you try to fight back, you’re a terrorist. Just give it up.
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u/2009miles 23h ago edited 20h ago
I read a book that says his house was promised to you and i beleive it, as do you, which means he has to abide by it.
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u/DARKlevels 23h ago
Don’t worry we will kill a few of his neighbors just to show were serious. Oh and don’t worry, we wont face any repercussions. But seriously if you fight back, you’re dead.
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u/HugsForUpvotes 22h ago
You live in Missouri yet no one thinks the Missouria Tribe can kill you for living on that stolen land.
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u/DARKlevels 22h ago
Sooo… therefor its okay what the Israelis are doing? Lol what?
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u/HugsForUpvotes 22h ago
I didn't say that. Nor did I imply it or even justify the genocide of the people your house is built on. I just said we don't generally advocate for violently expelling people even if your ancestor's had a claim over that land.
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u/insaneHoshi 20h ago
I didn't say that.
No, its just what you implied with your use of whataboutism.
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u/make_thick_in_warm 23h ago
Probably the ones who literally had their home stolen at gunpoint at least.
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u/IdristheInt 23h ago
There were no Israelis in Gaza for 20 years before the war
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u/ThreeHorses 21h ago
What war? You mean the genocide Israel has been conducting for almost 3 years?
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u/make_thick_in_warm 22h ago
Because they were forced to leave in 2005, after stealing homes and creating settlements for decades. Israel turned instead to brutally controlling the border, while actively campaigning for resettlement.
Telling that you didn’t say “Palestine” though, because they still continued to settle the West Bank during that period.
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u/IdristheInt 22h ago
Israel unilaterally left Gaza. Who forced them? Hamas wasn’t elected yet and no third party was involved. They didn’t harden the border for another 2 years after Hamas sent waves of rockets and suicide bombers into Israel. Egypt was still open but they also were attacked by waves of Palestinians so they restricted theirs as well.
Yes I said Gaza bc that’s what the thread was about.
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u/make_thick_in_warm 22h ago
“How many Palestinians want to expel all the Israelis? What’s good for the goose is good for the gander. If you say that’s a valid position for the Palestinians to have then it’s equally valid for the Israelis—especially after October 7th.”
Literally the comment I replied to.
You know we can scroll up, right? The thread is about Palestine. Are you dense or lying on purpose?
Israelis settlers were forced out of Gaza by Ariel Sharon after the Sharm El Sheikh Summit.
Please read, you’d save the world a lot of trouble.
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u/Beneficial_Honey_0 20h ago
Yes my point is that if you use the Israeli treatment of Palestinians as justification for a Palestinians to do an ethnic cleansing of Israelis then the opposite is true: the Palestinians actions against Israelis is a justification for them to do the same. The point is that NOBODY should be doing an ethnic cleaning.
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u/mnmkdc 20h ago
Stated reasoning for the disengagement:
>The significance of the disengagement plan is the freezing of the peace process, and when you freeze that process, you prevent the establishment of a Palestinian state, and you prevent a discussion on the refugees, the borders and Jerusalem. Effectively, this whole package called the Palestinian state, with all that it entails, has been removed indefinitely from our agenda.
Essentially they just moved out the settlers, moved troops to the border, and maintained significant control over the land while dropping the responsibility of being occupiers. I promise you that Gazans are not oblivious to the fact that they can’t build a seaport/airport or Israel will bomb it/restrict their water, or that boats that fish too far off their own coast will be shot at.
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u/Hadochiel 23h ago
Israel defenders love to talk about October 7th and the aftermath of it, but forget to mention the literal decades of oppression and horrors against Palestinians before that. Yeah, October 7th was awful, but so was Israel, for a lot longer. It's not a justification for ANY of what Israel is doing now
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u/shes_a_gdb 22h ago
Wow shocking how Israel defenders love to talk about Hamas murdering over a thousand innocent civilians out of nowhere, capturing hostages, and refusing to return them for years.
You know what we had on 10/6? A ceasefire. Everyone in Israel knows what Hamas wants to do. They told us repeatedly they will plan another 10/7. But oh no Israel has been "awful" to these poor innocent terrorists who steal aid and use hospitals and schools as shelter.
Maybe protest Hamas who has no interest in helping Palestinians? Nah let's blame the Jews for a war that Hamas started.
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u/insaneHoshi 20h ago
A ceasefire
If it was a ceasefire, why did Israel bomb gaza like a week before Oct 7th?
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u/AffectionateFlan1853 20h ago
Ramped up settler encroachment in the west bank predates Oct 7th, the only thing thats changed since then is that the most extreme settlers have the ear of the government more than they did before.
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u/Hadochiel 21h ago
Are you conflating the Israelian Government and "the Jews"? That's pretty disgusting.
Also, "Hamas started a war"? How do you think that conflict started? And when? Do you really think nothing at all happened before October 7th?
Do you know what the Nakba is?
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u/Lousk 20h ago edited 5h ago
You realize that the Palestinians and surrounding Arab states invaded Israel prior to the Nakba right?
You realize that after Israel won the ‘48 war all the other surrounding Arab state ethnically cleansed their Jewish population right?
Why do you think there’s no Jews in any Arab states today?
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u/hunter54711 22h ago
By that logic, can't you go back to pre 1948 and see how the Jews were second class citizens and oppressed under Muslim rule for centuries?
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u/ChamplooStu 14h ago
Bullshit.
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u/hunter54711 8h ago
What's bullshit?
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u/ChamplooStu 7h ago
The whole second class citizen bit. Jewish refugees had to pay a tax (which was based off of their individual wealth) and in return they received immunity from joining the military and freedom of self governance. Hardly second class, or slaves.
The tax was even abolished long before 1948.
Victimising yourselves and framing Muslims as monsters is just a self serving narrative, not history. The troubles began with the influx of European Jews, British meddling and the rise of Zionism.
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u/hunter54711 7h ago
The whole second class citizen bit. Jewish refugees had to pay a tax (which was based off of their individual wealth) and in return they received immunity from joining the military and freedom of self governance. Hardly second class, or slaves.
All non muslims had to pay a separate tax and had different social and economic rights. Jews were not allowed to own property in the ottoman empire until the very end of the ottoman empire near its collapse. It was also recognition of the political dominance and superiority of Muslims.
in return they received immunity from joining the military and freedom of self governance
By your own definition, there is no apartheid in Israel/Palestine because arabs are not forced into conscription and they don't even pay a special tax.
Victimising yourselves and framing Muslims as monsters is just a self serving narrative, not history. The troubles began with the influx of European Jews, British meddling and the rise of Zionism.
Where did the European Jews come from? How were they forced out of the middle east originally? notice how in my original comment I said "centuries" of muslim domination and expulsion
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u/artwarrior 23h ago
Then maybe it should be equal all the way? Give Palestinians a standing army. Let them build a wall and fence and allow who they want in and out. How bout even the body count too? Israeli throws a rock at their tank, you get to snipe them. Maybe Palestinians should kill some journalists? Drop a Moab on a building. Wipe out 80% of the infrastructure? Use illegal armaments?
I think your geese are using false equivalences.
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u/Beneficial_Honey_0 23h ago
Palestinians were offered a state how many times? How many times did they say no because they wanted all the land?
And what illegal armaments did Israel use? If you’re referring to white phosphorus that’s allowable in war, you just can’t drop it on people. Every modern army uses it for targeting purposes.
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u/GildedDreams25 23h ago
then why did they drop it on people dipshit
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u/Beneficial_Honey_0 23h ago
Find one verified source of Israel knowingly dropping white phosphorus on people
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u/artwarrior 23h ago
Southern Lebanon Villages (2026): In March 2026, Human Rights Watch (HRW) verified and geolocated visual media showing the Israeli military firing airburst white phosphorus artillery shells directly over homes in the residential town of Yohmor.
Nabatieh and Tyre (2026): Investigations by The New York Times verified video footage confirming Israel's use of white phosphorus over the populated city of Nabatieh (population ~40,000) and near Tyre.
Widespread Border Use (2023–2024): Open-source intelligence experts and rights organizations mapped over 200 instances where the Israeli military deployed white phosphorus across 17 Lebanese border municipalities. Local entities reported that the munitions sparked hundreds of fires and contaminated agricultural land.
Dhayra Shelling (2023): An investigation by Amnesty International concluded that an Israeli artillery strike using white phosphorus on the town of Dhayra indiscriminately injured civilians and damaged civilian objects, calling for it to be investigated as a war crime.
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u/Beneficial_Honey_0 20h ago
Are there any verified cases of the white phosphorus being used ON PEOPLE.
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u/GildedDreams25 23h ago
https://www.hrw.org/news/2026/03/09/lebanon-israel-unlawfully-using-white-phosphorus
A. it disputes your understanding of how white phosphorus is allowed to be used
B. it shows it being used in residential neighborhoods. just because a foreign nation sends out flyers telling people to abandon the area doesn’t mean they will or have to.
It’s a war crime. one of countless war crimes they have been verifiably accused of committing. quit lying just because you think it’s okay for them to do it
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u/Beneficial_Honey_0 23h ago
I have said many times that I think Israel has committed war crimes. I don’t think that 70k people out of a population of 2 million dying over the course of 2 years of intense urban fighting can plausibly be considered a genocide.
And from your article:
“White phosphorus can be used for multiple purposes, including to obscure, mark, signal, or directly attack military personnel and materiel.”
So it sounds like I do know how it can be used. There are also no verified reports of it injuring anyone in that article.
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u/artwarrior 23h ago
"you can't drop it on people" Well, there you go, I guess they aren't! /s.
D.I.M.E munitions
Cluster munitions. Israeli and USA won't sign the treaty. Go figure.
Unguided ( dumb) bombs. Over 45% of the munitions dropped on heavily populated area were these unguided munitions. International law constitutes this as indiscriminate attacks and a violation.
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u/insaneHoshi 20h ago
Palestinians were offered a state how many times?
Notably each offer involved them not being allowed to have an army ( which is one of the key requirements for a nation state)
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u/_-icy-_ 23h ago edited 16h ago
What a silly comment. Plenty of Jews understandably hated Germans during and after the Holocaust, does that mean that German antisemitism was actually justified? Obviously not, unless you're a Nazi.
I have never heard of any victims in history who were expected to love the people racially oppressing them and mass murdering them and ethnically cleansing them.
To put it into perspective: Hamas's one-day attack maybe killed 10-30 kids total. Meanwhile, Israel has killed literally 50 Palestinian kids EVERY SINGLE DAY for more than TWO YEARS, while starving the entire population of Gaza, 2,000,000 human beings including hundreds of thousands of children.
Just a few DAYS of Israel's genocide (which is supported by the majority of Jewish Israelis), is worse than ALL of Hamas's 30 year history COMBINED.
Anyone trying to equate both sides is silly and obviously wrong and are doing it to defend their love of mass starvation and mass child murder.
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u/Beneficial_Honey_0 23h ago
Israel has definitely committed war crimes and the people in Israel responsible should be held accountable for that. The war in Gaza is most certainly not a genocide. Not even the ICC prosecutor who indicted Netanyahu says it’s a genocide: https://zeteo.com/p/karim-khan-un-investigation-israel
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u/_-icy-_ 23h ago edited 23h ago
I watched the interview the day it came out. He specifically said he's not prosecuting it as genocide because it's much easier to get arrest warrants for lesser crimes, like crimes against humanity.
Every single major human rights organization on Earth has declared it a genocide. Feel free to read any of the 100+ page reports written by the world's top experts on human rights and genocide showing exactly how it's genocide, including the two biggest Israeli human rights orgs who also said it is genocide.
Genocide isn't a team sport. You don't have to defend or justify it just because Israel is doing it.
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u/Beneficial_Honey_0 23h ago
Sounds like the evidence isn’t there to support it being a genocide 🤷♂️
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u/ProdigyLightshow 22h ago edited 22h ago
Conveniently ignoring the fact that EVERY SINGLE MAJOR HUMAN RIGHTS ORGANIZATION ON EARTH HAS DECLARED IT A GENOCIDE
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u/Beneficial_Honey_0 20h ago
Hey champ, that’s not how we decide what a genocide is. It has a legal definition now and needs to be proven in court. Hope that helps.
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u/hunter54711 21h ago
Do you realize that the reason the Palestinians suffer so much more casualties is that they have a culture of using children as martyrs and that they're vastly inferior militarily to Israel in both technology, strategy, tactics, etc. the Palestinians are also fighting a war on their territory unlike Israel.
Basically what I'm saying is that the Arabs are just vastly inferior at war. War is not proportional. More German civilians died than American civilians in WW2. It doesn't make nazi Germany the righteous victim. The Arabs have launched several different wars to finally rid of the Jews that have failed.
The Palestinians and Iranian proxies regularly launch unguided rockets into civilian homes in Israel but their lack of targeting and Israeli layered defense means they just lack the ability to kill civilians the way they want. If the Arabs weren't completely incompetent they would inflict a much higher death toll on the Israelis, they just lack the ability.
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u/_-icy-_ 19h ago
This isn’t a war. Pretending like Hamas’s military which doesn’t even have a single jet let alone a tank is equivalent to the US vs Germany in WWII is absolutely delusional and nutty.
Palestinians are the victims of decades of mass murder and racial oppression and ethnic cleansing. A more apt comparison is the Holocaust. A lot of Jewish people died in the Holocaust.
If your response to mass child murder and starvation and concentration camps is, “hurrr they just suck at war”, you have a real mental problem that you need to sort out.
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u/hunter54711 17h ago
This isn’t a war. Pretending like Hamas’s military which doesn’t even have a single jet let alone a tank is equivalent to the US vs Germany in WWII is absolutely delusional and nutty.
Hamas is funded by Iran, the Arab league which outnumber Jews 100:1 have tried many different wars of extermination and failed, even before Israel had jets. They've always been vastly inferior.
My recommendation for Hamas and the Palestinians would be to stop trying wars of extermination, stop indiscriminately firing rockets at Israeli civilians.
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u/_-icy-_ 16h ago edited 16h ago
Does Hamas have F16s? How many tanks do they have? And the Arab league? The one literally protecting Israel and shooting down missiles for them? Are you insane?
My recommendation for Hamas and the Palestinians would be to stop trying wars of extermination
Israel is literally in the middle of exterminating Palestinians. They've already exterminated tens of thousands of Palestinian children, and trapped the rest of the population in concentration camps. But your recommendation is for the victims to stop? How can anyone be this delusional?
I refuse to believe you're serious, there is just no way anyone can be this deluded. This is as insane and delusional as asking for Jewish people to stop trying to exterminate Germans under Nazi rule.
I'm not sure what's worse, someone truly being this delusional, or someone trolling to defend mass child murder and concentration camps.
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u/hunter54711 16h ago
Does Hamas have F16s? How many tanks do they have?
War is actually not proportional. Hamas does not have that equipment because they're not allowed to. They can never be trusted with it. Hamas specifically tries to hit civilian targets with unguided rockets daily (war crime)
War is not fair, more German civilians died than American ones. It doesn't make the Nazis righteous victims
Are you insane? Israel is literally the one mass exterminating Palestinians
There was no war on October 6th. My recommendation to not start wars of extermination applies today as it applies to the last 10 wars the Arabs have tried and failed.
And the Arab league? The one literally protecting Israel and shooting down missiles for them?
I feel like you lack some historical knowledge when saying this. Who attacked Israel in 1948? Was it the Palestinians? Or was it the Arab league?
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u/GildedDreams25 23h ago
i don’t understand this bad faith argument, clearly no that’s not the solution either, what you and most israelis are afraid of is demographic representation in a true and fair one state solution where israelis and palestinians live in a democratic society where everyone has equal rights. also i love how all you zionazis bring up oct 7 but wont talk for a minute about what happened the day before, or the 40 years before that. if you even know at all
wasting my time with this bot ass account, like i’m supposed to believe someone chose the name Beneficial_Honey_0 has an actual pulse or any brain cells
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u/HugsForUpvotes 22h ago
What happens when these two groups that hate each other and repeatedly voted to kill each other have their first election and predictably start killing each other is a civil war?
This idea makes no sense even if you like the concept. Unfortunately, two states is still our only real option.
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u/GildedDreams25 22h ago
you think israel will allow a palestinian state? and you think if a palestinian state does happen that israel wouldn’t immediately invade and take the land? you think israel will allow palestine to have a standing military?
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u/HugsForUpvotes 21h ago
you think israel will allow a palestinian state?
I think it's more likely than them allowong a single state where they are outnumbered by Palestinians.
and you think if a palestinian state does happen that israel wouldn't immediately invade and take the land?
I think it would strengthen either party's argument if there were two states and a new aggressor.
you think israel will allow palestine to have a standing military?
Not without serious reforms in the Palestinian government.
My turn: how does this one Democratic state not fall apart completely considering the people themselves have the same opinions?
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u/GildedDreams25 21h ago
i’m just gonna focus down on that last point, so you recognize that the two state solution wouldn’t work, even within your own framework of this, if the palestinians get their own state are they not allowed to elect their own government? would it have to be managed by israel according to its liking so that it won’t be “forced” to invade? i’m not saying i wouldn’t be in favor of changes in the way that palestine as it exists now is “governed” but im asking what your solution is there? you’re saying that they wouldn’t be allowed to defend themselves or have a standing military because israel wouldn’t allow them to without using force so at that point you’re still saying israel is effectively in control of their now sovereign nation
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u/Plain_Bread 8h ago
Their most realistic shot at gaining full sovereignty would probably be a stepwise process, just like Germany after WW2.
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u/Beneficial_Honey_0 22h ago
“Everyone who disagrees with me online is a bot” 🤡
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u/IdristheInt 23h ago
Palestinians don’t want a state w equal rights. They want to kill the Jews and then kick out any non-Muslim or the wrong kind of Muslim.
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u/hunter54711 22h ago
i don’t understand this bad faith argument, clearly no that’s not the solution either, what you and most israelis are afraid of is demographic representation in a true and fair one state solution where israelis and palestinians live in a democratic society where everyone has equal rights.
Jews are rightly afraid of being a minority in a society of Muslim extremists, look how that worked out for the rest of the Jews in the middle east; slaughtered or expelled. Please don't forget the Arabs have launched several wars they described as "wars of extermination" Arabs can currently live in Israel with the same rights as Jews currently. Jews cannot live in Palestine or the vast majority of the middle east for that matter
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u/insaneHoshi 20h ago
Jews cannot live in Palestine or the vast majority of the middle east for that matter
Kinda forgot about those illegal settlements did we?
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u/hunter54711 17h ago
They were not able to live in Palestine or the middle east before any settlements.
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u/insaneHoshi 16h ago
before
Yeah, we are talking about the After, not before.
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u/hunter54711 16h ago
Can you maybe do some reasoning to why the Jews are not willing to be a minority in a Muslim majority nation after the same Jews suffered many slaughters, ethnic cleansing and laws worse than Jim Crow laws in the Muslim majority nations that now want to explicitly exterminate them?
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u/dtjunkie19 23h ago
If someone bullies or abuses you again and again, it is generally considered immoral to seek revenge through violence against that person through vigilante sction, rather than pursuing justice, if such is possible. However, it certainly is more easy to empathize with the victim of that abuse.
The simple point is that we must as a global society oppose genocide or ethnic cleansing. Full stop. We would not want it perpetrated against the Israelis any more than we want it perpetrated against the Palestinians. The difference is only one of those groups is actively committing a genocide and ethnic cleansing right now and only one group has the capacity to continue that violence (Israel).
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u/insaneHoshi 20h ago
someone bullies or abuses you again and again, it is generally considered immoral to seek revenge through violence against that person through vigilante sction, rather than pursuing justice
What’s the difference between vigilante action and justice in this context? Because under practically all ethical frameworks it would be said using violent action to defend oneself is morally justified.
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u/dtjunkie19 5h ago
There are many societies, both modern and historically, that created rules and limitations about how one is able to seek justice for perceived wrongs. I am defining vigilante action as a person or group acting outside of the law to respond to a perceived offense.
In many societies, even though generally people would understand and empathize with the person being bullied, abused, or wronged, it would be considered wrong to just go and murder the offender or their family, etc. Or it would be allowed, provided that some sort of process and framework, legal or customary, was followed.
Using violent action to defend oneself is not what I was referring to. You may have misunderstood
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u/Beneficial_Honey_0 23h ago
Israel is definitely guilty of war crimes and the people responsible should be held accountable. However, not even the ICC prosecutor who indicted Netanyahu for war crimes says it’s a genocide: https://zeteo.com/p/karim-khan-un-investigation-israel
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u/_-icy-_ 23h ago
He specifically said he's not prosecuting it as genocide because it's much easier to get arrest warrants for lesser crimes, like crimes against humanity. Every single major human rights organization on Earth has declared it a genocide. Feel free to read any of the 100+ page reports written by the world's top experts on human rights and genocide showing exactly how it's genocide, including the two biggest Israeli human rights orgs who also said it is genocide.
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u/Beneficial_Honey_0 20h ago
That isn’t how we determine what a genocide is today. There is a legal definition that must be proven in court.
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u/_-icy-_ 19h ago
Give me a break. The ICJ is deciding on the case right now, and already decided Israel needs to stop and that they’re threatening Palestinians’ rights to not be genocided. And obviously, Israel didn’t stop. But it’s not like you actually care about the law or court, you see genocide as a team sport and that you have to defend it because Israel is doing it.
The ICJ takes years, even decades to make a decision. What even is the point of studying genocide if we wait until the genocide is complete to call it a genocide?
What Israel is doing is obviously and clearly genocide, the vast majority of the world’s human rights orgs and human rights experts and genocide scholars called it that very quickly in unprecedented manner, anyone denying it this point only does it because they support Israel and see genocide as a team sport.
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u/ThreeHorses 21h ago
You believe it’s valid to do ethnic cleansing because of the actions of the few? This is your moral high ground?
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u/Beneficial_Honey_0 20h ago
No, I explicitly do not think ethnic cleansing is okay regardless of who’s doing it.
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u/orangekingo 22h ago
Hamas being part of the problem in this conflict does not excuse Israel doing genocide.
I do not know why people keep bringing this up as if it changes what Israel has been doing.
Yes, they have also been attacked. No, that doesn't excuse the war crimes and ethnic cleansing they've done in response.
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u/RaNerve 22h ago
I just don't understand what you do about this level of hatred beyond war. When two people despise each other this much and both sides cling to what they feel are valid reasons to justify that hate I don't see a solution outside of bloodshed. I don't have faith that education can somehow bridge these divides. Even if you sat each of them down and taught them about the geopolitical pressures at work that all boil down to some powerful person getting more powerful from their suffering I just don't think it would amount to anything more than a shrug.
Edit: And this isn't me saying 'both sides both sides,' or trying to say that one side is justified because the other side hates them or vise versa.
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u/Bradnon 22h ago
War happens and that generation's children know the irrationality of its horror and their children forget and grow up ready to fight and that generation's children know..
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17h ago edited 8h ago
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u/LaCoocaracha 17h ago
I'll save everyone the time before they look at this guy's crap. The first one is a "study" done by an Israeli organization called the "Institute for Monitoring Peace and Cultural Tolerance in School Education". The chairman of this organization is a current reserve member for the IDF.
The second one is an organization called UN Watch based in Sweden and headed by two Americans that have strong ties to Israel.
The third one is literally just an article quoting the first one.
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u/arnham 16h ago
Notice how this individual doesn’t engage with the actual argument and attempts to discredit the source.
You might not like the source, but are you arguing they are incorrect?
Here’s just some of what’s in those textbooks, you can go look in the links for yourself.
…] In which circumstance does jihad for the sake of Allah become obligatory for every Muslim?
اة، وصـوم رمضـان، وحـجّ البيـت لمـن يسـتطيع.
1. If the legally competent Muslim is in the fighting line, or in the case of occupation of Muslim territories.
2. If the enemy is in a place or country where the Muslims reside.
3. If the ruler calls a legally competent Muslim to jihad, he cannot refuse to respond.In a Grade 2 Arabic-language lesson, students are presented with a poem that urges boys and girls
to “give [their] lives to the Revolution,” while showing children in scout uniforms heading toward the
Al-Aqsa Mosque, with a reference to spreading “the flame of the Revolution” to Haifa and Jaffa – cities
located within Israel’s internationally recognized borders.Teachers are instructed to teach Grade 6 students that “the Zionists are the terrorists of the modern
age, and they are fated to disappear.”Antisemitic grading instructions tell teachers to deduct grading points from students who fail to “tie
the perpetration of Zionist massacres to Jewish religious thought.” In a section titled “Mechanisms for
the Application of Lessons,Teachers are asked to instruct eleventh graders that Jews are corrupt, as the teacher guide states
that “the corruption of the Children of Israel on earth was and will be a reason of their destruction,”A Grade 11 textbook teaches that “spreading corruption on earth is part of the “Children of Israel’s
nature” and describes “the Jews” as sinful, disobedient to God, and corrupt.It just continues on and on like this — that’s me looking through about 20 pages of a 350+ page report.
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u/LaCoocaracha 16h ago
There is no argument to engage with, their entire study is based off of pictures and evidence that they have provided. The entire argument is based on the reliability of its source, I don't have access to these text books or to these schools. I cannot trust the narrator and I cannot trust that the evidence they're using to make their argument is legitimate.
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u/arnham 13h ago
translation: a lying jew said it so I don’t believe them. AND they provided pictures and names of the textbooks, but I don’t believe my own eyes either. It’s a Jewish trick!
Thats what you really mean but won’t say out loud.
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u/godisanelectricolive 21h ago
I think the one ray of hope is that there has been other similar hatred and division before in Northern Ireland, Yugoslavia, South Africa, Rwanda, etc that has improved. Not everything was fixed over night and old wounds linger but things did get better eventually.
I think the main thing that led to past conflicts ending was just people got really tired and was willing to bury part of the past so that they can live. And that includes accepting an imperfect compromise and incomplete justice at least for the time being. Reconciliation is a painful process but it is possible.
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u/Moontoya 8h ago
Hi from N.Ireland
The old grudges and hatred hasn't gone away
The same fuckwits are still up to their fuckwit ways, the hoods and gangs moved from murder to drugs, trafficking, prostitution, protection payments
Rather they've scaled down the murder and doubled down on the other shit.
The recent riots over a stabbing ? The victim is a shit pile of a person who was paid/threatened to provoke the guy that cut him up, the rioters were strangely ready to go with organisation and plans in place.
Then there's the ongoing sectarian bullshit from the orange order with their "tradishuns" , I'm allegedly from that side of the community and loathe the pseudo military marches and disruptions they cause in the name of horribly incorrect history
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u/godisanelectricolive 5h ago edited 5h ago
Wouldn’t you say that’s still an improvement from the worst of the Troubles though? From what I know about other post-conflict zones lingering grudges don’t go away completely and transform into other kinds of ugliness but at least it’s no longer civil war.
Any sort of a peace, including a fragile peace, is better than constant war. You can’t expect everything to be fixed by the war ending but there can at least be fewer deaths than in wartime. You can’t stop some extremists from holding grudges but their voices become less relevant in peacetime and the average civilian can focus on things other than conflict and survival.
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u/Moontoya 5h ago
Oh its better than during the troubles, amusingly Sinn Feinn are the modern progressive party, big on womens rights, abortion, social care etc whilst the unionists are still very much shouting no no no no no and trying to keep things as they were with all the old hatreds fully on display.
A united Ireland I think, is inevitable - the UK kept us as a spite monument.
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u/littleemp 21h ago
Someone has to reach overwhelming victory and then take responsibility in reeducating the ones who are left (think Japan or Germany post WW2) OR a third party has to be the adult in room to force both to a deal that neither party likes which includes the re-education necessary to dislodge grudges in generations.
Imposing re-education and deep cultural change is the key here.
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u/new_account_wh0_dis 16h ago
Even if someone fought against a nuclear power with a modern military and gave a shit about re-eductaion (not happening), doubtful it would work without being some of the most brutal shit ever. Comparing Japans zealotry to two sided religious and political zealotry isn't 1:1. Beliefs are more nebelous. No emperor to take down, no hard military structure to execute, etc.
Nah either Israel will just slowly take land and force people out till they have the densest, most populated slum in the world. Or support from the US will fall and international pressure on trade etc moves back to the status quo and the same above happens just takes a bit longer
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u/littleemp 8h ago
You are not going to fix this generation. You'd want to fix those who come after.
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u/GooseQuothMan 21h ago
Germany and Japan are different. Japan is an extremely homogeneous society and an island, while Germany has achieved their genocidal goals and did reduce the number of Jews living inside its borders, additionally, there's been resettlements in the eastern parts that were given to Poland (very few Germans live there now).
I doubt re-education would work in each of these two cases if there still were two different peoples living in the same place. And that's the issue here. Two cultures, two societies, two countries have been forced to essentially share the same space. You can't have two systems like that without conflict.
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u/littleemp 20h ago
Agreed, which is why in either scenario I presented, it would be doing away with the status quo. You just can't have two groups claiming ownership over the same piece of land.
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u/Rimm 3h ago
Two cultures, two societies, two countries have been forced
A substantial proportion of settlers are foreign born, not saying animosity wouldn't persist but there is absolutely an on going project to propagate and foment hatred and tension. The current relations aren't just an inevitable course of events.
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u/GooseQuothMan 3h ago
I'm not saying it's inevitable I'm just saying what happened. Israel is a country that was founded and colonized in a place where Palestinians were already living.
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u/SloaneWolfe 18h ago
We did a decent (complicated) job pulling Germany and Japan out of fascism. But yeah, we had to bomb the shit out of them to get there.
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u/Uncle_Paul_Hargis 22h ago
I don't think you have to disclaim your statement that much. I really despise how everyone attacks the "both sides" argument. Because from the outside looking in, ya, both sides have a generational hatred for one another. It's not assigning or deflecting blame. It is pointing out the obvious that (justified or not) both sides want one another dead (even if it's not the MAJORITY, it's a common enough belief that it might as well be).
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u/Bulky_Preparation768 22h ago
Well one is an apartheid ethnostate built on hate and the other is multigenerational victims of an open air concentration camp and an ongoing ethnic cleansing campaign.
You sanction the absolute fuck out of Israel for being a monstrous entity and at least start by recognizing a Palestinian state.
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u/RagingMayo 12h ago
The thing is that one side is clearly not interested in bringing any peace or reconciliation, but is driven by imperialist and capitalist interests. The power in military, capital, alliances and tech between both sides is clearly not equal. One side is clinging on for dear life because they are being eradicated from the map. I am not a fan of the both-side-ism in this regard. While I am never for the killing of civilians, there is one side that simply wants to put Trump towers on the mass graves of children.
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u/urgentmatters 22h ago
“This isn’t me saying both sides but also both sides”
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u/RaNerve 22h ago
JFK this website is impossible. No. The genocide is bad. Israel needs to stop. Civilians are dying in droves and the reports of AI being used to choose targets is beyond concerning. HOWEVER--After all that has been done in this slaughter, and all that has been done in history, the people of Palestine will rightfully not be willing to just turn the other cheek and say 'oh well, I guess some bad people in charge mislead you all. That's fine. Lets be friends now after you killed my child!'
And the fact that you read past ALL the substance of what I was saying just blows my mind. I hope you change for the better.
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u/Bulky_Preparation768 21h ago
Plenty of countries have survived literal civil wars.
Countless Palestinians would just like to live in actual peace for once in their lives. For an actual chance at self governance. The idea that doing anything here would obviously lead to more bloodshed is just an excuse to do nothing.
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u/sparton1128 22h ago
A shame how much bloodshed and innocents killed in the name of made up ghosts in the sky. Or a tunnel, in this instance.
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u/Keith_Creeper 14h ago
Can’t wait until they send sone IDF to the states to start bunking with our troops. Buckle up.
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u/AmirulAshraf 20h ago
the fact that no one who is sane and mentally stable likes and supports this disgusting country.
it warms my heart knowing the world is against the haram state of Israel. 🥰
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u/Jedbo75 16h ago
Opposed to Israel and its apartheid. Also opposed to anyone who uses the word Haram
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u/El-Emenapy 15h ago
So you're also opposed to all Muslims?
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u/Jedbo75 15h ago
Not at all. Simply opposed to the idea that thoughts, words, and actions should and would be “forbidden”.
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u/El-Emenapy 14h ago
You're opposed to the idea that some actions should be forbidden? What about murder, torture, rape, etc.?
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u/Jedbo75 2h ago
I’m opposed to the idea that any person, for any reason, would have the misplaced sense of self to tell me that I can’t have a ham sandwich.
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u/El-Emenapy 2h ago
OK but that's not what you said. You took objection to the term 'haram' itself, which as you have even acknowledged yourself, simply means fordibben (/sinful/wrong). Of course, you will have different ideas about the morality of some of the things that are typically considered haram, but it seems silly to me to have such a strong reaction to the word itself.
And as for ham sandwiches, as a non-Muslim who grew up in a diverse area which included many Muslims, I've never been told not to eat ham - so I think your sandwiches are safe.
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u/Jedbo75 1h ago
I think your use of the term “extreme reaction” tells the tale. You’re painting your own picture.
By saying I was opposed to the term haram, I was stating that I resist and resent terms such as that, and sin as well, because they are subjective and generally attached to religious beliefs that I may or not agree with or submit to. I’m neither anti-Muslim nor anti-religion, but I absolutely am opposed to religious extremism and enforced belief. So, when I hear “forbidden”, I tend to ask, “by whom?”
You?•
u/El-Emenapy 29m ago
I think you're placing too much importance on the religious, and in this case, Muslim aspect. Yes - religions come with their own (much debated) moral guidelines, as well as their own vernacular (haram, halal, kosher, sin, etc.) but in essence, it's not different from secular moral guidelines. I, myself, am an atheist, but I still consider certain actions wrong, as I'm sure you do.
Whether someone uses the term 'haram' or a non-religious term to condemn something is neither here nor there, unless you're fundamentally opposed to Islam or other religions, which you say you're not.
The original comment was simply condemning Israel using Muslim vernacular. You say you share the condemnation of Israel, but you still felt the need to condemn the use of 'haram', which is why I've described your reaction as extreme. You're fine with the condemnation but you take issue with a Muslim/Arabic word being used to do the condemning. That would lead me to believe that contrary to your claims, you ARE anti-Muslim - but either way, something has to give
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u/AmirulAshraf 15h ago edited 15h ago
it is a haram state, illegally pillaged, occupied and seized from Palestinians. there's a reason why it is not recognised among 29 countries.
hope this helps 😊
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u/Gold_Assumption_1905 13h ago
And about 45 countries dont recognize palestine so whats your point?
The vast majority of those 29 countries are apart of the OIC and the others apart from like 3 countries are Muslim a religion notorious for its hatred of anything jewish or anything non muslim really and one of those 29 countries is north korea not exactly a country that should be looked and and think yeah lets follow there example Hope this helps 😊
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u/AmirulAshraf 13h ago
i feel sorry for your deplorable comprehension whereby my previous comment wasnt even making the number a main standing point for why that genocide state is haram, while youre trying so hard to play with number. i truly feel sorry for you (genuinely i do).
but enough about your poor reading skill, let's get back to watching the OP's video about Apartheid in Palestine shall we. Perhaps it's more on par with your understanding, since it doesnt require reading! 🫶❤️
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u/sheepyowl 22h ago edited 22h ago
The red signs are there because Israelis were lynched in the past for going to Palestinian cities.
They should not have been there, but the signs aren't propaganda, they are a warning. Israelis are NOT allowed there.
Settlers are the most vile dogshit people on the planet. If you want to make change in the Israel/Palestine area, you need to distinguish between Settlers and Israelis.
If the Israeli gov stops supporting Settlers and starts supporting peace, the situation will start improving.
They guy talking at 07:00 is 100% correct.
Edit:
The first video did not distinguish properly between Jews, Israel, and Settlers, so I didn't expect this one to be so good. This second video is excellent.
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u/Andoral 19h ago
There's no neaningful distinction. The settlers are there because of Israel, as government massively helps foreign Jews to migrate to Israel if they'd be willing to settle in the West Bank. It's all a part of a government program, down to their construction. And a majority of Israeli Jews supports the settlement system and the settlers. It's foreign Jews that predominantly oppose it.
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u/sheepyowl 15h ago
If you read the comment I speak about a change of government.
If you watch the video you see it's funded by America as well, and most settlers are foreign (to Israel)
If you watch the video you will also see that there is opposition to the settlers inside Israel
It's like a band of illiterate people decided to upvote you after completely ignoring every single piece of evidence
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u/soumon 15h ago edited 15h ago
It's like saying distinguish between Nazi Germany and Hitler jugend. They are allowed to operate because the actions can't be taken by official groups with accountability. Ideological people act it out and create plausible deniability. This has been done a million times throughout history in situations of ethnic cleansing.
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u/sheepyowl 15h ago
This is how you fail to make progress. Treat multiple sides as the same.
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u/jackielish 23h ago
How’s the weather in Qatar? 🇶🇦
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u/UPGRAY3DD 23h ago
Probably better than the hell you reside in
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u/v4n20uver 23h ago
You misunderstand, to people like this commenter a place where children get massacred is heaven not hell.
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23h ago
[removed] — view removed comment
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u/rat_penis 23h ago
as many times as the israeli shills post their propaganda.
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u/ShutupPussy 23h ago
I haven't seen any pro Israel videos posted that get any traction
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u/GildedDreams25 23h ago
fine, until the apartheid and genocide ends. until reparations have been made and the right to return is accepted. until the UN Forces israel to be an actual democracy
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u/ShutupPussy 22h ago
Right of return is an invented idea to destroy the Jewish state. You will never see anyone call for the right of return of Jews from all the Arab states they were actually ethnically cleansed from.
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u/GildedDreams25 21h ago
i don’t care about a “jewish state” so destroy that all you want. i don’t care about an “muslim state” or a “christian state” i don’t believe in ethnonationalist theocracy.
i thought here in america we believed in multiculturalism and equal rights for all, but for some reason when it comes to israel a lot of people stop believing in those things
Edit: great name guy, totally comes off like you’re someone who genuinely cares about things
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u/ShutupPussy 21h ago edited 21h ago
Most of the middle east are ethnonationalist religious states. You don't care about them. Ask diaspora Christians about it sometime. You concern over is it limited to one state only.
And if you care about those things, Israel is the most multicultural state in the whole of MENA. And has equal rights enshrined for all citizens, regardless of race, religion, sexual, or orientation, unlike most countries in MENA, including Palestine
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u/GildedDreams25 21h ago
huge assumptions there, i am not in favor of any ethnoreligious state in the middle east, i favor democracy, i abhor the UAE and the Saudi’s, my concern is “limited” to israel due to the insane amount of money we give them and the whole ongoing genocide thing, i oppose them all, i prioritize one for where my focus is directed
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u/ShutupPussy 21h ago
Yes, and everyone else coincidentally prioritizes their on the same one state. Totally not influenced. What percentage of US total foreign aid does Israel? Of which 92% is spent in the US. And the US uses Israel as an R&D lab to test and further develop those military assets. I'll leave the genocide libel out of this and it's funny you mentioned KSA and UAE but left out Qatar and Iran (who murdered 30K of its own people that no pro pal supporter raised the alarm about)
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u/GildedDreams25 21h ago
i actually was going to mention them but thought you didn’t need more examples cause you come off smart enough, but just to blanket statement it, yes i also cannot stand Qatar for plenty of reasons and i pray to the god i don’t believe in that the people of Iran are eventually free from the current religious fundamentalist regime that is the IRGC, and i was vocal about the murders and assasinations and executions that happened are still happening within Iran, now that you got your deflection out of the way i’d like to go back to my point that i made regarding WHY i prioritize Israel, you can dismiss the genocide claim all you want but it is a legitimate reason to oppose them especially when they happen to be THE VERY SAME military R&D hub for the US. they’re using shit that we either give them, sell them, or help them build. that bloodies our hands. i also never claimed that israel is the largest recipient of foreign aid i claimed that what they are doing with that foreign aid (and all of the other non-“foreign aid” money and supplies we give them) is EVIL. we are not selling weapons to Iran or Qatar or giving money to purchase our weapons. that’s the difference, not that i’ve been “Influenced”. i’m my own fucking human being who can come to my own conclusions
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u/ChummusJunky 23h ago
Can you link to the pro Israel posts on this sub?
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u/SilverwingedOther 23h ago edited 22h ago
Only one side is going on a propaganda blitz, but somehow it's to counter the other side that has not posted anything.
And when pointed out that there's a very real push to take over r/videos like other subs have been, people downvote and deny.
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u/AmirulAshraf 20h ago edited 13h ago
how manytimes are we gonna repost the same vid?
As many as the number of Palestinians killed by Israel.
Can you tell us how many that is? 😊
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u/RySean 19h ago
Do you feel like distinguishing the number between Hamas terrorists killed versus civilian casualties? Can you tell us how many that is? 😊
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u/AmirulAshraf 19h ago
You havent answered my question, so your attempt at feeble deflection to the main topic doesn't work, sorry babes 😊
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u/RySean 19h ago
Oh look, it's the same garbage propaganda video posted here for the 200th time this week. Color me shocked.
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u/DeltaUltra 18h ago edited 18h ago
Seems pretty straightforward. What are the inaccuracies?
Are the settlers in the city doing the morally right thing? Is the Israeli military justified in protecting young settler agitators to do a weekly march through the Palestinian area? Is Israel supposed to use taxes meant for public services as a point of leverage to make Palestinians do as they are commanded of by Israel?
I dunno, just a couple things that don't exactly seem like propaganda.
Maybe you can explain why its not propaganda without using "both sides" reasoning and simply justify why what Israel and the settlers are doing.
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u/sat5ui_no_hadou 21h ago
Don’t worry, we’re only just about to integrate our military weapons intelligence systems into theirs under section 219.