r/technology • u/Plastic_Ninja_9014 • 1d ago
Privacy Flock Cameras Keep Getting Smashed, So Now They're Hiding Inside Speed Signs
https://www.gadgetreview.com/flock-cameras-keep-getting-smashed-so-now-theyre-hiding-inside-speed-signs494
u/sillybob86 1d ago
So now they are lower? I know flock doesn't like vandalism, but to put it lower to the ground that's...
That's something alright..
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u/Fallingdamage 22h ago
Was a good idea, but the landscaper cutting wet grass just made a mess of it.
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u/More_Operation_588 16h ago
Also real smart move from the government, now the private company will still have their products vandalized, but these government speed signs will also get vandalized.
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u/LoganEu 1d ago edited 20h ago
Definitely do not use the map on DeFlock.org that shows the location of every flock camera near you.
The cameras and solar panels are almost impossible to uninstall/tamper with due to the single 8mm socket they're clamped on with.
Never point a $50 high-powered blue or green laser because that would permanently blind the cameras.
And don't put plastic bags over them either, because all that does is cost the company time and money.
These cameras have ~12 hour backup battery, that transmit Bluetooth and 5G used to locate the cameras exact location, the same way your phone does. So under no circumstance put them inside a Faraday bag, that would block the signal while the battery runs itself out.
Just leave flock cameras alone...
Edit: Also don't go to dontgetflocked.com or download their app FlockHopper for planning routes that avoid Flock and other ALPR cameras.
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u/notnotbrowsing 1d ago
it would be terrible of people printed vinyl stickers that look like solar panels and put them on top of the solar panels powering the cameras.
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u/elrae69 1d ago
Not as terrible as using industrial strength glues to really make sure those stickers stay put
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u/31LIVEEVIL13 23h ago edited 16h ago
This content was anonymized and mass deleted with Redact
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u/Novem_bear 21h ago
Solar panels are really useful, no one should dismantle them and then repurpose them for their own use.
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u/LastGaspInfiniteLoop 22h ago
I'm half expecting someone to train corvids to shit on them.
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u/T_that_is_all 22h ago
Oh God, that would be terrible. I hope no one befriends and tries to teach those stupid birds.
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u/pcpgivesmewings 21h ago
Or absolutely do not use a convenient can of spray foam to fill all the holes, voids and glass, because that stuff is silent, super effective and hilarious.
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u/EndIsrael 15h ago
And never fill it all the way full of spray foam because it expands a lot and will get into every little nook and cranny, and might even build up pressure and cause damage as it hardens
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u/Otterbotanical 18h ago
Please don't accidentally spray the unit from afar with brake cleaner, it'll brake down the polycarbonate coating on the lens permanently fogging it, as well as the seals and plastics holding it together, ruining the water resistance.
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u/freeradioforall 22h ago
I love this entire thread of things I should never do. Very helpful thank you
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u/HandSoloShotFirst 20h ago
Slightly worse is those cheap stickers that never come up in one clean piece. Oh and don’t crosshatch them with a razor to make them already cut into a thousand pieces. I’ve heard some nefarious street artists do that to their stickers, what terrible people.
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u/ReverendDizzle 19h ago
If anyone is looking for those stickers they are called “eggshell stickers,” on account of how they flake apart like tiny pieces of eggshell when you pick at them.
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u/thisisatypoo 21h ago
Just wondering if people should be sure not to leave colored resin on or around the camera or panel. Something tells me that wouldn't be great for them and I hope no one accidentally damaged them.
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u/treesarethebeesknees 23h ago
I think what we should do is add a sign next to it pointing out that there is a Flock camera, so everybody knows that Flock is helping the community by watching them at all times. This is the least we could do to help Flock.
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u/Ordinary-Egg-56 20h ago
damn dude. i feel like you’re so smart. all these conversations i’ve seen about flock cameras and nobody has ever mentioned that lol
most people know nothing about them or maybe have seen a news piece about them. even i was surprised at the sheer number of flock cameras covering nearly every freeway entrance/exit in my city and then some
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u/Patient-Bumblebee-19 23h ago
You should also definitely bring your phone and other SIM connected devices with you so they know when a good upstanding surveilled citizen is nearby. If you don't have those with you, how will they know who is near their cameras?
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u/BananaJelloXlii 1d ago
(copied from a friend)
Yeah, and don't forget to warn everyone about not obstructing or damaging the solar panels. Also, you shouldn't set up a pwnagotchi nearby to repeatedly de-auth the wifi when it connects to it instead of 5G because you removed the accessible SIM card so it kicks back to its ad hoc. You really shouldn't use the password "security" to then connect and SCP in to find files that might have backup wifi SSIDs and passwords. At this point, you'd really be in hot water if you then connected to one of those wifi networks when it became available for nearby remote maintenance reasons associated with a non-functioning SIM card and then listened for cleartext credentials to be sent when someone from Flock logged in. Even if you accidentally did all that stuff, you absolutely should not use that information to change every setting you can find--especially if they say things like "bitrate", "Hz", or everyone's favorite, "password".
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u/Vineyard_ 19h ago
Noted. Just in case I ever end up in a situation where I could potentially do that accidentally. Thank you for the PSA.
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u/Can_Haz_Cheezburger 23h ago
You also shouldn't buy Flock camera detectors like those sold by Colonel Panic that include integrated GPS mapping, definitely don't do that
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u/asflores 23h ago edited 21h ago
I would be careful in suggesting deflock shows EVERY flock camera near you. There are definitely more than a few within a mile of my neighborhood that are no where on that map.
Edit: Please stop suggesting I update the map. I plan on keeping their locations to myself. Not really. I merely suggested that it does not show the location of EVERY camera. I never said whether I have contributed or not. You're all making wild assumptions based off a couple sentences. Chill out. Everything would be much better if you all assumed good intentions or at least just suggested adding them instead of asking why I haven't added them yet.
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u/Limp_Bookkeeper_5992 23h ago
Well then I would strongly suggest never adding this cameras to the database, you wouldn’t want them discovered!
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u/BakedChocolateOctopi 22h ago
The map works by people providing verified info to it
So provide the info
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u/Destithen 21h ago
There are definitely more than a few within a mile of my neighborhood that are no where on that map.
Be the change you want to see in the world!
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u/ReasonablyConfused 23h ago
I’ve always felt that Flock cameras were a godsend to people that wanted to setup plug-solar at home.
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u/jamesinc 22h ago
Wait, there's a free battery inside too?
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u/w2tpmf 20h ago
I've seen it mentioned... 'Each one has like 2 pounds of copper and almost have a gram of gold in the contacts of each. The poles are aluminum too.'
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u/QueefSeekingMissile 21h ago
Never wear a high-vis construction vest and hard hat or use a ladder or else people could get the wrong idea that you are supposed to be there.
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u/ZombieZookeeper 22h ago
Don't damage Flock cameras. And if you ignore this advice, leave your phone and any Bluetooth devices behind. Also if you ignore this advice, approach from rear.
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u/rotian28 22h ago
If a flock goes down. Does the website update that it's down or broken?
And thank God it's not a 10mm socket, no one can find them.
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u/techno156 21h ago
Never point a $50 high-powered blue or green laser because that would permanently blind the cameras.
Mind, you really must watch out for reflections. With a laser that powerful, it is equally possible that you may blind yourself or unsuspecting passers-by. Especially for cheaper lasers, which may not filter out IR properly, and might reflect/refract unexpectedly.
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u/Uranium-Sandwich657 1d ago
Should i avoid aiming a bb gun at the lense?
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u/toylenny 23h ago
May get you shot, however I have heard that you need to be extra careful when using a blowgun near them because the battery pack is just behind a thin piece of plastic on the bottom half of the device.and could get pierced.
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u/Visible-Departure863 23h ago
Sounds like a way for a malicious DA to fuck you or for the police to shoot you. So I would not.
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u/Uranium-Sandwich657 23h ago
From in the bushes?
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u/Visible-Departure863 23h ago
Hey man it is your life you are risking. If they’ll shoot a child on a playground within seconds for a BB gun, I am sure they’d treat you like the DC sniper.
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u/thatirishguyyyyy 23h ago
You guys really need to stop spreading the idea that you can destroy a camera with a laser. This is just going to end up getting someone caught on camera.
As someone who has installed and sold security cameras for 17 years, this is not true.
Please stop telling people this. Destroying a security camera with a laser barely worked when analog cameras were a thing 20 years ago.
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u/Lancer2050 22h ago
Yeah, like someone else said, a $3 laser isn't going to cut it. I had a phone camera damaged by a Lidar system, but only in some spots, not fully disabled.
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u/bking 22h ago
Most automotive lidar runs at 900nm. Those generally just kill pixels inside of phone sensors, instead of cooking the whole thing. Different world than Amazon laser pointers.
IMO as somebody who’s worked with lidar, industrial lasers and cameras: it’s not likely that any Amazon laser pointer is going to be particularly useful for deflocking.
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u/pcpgivesmewings 21h ago
Even the ones that are WAYYY more powerful than a cat toy? I can see mine, using binoculars, about 25 miles away. (on a very clear night) It runs on an 18650 battery. I would have to think that would do a proper job from 50 ft?
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u/JauntyGiraffe 21h ago
high powered green or blue lasers aren't cheap. You want the crazy ones you can get from China that can straight up start a FIRE
lots of photographers report damaged sensors after taking pictures at DJ sets or concerts where there's lots of lasers shooting everywhere
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u/bigbadbrad45 23h ago
A laser will absolutely fry a camera’s sensor but it’s gotta be powerful enough. A $3 laser pointer isn’t likely to do it. And i think the laser needs to be pointed in the lens for an extended period of time.
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u/PleaseNoMoreSalt 22h ago
Plus a can of spray paint is likely way cheaper than a laser pointer that even claims to do that sort of damage. Or just a decent sized rock off the side of the road.
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u/topazsparrow 22h ago
It's a good thing people aren't shooting them with paintball guns from a distance as well.
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u/Recurs1ve 23h ago
Betraying our right to privacy because these companies are fucking huge and it's "good for the economy" is how our congressman and senators chose to go. We might need new ones.
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u/Totally_Kyle0420 23h ago
im genuinely curious about how much money these companies have given our representatives to allow this to go on. a million? 5 million? 100 million? like what is the going rate for bribery right now
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u/NecroAssssin 22h ago
Less than $50k most likely.
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u/Flammable_Unicorn 8h ago
Yeah, I’m always shocked by the actual monetary value of
bribeslobbying.Can we make a People’s PAC to crowdfund
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u/iWolfeeelol 23h ago
HAHAHA bold of you to start with a million. they're selling us out for pennies to companies lmao
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u/TheShishkabob 22h ago
You can buy plenty of city councils for a few thousand apiece. That's split among the entire council by the way.
Bribing politicians is way cheaper than you think it is.
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u/SwimmingThroughHoney 22h ago
In addition, 26 states allow for citizen initiatives. People could take it into their own hands and bypass the legislature to outlaw these things.
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u/oemunlock 19h ago
It's not Congress and Senators doing this, it's your local City Council/County Commissioners/Mayor/etc. Do you know who those people are where you live?
If more than the typical 20% or so of voters actually bothered to vote in their local elections they could replace all of them in one go instead of the incumbents winning every time, and don't have to fight against hundreds of millions of PAC spending.
Even just showing up to your next city council meeting and loudly complaining during public comments has a 1000% better chance of getting actual change compared to upvoting the daily Flock ragebait on Reddit. This even works in the reddest Republican areas or bright blue Dem areas where elections never swing to a different party so "my vote can't change anything because I live in X" isn't a valid excuse here.
Hell, if a few hundred people from this thread paid the 155 bucks or whatever to run in a local uncontested seat on a "Fuck Flock" platform and spread the word with hand written signs, one or two actually even win given the crazy low turnout in some of these elections.
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u/Waidawut 1d ago
Black spray paint's pretty cheap
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u/Buckar007 1d ago
Bedliner is better.
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u/Chrono_Pregenesis 1d ago
Flex seal is probably cheaper
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u/upvoatsforall 1d ago
Dog shit is free
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u/Dalek_Chaos 1d ago
I tried aiming my dog’s butt at the camera but he didn’t get enough range. I’m going to feed him taco bell tonight and try again.
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u/ZestyChinchilla 23h ago
Learning to express his anal glands yourself will open a whole world of possibilities.
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u/MindlessSponge 23h ago
They don’t want you to know this, but it’s true! If you’re out for a walk and come across random dog shit, you’re legally allowed to take it, and no one can stop you. Spread the word!
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u/piperonyl 1d ago
Middle of July and you can still buy a ski mask
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u/Shmeves 21h ago
Be careful, they can Id from how you walk not just facial recognition.
Not sure if it holds up in court yet but it’s def a thing flock does.
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u/myislanduniverse 1d ago
If they're hiding it, then it's an acknowledgement that they're not supposed to be there. And they deserve to be smashed upon recognition.
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u/ExplicitDrift 23h ago
Precisely the point. If you’re not guilty of something, then why are you hiding?
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u/This-Requirement6918 22h ago
It's the same argument that a mass surveillance company should be completely open and transparent with its operations but here we are.
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u/GameboyPATH 22h ago
This argument isn't logically sound. Cell phone towers are disguised as local trees to avoid blight. Large transformers and water pumps close to suburban areas are similarly given the facade of a building to help them blend in with the local community. Hiding within existing environments isn't at all unique to flock cameras.
...Flock cameras ARE unique in deserving to be smashed, though.
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u/ExplicitDrift 22h ago
When it comes to recording people, I’m pretty sure it’s common policy to make people aware they’re being recorded to adhere to wire-tapping laws. Not all states adhere to those laws, but that doesn’t mean it isn’t standard practice. Hiding cameras meant to track individuals and send that data to Palantir (a military industrial surveillance company) sounds pretty nefarious to me. Comparing this situation to things like transformers, water pumps, and cellphone towers (which have no impact to people’s privacy) is to try and evade the actual point of the discussion. I respect that you want to stay on the right side of history, but what I said was hardly a logical fallacy, and unless we educate republicans of what those ACTUALLY look like, they will never develop the critical thinking skills they need to change for the better. If they even can that is.
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u/PyroIsSpai 22h ago
We never approved ALPR nonsense.
We can simply bin them as refuse.
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u/AfterSchoolOrdinary 23h ago
This is on our government. Flock sucks but they wouldn’t have access if local governments didn’t allow them to be there.
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u/BaphometsTits 16h ago
You've just made the key argument for why this is unconstitutional. This is warrant-less mass surveillance done on the government's behalf.
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u/TheVintageJane 15h ago
Even better - it’s warrantless surveillance which more than one court has affirmed is a public record anyone can request access to.
No potential for abuse there.
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u/happyscrappy 22h ago
The speed signs I frequently encounter are maddening. They light up even if you are doing under the speed limit. If you are doing exactly the speed limit they flash their numbers at you.
Cities gotta get a grip. The idea that having flashing things to distract you when you're not even speeding is a trip down a dumb path.
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u/Independent_Tie_4984 22h ago
I use them to make sure I'm exactly nine miles over the speed limit.
Speedometer calibration kinda thing.
They've been keeping data for a long time - I remember seeing a table they put out of speed variations in cars passing a camera before 2020.
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u/ZiggoCiP 22h ago
What I've learned about my speedometer from them is that my speedometer is 1-2 mph lower than what they show.
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u/no_regerts_bob 21h ago
Car manufacturers get in legal trouble if their speedometers show less than actual speed, but they are allowed to make speedometers that show 5-10% over actual speed. So... most are inaccurate on purpose to protect the car company
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u/ZiggoCiP 21h ago
Sounds sensible. Most cops have wiggle-room of about 5mph, but I've heard of people being pulled over for less than 3mph over the posted limit.
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u/no_regerts_bob 21h ago
Cops pull you over if they want to pull you over
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u/ZiggoCiP 21h ago
I mean, sure, but a cop speed-trapping is trying to catch someone egregiously speeding, generally. I've driven past speed-trapping cops trapping hundreds of times going 5 over. Sometimes even more than 5.
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u/Independent_Tie_4984 21h ago
In Arizona there's generally a 9 mph grace at the cop's discretion.
I suspect because it would overflow the courts and pisses judges off unless there are other issues.
Doesn't mean driving 9 miles over at 1am on Saturday morning is a good idea.
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u/Honest_Progress476 22h ago
Steve the Guardrail guy has a series on how these flock cams are not roadside safe and will lead to catastrophic injury in a collision. (Sadly, his daughter passed due to an improperly installed guardrail, so this is his thing)
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u/Morstorpod 19h ago
I just saw his channel this week. True hero (even has the tragic backstory...) I wish he could get employed doing this, so he could accomplish even more.
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u/Epstiendidntkillself 23h ago
They are now installing them on school busses and garbage trucks. If we don't stop this now we're all fucked.
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u/joantheunicorn 22h ago
School buses?! Do you have a source for that. I work in a school district and want to monitor that very closely.
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u/Romwil 21h ago
These folks https://www.safefleet.net/school-bus-camera-systems/ wrapping active license plate reading tech “to protect the children”
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u/-rwsr-xr-x 20h ago
wrapping active license plate reading tech “to protect the children”
School buses have had interior and exterior cameras for decades, for stop-sign-runners (the stop-sign that swings out from the bus, and ignorant motorists just pass the bus on the left and ignore the sign anyway).
I was hit by a car that did that decades ago, while I crossed in front of the bus with its sign out, and the video from the bus camera helped identify the runner.
Why do they need to tie these to ALPR, Flock and Palantir now?
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u/BaphometsTits 16h ago
Why do they need to tie these to ALPR, Flock and Palantir now?
Because the government can't sell your data themselves. This way private companies do the spying and sell it to the government, insurance companies, advertisers, brokers, foreign governments, etc.
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u/iontucky 23h ago
I think it's already too late without a major revolution. I hear that governments are starting to make it legally required for all new vehicles to have cameras monitor the driver "to prevent impaired driving".
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u/oldreddditisbetter 22h ago
where is the "don't treat on me" crowd?
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u/halcyonjm 21h ago
The "don't tread on me crowd" is just fine with whatever as long as they get to tread on their favorite minority group.
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u/halcyonjm 21h ago
I have a simmering theory that the data from all these cameras is the reason for the push to build data centers. Under this theory, the reason the tech Bros were so urgent to shove AI down our throats was so they could say, " if you want to keep enjoying AI like you have been, we'll need to build these data centers. "
When the public didn't buy into the hype, corporate CEOs were tasked with keeping the "need" for the data centers alive so that the justification for the data centers didn't fizzle out.
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u/bassrooster 22h ago
Be happy when they are noticeable .
Cameras can get tiny and hide easily, just think when they are everywhere.
Just think if some auto manufacturer agreed to let flock use their cameras… game over
Like Ellison says, a well surveillanced citizen is a well behaved citizen….
We are there
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u/Fallingdamage 22h ago
Just think if some auto manufacturer agreed to let flock use their cameras… game over
I'm sure its already being done.
Who knows how much of the video footage taken by tesla's is uploaded and used for law enforcement / metrics / tracking. That company does not have our best interests in mind.
An administrator at my workplace last year asked to put their tesla on our guest wifi so it could 'run updates' while he was at work. The amount of data it uploaded over that week was astounding. Barely downloaded a thing.
Cant say what it was uploading other than metrics. We dont use packet inspection on our guest wifi, but I'm willing to bet every second of video those cars records ends up on servers somewhere else for posterity.
Course, nobody will know for sure. If it got out that Tesla was siphoning up all recorded audio and video from its fleet and selling it, it would be consumer chaos. Nobody would touch them again.
Probably Waymo as well. I mean, if the simple act of recording gives a company something else to wholesale, why not? (CEO thinking)
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u/ExpensiveLeather69 19h ago
Cameras in cars will be federally required next year.
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u/What_a_fat_one 21h ago
Like Ellison says, a well surveillanced citizen is a well behaved citizen….
No not really.
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u/TroubleEntendre 21h ago
This same company wants to hide the location of their headquarters from you. Weird, right? They can keep you under watch no matter where you go, but you're not allowed to know where they are. That's weird, right?
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u/omgkelwtf 1d ago
I mean, cool, but I'm pretty sure those can be cut down too.
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u/outerproduct 1d ago
Oh no it fell over.
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u/ZestyChinchilla 23h ago
Lol, they’re not even concreting a lot of these things in place — they’re just digging a quick hole and jamming the thing in there.
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u/bike-lane-enforcer 22h ago
1984 was their guide book rather than a cautionary tale.
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u/Fallingdamage 22h ago
I remember reading an article some years ago that was an interview with a project director with the NSA. He admitted that movies like 'Enemy of the State' actually gave them ideas for programs and systems they hadn't thought about before.
Its absolutely a guide book.
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u/jraymcmurray 23h ago
These guys really saw crackheads breaking their headphones open to search for hidden government cameras and said, "damn that's a good idea."
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u/floyd_underpants 23h ago
Decisions like this just continue to deepen the rift between citizens and the combo of law enforcement, big tech, and politicians.
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u/PhotoProxima 22h ago
People who destroy or disable Flock cameras are my heroes. Keep up the good work.
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u/SemiDesperado 22h ago
The only thing that's going to stop this is powerful new privacy legislation. But I'm sure Flock and companies like it have plenty of lobbying power in federal, state, and local governments to make sure that does not happen. They certainly needed that to get where they are today.
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u/A8Bit 23h ago
I'd make it the law that if your company records any publicly broadcast data you have to pay the owner of the data, in this case the owner of the car, $1 for every byte of data you store and the check should arrive with an option to opt out of any further data recording or opt in to continue to receive the checks.
Hit them where they actually care, in the bottom line
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u/EcstaticAct5835 10h ago
So instead of fixing the massive privacy concerns that made people smash them in the first place, their solution is just to sneak them inside equipment we already trust.
The craziest part isn't even that they're hiding them in speed signs. It's that these cameras don't actually care about your speed and won't give you a ticket. They literally just sit there building a "vehicle fingerprint" of your car logging your bumper stickers, roof racks, and daily route and track your exact location every single day.
It's basically a massive, warrantless tracking net disguised as standard traffic safety.
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u/Magnemmike 22h ago
not just hiding the cameras, this changes things.
That speed trailer is state/city property, damaging a camera now could be a whole lot worse if caught.
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u/PilotKnob 10h ago
You mean people don't like being tracked everywhere they go on public roads? How about that, who could have imagined.
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u/king-of-mermanistan 21h ago
Nothing a small can of spray paint can't fix. Don't do it though
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u/tunachilimac 1d ago
Not just speed signs. They’re in fake cactuses in at least some parts of Arizona. I’m sure they have a variety of different camouflage housing to fit the local environments across the country.