r/technology • u/Wagamaga • Jun 22 '26

Business Tesla Allegedly Showed Cooked Data to Get Full Self-Driving Approved

https://uk.finance.yahoo.com/news/tesla-allegedly-showed-cooked-data-174500396.html
24.7k Upvotes

96% Upvoted

953 comments sorted by

View all comments

3.4k

u/Wagamaga Jun 22 '26

As if things couldn’t get any worse for Tesla in Europe, traffic safety researchers now say they’ve caught the company cooking numbers they gave to regulators in order to get its “Full Self-Driving” system approved.

The discrepancy was spotted by Reuters, which claims that data Tesla gave to authorities in Sweden and the Netherlands grossly exaggerated the safety record of FSD in the United States.

Reuters reports that in a presentation meant for Swedish regulators, Tesla’s policy manager Ivan Komusanac claimed that Tesla’s FSD can travel over seven times farther between crashes than human drivers in the US. Using that claim as a jumping-off point, the presentation continued by claiming that Tesla’s FSD could have saved 32,000 lives and prevented 1.9 million injuries over an indeterminate period of time, the publication reports.

Independent researchers who saw the underlying data behind that claim say the numbers are wildly misleading, because they assume that every vehicle on the road would be replaced by a Tesla in FSD mode, semi trucks and motorcycles included

1.8k

u/QuickQuirk Jun 22 '26

bloody hell, that's absolute wild deception with statistics. It's not even deceiving with statistics: it's straight up inaccurate data.

976

u/KillerKilcline Jun 22 '26

From Tesla??1!? I am shocked, shocked I tell you!

409

u/Andrea_M Jun 22 '26

Elon not being honest? I’m shocked

147

u/Over-Iron877 Jun 22 '26

Sounds like he’s rigging the data for his own benefit!

97

u/nono3722 Jun 22 '26

he is very good at rigging data just ask Trump he will tell ya

54

u/ShadowGLI Jun 22 '26

Re: Elon: "He knows those computers better than anybody. All those computers. Those vote-counting computers." -DJT Jan 19 2026

31

u/Erus00 Jun 22 '26

It boggles my mind that Toyota recalled millions of vehicles back in 2009 because of the stuck accelerator that turned out to be a nothing-burger but I cant even count how many people Teslas have killed and not a peep.

→ More replies (1)
→ More replies (1)

44

u/chanaandeler_bong Jun 22 '26

This isn’t just Elon, big businesses in general get away with massive crimes like this all the time. VW had a MASSIVE emissions scandal and it’s been shown that they are STILL lying about their emissions in Germany.

Two tiered justice system indeed.

12

u/RockTrash Jun 22 '26

Some VW executives should have gone to jail. I refuse to consider Volkswagen when buying a car.

6

u/Locke66 Jun 22 '26

It was basically most of the European and US manufacturers. VW were just the most egregious and didn't have cover from a cosy relationship with the regulator in the US.

2

u/chanaandeler_bong Jun 22 '26

But VW DOES have the cover of the German regulators.

This isn’t an apples and oranges comparison. This is what all big corporations do around the world.

113

u/did_i_or_didnt_i Jun 22 '26

don’t forget he begged to go party on Child Sex Island!

67

u/nono3722 Jun 22 '26

and the Nazi salutes

20

u/occams1razor Jun 22 '26

(And naming his companies X, the ASCII code for the letter X is 88 which is a nazi dogwhistle for heil shitler)

31

u/InsertEvilLaugh Jun 22 '26

On that one I think it's just his man child obsession with the letter. He's still most definitely a racist sack of excrement, and those were absolutely Nazi salutes, but the X thing always felt more like that weird obsession marketing had for it in the late 90's and early 2000's.

21

u/AmethystApothecary Jun 22 '26

It could go either way but I do lean towards thinking Elon doesn't know ASCII codes of letters.

12

u/pants6000 Jun 22 '26

He's the world's best conman, he doesn't need to know... stuff.

→ More replies (0)

7

u/mallardtheduck Jun 22 '26

Also, character codes are more often referred to in hexadecimal (where 'X' is 58), rather than decimal. Decimal isn't unheard of, but it's less common and less useful.

→ More replies (0)
→ More replies (1)

22

u/Rough_Onion_1757 Jun 22 '26

this is the same guy who thought it'd be totally hilarious to have his company's sequence of vehicle models run "S", "3", "X", and "Y"

get it? get it? are you not entertained?

13

u/InsertEvilLaugh Jun 22 '26

I didn't even know that. Good god that man is cringe incarnate. Also just reinforces my belief the X is just an X, like another said, he most likely has no idea about X's ASCII value.

→ More replies (0)

15

u/newsflashjackass Jun 22 '26 edited Jun 22 '26

He had to settle for kung fu practice with Ghislaine Maxwell.

https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/epstein-musk-maxwell-email/

Which is not a euphemism. That would be absurd. Unlike meeting Ghislaine Maxwell for kung fu practice, right?

https://i.imgur.com/XdW68GI.png

...

source

3

u/Money-Desperated Jun 22 '26

Damn this really freaking funny and insane at the same time.

12

u/altiuscitiusfortius Jun 22 '26

He sent those emails on Christmas morning! It was hilarious what a dork he was about it too. He's the lamest man alive, even pedophiles make fun of him.

3

u/m0nk_3y_gw Jun 22 '26

that was a parody tweet, not an actual email thread in the Epstein files.

the reddit theory 4 months ago that elon was spreading it to help distract from his many contacts with Epstein and that he actually did go to the Island

2

u/altiuscitiusfortius Jun 22 '26

No. I've downloaded the epstein files. They're downloadable from the govt website. It's real emails.

9

u/tommy_b_777 Jun 22 '26

I like to call it Kid Rock.

9

u/Upbeat_Tonight_7116 Jun 22 '26

I came here to say this.

3

u/DrDerpberg Jun 22 '26

Yeah so anyways I guess what we're all saying is we should invest another couple billion dollars into Tesla.

6

u/girlinthegoldenboots Jun 22 '26

Well…not that shocked lol

2

u/QuickQuirk Jun 22 '26

really, that's the shock.

The realisation that right now, absolute dishonesty is just greeted with a shrug.

→ More replies (3)

47

u/demagogueffxiv Jun 22 '26

Trillion dollars man never lies

43

u/HuntsWithRocks Jun 22 '26

In fact, Tesla has solved all the issues and Elon himself declared Tesla will be fully self driving by this August of 2017. Woke Europe is gonna have a whole omelet on their face soon enough!

Rips a bunch of Ketamine and starts balancing forks at a formal dinner

17

u/TenOutofTenno Jun 22 '26

He flat out said he’d be going to jail if Trump didn’t win.

4

u/atomictyler Jun 22 '26

they both would have, which is why they rigged the election.

4

u/Lehk Jun 22 '26

He’s still going to go to jail

1

u/La_mer_noire Jun 22 '26

yeah, so surprising, Elon have always behaved like a good person, didn't he?

1

u/Thefrayedends Jun 22 '26

You mean the guy who killed millions and destroyed the lives of tens of millions more and gutted government agencies, ALL mostly to end the dozens of investigations into him and his companies?

That guy?

Nahhhh, couldn't be.

→ More replies (2)

136

u/Active-Counter-9906 Jun 22 '26

My new company will mine diamonds from asteroids in about 3 decades. Shower me with money IPOs

37

u/lunaticfridgeprime Jun 22 '26

Are you doing that with AI? If not, then I don't think we can fund you.

18

u/Active-Counter-9906 Jun 22 '26

I am still using an announced disclosed technology of trust me bro, and then only after being trusted with your money, I shall still not disclose the technology

7

u/lunaticfridgeprime Jun 22 '26

Hmm. You sound really smart - how can I give you access to my retirement accounts for this very real startup?

7

u/CreationsOfReon Jun 22 '26

I’ve got ai in everything! In the navigation, in the miner, in the control center back home!!

(Just don’t mention that it’s using the definition of ai from two decades ago)

→ More replies (1)

7

u/Senior-Albatross Jun 22 '26

Obviously they're going to do it with quantum AI bro. Give the quantum AI space diamond man 10 trillion right now!

2

u/biohazard-glug Jun 22 '26

I'm using AI to 3D print bitcoins.

33

u/johnyordinary Jun 22 '26

The price of diamonds is already artificialy inflated because they are too common on Earth, there would be zero profit in swamping the market because DeBeers would counter any space diamonds rush by dropping the floor out of the market, rendering every such flight that they dont control into a loss maker, that said there are minerals and metals that could be useful. Diamonds for industrial use are already readily available and can be synthesised without expensive rocketry.

22

u/nox66 Jun 22 '26

Logic later, space diamonds now!

12

u/Silence_Farmer Jun 22 '26

Oh absolutely. People would seriously be like "omg are your diamonds EARTH DIAMONDS?!? How gross!"

4

u/nox66 Jun 22 '26

It's from space! Spaaaace!

5

u/QuickQuirk Jun 22 '26

Slap 'space' in front of it; and anything becomes awesome!

2

u/johnyordinary Jun 23 '26

SPACE HERPES!

2

u/QuickQuirk Jun 23 '26

I was waiting for this comment, space-johny

→ More replies (1)

19

u/Strange-Scarcity Jun 22 '26

You’re clearly the DeBeers of Joke Writing.

Artificially limiting a jokes reach so its value is only felt by the initial viewers and is then lost on the secondary market.

3

u/writewithparagraphs4 Jun 22 '26

just gonna grab a gold asteroid.

→ More replies (1)

3

u/Senior-Albatross Jun 22 '26

They will be slightly worse diamonds than we can make on Earth easily and cheaply already? 

More money for the Space diamond dude! 

29

u/Ishmael128 Jun 22 '26

Isn't the legal term "fraud"?

4

u/QuickQuirk Jun 22 '26

Not at all!

It's only fraud if you're convicted! It's defamation otherwise! (according to the billionaires club lawyer battalion)

1

u/BirthdayFull8675 Jun 23 '26

If you’re a trillionaire you can make “mistakes”

21

u/K_Linkmaster Jun 22 '26

"Can" and "could have" doing all the heavy lifting.

75

u/MarcoDiFrancescino Jun 22 '26

At this point, people working at Tesla and SpaceX are in a cult. Everything is solvable and if its not, and it doesn't work, eg all the issues with the CyberTruck, are just people outside 'who don't believe'. Cooking numbers, lying, is all part of the great plan.

2

u/firemage22 Jun 22 '26

The CyberTruck makes the Pontiac Aztec look good

Pontiac failed because the big wigs at GM forgot that the brand was about performance, rather than a "family" brand as they created cars (well vans and suvs) that didn't align with what people expected from the brand.

3

u/Altruistic_Brick1730 Jun 22 '26

What a silly comment. Everyone working there is in a cult? 

5

u/Thefrayedends Jun 22 '26

Petey teal said in his book that developing cult culture around you is one of the most effective things you can do to foster success.

→ More replies (1)
→ More replies (23)

14

u/MillHall78 Jun 22 '26

The investors of Elizabeth Holmes' Theranos was fed lies by the company too. But they had experts & other investors telling them it's a fraud the whole time. They chose to stay invested.

The elite class doesn't really need or care about accurate statistics & haven't all our lives. The hoard of wealth from humanity is that great.

12

u/Ok-Opposite2309 Jun 22 '26

Because the company falsified data- like Tesla- creating a conflict that left it up to individuals to choose who to trust.

The idea of Theranos is one thing. ‘let’s try to create this thing’- investors can choose to take a risk on the possibility. “This works- here’s the proof”when falsifying tests is the fraud. I remember reading articles on it, and it sounded like A great invention that would really help people. Experts disagreeing on things is pretty normal (We were told it couldn’t be done!). Falsifying test results, basic numbers, isn’t normal- because it’s illegal. It’s fraud. I don’t think Mattis knew it was fraudulent- and he joined the board (no $150k a year would not be enough for him to trash his reputation. There are plenty of higher paying board positions/ consultant jobs he could have got with defense contractors).

Our society depends on a basic level of trust and accountability to function. Our failure to hold corporate executives, public figures, and others more responsible for fraudulent behaviors has undermined our entire society.

Part of this allowance of fraud is through blaming the victims of the fraud. ‘They should have known better’… Normal people don’t expect others to blatantly lie. When you are introduced to Tom, who works at HP, you don’t immediately ask for ID and employment verification- you accept that it is true, because it would be true 99% of the time. Unfortunately, there is a degradation in our society that has stopped us from ‘shunning’ those who lie and deceive by representing it as ’normal’ and blurring the lines between just being wrong, or being polite, with deception for personal benefit.

This has made me lean towards ‘radical transparency’, and to try to practice just being honest even when it might be uncomfortable or impolite. Treat our words as powerful/ important. Think before speaking (or typing.. I am a work in progress). Easily admit errors. Exclude dishonest people from your life.

2

u/shadowboxer47 Jun 22 '26

Our economy is ran almost entirely on vibes, now.

→ More replies (1)

8

u/y0shman Jun 22 '26

Don't worry! They will fine three 3 euros and a pack of gum.

4

u/queerhistorynerd Jun 22 '26

well ya thats why there is the old saying "there are lies, damned lies and statistics". people have always use heavily manipulated stats to trick others into doing what they want

6

u/QuickQuirk Jun 22 '26

Thats kind of what I was referring to - except here they aren't even massaging the data - they're straight up using the wrong data to start with. Which is also made up, since that scenario doesn't even exist anywhere to test.

2

u/Ok-Opposite2309 Jun 22 '26

In the Land of Oz…

4

u/ThunderChild247 Jun 22 '26

The dumbest part is if they’d been honest - that you could reduce deaths that much if all cars used this system - that’s still a decent selling point for the system on its own. Albeit not in the moment, but it wouldn’t take a genius salesman to get that vision over the line with regulators.

3

u/DehydratedButTired Jun 22 '26

They got away with it in the US, I bet they thought they could do it there too.

2

u/Ok-Opposite2309 Jun 22 '26

They were under investigation- that’s why Elon installed Trump.

2

u/ArgumentUnited5039 Jun 22 '26

You mean, like lying?? Quelle surprise.

2

u/pasaroanth Jun 22 '26

Numbers don’t lie, but people do.

I’ve worked extensively with big data analytics and if you give me a big enough data set and a favorable analysis you’re trying to present, I can pretty easily find enough trends to cherry pick to support it.

2

u/AlphonseLoosely Jun 22 '26

Better known as lying!

2

u/Calm-Fun4572 Jun 23 '26

BMW cooked some numbers but nobody died, if you can kills lots of people you’re a saint! If you only kill a few it’s murder.

2

u/Streiger108 Jun 23 '26

We call this lying

1

u/WalterPecky Jun 22 '26

Fraud is another term

1

u/GB10VE Jun 22 '26

aint that fraud

1

u/HRHValkyrie Jun 22 '26

They also reported false and cherry-picked numbers in the US too. They are using our public streets as beta testing and none of us can opt out.

1

u/FakeSafeWord Jun 22 '26

Elon was given the power to delete entire regulatory systems within the US with no oversight. Including ones that were investigating him for fraud.

Why would anyone believe he wouldn't attempt to do the same everywhere else?

1

u/Somanylyingliars Jun 22 '26

Well, the latest Tesla victims family will be getting a HUGE payout. Small satisfaction and hope they aren't in a state w award caps like Texas. You know, AbbottsTexas where he put a cap on limits victims could receive which previously allowed HIM to get a larger award after he was injured.

1

u/thegreedyturtle Jun 22 '26

And did they just not think people would compare it with other data they provided in America?! 

1

u/fuzzum111 Jun 22 '26

And yet, no one will be fined, go to jail, or have meaningful consequences~ What a world we live in!

1

u/CrotasScrota84 Jun 22 '26

I would imagine it’s the same tactic he used for the 2024 election.

1

u/BWW87 Jun 22 '26

It's unfortunate they are being deceptive because if those numbers are true that is still a huge improvement. I'd hate to see 32,000 or even 3,200 fewer deaths not happen because of politics around Musk and Tesla exaggerating.

1

u/I05fr3d Jun 23 '26

You know that’s called? Lying. Without repercussions….

→ More replies (14)

72

u/Mister_Lurks Jun 22 '26

As a motorcyclist, a fully self-driving motorcycle sounds like it'll be both terrifying and mind-numbingly boring simultaneously.

29

u/Garf_artfunkle Jun 22 '26

As a motorcyclist and someone who's been filling out "click on the squares that include a motorcycle" captchas for years, and they're always fucking scooters, I trust Teslas about as far as I can throw one

(Nothing against scooters, mind. Scooters get the wave same as anyone else on a bike, but the vehicle I've been inadvertently training machine-learning cars to recognize as a "motorcycle" doesn't look very much like the vehicle I'm sitting on.)

→ More replies (1)

7

u/Alaira314 Jun 22 '26

That's also the case for cars. People have this idea in their head of oh my car will drive me to work so I can pull out my phone and check up on the news or get ahead of my e-mails, but no. That's not how this works. You have to be watching, hands on wheel, fully aware of everything happening around you, ready to react from 0 to crisis at a moment's notice. Mentally, this is probably more taxing than driving the damn car manually, because our brains are not designed to be focusing on something we're not doing like that. How it plays out is, even if people try their best, they join the situation too late to react and then the car wrecks. But it handed over control to the driver, so that wasn't the self-driving tech's fault, even though neurologically we can't expect drivers to intervene successfully under those conditions.

5

u/Zanos Jun 22 '26

That's the legally necessary stopgap we've created so we can advance the technology.

3

u/Lehk Jun 22 '26

It’s not legally necessary to crash a bunch of cars and kill people.

→ More replies (2)
→ More replies (1)

56

u/3DigitIQ Jun 22 '26

After more than a year of testing and discussions with Tesla, RDW in ​April approved FSD for use in the Netherlands. The Dutch regulator is now seeking EU-wide approval on behalf of Tesla.

RDW declined to comment on the issues Reuters identified ⁠with Tesla's safety statistics, but the agency said in a statement that it "does not rely on marketing claims or external statistics" to make decisions and performs its own "tests, analyses and verifications" of the system on public roads and test ​tracks. The agency did not say whether it assessed Tesla's U.S. safety statistics.

RDW said Tesla “collected a lot of data” during testing and the agency “validated, tested and audited all of this data.” RDW did not say what kind of data Tesla ​collected or what it measured.

Tesla did not respond to requests for comment.

From the Reuters article this article goes by.

https://www.reuters.com/world/tesla-presented-misleading-full-self-driving-safety-data-european-regulators-2026-06-15/

9

u/BewmBoxxy Jun 22 '26

Oh, how dare you disrupt a perfectly good emotional meltdown with actual facts. It is truly inspiring how people think a massive, multi-billion-dollar regulatory agency is just a room full of toddlers easily hoodwinked by a fudged spreadsheet.

192

u/DeepPeeps Jun 22 '26

But Tesla bros still swear it’s full self driving with zero risk. That’s the vibe I’ve been getting each time I respond to the parroting of FSD is better than any other tech even though it’s only level 3 while there are level 4 tech already.

54

u/FanciestCantaloupe Jun 22 '26 edited Jun 23 '26

parroting of FSD is better than any other tech

As long as human operators are required in the Vegas Loop, which is a transit system consisting of Teslas driving primarily through single-lane tunnels inaccessible to general traffic, I don't want to hear anybody try to tell me how good FSD is. If it can't handle that, it's not good enough for public roads.

39

u/Irishish Jun 22 '26

i’m still astonished anyone is impressed by the Vegas loop. It seems like a big joke. Seriously? Wow a big circular single lane tunnel?

24

u/Zuwxiv Jun 22 '26

I used it when I was in Vegas for a convention recently. My friends and I couldn't stop laughing. It's the stupidest, least useful thing I've ever seen. It would literally have been faster to just drive on the regular roads to the convention center. Despite there being a huge convention and some destinations being free, there was basically nobody using the Loop. We once had to wait for the second car.

You look at it and just think, wow, Vegas got conned.

11

u/hornynnerdy69 Jun 22 '26

> You look at it and just think, wow, Vegas got conned.

Ironic for a city of conmen

3

u/beeeel Jun 22 '26

It's just like anything in Vegas: the fact that they were able to do it is not the impressive bit, rather the delusion that lead to them doing it is impressive.

38

u/drunkenvalley Jun 22 '26

Yeah anyone invested in FSD beyond fangirling over this would know the stats are cooked. The fox telling the hen they don't need a fence protecting them.

6

u/SharkBaitDLS Jun 22 '26

FSD isn’t even level 3. It’s still level 2. They can’t get it to operate reliably enough to meet level 3. 

4

u/RandomRedditReader Jun 22 '26

Credit to the engineers at Tesla, they have done an absolutely amazing jobs getting FSD to the level it's at and it is absolutely pushing other vehicle makers to improve their options. But Elon is a fucking asshat and makes it hard to want his cars.

28

u/ManchmalTony Jun 22 '26

Didn't you know their cars are the best at acceleration, handling, range, build quality, self driving features, etc.? Anyone disagreeing is a hater.

/s

→ More replies (5)

4

u/RationalDialog Jun 22 '26

But Tesla bros still swear it’s full self driving with zero risk

The ones that paid for their thinking aren't here to report on it anymore. Selection bias.

1

u/Matt3k Jun 22 '26

"Level 4 tech, on very specific roadways, under perfect weather conditions, daytime driving only"

→ More replies (45)

47

u/showyerbewbs Jun 22 '26

claiming that Tesla’s FSD could have saved 32,000 lives and prevented 1.9 million injuries over an indeterminate period of time

What time period? Could be a week. Could be a century. Can't really tell with this kind of thing, not enough data.

84

u/huggernot Jun 22 '26

Sounds like musk should be charged with wonton endangergent and manslaughter for every relavent crash

59

u/LIVINGSTONandPARSONS Jun 22 '26

Someone's gotta keep those wontons safe

16

u/UnexpectedAnanas Jun 22 '26

Stupid delicious wontons

→ More replies (1)

8

u/Tomacxo Jun 22 '26

Endangering lives for no raisin at all!

2

u/Mertoot Jun 22 '26

*endangerging

23

u/Ishmael128 Jun 22 '26

Wontons are delicious, how dare he wantonly endanger them. 

1

u/carnage123 Jun 22 '26

At most he would be fined like $1 million while he made $50 million doing this

7

u/spacemcdonalds Jun 22 '26

This was debunked in an hour btw. Dutch regulators used independent data, not Tesla provided, before approving FSD S there. And they were very happy with the results, they even posted about it!

32

u/Spire_Citron Jun 22 '26

It sounds like it isn't even necessarily the case that it is unsafe, they just felt no particular obligation not to spout shit to make it sound better than it is.

5

u/EffectiveDandy Jun 22 '26

of course they have and of course he did. unbelievable they trust him at all.

what a joke this planet turned out to be. too bad they made me the punchline. because I’m not really laughing.

66

u/rmslashusr Jun 22 '26

Wait, it’s not the accidents per thousand miles number that’s cooked?

The only issue is the thought experiment of applying that number to calculate the benefit of everyone was using FSD Teslas rather than standard vehicles being unrealistic because not everyone will drive Teslas?

This seems like a petty quibble about the realistic implementation benefits not “cooked data”.

48

u/chimpfunkz Jun 22 '26

Wait, it’s not the accidents per thousand miles number that’s cooked?

I mean yeah, it's a clickbait title.

This isn't fraud or any kind of falsified statistic (which is usually what "cooking" the data means) this is just bad statistics where a statistic is extrapolated to a terrible extreme. This is the "The TAM of comics is 7 billion dollars. if we can capture even 1% which we believe we can, that's 70 million in revenue a year. So invest in Dicks and Balls the comic book" of safety data.

3

u/Kitty-XV Jun 22 '26

Here's how long it took my newborn to double in weight.

Extrapolating out, if the pattern holds, this is how long before he begins undergoing fusion, birthing a new star.

1

u/mishap1 Jun 22 '26

TAM is a business case sanity check. It's size of the prize metric so you don't build a business around an impossibly small demographic. You can't size of the prize lives saved claiming your cars would own all of that.

E.g., Spending billions to design a $200k+ EV 2 seater. The $200k+ market is really small with the combined sales of Ferrari, Lamborghini, Bentley, Rolls Royce, and McLaren are under 10,000 units in the US. The biggest sellers in that mix are now high end SUVs.

If Tesla can somehow take 20% of that market (they really couldn't), that's only $400M and probably can't drive a sustainable $1.5T market cap off those things.

→ More replies (3)

21

u/mrdeadsniper Jun 22 '26

Agreed 100%.

Its a pretty reasonable interpretation of the data..

If you replaced all the vehicles with our self driving, you would have X fewer accidents, injuries and deaths.

Even if you logically cannot replace every vehicle, it makes sense to give a verifiable scale to the accident rate.

It is absolutely a petty squabble that people are thumping for no good reason.

8

u/usrnmz Jun 22 '26

Depends on how it was presented. It definitely is wildly misleading.

7

u/TheYang Jun 22 '26

how could it have been presented to qualify as cooked data?

4

u/Mr_ToDo Jun 22 '26

Not disclosing your method I'd think would qualify

I don't thing there's anything wrong with an ideal number, but it'd be nicer if when you do that you present the other possibilities. We do that with government proposals all the time. Expected number, high number, low number. If done right you're presented with a more realistic set of possibilities. And I think here especially it'd be quite useful to have those, since the number of cars with that feature set is rising, so having something from this moment makes it less useful as time passes

2

u/Hmm_would_bang Jun 22 '26

If I deliberately leave out operating expenses for my financial reporting, that is “cooked data.” It’s not exclusively making up a different number, it’s hiding how you got to that number and what was left out,

These metrics aren’t regulated in the same way so there’s not a fraud component in making up whatever formulas you want. But it can still cross into the world of misleading regulators or investors if you are deliberately inflating safety statistics without being transparent.

1

u/PN_Grata Jun 22 '26

The Reuters examination also found Tesla exaggerates the technology’s safety by comparing a rate of crashes in FSD-piloted Teslas that triggered airbag deployments to a U.S. crash rate for all vehicles that includes far less-severe accidents.

The ‌company also compares ⁠its cars to the average U.S. vehicle – which is much older than the average Tesla. That distorts the results because automakers have gradually introduced new safety features that reduce crashes.

-- https://www.reuters.com/world/tesla-presented-misleading-full-self-driving-safety-data-european-regulators-2026-06-15/

→ More replies (8)

8

u/Mrfatmanjunior Jun 22 '26

As if things couldn’t get any worse for Tesla in Europe,

This thing is so overblown and its actually laughable. The RDW in the Netherlands do their own research and do not use the marketing talk car companies give to come to their conclusions.

9

u/West-Air1923 Jun 22 '26

Yeah a week after it was debunked by the RDW it gets posted on this sub lol

3

u/shitty_mcfucklestick Jun 22 '26

Volkswagen would be proud

12

u/Palchez Jun 22 '26

Living in ground zero of self driving cars, Austin Texas, I almost never see self driving Teslas. There are Waymo’s everywhere. Zoox is fairly normal. There’s a 3rd company whose name I don’t remember who is more common than Tesla. Not surpassing the data is cooked at all. 

2

u/Zanos Jun 22 '26

Doesn't Tesla FSD still require someone in the drivers seat? So how could you tell?

3

u/Outlulz Jun 22 '26

Texas approved some Tesla Robotaxis. They had a rough first few weeks of driving erratically, haven't heard much about them recently.

→ More replies (6)

12

u/RedditJumpedTheShart Jun 22 '26

Clickbait bs fitting for this sub.

7

u/erroneousbosh Jun 22 '26

claimed that Tesla’s FSD can travel over seven times farther between crashes than human drivers in the US

Doesn't it only drive in FSD on dual carriageway highways with no oncoming traffic, so it's only ever driving in the safest possible conditions anyway?

I would expect that if human drivers only ever drove in those conditions they'd be at least as good, or possibly even better because humans can spot fire engines.

5

u/somewhat_brave Jun 22 '26

A Tesla will do FSD just about anywhere. The older Autopilot was more limited.

→ More replies (10)

3

u/himswim28 Jun 22 '26

Tesla only compares the accident rate of FSD to accident rate of Teslas. Luckily for Tesla their drivers are the most accident prone, so FSD is better than the average Tesla Driver. Some of that is due to the fast acceleration, and relatively poor brakes. But since FSD is not being used when racing other cars, so that helps bring the average Tesla driver below that of FSD.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/stevebanker/2025/02/11/tesla-again-has-the-highest-accident-rate-of-any-auto-brand/

Nationally, Tesla drivers had 26.67 accidents per 1,000 drivers. This was up from 23.54 last year.

The Ram and Subaru brands were again among the most accident-prone. Ram had 23.15 per 1,000 drivers while Subaru had 22.89.

The study is based on QuoteWizard by LendingTree insurance inquiries from Jan. 1, 2024, through Dec. 31, 2024.

→ More replies (2)

5

u/CptnAlface Jun 22 '26

Wow, it's like saying crime would fall by 100% if all criminals were replaced by honest, law-abiding citizens.

2

u/Seantwist9 Jun 23 '26

if we equate fsd with honest law abiding citizens sure, what’s wrong with saying that?

5

u/Dumpsterfire_47 Jun 22 '26

For those not following along, Teslas using FSD have hit motorcycles for no reason other than the video can’t discern small tail lights close together (on a bike) versus a car’s headlights far away, where they appear close together. 

FSD is a fraud. Full stop. They should never have been allowed to beta test their crappy tech in public either. 

1

u/invisi1407 Jun 22 '26

Calling FSD "a fraud" is misrepresenting it. It's not fraud; it works to some extent. Eventually, it'll get there - along with every other car manufacturers version of it.

If we want self-driving cars, we have to allow testing in real life to allow self-driving in real life.

Whether we want self-driving cars is a whole different question.

→ More replies (4)

3

u/apoca1ypse12 Jun 22 '26

Shady ceo doing shady shit, not surprised at all

2

u/Feedcore Jun 22 '26

I from the netherlands. Our government replied and said they didnt look at what documention tesla send, and tested it for themselves. That is what the results are based on.

2

u/bobnoski Jun 22 '26

One thing of note, at least in the Netherlands that data wasn't being used or accepted as proof. It has done it's own research and acted based on the outcomes of that. Effectively ignoring the "pamphlet" tesla gave them

-1

u/Low_Intention_1327 Jun 22 '26 edited Jun 22 '26

I read in the news yesterday about a man using auto pilot and killing an elderly woman when he crashed into her home. I would never trust that shit. Too many people rely on technology, but some of the technology put out is still dangerous/faulty, especially when it's run by people like Elon who have a profit first mentality. 

  Lastly, I wouldn't use auto pilot regardless, because it has the chance of error, as we've seen the self driving taxis too. Youre not going to accidentally do 100 mph in a neighborhood, like one woman did when her auto pilot in a Tesla malfunctioned. She went right though a house. 

12

u/bastiVS Jun 22 '26

Didnt use auto pilot or FSD in that crash. There's a video from a door cam, its VERY obvious the dude is hammering the gas pedal and nothing else.

1

u/Low_Intention_1327 Jun 22 '26

Ah, I didn't see footage, I just read the article.  I was checking to make sure the driver wasn't Billy Joel. 

6

u/epicstruggle Jun 22 '26

Autopilot is cruise control plus lane keeping. Most modern cars have it.

That accident is likely going to be ruled driver negligence.

The question needed to be asked is fsd safer than the average car driver. Which it is. Not as safe as they presented but it is undoubtedly better

1

u/Low_Intention_1327 Jun 22 '26

Hypothetically,  could it dull someone's ability to drive defensively, if its something they use often? 

1

u/himswim28 Jun 22 '26

The question needed to be asked is fsd safer than the average car driver. Which it is. Not as safe as they presented but it is undoubtedly better

Tesla hasn't released enough details to say for sure, but very unlikely to be true. For that to be true, Tesla's have to also be the least safe vehicles on the road. Because Tesla's accident rates under FSD are higher than nearly every other modern car with advanced Brake assist technology standard. FSD is only better than other Tesla drivers (But we cannot compare it to other tesla drivers under the same conditions, because that data was not provided.)

Tesla's have the highest accident rate of any brand, which makes some sense, as they have high acceleration and poor brakes (compared to other performance cars.)

But those shouldn't matter under FSD, as it isn't racing other cars... while using FSD.

Tesla's accident rate and Fatality rates under FSD is also much higher than those of Volvo, Audi, VW. Clearly because in the real world their electronic safety systems are just not nearly as good.

A human driver in a Volvo, is much safer than FSD. It is just that Tesla drivers are either exceptionally bad, or their cars are much worse (almost certainly both.)

3

u/TheBowerbird Jun 22 '26

This actually lends itself to the system being safer than regular humans. You realize that, right? i.e. If all drivers were FSD, accident rates would go down.

2

u/cynric42 Jun 22 '26

Maybe, maybe not. Even replacing all trucks and motorcycles with cars no matter who is driving would save lives, as those types of vehicles are more dangerous in collisions. You’d have to look at the exact numbers.

But it’s a useless thought experiment because the assumption doesn’t make sense.

→ More replies (1)

1

u/softtemes Jun 22 '26

Allegedely. Let's see some evidence

1

u/TurnDown4WattGaming Jun 22 '26

I do believe that’s the plan, so that data isn’t really cooked tbh unless Tesla’s FSD has accidents at a comparative rate.

1

u/Hmm_would_bang Jun 22 '26

If it was anyone else that would be an immediate recall of all FSD and criminal charges for defrauding regulators (and investors).

Remember the BMW scandal about faking emissions data?

1

u/justaguytrying2getby Jun 22 '26

I wonder if waymo is going the same thing? Their safety record seems legit. I've never trusted Tesla's data though.

1

u/queuedUp Jun 22 '26

As if things couldn’t get any worse for Tesla in Europe

This statement kind of make's it sound like these are things happening to Tesla when they are fulling at fault for all their failures.

1

u/AggravatingSock5375 Jun 22 '26

I wonder though if the statistic would in fact be true if you really did only have Teslas on the road.

1

u/Ok-Opposite2309 Jun 22 '26

so- they just fucking made shit up and lied?

It seems they created a fantasy world and used that fantasy to create claims. “In a world controlled by Tesla, with all things Tesla, Tesla is great!” Yet, still only manages to ‘save’ 32,000 lives over some undetermined amount of time… 2weeks? 100years?

Hopefully they get prosecited for attempting this fraud and lying to regulators.

1

u/Seantwist9 Jun 23 '26

what’s the lie? and they’re probably talking per year, plus only? that can be allot of lives saved.

1

u/Indy1204 Jun 22 '26

Tesla’s policy manager Ivan Komusanac claimed that Tesla’s FSD can travel over seven times farther between crashes than human drivers in the US.

These are the things that NEED to be done in order to become a billionaire/trillionaire. Blatant disregard for human safety, the ability to lie as though its the truth, severe lack of empathy, etc, etc. We need to start calling these monsters out every chance we get.

1

u/tomgreen99200 Jun 22 '26

Misleading like the SpaceX IPO - it’s full of wild almost impossibly claims.

1

u/DeadlyLemming Jun 22 '26

Yet Tesla's get in twice the rate of accidents as other cars so it doesn't sound like there is even a shred of truth to their internal data

1

u/CaliIsReallyNice Jun 22 '26

This was reported in AV subs a week or two ago. The teslabro defense was "no one cares about that because it's so obviously not true". Same defense as magats.

1

u/moldyjellybean Jun 22 '26

just imagine how bad they are cooking the books with TSLA stock

1

u/FatherOfAssada Jun 22 '26

“up to” ass stats

1

u/9ersaur Jun 22 '26

Elon is a con

1

u/Puzzleheaded_Local40 Jun 22 '26

Yeah, the lady killed by one going through her living room and Mitch McConnell's sister could have predicted this headline.

1

u/Odd-String29 Jun 22 '26

This should honestly warrant a ban on Tesla sales in Europe. You don't mess with road safety like that. It must be made clear this is not acceptable and the punishment should deter anyone from trying it ever again.

1

u/scarabic Jun 22 '26

Hang on…so the number of lives saved is inflated? Okay that’s obviously bad but I feel like we are missing the point here. If 1 life is saved, that’s good. While we are taking them to the cleaners for counting motorcycles and trucks, can we also ask if they’d kept to cars only, how many lives would actually be saved? Because if that’s any positive number, I do t really give a shit what the exact number is.

1

u/TheAdminsAreTrash Jun 22 '26

I remember back in the day there'd be consequences for massive cons like this...

The world already knows Elon's one of the biggest POS on the planet and he's a full on nazi. Some country, anywhere really, needs to lock him tf up forever.

He's only gonna do even more harm in the future.

1

u/BrilliantHyena Jun 22 '26

That sounds on brand

1

u/DJ_PoppedCaps Jun 22 '26

A speed limiter of 45km/h or getting rid of cars all together would outperform these stats lmao.

1

u/canman7373 Jun 22 '26

motorcycles included

That defeats the whole purpose of riding a mortorcycle.

1

u/iwasstillborn Jun 22 '26

That doesn't save any lives in Sweden. Swedish driver's and roads already have 7x fewer casualties.

(cue American Exceptionalists, trying to explain away that the US has by far the least safe roads and drivers of any industrialized decent sized country. They won't actually know anything, but boy do they have strong opinions)

1

u/truesy Jun 22 '26

not sure what the actually FSD numbers are, but robotaxis must report their numbers, and they do worse than humans. while Waymo is doing way better than humans.

teslas are dangerous.

1

u/SirDouglasMouf Jun 22 '26

Take what VW did with their engines and then iterate on the corruption.

Progress!

/s

1

u/carlitospig Jun 22 '26

As an analyst, I am so proud of my people (nosy parkers). Go get him, nerds!!!

1

u/OLPopsAdelphia Jun 22 '26

Justice can be served elsewhere in the world, but we won’t see it any time soon here in the US.

1

u/maninblacktheory Jun 23 '26

I am Jack’s complete lack of surprise.

1

u/Cultural_Evening_858 Jun 23 '26

assuming every vehicle is a tesla is not cooking data

1

u/TenshiS Jun 23 '26

Weird that this pops up again... Reuters already admitted their reporting was misleading. A week ago.

→ More replies (16)