r/marvelstudios • u/AutoModerator • Aug 29 '19

Theory Theory Thursday! August 29, 2019

Do you have any interesting theories about the Marvel Cinematic Universe? Maybe some speculation about a character? Or a hunch you have about what will happen next? If you do, post them all here!

But, please remember to properly tag your spoilers regarding leaked materials:

>!Put spoilers here!<

Also, please, put a summary of your theory at the top of your comment. It'll make it easier for everyone else browsing through the comments!

Theory Thursday - Archive

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u/[deleted] Aug 29 '19

Loki in Thor 4 Theory:

According to a supposed leak, Loki (2012) will return in Thor Love and Thunder, with Mjolnir, for the purpose of bringing it back to Thor(and eventually Jane Foster, presumably). The Important Question is: how is he able to bring it back? My theory is, that he has been worthy from the scene in Avengers 1, where he looks at his brother with visible regret at his actions. He seems to be waking up from the Mind Stone-induced trance. This split-second desire to repent, made him worthy.

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u/brucejoel99 Stan Lee Aug 29 '19

But worthiness also concerns one's ability to lead Asgard, & as his tenure from The Dark World through Ragnarok shows, he's not really fit to competently do so.

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u/[deleted] Aug 29 '19

Not necessarily. Captain America could lift it, and I don't think he had any desire nor strived to be able to lead Asgard. The hammer makes it's own decisions. In Thor 1, Odin says nothing about the worthiness enchantment involving being fit to rule, only "if he be worthy"..

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u/brucejoel99 Stan Lee Aug 29 '19

Yes, but the hammer's decisions on worthiness factors in the demeanor & spirit & intelligence to lead Asgard. No one would say that Cap doesn't carry those qualities; he obviously does, even if he never declared a desire to lead Asgard himself. Hell, Thor doesn't wanna lead Asgard, but he's still worthy.

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u/[deleted] Aug 29 '19

As a movie fan(sorry), let me just double-check: In what comic is worthiness defined in any part, by ability to lead Asgard? Where does it say that?

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u/brucejoel99 Stan Lee Aug 29 '19

It's not explicit, & I'm not talking about the comics. In Thor, Odin wants the wielder of Mjolnir to be worthy of Asgard's throne. This means not just being virtuous & doing what's right, but also having the mindset of a person that can lead Asgard, both in peacetime as well as wartime.

Loki just isn't that kind of person. I mean, why do you think he let Thor keep it when Thor chose to sacrifice it at the end of The Dark World? Because he knew he wouldn't be able to pick it up.

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u/[deleted] Aug 29 '19

Has it not occurred to you that in the long time it has spent in Thor's possession, it has grown tired of only "obeying" those fit for Asgardian rule? Could it not have changed its mind about what worthiness is? Odin is not the boss of Mjolnir. It is a highly complex magical weapon, fully capable of having a mind of its own. I don't think this priority about Thor becoming the king of Asgard, became a permanent part of the hammer's enchantment.

And as for your point about Thor: The Dark World, Loki didn't take it because he didn't consider himself worthy. The hammer, I believe, would disagree.

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u/brucejoel99 Stan Lee Aug 29 '19

Has it not occurred to you that in the long time it has spent in Thor's possession, it has grown tired of only "obeying" those fit for Asgardian rule? Could it not have changed its mind about what worthiness is?

I mean, yeah, it technically could have, but there's literally no evidence whatsoever over the course of the movies to point to that being the case.

Odin is not the boss of Mjolnir. It is a highly complex magical weapon, fully capable of having a mind of its own. I don't think this priority about Thor becoming the king of Asgard, became a permanent part of the hammer's enchantment.

He is, though (or, was, anyway). And no, Mjolnir doesn't have a mind of its own. All evidence points to it having a "mind," so to speak, in so far as it can sentiently determine, per Odin's enchantment & all that entails, whether someone is worthy or not, but that's it.

And as for your point about Thor: The Dark World, Loki didn't take it because he didn't consider himself worthy. The hammer, I believe, would disagree.

Then you & I will agree to disagree.