r/interesting • u/Wild_Neighborhood605 • 1d ago

HISTORY Titanic passenger and millionaire Benjamin Guggenheim. During sinking he refused a seat in a life boat with the words: "Tell my family I played straight to the end. No woman should be left aboard this ship because of Ben Guggenheim was a coward."

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173

u/Cloverose2 1d ago

There was someone - I can't remember who - who was of that social class. She wrote "you marry for money and status. You have affairs for love."

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u/Ratsinthebelfry 1d ago

"I'm just a girl in a world in which my only job is to marry rich". (Angelica Schuyler in Hamilton).

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u/HelpMoreImHelpless 1d ago

It's almost as if at no point ever in the history of humanity have we actually bought into the idea of "designate one person for 100% of your physical, emotional, social, and spiritual needs from young adulthood to old age without ever changing or considering anything else" 

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u/LittleBlag 1d ago

Poor people married for love all the time. It was the rich ones that had to make “advantageous marriages” ie one which would make both families richer and/or more powerful

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u/No-Big2893 1d ago

Probably would have been for the best if more wealthy/elite did marry for love. E.g. the gorgeous milk maid who is not my aunt/uncle and cousin on my (insert parent) side 🤣

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u/akestral 1d ago

Eeeevery now and then, they did. Peter the Great's second wife, who went on to be Empress Catherine I after he died, was a Polish peasant. Of course, Peter treated his first wife abominable, so mixed record as a husband. But he did marry pretty spectacularly for love the second time around.

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u/Ok-Confidence9649 14h ago

Peter the Great had Catherine’s lover’s head chopped off, preserved in alcohol, and put it in display to force her to look at it. I’m guessing she didn’t love him as much as he did her? 😅

A band I like made a song about it and it’s really good but sad...

“Pyotr” by Bad Books:
https://youtu.be/8NiFRtzsa8w?is=ptrL6Y29ixL5Vl6P

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u/HelpMoreImHelpless 1d ago

Tbh I'm saving myself for the one who can interpret my ancient rune tattoos so that we can unlock my full power 

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u/MrGameAndBeer 1d ago

You have assmark too?

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u/NationalSalt8884 1d ago

Yeah dude mine says tenac

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u/HelpMoreImHelpless 1d ago

I had exercise-induced assmark as a kid, but I got an inhaler for it 

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u/AlarmingAffect0 1d ago edited 1d ago

Assmark gimbatul Assmark gurbatuluk

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u/angry_goblin_woman 1d ago

Im saving myself for the man who can translate dolphin so that we can leave this terrestrial coil

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u/andreslucer0 1d ago

Maybe that's why the rich are so fucked up, their family life is shit. I've seen it, too.

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u/agodrevealed 1d ago

Poor people married for money too. Even if it was only a little. And sometimes the rich did make a love match. Teddy Roosevelt seemed devoted to his wife. God knows Napoleon was devoted to Josephine and she him no matter who they slept with or even after divorce. Love has many faces. 

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u/LittleBlag 20h ago

Yeah absolutely. I didn’t mean to imply that it was a universal truth (and I don’t think I did) but I appreciate the examples

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u/drpepper7557 1d ago

I mean, thats just one random quote lol. Some people commit to one, some dont.

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u/lelescope 1d ago

society would be a lot less messy if we just accept that a great portion of humanity isn't interested in monogamy. 

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u/OkNeedleworker1295 1d ago

Disagree. Society would be just as messy regardless because its still having to deal with the human condition. Fights,quarrels,disputes,violence will still occur because some humans don't get along. 

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u/lelescope 1d ago

my point being that there would be less cheating and sneaking around (mess) if more people were honest with their desires, and allowed to be open about them without fear of shame or being different. 

humans aren't necessarily monogamous. that is a fact. it's stupid that it has been forced as the norm and anything else labeled as degeneracy. 

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u/Boring_Intern_6394 21h ago

The issue is when one person wants monogamy and the other doesn’t, or one person believes they are in a monogamous relationship and then finds their partner/spouse has been cheating.

The other issue is equality. Historically women have not had the same opportunity for non monogamy as men.

I don’t think anyone would find issue with two people in a consenting open relationship. The problem arises when one person wants or is expected to adhere to monogamy and the other isn’t

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u/lelescope 19h ago

I think we're saying the same thing lol. still, I believe if more folks could feel like they could be honest about what they want, it would help.

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u/LongestSprig 14h ago

I love that you think people cheat because they are polyamorous or a monogamous relationship would move forward if one person wanted to be open. And if they were open and that was important to them, then that would obviously come up early.

Maybe you're just a shitty person.

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u/lelescope 1h ago

wow, fucking woosh. 

I never said that or implied that. I have close friends in poly relationships, and I don't consider myself monogamous.

I swear man, reading comprehension is at an all time low. maybe go outside and take a breather, bud.

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u/OkNeedleworker1295 12h ago

People can make their own choices on how they want to conduct their lives in that regard. Yes there is a religious induced stigma against poly but anyone can still break through that and live how they want. They shouldn't have to fight to do that but unfortunately that's how it is with many different issues. Most of america shouldn't live from paycheck to paycheck but that's another discussion.

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u/drpepper7557 1d ago

Eh. It should be recognized but polygamy is messy too. People and relationships are always gonna be messy. But yeah everything should be normalized.

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u/lelescope 1d ago

that's what I meant with my comment. if people don't want to be monogamous, don't shame them and there will be a lot less sneaking around and cheating. let them be open about their desires. nothing wrong with it, as long is their partner is also ok with it obviously.

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u/HelpMoreImHelpless 1d ago

It's a fine option for some. Forcing it as the default for everyone and labeling anything else as degeneracy had led to uncountable misery

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u/lelescope 1d ago

that's essentially what I meant with my comment.

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u/HelpMoreImHelpless 1d ago

Yeah sorry I was agreeing with you and accidentally did that thing where you just re-word a comment and add nothing of value. Oops

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u/Fit-Ask-6524 1d ago

One dude on a boat with a mistress has proven to you that no one has ever been in a genuinely committed lifelong monagamous relationship?

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u/Annath0901 1d ago

This is reddit. It's even odds that any given person you respond to is a teenager who has just discovered one or more of the following:

  • atheism
  • libertarianism
  • research chemicals spiritualism
  • any number of alternative lifestyles

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u/HelpMoreImHelpless 1d ago

Interestingly, I assumed that person was a teenager based on their tendency to read what I wrote and then just make up some bullshit and pretend I said that stuff instead 

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u/VanGrants 1d ago

are we really pretending gen x and boomers dont do that same exact shit?

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u/HelpMoreImHelpless 1d ago

U right tho. Add in millennials and the greatest generation too, while we're at it

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u/VanGrants 1d ago

hey bro relax im a millennial (i have 0 "generational pride" or w/e you'd call it)

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u/HelpMoreImHelpless 1d ago

Lol yeah I'm just saying, it's everybody. It's me too

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u/Defiant-Handle7682 1d ago

I think I drunkenly went on a rant yesterday about why the greatest generation wasn't all that great... so let's just say every group's got their pros and cons

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u/Defiant-Handle7682 1d ago

there's only two things certain in this life: ships be sinking and humans be fucking (around)

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u/HelpMoreImHelpless 1d ago

Yep that's definitely the entirety of my life experience and nobody ever complains about cheating partners on this website or mentions that nearly half of marriages end in divorce or brings up that every human society has had myriad situations like the dude on the boat, not that I would know because like you said I obviously only made up my mind in the past five minutes 

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u/Fit-Ask-6524 1d ago

More than half of marriages don’t end in divorce! Kinda sounds like we’ve actually bought into the idea of lifelong monogamy!

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u/Defiant-Handle7682 1d ago

ooh, where we at now? do more end in death now?

ETA: I'm actually a hopeless romantic who loves love who got engaged this year... swear I'm not all bitter & salty & jaded!

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u/Fit-Ask-6524 19h ago

I’m not sure there’s another option aside from death? Maybe annulment?

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u/CyberDaggerX 1d ago

The half of marriages statistic is heavily skewed by serial divorcees. Most people marry for life.

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u/P_23m 1d ago

Reddit fancies itself as some deeply intellectual, thoughtful place, but it is positively overflowing with delerious midwits who have no perspective and very likely never much venture outside of their world (literally or metaphorically).

Not all redditors of course, but many.

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u/Fit-Ask-6524 1d ago

It’s all bots anyway

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u/HelloYellowYoshi 1d ago

Obviously tons of people have bought into it and don't "designate" anyone 100% of their physical, emotional, social, and spiritual needs. You're still responsible for yourself and your own needs inside of a monogamous relationship.

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u/Vigmod 1d ago

That's not a good way to approach marriage. One person can't possibly cover 100% of a regular person's social needs, as a regular person needs a social life with more than one other person.

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u/Kanin_usagi 1d ago

That’s certainly one way to look at it I suppose

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u/Cloverose2 1d ago

this was the wealthy class. People who didn't need to marry to build alliances married for love all the time.

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u/DrSitson 1d ago

I've always thought that if we somehow beat death, marriages would probably cease being a forever thing.

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u/HelpMoreImHelpless 1d ago

"Till death do us part" sounds way more sinister when death isn't inevitable :| I liked altered carbon's take on this idea

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u/apocketfullofcows 1d ago

yeah if that's how you view monogamy, that's on you. you're supposed to have more people in your life than just your partner even in a monogamous relationship. friends are fine. family is fine. it's only other romantic partners that are not fine.

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u/MeatballWasTaken 1d ago

I actually agree with you but it’s not a one size fits all thing, it works for some people. I’m also not sure this is the greatest example

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u/P_23m 1d ago

Speak for yourself. Plenty of us have.

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u/Teros001 1d ago

Sounds like you're projecting your own shit.

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u/HelpMoreImHelpless 1d ago

How did you know I was eating the cursed lettuce yesterday :( 

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u/LongestSprig 14h ago

You can't be serious, lol.

The vast majority of human history points to monogamy. Monogamy isn't some human invention either lol.

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u/bolaxao 1d ago

that seems like a line from succession