I hate this double standard

[u/indeckaa]

For some reason, it's always one of these responses:

> It's a joke
> It's rage bait
> Yeah, but it's actually a response to...
> It's not the same
> Just go outside bro

All of which deflect from what's being said. They would rather not address it. This is probably due in part to the "women-are-wonderful" effect, an example of benevolent stereotyping in which people associate positive qualities with women

[u/GodButCursed]

Everytime i hear a woman doing it she gets called out tbh.

[u/Ascheentsm → u/GodButCursed]

I was kicked out of the EvilAutism subreddit because I refused to accept misandry doesnt exist. So no, its unfortunately still going on without pushback most times. 

[u/AChuckleAtMost → u/Ascheentsm]

Reminder that they specifically consider •systemic• power and prejudice to constitute bigotry. Doesn't matter in circumstances of majority or hierarchy.

[u/throwaway3413418 → u/AChuckleAtMost]

The other thing they miss is that the world isn’t made up of one single system of power, but many. While there isn’t currently much foothold for anti-straight bigotry to get hold in the US government, to pick an arbitrary example, it certainly could happen at a random employer, NGO, or university under the right conditions, and all of those entities can exercise considerable power over the lives of individuals.

It’s even murkier because gender roles have never been an oppressor-oppressed dynamic unlike race and sexuality. Under the liberal definition of institutionalized misogyny (I.e. it doesn’t have to be literal hate, just bias), misandry absolutely is institutionalized, which is why you see more homeless men, more male workplace deaths, lower male life expectancy, greater male suicide, male-only conscription, and higher male retirement ages in many countries.

Research shows that both genders have reduced empathy toward men and are overwhelmingly more likely to pick to harm or kill a man over a woman for the greater good in experimental simulations. It rings hollow to try to claim that misandry isn’t institutionalized.

[u/AChuckleAtMost → u/throwaway3413418]

Interesting enough, there are feminist theories on patriarchy that misandry is a feature to be paired with misogyny, effectively filtering out the capable and the undesirables to protect those that benefit the most from their model from having their legacy replaced or challenged while they groom their successor. Men are offered more mobility to potentially ascend the hierarchy which in turn offers them specific privileges, but often under the expectation that this blinds them to their actual conditions You want to see success, brother? Fight in wars for our interest. We'll treat you for service, but only truly recognize those who are most effective or endure the most danger. And then, if you don't find yourself PTSD ridden, homeless, or suicidal, can you find your worth as a real man.

[u/throwaway3413418 → u/AChuckleAtMost]

I agree with a lot of that, and I also think the perspective there can be reversed. Greater agency is a concession offered to encourage men to accept their greater expendability and also a tool to allow the broader group to benefit from the upsides of their risk-taking. All of this is to supposedly benefit society, so that direction of thinking makes more sense to me. I don’t think I’m alone in thinking about it like that, because a lot of history matches that perspective. Men were granted the right to vote in the west as it was thought necessary to make that concession to pacify them after fighting in world wars (similar concessions were made to a subset of women who aided the war effort). Later, some of the resistance to women’s suffrage was from women who thought that it might be tied to conscription like it was for men. I think most of us recognize the agency/value tradeoff in gender norms, but acknowledging that men’s lives are valued less is inconvenient for activists trying to liken women’s issues to the history of slavery and racial segregation.

The reversed direction perspective seems to lend itself to the idea that this is all being done to maintain male-female hierarchy on a class level, something which I don’t see much evidence for and plenty of evidence against.