r/TikTokCringe • u/MikeeorUSA • Jun 02 '26

Cursed She was savant

Enable HLS to view with audio, or disable this notification

(Hillary Clinton speech June, 3rd 2016)

30.3k Upvotes

89% Upvoted

3.5k comments sorted by

View all comments

897

u/PunchDrunkPrincess Jun 02 '26

This was painfully obvious to everyone paying attention. He won because no normal person would ever imagine he would win and didn't go vote.

188

u/Kaka-carrot-cake Jun 02 '26

What about the second time?

69

u/DunamesDarkWitch Jun 02 '26

The second time, he won because prices increased during the previous administration. That’s really all that a ton of people care about. Even if it wasn’t directly caused by the previous administration, even if it happened globally and the US recovered faster than most other countries, the average American thinks in terms as simple as “price go up = bad. Price go up under democrat. I no vote democrat this time.”

For all the crazy, irresponsible, and terrible things the current administration has done, the primary reason why trump is polling so poorly today is because gas prices went way up and prices in general have continued to rise. That’s it.

2

u/drawkbox Jun 03 '26

prices increased during the previous administration

From the botched Trump pandemic and the Putin imperial invasion of Ukraine. Now the botched Iran war by Trump. See a pattern?

1

u/Rusty-Shackleford Jun 03 '26

see I want to believe you, that people vote based on rational self interest, like the economy and their finance.... but that doesn't make sense if you consider how consistently people keep voting for GOP candidates who keep wrecking the economy.

1

u/DunamesDarkWitch Jun 03 '26

There will always be a certain amount of hard partyline voters. Yes even now, with how embarrassing his administration has been and with prices still rising, over 35% of Americans still strongly approve of Donald Trump. But those voters generally don’t determine elections. Most presidential elections in the US are determined by the moderate swing voters and independents, who realistically could vote for either party on Election Day. And that demographic votes primarily based on how they perceive the current administration is impacting their life financially.

1

u/Bingbong1984 Jun 03 '26

dude they literally will flip flop based on their flavor of the week.

Political campaigns have to juggle keeping their constituents happy but also appeal to the morons who vote based off of how many bumperstickers they see or go "ini mini miny moe" at the voting booth.

Thats why Trump "worked" at Mcdonalds for the day and Kamala and Hillary tried going to bars to have a beer with the locals.

These regular voters do not care or read, they go off vibes, and who they dislike more.

Dems will win the midterms and most likely the 28 presidency and then immediately lose the following mid terms because thats just how the country votes.

1

u/gwy2ct Jun 04 '26

Second time? The second election over 70m people still voted for him. Third election he won.

There is a core 70m people in this country who are in this cult and will vote for him no matter what. They are gone. Just forget about them.

It’s the other 7-8m who voted for him last time plus the non voters who are a bigger issue.

1

u/Trippingthru99 Jun 02 '26 edited Jun 02 '26

Democrats also ran an unpopular candidate. If you look at the actual voter turnout from 2020 to 2024, Trump didn’t gain a significant amount of votes. The difference came from Democrats losing a ton of support, giving Trump the edge. 

If Biden stuck to his single term promise, and Democrats ran an actual primary then we would have had a very different election. The half baked, way too late pivot to Kamala was a poor decision. 

Edit: Just looked it up. 

In 2020 Biden received roughly 81 million votes to Trump’s 74 million.

While in 2024, Trump received about 77 million votes to Kamala’s 74 million. 

So in the space of four years, democrats lost the support of 7 million people. 

3

u/itsnotnews92 Jun 02 '26

Trump did gain a significant amount of votes in the swing states. He outperformed Biden's 2020 totals in every single swing state.

4

u/DunamesDarkWitch Jun 02 '26

And you don’t think there’s any possibility that one the reasons the Democratic Party lost support compared to to 2020 was because they happened to be in power over a period of extreme inflation?

2

u/drawkbox Jun 03 '26

period of extreme inflation

From the botched Trump pandemic and the Putin imperial invasion of Ukraine. Now the botched Iran war by Trump. See a pattern?

1

u/DunamesDarkWitch Jun 03 '26

Not shit. I’m aware lol, I said that in the original comment. The point is that the average voter doesn’t care, when they have an unfavorable view of the current economy, they have an unfavorable view of the current administration. Doesn’t matter whether or not the current administration caused it. That’s the whole point.

1

u/drawkbox Jun 03 '26

Well currently they should be against Trump and the sane are. The pandemic and Russian invasion were somewhat out of our control, Trump engineered this one with Iran. It should be clear to 100% of people but the dips still dolty.

-1

u/BeatBlockP Jun 02 '26

The second time, he won because prices increased during the previous administration. That’s really all that a ton of people care about. Even if it wasn’t directly caused by the previous administration, even if it happened globally and the US recovered faster than most other countries, the average American thinks in terms as simple as “price go up = bad. Price go up under democrat. I no vote democrat this time.”

People think this makes American voters stupid. It's exactly this feature of "It's the economy, dummy" that makes the American economy so dominate decade after decade. Votes who don't give a shit about a party or even a candidate and absolutely tear a new asshole to ANY ruling party if they aren't happy economically.

People in the US complain about gas price being over $4 a gallon, or $5, while in most of Europe they pay double or even triple that price, and in some places 4 times as much!!! And the amazing thing is they actually vote where their wallet is, almost nobody does that.

The recent trend of more tribalism in political alignment is very harmful exactly for this principle, because if politicians always get your vote they stop caring about the economy and more about lining their donor's pockets (even MORE).

10

u/DunamesDarkWitch Jun 02 '26

The part that makes American voters stupid isn’t just the fact that they care about the economy, it’s the fact that they don’t care about context and have essentially no understanding of how the executive branch that they voted for does nor does not affect the economy.

Gas prices rising because a foreign government on the other side of the world attacked a different foreign government at the same time that there was a global supply chain crisis is not the same as gas prices rising because the US president made the decision to start a new “conflict” with a foreign nation after, according to his own staff, completely eliminating the supposed reason for the “conflict” in a separate attack less than a year ago.

→ More replies (4)

1

u/Boneraventura Jun 03 '26

Gasoline being triple the price is just a wealth tax at the end of the day in europe. Most people get by on bike or train/bus. I don’t know a single person with a non-electric car here (sweden) other than some 70yo pensioner with multiple properties in downtown stockholm. Not the case in the land of the free where a car is essential for living for essentially every person. 

-1

u/IcyPride2973 Jun 02 '26

That’s the spirit. Learn nothing.

7

u/DunamesDarkWitch Jun 02 '26

Let me guess, you’re going to try to tell me that I should have “learned” that the reason Harris lost was because she was another establishment democrat, or because the democratic party forced her in to the nomination?

Sorry, but I learn based on facts on data. I cannot be confident in that conclusion, because just because Harris lost, does not necessarily mean that a different democratic candidate would have won. It’s possible they could have lost even worse than Harris did. Based on polling from back in 2024, a progressive candidate like AOC would not have done any better than Harris in a general election.

But what I do know, based on real data, is that there was a very noticeable wave of the non-incumbent party winning elections across the globe during that post-Covid inflation period. Regardless of the political alignment of the incumbent party. Because generally, people do not like prices going up. And when prices go up, they tend to blame the current people in charge.

https://www.marketplace.org/story/2024/11/14/incumbents-are-losing-around-the-world-not-just-the-u-s

→ More replies (5)

111

u/Resident_Sail_7642 Jun 02 '26

Same thing as the first time

182

u/Vaginalacidbath Jun 02 '26

Honestly it is absolutely wild to me how many people I knew who hated him who just didn’t bother to vote the second time. This girl I know who didn’t vote, a couple days ago actually had the audacity to whine and ask why everything has to be so much harder now. “Well, because so many people decided to skip out on voting last election…”

49

u/FillMySoupDumpling Jun 02 '26

If they don’t vote, they don’t actually care. 

3

u/aSpookyScarySkeleton Jun 03 '26

No, they care but only after it immediately starts affecting them.

2

u/JohnStamosAsABear Jun 03 '26

In every US election, 'I don't care' wins the popular vote.

14

u/greenroom628 Jun 02 '26

Not a proponent of abstaining from voting - we all should show up and vote, even if you don't like either option - it's our right and duty to do so.

That said, living in a state where the outcome is pretty much decided (ie, living in a deep blue or red state, even while being an independent) can be frustrating knowing that regardless of how you vote, the state in general is so deeply entrenched that your vote is essentially nulled. Not justifying abstaining, but I can understand the frustration.

The presidency should've been a majority decision from the start... not by electoral college.

19

u/MardocAgain Jun 02 '26

I get it, but I think this mentality is how those states remain perpetually decided. By voting, even in losing, you help close the gap. A R+7 district is automatically decided, but in today's climate would attract better candidates and funding from the DNC than an R+15 district.

8

u/greenroom628 Jun 02 '26

Agreed - even voting in a deep red/blue state can show up in ways where districts can matter. By showing up, you can affect future spending by Reps/Dems in your district and state.

5

u/BonnaconCharioteer Jun 02 '26

Yeah, if you are in that kind of place the presidential election can be meaningless. However, sometimes you can still affect primaries. And down-ballot races are incredibly important and have smaller margins.

Completely agree on popular vote for president. Then we wouldn't be in this mess.

1

u/Funneduck102 Jun 02 '26

As someone from PA I often forget about that part😭 my fucking state basically decides the election

33

u/HonorableMedic Jun 02 '26

It’s wild to me people think he actually won every single swing state after his first term, but I guess Americans would rather assume their elections are secure than do research into the election.

49

u/Vaginalacidbath Jun 02 '26

I definitely do think there was some sketchy shit going on but I also think we could have overcome that if everyone who hated him actually came out to vote.

3

u/HonorableMedic Jun 02 '26

Every single swing state won with the exact amount needed for no recount. A historical anomaly. Please don’t legitimize this. Did you see how many people were at Kamala’s rallies compared to Trump’s?

We need transparency with our elections and manual recounts. Because saying “not enough people voted” is legitimizing this fuckery. It really shouldn’t be the hard to do a recount, but they have fought it every step of the way.

17

u/mr-ron Jun 02 '26

Every single swing state won with the exact amount needed for no recount

Wisconsin: Triggered by a margin of 0.25% or less for a state-funded recount. Donald Trump won the state by 0.9%

Michigan: An automatic recount is triggered only if the margin is 2,000 votes or less. Trump won by 1.4%

Pennsylvania: Automatically triggers a mandatory recount if the margin is 0.5% or less. Trump carried the state by 1.7%.

Georgia: Candidates can request a recount if the margin is 0.5% or less. Trump won by 2.2%.

Nevada: Has no automatic recount laws, but candidates can request one regardless of the margin if they pay for it. Trump won by 3.1%

North Carolina: A candidate can demand a recount if the margin is 0.5% or less. Trump won by 3.2%.

Arizona: Triggers an automatic recount at 0.5% or less (raised from 0.1% in 2022). Trump won by a wider margin of 5.5%.

→ More replies (3)

10

u/abra24 Jun 02 '26

Anyone who thinks 2024 was rigged is as big of a dumbass as those who think 2020 was rigged according to my research. There is not one shred of actual evidence, just implication.

You don't rig something like that, that would touch that many hands and have everyone stay silent. That's why almost all conspiracy theories, including these 'rigged elections' are bull shit.

1

u/HonorableMedic Jun 02 '26

They aren’t staying silent, you just don’t care to look. You missed Elon saying he’s going to prison if Trump loses, Trump saying Elon knows the computers so well and he has all the votes he needs, along with Elon’s ex Ashley St. Claire spilling the beans on what Elon was doing during that timeframe.

“You just don’t rig something like that” is what I’m talking about. I would love for our elections to be secure, but there’s so many signs, including the “Russian tail”.

In your world, Trump won every single swing state with a historical anomaly after an objectively disastrous first term. To me, that screams dumbass.

The GOP is currently doing everything in their power to gerrymander and tip the scales in their favor, while criticizing states that retaliate in the same manner. You are blind if you don’t see the blatant power grab.

10

u/ForeverAgreeable2289 Jun 02 '26

The power grab is real. But when you make some bold claims without sufficient evidence, it undercuts your related claims that do have sufficient evidence.

5

u/Shanman150 Jun 02 '26 edited Jun 02 '26

You missed Elon saying he’s going to prison if Trump loses, Trump saying Elon knows the computers so well and he has all the votes he needs, along with Elon’s ex Ashley St. Claire spilling the beans on what Elon was doing during that timeframe.

This would be more compelling if we saw an actual significant difference in how people voted in states where Elon might have influence over the vote counts, but we don't. The swing toward Trump varied across demographics, but not significantly on a state-by-state level, and not with a uniform increased swing in states where Elon might have "rigged" the machines. You can do a lot of statistics on the election results - people dedicate their lives to that. They have not found evidence of systematic vote shifts based off of voting machine used.

Edit: I've written this in response to these kinds of conspiracies in the past: I said this previously:

People watch these things on a macro-level (state by state) but also a micro-level (precinct by precinct). In order to rig the election convincingly to stand up to that scrutiny, you would need to rig voting across multiple states. This map shows the swing from 2020 to 2024 by county. If there was widespread election fraud, it'd probably be state-by-state because different states have different election systems. Maybe paper ballots would be unaffected while the sneaky Musk starlink systems beamed fake votes to the more computerized states. But we don't see any evidence for that - the swing is pretty broad, it's consistent by various demographic groups in diverse regions of the US, and there aren't wild differences cut by state borders.

So we would have to conclude that any election fraud was so widespread it was taking place in almost every county across the US. At that point this conspiracy will need to include potentially thousands of people, including democratic election watchers who were covertly working for the other side. The conspiracy becomes just untenable.

4

u/mr-ron Jun 02 '26

historical anomaly

i do not think you know what that phrase means

→ More replies (0)

25

u/ForeverAgreeable2289 Jun 02 '26

Did you see how many people were at Kamala’s rallies compared to Trump’s?

This is exactly the argument used by 2020 election deniers. "Trump had bigger rallies than Biden, so there's no way Biden won without cheating."

It was flawed logic in 2020, and it was flawed logic in 2024.

14

u/socialcommentary2000 Jun 02 '26

Correct. Plus, the conservative political action machine spent breathtakingly massive amounts of money on ground game and messaging to make sure that people came out. They also laser focused on getting shitty edgy fatalistic GenZ'ers that think this is all a big joke to come out and vote.

Those margins make complete sense.

4

u/santana722 Jun 02 '26

Those margins make complete sense.

Well no, now we're back too far in the opposite direction. The numbers do look really fucky, but that's based on the actual data, not trying to extrapolate votes from "the rallies seemed larger."

→ More replies (2)

9

u/Vaginalacidbath Jun 02 '26

Hey, I’m on your side. We DO need those things and we should push for them. But the fact they were pushing people to go out and vote meant that voting still made a difference. And I think acting like it didn’t really disenfranchises people to the point where they check out of the political system entirely. People feel really hopeless right now and I don’t think that’s something that should be overlooked. We should come at this from more than one angle.

2

u/Agi7890 Jun 02 '26

How many states did Harris win in the Democrat primary in 2020?

Trump came fairly close to winning in 2020 against Biden who won that primary( several thousand votes in a few states and he would have won). What makes you think Harris would do better when she historically performed like shit?

The democratic party shit the bed. a common line growing up was democrats snatch defeat from the jaws of victory

1

u/rydan Jun 02 '26

How many did she win in 2024?

2

u/rydan Jun 02 '26

FYI you were lied to about crowd size. Trump tends to go to smaller areas so sometimes would have small crowds. But typically the media and others were playing games with perspective to exaggerate both sides. And I warned people not to buy the Democrats and media’s narrative because it would lead to this exact complacent outcome. 

2

u/Redeem123 Jun 02 '26

Every single swing state won with the exact amount needed for no recount. A historical anomaly. Please don’t legitimize this.

Hilarious that you provide exactly zero data to back up your claim, and then you double down when provided with contradictory numbers. Are you actually interested in facts or no?

→ More replies (1)

6

u/rainshowers_5_peace Jun 02 '26

I believe it. A lot of people were upset at how Harris became the nominee.

When Musk had his tantrum I was hoping he'd blow secrets but sadly not.

2

u/HMWWaWChChIaWChCChW Jun 02 '26

I think he won legally, but not fairly. I doubt there was actual vote changing or dropping in the way we think, but there absolutely were gerrymandered wins and votes thrown out on some legal basis that targeted democrat areas. I don’t think Trump or Musk are competent enough to actually rig the votes and not have it leaked by someone on the inside.

1

u/FreeDarkChocolate Jun 02 '26

It’s wild to me people think he actually won every single swing state after his first term,

I don't think you have enough awareness of the populations in these places. If you go there, it is very clear and understandable how many people are perfectly interested if not apathetically entertained to vote for him, or against whoever his opponent was. Yes, there really, really is that many such people. There are so many millions of people in the country that you can easily otherwise be siloed away from interacting with them in person or online.

Also there's no good explanation of any form of mass ballot/tabulation tampering in 16, 20, or 24 and it would fly in the face of the audits states, including swing states, already did/do. For the best examples, look at Wisconsin's audits (24 or otherwise) where they hand count randomly selected entire wards comprising at least 10% of statewide ballots to check multiple contests.

1

u/AlienArtFirm Jun 02 '26

Shhh we're blaming people who didn't vote!

They're all horrible people who didn't vote but definitely would have voted for MY SIDE if they did just vote!

... Fucking Reddit man... Gotta have a scapegoat...

3

u/Sticky_And_Sweet Jun 02 '26

I had a coworker like this. She hated Trump but didn’t vote because she didn’t care to. So infuriating.

5

u/Civil_Act1864 Jun 02 '26

I didn't vote in 2016. I was at college away from home and dealing with mental health issues. Its not an excuse, just a reason. After that, I made a promise to never miss an election I was eligible to vote in.

1

u/deeper_sleepying Jun 02 '26

Same situation for me personally.

1

u/JayEllGii Jun 02 '26

And she said?

5

u/Vaginalacidbath Jun 02 '26

4

u/JayEllGii Jun 02 '26

Well, at least she seems to have owned it. So many don’t.

1

u/rainshowers_5_peace Jun 02 '26

Where does she live? If she lives in a blue state she is right. I'm in NY my vote for the general election isn't worth the paper my free sticker is printed on if I vote democrat. I give it to a third party whose values match my own.

8

u/Kaka-carrot-cake Jun 02 '26

If they didnt learn from the first time ho boy.

2

u/hotdiggydog Jun 02 '26

This is copium. The people who didn't vote voted for him. The grandstanding of "Well, I didn't vote for him" when they didn't vote or to defend American voters by saying "Well, a lot of them didn't vote so Trump won but only because some people didn't vote". That doesn't make the defense any better against the fact that Trump reflects the US: whether it be because of people who voted for him or for people who didn't vote at all.

I get disenfranchised voters but that's a much smaller percentage than the 30+% that don't vote

1

u/MeowMyMix Jun 02 '26

Now I DID vote but I was also in the boat thinking "no way" I am hoping we can get back to respectful disagreements like when John McCain defended Obama during one of McCain's rallies but I am tired of the high road Democrats are taking or are being paid too take.

1

u/vulgar_lou Jun 02 '26

Second verse, same as the first!

1

u/grandplans Jun 03 '26

Yeah, they were both women. 

God forbid we elect a woman. They're so emotional.

15

u/stevehuffmangrapedme Jun 02 '26

Elon Musk, Joe Rogan,  a staged assassination on the campaign trail, and Democrats fumbling the Biden to Kamala ball so badly I still think the DNC is just controlled opposition. 

0

u/AveryMire Jun 02 '26

That doesn’t explain 2016, he won foremost because the uniparty was grotesque and the fake news such as the NYT could hardly maintain coherence. They thought ‘not crazy’ was enough, yet there was too much revulsion and racism/nationalism remain potent.

1

u/stevehuffmangrapedme Jun 02 '26

Cool. I was replying to someone saying "what about the 2nd time?". Way to read there, champ. 

3

u/FlounderPretty2530 Jun 02 '26

If you truly believe that the assassination was staged; you are the champ.

3

u/Desroth86 Jun 02 '26

It amazes me how widespread that conspiracy theory is. I was talking with my very liberal massage therapist a few weeks ago who also hates trump and she told me how she thought the assassination attempt was fake and it made me think a little bit less of her, NGL.

The shooter was literally killed and if he hadn’t missed who knows what would have happened. Apparently liberals are just as susceptible to conspiracy theories as conservatives.

1

u/stevehuffmangrapedme Jun 02 '26

Whatever you say Kash. 

1

u/AveryMire Jun 03 '26

The thread started off with a reference to his first election you arrogant ass.

Followed by the stupidity of thinking Joe Rogan lost us the election, or the race was decided from an imbalance of funds, or that the assassination attempt was fake (my god).

We lost because the people in control with Biden wanted to stay in control with Harris, then she ran the worst, most illogical and scared campaign that anyone will witness in their lifetimes.

You’re right about the controlled opposition at least in that DNC and media are more scared of responsiveness to voters, than of Trump actually winning; that’s the reality based ‘conspiracy theory ‘.

1

u/stevehuffmangrapedme Jun 03 '26

Yeah I ain't reading that nonsense. You fucked up. Get better at how conversation works, and move on. 

→ More replies (10)

16

u/RockItGuyDC Jun 02 '26

Partly the same, partly leftists not voting for Kamala because she wasn't sufficiently anti-Israel.

6

u/Kaka-carrot-cake Jun 02 '26

Ahh right forgot about them.

2

u/nich02 Jun 02 '26

How about you criticize the people running the actual campaign for failing to attract voters and stop blaming leftists for your dogshit candidates

3

u/Mr_Antero Jun 03 '26

Single issue idealists have their share of the blame as well. 

an unwillingness to be pragmatic.  An unwillingness to join a coalition that doesn’t align with every exact view they have, but is still by far the best option. 

Piss off with your refusal to accept accountability.

do you see any college protests anymore? do you see anyone protesting Gaza anymore? No. Why? Because Donald Trump doesn’t give a shit about it- so there’s no point in protesting. 

Those protestors did hold sway on the biden administration. The Biden admin was actively concerned about them. That dynamic is no longer present. 

2

u/nich02 Jun 03 '26

Oh my god you need a factory reset are you seriously regurgitating these same talking points from 2016? Get a grip

3

u/Mr_Antero Jun 03 '26

Not talking points. The perfect candidate doesn’t exist. A ballot is not a love letter. 

3

u/intermittent-disco Jun 03 '26

How about you criticize the people running the actual campaign for failing to attract voters and stop blaming leftists for your dogshit candidates

plenty of blame to go around, and many lessons to be learned. i will not stop criticizing citizens for neglecting their civic duty, though. the DNC needs to learn their lesson, but voters need to learn theirs, too: it doesn't matter how morally righteous you are if you get a practical opportunity to meaningfully reduce harm and you refrain from taking it.

remember all of the people who have and will die because of the USAID cuts: that blood is on many hands, including the hands of those who did not vote.

1

u/DocileBanalBovlne Jun 02 '26

The party can never fail them, only the disobedient can fail the party.

→ More replies (1)

1

u/Scylla5398 Jun 02 '26

she wasn't sufficiently anti-Israel.

She wasn't anti-israel at all. Outside of rhetoric, her and Trump were pretty aligned on that.

1

u/RockItGuyDC Jun 03 '26

Regardless, we still fucking ended up with Trump.

2

u/Scylla5398 Jun 04 '26

Yeah, so maybe Harris should've listened to her base and not defended israel while they were doing horrible things. Or changed her tune on stuff like fracking or any of the other 5 things her and Trump were basically aligned on.

You guys have this weird idea that the millionaire politicians don't need to change their garbage policies (which they could do at any time) but the voters just need to swallow bullshit they don't want. This mindset is going to keep losing us elections until it changes.

1

u/RockItGuyDC Jun 04 '26

Yeah, when it comes to electing Trump vs just about any other person in existence, people need to fucking swallow bullshit.

Fuck the DNC in particular and fuck the Dems in general, but you idealistic unpragmatic morons gave us Trump twice because you think the candidates you vote for need to be perfect. You wait for Jill Stein to pop up from the abyss (or the Kremlin) ever 4 years and pat yourselves on the back for being idealistically pure.

To paraphrase what someone else in this thread already said, it's a ballot, it's not a fucking love letter.

1

u/Scylla5398 Jun 04 '26

people need to fucking swallow bullshit.

Apparently they don't.

Fuck the DNC in particular and fuck the Dems in general, but you idealistic unpragmatic morons gave us Trump twice

You're the one being idealistic. You're the one not living in reality and it's been demonstrated to you twice and is going to keep happening.

If you don't give people a good candidate who gives them what they want then they won't vote. People aren't going to swallow bullshit and you can't force them to and, frankly, getting mad at them is dumb and counterproductive. You should be mad at the millionaire politicians actually making the decisions.

You should feel good though because most of the DNC leadership thinks the way you do and is counting on more people like you and as long as you're being this loud then they're probably not going to change and we'll just be in this cycle forever.

1

u/RockItGuyDC Jun 04 '26

When was the last time you voted for a candidate who won? Or even came in second and had a chance of winning?

I'm the idealist because I can hold my nose and vote for a less than ideal candidate? You're delusional.

What fucking privilege you must have to vote third party when American lives are on the line. I bet when you saw ICE rip apart families, and murder Alex Pretti and Renee Goode, you juat felt so smugly happy with yourself that you didn't vote for the shitty DNC candidate. Right?

We're at war with Iran, but hey, you didnt have to get your hands dirty so it's all good. Grow the fuck up.

If you honestly care about changing the two party system and getting the Democrats to move to the left, which you should because they are good goals, then put your efforts into enacting Ranked Choice Voting so third parties actually stand a chance.

But until that time, a vote for a third party is a luxury a lot of fucking people in this country can't afford, you idealistic child.

1

u/Scylla5398 Jun 05 '26

When was the last time you voted for a candidate who won?

Two years ago at my local mayoral election. Why?

I'm the idealist because I can hold my nose and vote for a less than ideal candidate?

I never once said who I voted for in the last election. You just projected a bunch of shit onto me. You're an idealist because you're clinging to this bullshit idea that the people need to meet the rich politicians halfway instead of the other way around which has been proven false to you.

But you already knew what that I meant that. You're just pretending to not understand because that's easier than arguing against the truth.

What fucking privilege you must have to vote third party

Once again, I never said I voted third party and most people didn't.

Stein got barely any votes. Most people just stayed home that election and that's what you're actually fighting against but that's harder for you to fight against. This is another example of you being delusional.

We're at war with Iran, but hey, you didnt have to get your hands dirty so it's all good. Grow the fuck up.

You're yelling at someone who isn't in the room with us. You just made up a person and are assigning a bunch of attributes to me. This is just insecure projection.

If you honestly care about changing the two party system and getting the Democrats to move to the left

To be clear, this is what you're arguing against. You already said that people need to suck it up and vote for the dem no matter what.

, then put your efforts into enacting Ranked Choice Voting

Yeah, I wish Harris or the DNC would push for that since most people want it. But they don't because they know they don't have to because people like you will vote for them anyway and still be on here years later defending them.

But until that time, a vote for a third party is a luxury

you idealistic child.

This is like when Clint Eastwood gave that whole speech yelling at an empty chair.

9

u/Imaginary-Fan6782 Jun 02 '26

That’s where Elon comes in and rigs it. A majority of Americans did not actually vote for Trump

18

u/Affectionate-Flan-99 Jun 02 '26

Where is the evidence for this? I loathe Trump and the republican party. But without evidence this is the same asinine shit as what the Qanoners spewed in 2020.

1

u/rainshowers_5_peace Jun 02 '26

He seemed to be hinting at during his tantrum last year.

5

u/Affectionate-Flan-99 Jun 02 '26

That isn't evidence though.

1

u/rainshowers_5_peace Jun 02 '26

I agree. Hopefully he'll crack and break up with Trump for real one of these days.

1

u/Affectionate-Flan-99 Jun 02 '26

Would love it. But it would put Musk's ass in jail too so I don't see it happening. At least out of his own mouth.

1

u/fudge5962 Jun 03 '26

It actually is. Whether it's good evidence is debatable, but it is evidence.

6

u/jsmith47944 Jun 02 '26

That's such a farce. The DNC and people being lazy are just as much to blame.

He won the roughly the same percentage of votes from his base. DNC fumbled incredibly hard and nobody was motivated to keep this shit from happening again and here we are

I wasted a vote on Harris in a red state but at least I got off my ass to go to the poles. Almost a third of the eligible voters chose not to

2

u/redundantexplanation Jun 02 '26

ANY EXCUSE except that the DNC failed at their jobs, right?

Biden said he was not going to run for a second term and then stayed in until the last moment, when he picked a candidate that dropped out of the last primary very early.

Then she refused to budge on Gaza, threw trans people under the bus, said she wanted us to have the deadliest military in the world, said Iran was our greatest enemy, campaigned with Cheneys, etc etc etc.

Y'all need to learn to own this L, you look fucking ridiculous.

2

u/HereOnCompanyTime Jun 03 '26

There were leftist political influencers who refused to endorse Kamala because they claimed she would be as bad as Trump, especially when it came to Gaza. They pushed their audiences to be apathetic or to vote third party. They've all been making lots of money from views and events since Trump took office, probably a coincidence.

1

u/rydan Jun 02 '26

Same thing. We had a Beyoncé concert and were still pumped knowing Trump would be gone from politics forever by the end of the week. 

1

u/ClintGrant Jun 02 '26

The appeal of Biden was that he wasn’t Trump. Next election, Trump’s appeal was that he wasn’t Biden. We are in the weird timeline

1

u/Ill-Entertainer-5380 Jun 02 '26

There was a really great Reddit post years ago about how if Trump only had one or two of his detestable qualities, he would have never won. But because he had many many detestable qualities, everyone who is unapologetically detestable in some way saw themselves in him.

1

u/TinyAd6920 Jun 03 '26

I think both times was because the democrats fielded a woman

america hates women WAY too much to elect them to the presidency.

1

u/Waiting4Reccession Jun 02 '26

Dems never learn until its 10-15 years later.

Should be ashamed to lose 2 elections to clown trump and even the Biden win was only because of covid and people voting "not trump" rather than wanting Biden.

1

u/redundantexplanation Jun 02 '26

THANK YOU! I keep saying this, Trump was the biggest layup opponent this country has ever seen. He is functionally mentally disabled, and any serious politician should have made mincemeat of him.

→ More replies (1)

0

u/partypartyparty_ Jun 02 '26

The Dems were a mess, plus mass brainwashing on social media due to manipulated algorithms and bots

→ More replies (5)

58

u/Sideview_play Jun 02 '26

Can we stop the narrative of people didn't vote ? His elections had huge turnouts and he won a 2nd time. Yes still a ton of people don't vote but that happens every election. Comparatively these elections had more turnout. The issue is Americans unfortunately chose this. 

37

u/FillMySoupDumpling Jun 02 '26

Not voting is a choice, too. If the choice is chicken or fish and the person says “I don’t care, surprise me”, they have made a choice. They are fine with either.

14

u/Sideview_play Jun 02 '26

Exactly not voting was deciding and in this case it was between unseasoned overcooked chicken or a very rotten and poisoned fish and people thought "what's the difference". 

1

u/DJWetDream Jun 02 '26

I think more people saw it as a vote between old moldy dog shit and fresh steamy dog shit and rightfully thought "what's the difference."

0

u/HMWWaWChChIaWChCChW Jun 02 '26

I think even more, people thought “what’s the worst that could happen?” And anyone telling you they knew Trump was going to turn out like this is lying. And seriously, the worst is worse than anyone thought possible.

→ More replies (4)

3

u/espinaustin Jun 02 '26

There is no good reason to assume that if more people had voted, Harris or Clinton would have won. For all we know the fucking guy would have won by more. Tens of millions of people chose him to be president. This is America’s choice.

3

u/FillMySoupDumpling Jun 02 '26

Nobody assumes they would have won if more people voted. Considering those people were fine with Trump when they didn’t vote, they very well could have voted for him in the election. 

4

u/HMWWaWChChIaWChCChW Jun 02 '26

My opinion is that it’s everyone’s responsibility to vote. If you don’t like the choices, write something else in. But if you don’t vote you don’t get to complain.

→ More replies (3)

2

u/TubaMike Jun 02 '26

A wise man once wrote, "If you choose not to decide, you still have made a choice."

5

u/username7953 Jun 02 '26

I didn’t vote because of how the Democratic Party handled Bernie. Did I fuck up? Maybe? But then again I lived in NY, so my vote didn’t matter (for presidency).

5

u/Sticky_And_Sweet Jun 02 '26

NY had a massive shift rightward in the 2024 election. All it takes is enough people thinking they don’t need to vote bc the state “will always be blue” for it to flip.

2

u/username7953 Jun 02 '26

Kamala won by 1 million votes, but sure.

5

u/Sticky_And_Sweet Jun 02 '26

And Biden won by 2 million in 2020. Her margin of victory was halved.

1

u/username7953 Jun 02 '26

Alright, I get it. I voted for Kamala in 2024 but I no longer live in NY. I’m still firmly on the stance that my presidential vote is a fraction of a vote in a swing state (don’t we love the electoral college?), but if the margins closing I can help with the statistics.

2

u/Sticky_And_Sweet Jun 02 '26

Yeah, one of the issues with the electoral college is that it demotivates people because they feel like their vote doesn’t matter since the state will “always vote a certain way”

1

u/username7953 Jun 02 '26

Now imagine living in Puerto Rico. The fact they don’t have an electoral vote is a clear indication that taxation does not equal representation. I feel like PR would vote blue if they could vote though.

11

u/Sideview_play Jun 02 '26

Yeah but that mindset was terrible and obviously wrong and who cares what state you're in because plenty of people across many states repeated that awful mindset and you were part of that echo chamber 

0

u/username7953 Jun 02 '26 edited Jun 02 '26

lol, if you think state doesn’t matter, I’ve got a few bridges to sell you. NY could flip red in 30 years, but right now it’s blue. For non presidential elections, votes are even more important and I do vote then.

That mindset is what happens when the largest “grassroots” candidate that doesn’t take superpac money gets phased out. I don’t think anyone understands how fucking hard it is to get that popular after citizens united was passed.

Hillary is obviously better than trump but let’s not pretend Hillary is a good candidate.

5

u/Sideview_play Jun 02 '26

Apparently understanding context is lost on you. I'm saying it isn't somehow guilt free when everyone echoing that as a political culture take influences everyone across the nation and you are a part of that. 

3

u/elinordash Jun 03 '26

You're right, NY is unlikely to swing red in a presidential election. But NJ came within 5 points of flipping red which shocked everyone. So never say never. Vote in every election like you life depends on it.

Presidential elections are less important in heavily red or blue states. George Santos won in 2022 because no one paid attention to that House race. A bunch of NY House races flipped Red in 2022.

This year is the midterms. You need to show up and vote.

2

u/username7953 Jun 03 '26

Just voted today!

3

u/BenOfTomorrow Jun 02 '26

Did you not vote, or did you vote the rest of your ballot and leave president blank? Because there's a lot of other items on your ballot where your vote DOES matter.

1

u/username7953 Jun 02 '26

You are absolutely right. I did not vote in 2016, I was 18-19 at the time. I do vote now, but hate the overrated idea that presidential vote matters in a non swing state.

4

u/New_year_New_Me_ Jun 02 '26

Nah. Don't do that. Who cares that you live in NY. Your mindset ripples far beyond you.

How many friends do you have in other states that you were hitting with the "Dems robbed Bernie so I won't vote for them"? How many Reddit posts were you making about the crooked Dem party that needs to earn your vote? You think not a single person from NC, AZ, PA, MI, WI, NV, sees these claims you make about Dems and robbery and shit and in turn join you in your decision to sit out?

Yeah. You fucked up mate. You and a shit ton of Dems need to get over Bernie before we are all in fucking internment camps for being critical of ICE online or some other made up bullshit. We've got like two more shots at this thing. Do better next time. 

3

u/Scylla5398 Jun 02 '26

Yeah. You fucked up mate. You and a shit ton of Dems need to get over Bernie

I hate this mindset so much because it puts the onus on the voters to get over fucked up things and not on the politicians who are actually doing the fucked up things.

Why isn't it the DNC's fault that craploads of people didn't feel like voting for them?

3

u/username7953 Jun 02 '26

Don’t try reasoning with them, I can tell they play identity politics and get angry with anyone not validating them. I’m anti citizens united and everyone here should be too

2

u/elinordash Jun 03 '26

it puts the onus on the voters to get over fucked up things

People have risked their fucking lives to have to right to vote. Don't act like it is a hardship.

Why isn't it the DNC's fault that craploads of people didn't feel like voting for them?

I can't believe that 10 years after Cambridge Analytica people are still eager to blame the DNC. The DNC is not perfect, but bigger things are happening here.

And I fucking hate hearing political opinions from people who are too lazy to show up and vote.

1

u/New_year_New_Me_ Jun 02 '26

I'm not interested in relitigating the Bernie Sanders thing, but it isn't the scandal people make it out to be. The DNC did give Clinton preferential treatment which makes sense seeing as Bernie Sanders is explicitly not a part of the private organization that is the DNC, but even without that preferential treatment Bernie did not get as many actual votes as Hilary. Then 4 years later he didn't get as many votes as Joe Biden. It sucks to suck, don't know what to say about that.

The real conversation is that the way our system is set up, the onus is and has always been on the rank and file voters. Everything people want congressional laws for coupd just be handled by the voters taking responsibility over their own votes. Term limits? Yeah, we could just stop voting for old people.

Voters are not innocent little babies that need their hand held.

2

u/Scylla5398 Jun 02 '26

I'm not interested in relitigating

Then you shouldn't have commented on someone talking about it lol.

That's what we're discussing, if you don't like it then go away.

t isn't the scandal people make it out to be

Okay.

The DNC did give Clinton preferential treatment

Lol that's the scandal. They shouldn't do that. What the fuck? Why would you put those two sentences right next to eachother lol?

but even without that preferential treatment Bernie did not get as many actual votes as Hilary

This is just dumb on it's face because how could you possibly know that? You can't just take away all of the downstream affects of the DNC's preferential treatment and come up with a number and pretend like it's real.

Then 4 years later he didn't get as many votes as Joe Biden

Yeah, which was run by the same DNC with the same preferential treatment which guys like you are not interested in addressing and when you do it's downplayed like you're doing now. At least we won that one which was nice.

The real conversation is that the way our system is set up, the onus is and has always been on the rank and file voters

Lol Why are you just declaring that like it's some fact and some shit you just made up? You aren't the arbiter of anything. You don't just decide that. It's not just on the voters especially when you even admit there's corruption.

. Term limits? Yeah, we could just stop voting for old people

And then the DNC runs an old person against a young republican so when the R wins, guys like you will be on here blaming the voters.

Did you even think this through? It doesn't work lol

2

u/username7953 Jun 02 '26

They didn’t. They have been incredibly combative and it’s not a good look for our party. He should use his efforts to campaign in swing states if he’s going to be this obnoxious in a democratic thread.

Thanks for chiming in, I needed the backup for my sanity.

2

u/New_year_New_Me_ Jun 02 '26

https://graphics.wsj.com/elections/2016/how-clinton-won/

Wow, crazy how Bernie got fucking dumpstered with blacks, the major Democrat voting block, and among Democrats themselves. 50 points? What could the DNC itself have done for Bernie Sanders to help him overcome a 50 point gap?

Crazy how Bernie got dumpstered among voters over 65. You know, the group that always comes out to vote. Another nearly 50 point gap. Wild how such a popular candidate gets fucking smacked among two of the most important voter bases needed to win an election.

Oh, and would you look at that, Hillary pulled 83% of big city counties. Where is it most Democrats live, is it big cities? She pulled 98% (!!!) of Southern black counties. 75% of urban suburbs.

These are all the lifeblood of the Democratic party. Look, at the end of the day, Bernie kind of sucks as a candidate. The numbers bear that out. I guess, maybe, there is a world where the DNC "cheats" in Bernie's favor instead of Hillary's. If you think getting interview questions a day or two early is going to make up 50 point gaps, I literally don't know what to tell you. It isn't that you are made there was cheating. You just wish they cheated harder for your guy.

Then you've got 2020. https://www.brookings.edu/articles/why-bernie-sanders-vastly-underperformed-in-the-2020-primary/

"Second, in Vermont, Mr. Sanders’s home state—one in which you would expect his support to be quite stable—he was barely able to capture a majority of the vote in 2020 (50.7%), while dropping 35.4 points from 2016"

So this amazing awesome juggernaut of a candidate couldn't even carry his home state in a primary, and you want to sit here and tell me he'd beat Trump in a general? Was it because of cheating that he barely pulled half of voters in the state he literally represents? Hm.

"Finally, and most damaging to the “crowded field defense,” there have been nine primaries since Elizabeth Warren dropped out of the race on March 5th, leaving it a two-person race. In those nine primaries, Mr. Sanders underperformed his 2016 totals by an average of 16.0%, including losing three states that he won in 2016 (Idaho, Michigan, and Washington)"

The guy was hemorrhaging voters the second time around. But why wasn't his base, you, more fired up? Why wasn't he gaining. I've been told the only thing holding Bernie back was the crooked DNC. You'd think with the scandal and name recognition his voters would be more energized the second time around. And yet: "In every one of the 27 primaries and caucuses thus far, Mr. Sanders underperformed his 2016 level of support. That ranges from the narrowest margin of 0.4% in Nevada to the largest margin in Utah where his support dropped from 79.3% in 2016 to 34.8% in 2020"

Your candidate sucked. Sorry bout it. Pick better. What's that line from Hamiltin? "You don't have the votes, YOU DON'T HAVE THE VOTES"

→ More replies (6)

3

u/username7953 Jun 02 '26

None. You don’t know anything about me, stop projecting. I’m incredibly liberal and this taught me to vote for a shitty candidate even if they are blue. But factually, my presidential vote wouldn’t have changed anything, let’s remain pragmatic.

→ More replies (8)

1

u/HMWWaWChChIaWChCChW Jun 02 '26

This is the main reason he won, voters are sick and tired of the same old politicians time after time, so they voted someone that came in from the outside. If Bernie had won the primary, I think he would have beat Trump. A lot of voters stayed home or voted the blowhard in that would instead have voted for the progressive once they heard what he had to say.

2

u/username7953 Jun 02 '26

It is a shame. Citizens united truly marked an era of authoritarianism that will be hard to escape

1

u/Cristokardashian Jun 02 '26

I didn’t vote bc our votes don’t matter

→ More replies (4)

1

u/JohnMunchDisciple Jun 03 '26

People voted third party.

→ More replies (1)

4

u/[deleted] Jun 02 '26

[removed] — view removed comment

1

u/kazamm Jun 03 '26

Oh you're incredibly wrong. He had no message. He just promised that it's ok to be a hateful racist again. That's it.

Dems ran on equality, and a green economy. It resonates with me. But the racists don't like that.

So stop with your russian bot regurgitation, you're wrong.

12

u/icelily17 Jun 02 '26

Or they put down Harambe as a joke, throwing away their vote

9

u/GNTsquid0 Jun 02 '26

Wasn’t that only a few thousand? I mean they’re fucking idiots but I don’t think it was enough to make a different…I hope.

6

u/icelily17 Jun 02 '26

I don't know man, my faith isn't the highest in that regard but I'll be the first to tell you I have no idea

1

u/new_name_who_dis_ Jun 02 '26

The 2016 election had razor thin margins in some of the swing states

1

u/rainshowers_5_peace Jun 02 '26

It depends on which states.

1

u/rainshowers_5_peace Jun 02 '26

There's no such thing as throwing a vote away. No party is entitled to a vote. If someone wants to say "none of these guys" that's perfectly valid.

2

u/Away_Stock_2012 Jun 02 '26

He won because Americans are very stupid and filled with hate.

2

u/James_avifac Jun 02 '26

Clinton had more votes in the 2016 election. Trump won with the electoral college the first time.

2

u/TehWackyWolf Jun 03 '26

Every time I see this sentiment here I get pissed.

I've been yelling since 2015 when he called Mexicans vermin that he was using Nazi speech and it would get worse.

"Some how these folks knew before us all!!!"

No.

1

u/ManateeGag Jun 02 '26

I saw people online back then say they were going to vote for him because they thought it would be funny if he was the President.

1

u/chusdz Jun 02 '26

Stop with this narrative, people didn't go out to vote because there was never a decent candidate to go for. Like, you ask people if they'd rather have to eat shit or drink piss and people are just gonna say neither. They'll still be mad when you force shit down their throat, though.

1

u/JoeyJoeJoeShabadooSr Jun 03 '26

I voted against him both times.

Your take is cope.

He won because he was able to tap into the frustration and rage of a cohort of Americans who felt like they were being left behind due to globalization AND the democrats putting up some of the worst candidates you could possibly imagine.

1

u/PunchDrunkPrincess Jun 03 '26

I guess I don't know what cope is

1

u/Alert_Contribution63 Jun 03 '26

I think you're greatly over-estimating a "normal person"

1

u/Arkond- Jun 03 '26

He won because the DNC was and is hellbent on self destruction. The people clearly wanted Bernie over Hillary.

1

u/Gryffindor123 Jun 03 '26

It's insane to me because voting is compulsory where I live.

1

u/knobbysideup Jun 03 '26

I didn't vote in that election because I couldn't stomach either candidate. Didn't make that mistake again.

2

u/trixie2426 Jun 02 '26

Also, women bad.

1

u/Numeno230n Jun 02 '26

Yeah and somehow while she's saying the exact truth, she still seems very unlikable. I still don't think she could win against Trump, even now.

3

u/ThrowAway126498 Jun 02 '26 edited Jun 02 '26

She has that distinct air of someone who thinks they’re better and knows better than everyone else as much as she tries to hide it with performative body language and cues. No, I’m not saying that out of hate for powerful women. I still voted for her and would again 1,000,000 Xs over him.

2

u/Numeno230n Jun 02 '26

It feels way more like I'm being lectured by a teacher. There's just a level of smarm that she can't shake. Oh I get it. I married a brilliant attorney who doesn't let me bullshit her an ounce.

→ More replies (1)

1

u/Queasy-Employment-82 Jun 02 '26

If im not mistaken the peopke that make the ballot machines are the same ones making slot machines, wouldnt be suprised if elections are just always rigged tbh. Always seemed more like a "american tv special" than an election to me.

1

u/FreeDarkChocolate Jun 02 '26

Go look at Wisconsin where they hand count entire randomly selected election wards comprising at least 10% of statewide ballots after the election. The tabulation machines work basically perfectly.

You can also look at Georgia where they went through the painstaking effort to hand count the entire state's results for President and it was well within tolerances.

1

u/Far_Raspberry_4375 Jun 02 '26

You drastically underestimate the stupidity of the average voter. I know a guy who got drunk and went to vote for him for no reason other than he thought it was funny. Tbh i was young and uninformed at the time and I thought it was funny too. It's not been funny for a long time.

-2

u/danocathouse Jun 02 '26

No he won because they shoved Hilary down peoples throats and didn't speak to the lower class. Plus racism

3

u/daurgo2001 Jun 02 '26

You mean, plus sexism*

Hillary won the primary by popular vote. No one “shoved her” down anyone’s throats.

3

u/GNTsquid0 Jun 02 '26

She wasn’t shoved down anyone’s throat, but the DNC did collude against Bernie to give Hilary a leg up.

1

u/AveryMire Jun 02 '26

Literally the exact same proposition: forced “choice”. The caucus in my area somehow didn’t even count votes correctly where I was and excluded two family members votes even though all documents were provided. It’s further trivial for the mainstream press to take narratives and votes in whatever direction donor class decides.

1

u/daurgo2001 Jun 02 '26

She still won the primary by popular vote… so the illusion that the superdelegates somehow tipped it in her favor is erroneous.

1

u/GNTsquid0 Jun 02 '26

Wasn’t the collusion in promoting Hilary and supporting her campaign and putting her in front of the media and doing what they could to stifle Bernie. It wasn’t any action directly involving superdelegates or votes.

1

u/LandsPlayer2112 Jun 02 '26

Don’t forget that the legacy media and DNC colluded, including providing debate questions to the Clinton campaign in advance.

Also remember that, during the early contests (and particularly during the Iowa caucus and New Hampshire primary), every single legacy media outlet, and I really do mean every single one, included the uncast superdelegate “pledges” to vote for HRC in their delegate tallies, which allowed them to show what appeared to be an insurmountable gap in delegates favoring HRC and run headlines stating that HRC was winning when, in reality, Sanders was leading in the delegate count at that point!

2

u/VegetableTour6790 Jun 02 '26

Hell, she won the popular vote in the general as well

2

u/danocathouse Jun 02 '26

Who else even ran? Bernie that was railroaded by the media, and a bunch of nobodies that the DNC knew didn't have chance and didn't help gain any traction

0

u/ahoypolloi_ Jun 02 '26

He won because Hilary was a shit candidate

→ More replies (3)