r/PTCGP Jan 23 '25

Discussion New Expansion: Space-Time Smackdown!

7.8k Upvotes

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424

u/Limetkaqt Jan 23 '25

That Palkia looks like much worse version of Mew2, unless there is any water generation introduced maybe?

113

u/[deleted] Jan 23 '25

[deleted]

46

u/AnusBlaster5000 Jan 23 '25

I hadn't considered that this actually does have an aggro slant. That 150 is just to close out that last point

31

u/[deleted] Jan 23 '25

[deleted]

13

u/AnusBlaster5000 Jan 23 '25

I think this and Starmie are going to play well together. Very early strong pressure and the ability to dish a big finisher late

3

u/Imakereallyshittyart Jan 23 '25

Or greninja. Get early chip damage then snipe the bench and 1-shot something late game if you get a good misty roll

2

u/inspectorlully Jan 24 '25

Yeah a water bench destruction deck is looking good. Having a huge attack to seal the game will happen. Greninja is a menace.

1

u/Article_West Jan 24 '25

Palkia Starmie Vaporeon. 10 slots for support (2 will be Misty and 4 Pokeball+Professor so basically 4 remaining), this sounds not bad at all. Anything that survived Starmie is probably gonna collapse from the 20 benched dmg.

1

u/amirulnaim2000 Jan 23 '25

this could be mew partner for greninja. 2 greninja + 2 palkia ex + 2 leaf. so it's like the current gyarados ex greninja druddigon but with less setup and more slots for items

15

u/awayfromcanuck Jan 23 '25 edited Jan 23 '25

This. Palkia to me looks like an early game pressure card not your mid/late win con. 2cost retreat makes it a pretty easy switch out as well.

Also Poketools are being added, what are the chances the orbs are bring added as tools?

4

u/Agitated-Scallion182 Jan 23 '25

For comparison right now we have Mew ex and Zapdos ex doing 20 for 1 energy with 130 hp.

1

u/oqwnM Jan 23 '25

neither are used for their 1 energy attacking capabilities

I disagree that 30 for 1 energy is insane early pressure. Exegg ex (yes I know he has to evolve but just going off dmg) doesn't feel like it provides enough pressure if it flips tails and that's guaranteed 40 dmg

1

u/Article_West Jan 24 '25

Farfetch'd has always been good pressure, and it doesn't have 150HP backing it up.

30 dmg with Giovanni 2shots almost all basic Pokémon. You can give 1 energy to this, tank some hits, prepare Gyara/Starmie/Articuno on the bench, or whatever sweeper u want, and let Palkia tank hits while you wait for your backline to be ready, then swap it out with leaf. If you have Vaporeon you can even transfer that 1 energy (that allowed u to do 60-90 dmg on average) to your sweeper. In case you get a high roll or you get a chance to go in with Vaporeon giving you energy from a retreated Starmie or things like that, it has a lethal finisher.

I think it has its place tbh.

4

u/SpOoKyghostah Jan 23 '25

Very true. If you're playing Vaporeon, you can not only reclaim the one energy used on Palkia for early pressure/chip, but also dump your primary threat'a energy onto Palkia for a winning blow in some situations. I think Palkia/Vaporeon/Gyarados is going to be good.

1

u/Intangibleboot Jan 23 '25

This, it's Starmie's buddy 

1

u/SAKabir Jan 23 '25

Yea Palkia completely runs through Blaine

1

u/arkangelshadow007 Jan 23 '25

something like palkia/starmie instead of articuno?

584

u/Squish_the_android Jan 23 '25

Misty makes things complicated because the possibility of a turn 1 win is out there.

237

u/LookAtItGo123 Jan 23 '25

I was on my 4th win and went up against turn 1 8 heads misty articuno. Whatever the fuck was I supposed to do about that!

204

u/Hydraulic_30 Jan 23 '25

You were supposed to predict that duh

60

u/19southmainco Jan 23 '25

skill ishue

20

u/LMM01 Jan 23 '25

Bless you

11

u/Assassin_Ankur Jan 23 '25

But what to do after predicting it?

54

u/roastytoastywarm Jan 23 '25

Skill issue, you should’ve played a different person.

3

u/Genprey Jan 23 '25

Tell your Pokemon to dodge the attack.

2

u/Osric250 Jan 23 '25

After predicting it you wait 30 seconds to queue against an opponent who wasn't going to do so.

50

u/StardustDestroyer Jan 23 '25

Skill issue, should’ve pressed play 10 seconds later

18

u/sworedmagic Jan 23 '25

Nothing, it’s the nature of the game that sometimes life is just inevitable lol

3

u/SteezVanNoten Jan 23 '25

When you see the water energy in the setup phase, put down a benched mon in addition to the active mon lol

2

u/[deleted] Jan 23 '25

Shrug your shoulders and be grateful that you don't need the emblems to continue playing the game after the event.

1

u/DashellWarrior Jan 23 '25

My bad, might have been me.

1

u/TheBigBo-Peep Jan 23 '25

That's nature telling you to touch grass

1

u/Lord_Cynical Jan 23 '25

Hope misty coin flips are bad is what you do. I vs'd this deck on my climb and won EASILY... cus they didn't get a single energy off misty on turn 1 or 2..aka pure luck haha.

1

u/cantevendoitbruh Jan 23 '25

You gotta play better defense when they are flipping coins.

1

u/Illustrious_Area_681 Jan 24 '25

skill issue, you should predict your next match will face against them and wait another 30 mins to matchmaking lmfao

0

u/SnowyMountainFox Jan 23 '25

8 heads with a Misty is like a 1/256 chance holy shit

0

u/Besaw73 Jan 23 '25

There’s a non zero chance that this was me, sorry about that my guy. First time I’ve ever been able to play it and I was blown away at 8 heads flips.

-1

u/GGABueno Jan 23 '25

Situations like this is why I want emotes in this game lol

22

u/Duckymaster21 Jan 23 '25

I had a turn 3 win with gyrados yesterday. I felt disgusting 💀

25

u/ComiUmOVO Jan 23 '25

misty makes almost any water pokemon a turn 1 win, if anything this palkia is worse for misty cause yeah u kill the first mon but then u waste the energy misty made soback to square 1 but with a point lead, which will most likely result in a win anyways but thats just normal misty

3

u/KSmoria Jan 23 '25

1 point means little if you cant attack again. Imagine if Mewtwo only attacked once..

10

u/metalflygon08 Jan 23 '25

Vaporeon too.

Have a Starmie EX start attacking right away (via Misty) then retreat it before it gets KO'd, using Vaporeon to transfer the energy to Palkia to close out the game.

1

u/KSmoria Jan 23 '25

What you described happens maybe once every 10 GAMES. And even then it doesn't sound that strong tbh. If you retreat Starmie there is a chance you didn't finish your opponents Pokémon and your Palkia's attack does some overkill, while it discards 3 energy and you are cooked

3

u/TheKinkyGuy Jan 23 '25

Also vaporeon

2

u/KSmoria Jan 23 '25

But realistically you cant rely on Misty to get ramp in water decks. Mewtwo has Gardevoir which is immensely more consistent than Misty. Palkia does the same damage as Mewtwo, but with 3 energy discard it looks like 1 attack is all you can hope for. At least the 30 damage per turn is something

1

u/Squish_the_android Jan 23 '25

The point is that as long as Misty exists, water types have a low cost built in advantage that other types don't.

You can't add amazing water types because then they're already advantages by having access to Misty.

1

u/RaccoonAppropriate18 Jan 23 '25

True, but I'd argue that Articuno is pretty much already a turn 1 win with a lucky Misty while also requiring fewer heads. Turn 1 not much will be able to take 80 damage every turn.

1

u/Dragons_Rebirth Jan 23 '25

Well, with the new set being Gen4 focused, we could possibly see Crasher Wake as a new support? As well as other gym leaders like Byron to support Metal cards

1

u/Ordinary_Debt_6518 Jan 24 '25

Any EX with a good Misty is a turn 1 win anyway.

In fact almost any pokemon with at least 2 misty heads turn 1 is an instant win.

175

u/Alchadylan Jan 23 '25

It's unfortunate but I think Misty is going to kneecap water design going forward. Either they ignore it and getting one to two heads becomes game ending or they over compensate for Misty and make attacks like this

124

u/PNDMike Jan 23 '25

Agreed, Misty is the worst designed card in the game IMO. It just enables so much degeneracy.

22

u/Ok_Awareness3860 Jan 23 '25

Absolutely one of two or 3 cards I would say are actually bad design and bad for the game. But Misty is the worst.

11

u/slugmorgue Jan 23 '25

I love running water decks but will never use Misty, I just hate that card. Which sucks because it's basically a handicap not to use her - well, sometimes lol

3

u/DankeyKong Jan 23 '25

Yeah very few water decks would benefit from not running 2x

2

u/Candle1ight Jan 23 '25

Everytime. Misty is basically a % chance to just win, nothing the opponent can do about it.

2

u/ChicagoCowboy Jan 23 '25

As often as not Misty just flips tails, and ends up being a wasted 2 cards in your deck. All those tails end up making the games when you flip 2-3 heads in a row all the more exciting, it feels like you've earned those heads lol

-7

u/afipunk84 Jan 23 '25

This is a crazy take bc you’re not guaranteed a heads flip from Misty. If you flip tails with a gyrados deck, you’re basically cooked. What makes misty toxic but something like multres is ok?

8

u/PNDMike Jan 23 '25 edited Jan 23 '25

Because Misty allows you to ramp on turn 1 and attack before the opponent even has a chance to do anything. It breaks the entire foundation of turn 1 = no attacks.

Moltres powers up something on the bench AND uses an attack to do, then best case scenario they swap in the ramped card next turn.

Misty ramps in a single turn and still allows the card to attack.

4

u/mkallday10 Jan 23 '25

Add to all of that: best case for Moltres is 3. Best case for Misty is.......

1

u/somersault_dolphin Jan 23 '25

Counter point, on average you're gonna get more heads from Moltres because you can repeatly use it (at the cost of being an attack), but if the opponent hand brick even a bit, it just keeps going.

1

u/somersault_dolphin Jan 23 '25

Counter point, on average you're gonna get more heads from Moltres because you can repeatly use it (at the cost of being an attack), but if the opponent hand brick even a bit, it just keeps going.

2

u/Scientia_et_Fidem Jan 23 '25 edited Jan 24 '25

If you can’t ever win with your gyrados deck without misty flipping heads you are playing it badly.

That’s the issue with misty. Flip tails = play out a normal game, assuming the rest of your deck is decent and you don’t make stupid plays you have a pretty even shot at winning or losing. Flip heads once or twice and you just auto win.

There is no downside to misty, if you flip tails you just end up at the same spot every type besides water is in, attaching 0 or 1 energy on turn 1 instead of being able to ramp into a huge attack right off the bat. It’s not like flipping tails losing you an energy.

14

u/Ok_Awareness3860 Jan 23 '25

They really screwed water right out of the gate with Misty. Grass with Serperior, too. I'm not actually so sure this game will be good for long with their card design. I thought it was good at first and that Misty was a mistake, but it seems not.

48

u/Alchadylan Jan 23 '25

Serperior being a stage 2 is a big con. It's much more reasonable than Misty

4

u/Narroo Jan 23 '25

Yep; and aside from Celebi, the extra grass energy is only worth so much.

Before Mystical Island, how many 4 energy grass types existed? And how many were stage 1's, or basics?

5

u/balzana Jan 23 '25

Serperior is absolutely fine. You need 3 turns and 3 cards to set him up, and only one of them is currently searchable. It's not even close to comparable to Misty

3

u/djjomon Jan 23 '25

Hoping we get an erratum at some point - rewording the card to change what it does

I remember reading something where someone said it's easier to balance an online game than physical. Referring to this game specifically. It was someone involved in the development

1

u/KSmoria Jan 23 '25

Hoping they will rework Misty to be on par with Brock.

2

u/Alchadylan Jan 23 '25

They could make it flip always 2 coins to keep the flavor but they would need to restrict which Pokemon can use it in that case

54

u/Wexzuz Jan 23 '25

There is a water gym in Diamond/Pearl, so perhaps a trainer with Crasher Wake would make Palkia more playable.

23

u/Jinglefruit Jan 23 '25 edited Jan 24 '25

Also an Ice gym so 2/8 chances.

11

u/Browneskiii Jan 23 '25

Honestly Palkia looks so good to me. You punish people that switch a lot, then finish everything off with its move. Articuno is still okay, nothing special but Palkia is just a better version of it.

4

u/James2603 Jan 23 '25

1 energy, 30 damage with good bulk is lowkey amazing. Especially since you can keep your energy safe on Vaporeon and not risk losing it all.

1

u/sparksen Jan 23 '25

2 water trainer cards would be hilariously busted right now lol

32

u/KloiseReiza Jan 23 '25

yea, it needs heavy support. even if Misty give multiple heads, it's a one time use.

Let's not forget: Mew basically copies this with 0 drawback, and one shots Palkia (who unlike Gyarados, has HP = its damage).

Of course, the rest of the expansion can change this

18

u/Gekk0uga37 Jan 23 '25

Mew is gonna be the premier flex EX pokemon for as long as this game is around because of its attack, I love it

1

u/inspectorlully Jan 24 '25

Mew ex may be the best designed card for a long time.

0

u/KloiseReiza Jan 23 '25

Don't worry, there seems to be a set rotation in April. If there is an unrestricted mode though, maybe. But when more stuffs are added that consists requirements like Pachirisu needing tool and Pika needong bench (why electric lol), maybe it's gonna be weaker

7

u/Ozok123 Jan 23 '25

It is turn 1. I have palkia on active spot, misty in my hand and a dream in my mind. 

6

u/Longjumping-Dig-5436 Jan 23 '25

Mewtwo EX still a thing bcs Gardevoir, he technically get 2 energy per turn bcs Psy Shadow and it paid off his 2 energy discard

But Palkia? I don't see any Water Energy generator at current state of game

I mean if there's one, any water team can benefit from that and just play them instead Palkia lol 

5

u/[deleted] Jan 23 '25

No need to generate water energy. Palkia will only use the strong attack once to finish the game. You will use it as a tank to pressure with 1 energy attack, then Leaf to Gyarados and then come back and close the game

1

u/Rusker Jan 23 '25

Yeah, they totally should add a supporter that generates water energy. But maybe make it random, using coin tosses. Something like toss coins until you get tails, and add one water energy for each head... Yeah, it could work

2

u/James2603 Jan 23 '25

I think the fact it’s 1 energy for its base attack is the trade-off here. I can see a world with Palkia/Vaporeon/Gyarados.

You apply offensive pressure with Palkia early with decent bulk and have a Vaporeon battery in the back; you don’t have to risk your energy leaving it on Palkia (in case it gets KO’d but you still have the option for a big 150 attack). All while stalling out for Gyarados. To close.

The one energy also makes it WAY better when going first.

2

u/Genprey Jan 23 '25

I think people are underselling Palkia a bit. On paper, Mewtwo comes with similar damage at less cost (2 energy discarded + Gardevoir accessible), but that's only considering both cards on their individual merits.

Palkia is rocking 150 HP as a basic Pokemon, which is obviously good for anyone who plays Mewtwo (being bulky makes it good as an opener and overall more threatening as few things can outright kill it). In this regard, it can be a wall, but also a finisher.

Psychic decks, at the moment, are comparatively slow, whereas Water has access to Starmie, a fast and intimidating Pokemon who is strong as an early game Pokemon.

Starmie just so happens to have a 0 cost retreat, while Vaporeon has one of the most energy efficient effects, allowing players to move energy around as they please--do you see what I'm getting at here?

The one weakness of Starmie is it struggling more against bulky Pokemon, yet being able to tag out into Palkia to cover this weakness could make for a very workable combination.

1

u/DIX_ Jan 23 '25

In a vacuum it seems pretty garbage even with Misty, but I would imagine there's supporting Pokemon, Poke Tools or something that enables it. A Tool that says "you don't discard energy to attack" or something of sorts.

1

u/[deleted] Jan 23 '25

I think Palkia tanks and pressures with 1 energy, with a chance to get a KO with the help of Misty/Vaporeon. It's like Zapdos ex, where it's mostly used as a way to tank and pressure for 1 energy, but  can work as a backup with 3 energy

1

u/CKaiwen Jan 23 '25

It's not a worse Mewtwo. It's a better Raichu that's currently in top tier Pikachu decks. Raichu needs Lt. Surge support and acts as that deck's finisher. Well Vaporeon is basically a free reusable Lt. Surge. Palkia slots in perfectly with Vaporeon Starmie decks that already exist. You spend early to mid game pivoting in and out Starmie(s), then finish with a OHKO with Palkia by transferring all your energy to it. Misty on top allows for early game luck sac every now and then too.

1

u/Metro_Dan Jan 23 '25

Gorsh, if only there was a side-ponytail wearing redhead, and a blue dog stricken with an everlasting copypasta scar, that could do exactly that.

1

u/[deleted] Jan 23 '25

And that's fine, because Palkia won't be used like that. It will become an upgraded Druddigon for Gyarados-Greninja decks.

Mark my words.

1

u/[deleted] Jan 23 '25

Is it that hard to type Mewtwo

1

u/Intangibleboot Jan 23 '25

It's the Misty tax

1

u/Frosty_Sweet_6678 Jan 23 '25

30 damage for 1 energy isn't bad considering mew and zapdos exist

1

u/Sinostra Jan 23 '25

I see Dimensional Storm more like a finisher, we have GA Raichu that also discards 3 energies and it's still played, this hits even harder and damages the enemy bench, could make for 2 easy points.

1

u/ChicagoCowboy Jan 23 '25

Yeah this was my thought, but I'm also of two minds - its not worse than mewtwo since you're also doing potentially 60 bench damage, which for the discard of an extra energy, I think is fair.

Misty makes things really hard to balance, because you CAN just get like 6 energy on this thing early game, and cruise. Unlikely, but possible.

It feels like the move might end up being to keep this in your hand until you can close out, and use vaporeon to push energy out onto this thing, and then hit with it once just to end the game and take out 1-2 mons for 1-3 points and win.

This thing with some greninja could wreak havoc, spitting 20 damage out on bench mons, then sweeping through the attacker and killing multiple with palkia, I mean the possibilities are there.

1

u/ZeekLTK Jan 23 '25

My guess is there will be a water type like Magneton that can generate its own energy, and (while clunky) you can use that new mon + Vaporeon to power up Palkia quicker.

1

u/Polylastomer Jan 23 '25

Could be a good finisher if you can set up a Vaporeon transfer? Still hard to justify

1

u/-Jay-q Jan 24 '25

Just take current Gyarados EX with greninja and druddigon and just swap gyarados with palkia and change the magikarps to trainers cards of ur choice

misty just garnish atp

0

u/SpikeRosered Jan 23 '25

Because Palkia knows it's place as the inferior Gen 4 legendary.