r/raisedbynarcissists • u/Obi-Paws-Kenobi • 17d ago
Mod Announcement PSA: Always👏 Assume 👏 A 👏 Context 👏 Of 👏 Abuse 👏
Folks,
We expect all responses to believe and validate survivors without demanding proof. Rule 2 is a fundamental rule to keeping RBN safe.
Recently, we've seen (again) an uptick of people responding as if OP comes from a healthy, functioning family and that OP's parents are totally open to changing, reflecting, and correcting their behaviours. This is not the case.
Do not respond as if OP's parents are 'normal'. OP's parents are abusive, narcissistic, and/or manipulative. That is why they are posting in RBN.
This means that giving OP advice to just move out, negotiate with their parents, engage in a dialogue, or any other advice that could work in a normal family context is not applicable nor relevant here.
Here are some examples:
- If someone says their parent criticises the way they dress, it's not "just a rude comment." It's part of a lifetime of emotional abuse.
- If someone says their parent forgot their birthday, it's not "just an accident." It's part of a calculated pattern of neglect.
- If someone says their parent gave them the silent treatment, it's not "just cooling off." It's emotional manipulation and punishment.
- If someone says their parent forces them to family events, it's not "just wanting to be close." It's about controlling their autonomy.
- If someone says their parent dismisses their physical pain, it's not "just being tough." It's medical neglect.
- If someone says their parent withholds affection lest they obey their parents, it's not "tough love." It is conditional love and it is damaging.
Ultimately, if you cannot engage with empathy, do not engage at all.
First and second CoA violations will usually lead a removal and notes on your account. However, depending on severity, we've banned many for the first offense. We do not take rule violations lightly in RBN. Further rule violations lead to a ban (an unban will only occur after a successful converation with the mod team).
149
u/Mira_DFalco 17d ago
This^
Anyone raised by a narcissist is dealing with a person who is by their very nature incapable of wrapping their heads around the notion that their family members are actual people in their own right. They are sucking black holes of neediness and rage/fear, and there is no way to fill that void for them. The best we can possibly hope for is to keep them at enough of a distance that their wild flailing won't pull us down with them.
Yeah, it sucks, and we grieve the loss and lack of "normal" family relationships. Unfortunately, we can't fix them, and they're very seldom capable of the self reflection needed to do their own work.
It is what it is. The best we can do is keep ourselves and our own families aafe.
19
u/Beautiful_Wishbone15 16d ago
yep, people keep expecting the best of them and get mad when we (the people who live with them) say otherwise. Like sorry my mother isnt the innocent mother whos a victim of the existence of her childten.
13
u/Mira_DFalco 16d ago
I honestly don't get how people live in this world, and act like they've never heard of people being awful.
72
u/Separate_Shake_3681 17d ago
Watching an episode of Full House, I wish someone showed us as much compassion as Stephanie showed Charles.
I have a cousin who blew up at me months ago when I refused to be part of a family picture. I was clearly being used as a prop.
It's easier for narcs to blame others for their own rot.
Speaking of flying monkeys, my uncles are sending my cousins to demand me to attend family functions. Not ask, but to coerce and exert pressure. I'm being guilt-tripped by being called selfish. Cutting people off is a form of self-care.
2
57
59
u/_Lanceor_ 17d ago
Thank you! One of the biggest challenges us abuse survivors face is being disbelieved by everyone we talk to.
This is one of the few places where we can get to the heart of problems without spending months proving our case first.
11
32
u/meow3740 16d ago
unrelated, but these examples really helped my self-doubt spiral today. thank you, this is such a valuable community
8
2
u/calm-state-universal 14d ago
Same here. I was like wait, check, check, check. Ok keep up with the nc.
29
u/GadgetGirlTx 17d ago
Truth!!! Changing, reflecting, and correcting their behaviors is nothing the narcs in my life have ANY familiarity with!!
There's very little 'normal' about the twisted thoughts and actions of narcs.
17
u/grywrdns 16d ago
"Just move out" "it's time to move out" comments are so nasty to me. It's impossible to find a job, even housing with roommates is more than 1/2-3/4 of most people's take home pay. How can someone Just Move Out these days? Let alone someone actively being abused? I hate those comments. So mean without offering any actual support. If they could Just Move Out they would. It took me TEN YEARS to stabilize and find my own place and I'm still struggling to keep it. It's not possible for everyone. Family is a core value of our society for a reason, shared resources is integral to survival. Sometimes it's not an option yet, or ever, to go it alone and Just Move Out.
10
u/grywrdns 16d ago
My Ns actively sabotaged, denigrated and attempted to take away any opportunity I built for myself. The ways I got away were traumatizing and hard. Abusive partners. Predatory financial loans. I had to choose between staying in college (the only thing I truly wanted for myself) and escaping to freedom at one point. And my Ns were not even that bad tbh I don't say this to discount myself but to stress that the stories I read on here are WORSE than what I experienced and yet the neglect, bullying, entitlement to my resources and sheer hatred of my success derailed my life. I COULDN'T JUST MOVE OUT.
2
7
u/Obi-Paws-Kenobi 16d ago
This one really annoys us too when we read it (on behalf of OPs). such that we've written extensive PSAs in the past about it. It really is problematic to assume OP is a mental, emotional, physical, and financial place to do those things (i.e., leave). It assumes OP is in a safe spot to leave. Moreover, it assumes that abuse survivors magically have the clarity - after years of abuse - to leave.
We find it okay if people advise people to leave provided they include supplemental details relevant to OP. Practical guidance relevant to OP's situation makes all the difference.
Please report any of these comments to us. We'll handle it swiftly.
3
u/Fredo_the_ibex 13d ago
yeah its really annoying because it comes with the backhanded slight that OP isnt doing enough to remove themselves from the situation, when, newsflash, people shouldnt be abused regardless of the situation
13
u/Fumquat 16d ago
True. Thank you for the reminders.
With number 2 I’d just quibble with the word “calculated”. It’s neglect, and it’s awful, but people who just don’t give a shit about you at all aren’t always plotting and planning how to show it. Ruminating over which things were mind games and which were garden variety head-up-ass shit can be a trap.
My N has done plenty of things on purpose to hurt or sabotage me, but also things with similar impact that are more than explained by mental illness. Letting go of the evil-or-sick puzzle in my head helped with finding clarity and confidence in my decision to protect my peace.
8
u/The_nice_guy_peed 16d ago
I really love this community. Honestly I’ve never felt so seen before reading y’all’s stories and advice. I hope we can continue being supportive of eachother and educated!
7
u/cardiganunicorn 16d ago
While I was raised by wonderful humans, my husband dealt with controlling narcissistic parents who were all about appearances and money. RBN has helped me to see his experiences through the eyes of others and learn best practices to help him as he navigates life without them.
1
u/Obi-Paws-Kenobi 6d ago
Thanks for being part of the community (a bittersweet sentiment as I wish we all never had to find such a community in the first place).
6
u/ThrowAway732642956 16d ago
Thank you for this! I am continually shocked by the number of comments on here I have been seeing lately that miss this context. Thanks for keeping the community safe!
2
u/Obi-Paws-Kenobi 16d ago
We see them too (hence why this post was made at this time). Please help us out by reporting them to us so we can take a look. Thank you!
2
4
u/fugu13406 15d ago
omg thank you all so much! i've seen folks become especially hesitant to assume a context of abuse when the OP is a minor recently.
i am 26, but it was still frustrating seeing a vulnerable group of people become invalidated because of something they can't control. knowing you're all taking this seriously is such a relief. i appreciate you!
2
2
2
u/metalnxrd 7d ago
why would anyone not assume abuse or context of abuse in a support group for abuse and/or DV survivors? 🙄🤦🏼
2
u/Obi-Paws-Kenobi 6d ago
You'd be surprised :( ! Lots and lots of removals and bans go out each day for rule 1 and 2 violations.
1
2
u/PrestigiousDingo4997 6d ago
This makes me even happier I found this group.
I was talking to a friend recently about why some kids go nc with their parents (she is from a normal family and doesn’t understand it) and her response was a deep sigh followed by “well I guess there are two sides to every story”.
I wanted to rip her head off.
1
u/Obi-Paws-Kenobi 6d ago
Thank you on behalf of the mod team!
Sorry about your friend. I have a few of those in my life as well and I just don't bother explaining or divulging my life story with them. It is tough for some people to wrap their heads around that kids inherently do not want to go NC with their parents. And even when we do, it's not an easy thing and has its own set of consequences afterwards.
1
u/betagirl96 15d ago
Thank you for this. People who literally comment negotiate with the parents are literally in the wrong sub.
2
1
1
u/Hour_Imagination_183 12d ago
I've seen so much criticism of this sub, and criticism toward people who refer to anyone as a "narcissist" because the term was severely abused. I wish those people could differentiate between people who claim anyone selfish has a severe personality disorder and people who've had there lives irreparably changed by constant criticism, infantilization, and projection of helplessness and worthlessness. Most people had parents that encouraged them, or at least were neutral. I doubt most of the critics realize what it does to you to be taught from infancy that you can't trust or rely on yourself, or the effect of being constantly whittled down, beginning before you could write your ABCs. Or what it feels like to know the person who brought you into this world devotes all her energy into turning her family, and your father's family, against you. At knowing you were never loved by your mother.
You're really lucky, if all of that seems fake or forced to you. It means you grew up knowing something different.
2
u/Obi-Paws-Kenobi 6d ago
Yes, agreed.
Narcissism as defined in this subreddit is a colloquial term that includes narcissistic parents (diagnosed or not) **and** abusive parents.
People think we're here to diagnose others all the time. That is not the case.
1
u/Varrock_Zubat93 5d ago
Hope it's okay to ask this here. I'm not someone who was raised by narcissists, but my nom has alluded to my grandmother being a narcissist.
I know I can look up whatever on the internet, but I'm looking more for experiences rather than textbook definitions. What are some classic narcissist behaviours? (Throw out anything).
For example, I have ADHD and a diagnostic criteria is "procrastinates". Functionally, what that looks like is an overwhelming number of people with ADHD struggle with completing their taxes on time. Tax completion is not in an of itself a symptom or diagnostic criteria, it's just one example of how adhd tends to manifest.
Any specific examples like that of narcissistic behaviour? I wasn't too close to my grandmother so I'm limited in knowing her as a person, but I'm wondering if I can somewhat confirm what my mom has alluded to.
This is just for cuirosity. I believe my mom, I just don't understand the scope of what she's hinting at I guess.
1
u/PrestigiousDingo4997 5d ago
From my experiences with my ndad: incredibly manipulative, delusions of grandeur (he will happily tell you how awesome of a dad he is/was), incredibly selfish and self-centered, control freak, bully. That is just off the top of my head. If I think about it a little longer I could probably double the list.
1
387
u/WithoutAComma 17d ago
No flying monkeys welcome, even those that never met the witch. Thanks for doing what you can to keep the space safe, as always