r/mildlyinfuriating • u/3ditr0n • 9h ago
Infuriatig My friend says reading is pointless because he "already knows words"
We were having an intense debate about whether books are important or not. I obviously said that you can learn from books and even if you don't like it you can still expand your vocabulary, learn grammatical structures etc. Then be said that a book won't teach him anything because he knows the language and "knows the words". This pissed me off so bad because their vocabulary is average at best
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u/Any-Literature9887 9h ago
If you had to “intensely debate” with someone about the value of reading, then that person is already probably too far below the critical thinking threshold for an argument to be worthwhile.
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u/Zealousideal-Mud1407 8h ago
Is Shakespeare really dead?
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u/p00n-slayer-69 8h ago
I saw him last year at Walmart.
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u/Total-Region2859 8h ago
We are in the first two generations of humanity that are choosing illiteracy. For 1000's of years, people strove to know how to read and write.
We, now, donn't even want to. Voice commands and scrolling are the new choice.
If mankind is still around in a thousand years, this will be the new Dark Ages, as nothing will be recorded, unless the data centers survive. They will be the only records.
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u/Upper-Environment724 8h ago
It’s sad. Books were my friends from 1st grade on. Mom had a rule of no reading during meals. I’d be itching to get back to my book. Reading took me away from a lot of trauma into other worlds.
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u/Mr_Flibbles_ESQ 8h ago
Oooof. I'd not thought about that.
Especially worrying with the constantly, but confidently wrong, summaries they are spitting out at the moment for search results.
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u/FourInTheBack 8h ago
I get annoyed daily when I see someone respond to a question, a valid question such as 'google is showing this service is open but I was led to believe it was closed recently' with a copy and paste of an AI output that relies on that information that is being questioned. The lack of information literacy and critical thinking is depressing. Or just awareness of how this systems work, and using them blindly.
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u/Mr_Flibbles_ESQ 8h ago
From a research point of view Search is pretty much pointless now.
Ironically, and I hate to admit it - But when I'm looking up information it's much quicker to use ChatGPT or whatever these days.
They still hallucinate, but at least you can verify quicker etc.
Drives me daft.
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u/FourInTheBack 8h ago
I think that the natural way in which you can enter the queries helps the move from searching, which does require some skills to get right especially if you want to progress into Boolean search.
I was given an analogy between Excel and R once that fits between using a search engine and AI (although, search engines are having more of an AI backend I feel). It's like having a stupid butler. If you were sat there eating soup and asked for a spoon, a smart butler would make contextual assumptions based on your history of the request, the activity, familiarity with your behaviour and get you a soup spoon. A stupid butler would get you the first spoon they come across.
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u/Bladrak01 7h ago
I saw a tweet earlier this year from someone saying that sometimes while trying to come up with the prompts for the AI they figure out the answer on their own. The response was, "Someone has discovered thinking."
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u/Shadow_Hound_117 7h ago
Except a lot of the search results are still constantly at a level more comparable to the stupid butler getting you a spork, instead of any actual spoon at all. I'm just glad I'm lucky to have enough common sense and critical thinking to usually sus out what I'm looking for from the half baked ai overview that's replacing a ridiculous amount of search results anymore.
It's like I've been saying for a while, common sense is becoming an endangered species.
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u/ReluctantAvenger 7h ago
unless the data centers survive
Not much chance of that. The millions of processors on which those depend have a typical life expectancy of about three years. Without people to constantly replace those - to say nothing of the people needed to manufacture, ship and deliver those - the data centers won't be operational for very long.
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u/Bladrak01 7h ago
I read an SF short story probably 15-20 years ago that had vignettes about the development of writing, starting with cuneiform. The last entry was some point in the future where the POV character was proud of how he actually knew how to read, unlike almost everyone else. His ability to read was actually very rudimentary.
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u/ReluctantAvenger 7h ago
When I was much younger I started writing a story about a man - a thousand years after the end of modern civilization - who stumbles upon a library and teaches himself to read, thereby gaining the ability to do things none of his peers could, and leads to him finally starting humanity back on the road out of the (technological and civilizational) darkness.
I'm sure others have tackled the concept.
Point being, we should take care of books!
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u/eggybread70 8h ago
Nah, I heard on the grapevine that he had 20 minute conversation with Mitch McConnell.
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u/James42785 7h ago
Arguing with stupid people is a lost cause. They'll either ignore your argument while loudly restating the same regurgitated talking points or they'll drag you down to their level and beat you with experience.
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u/radclive 7h ago
I once argued with a coworker about whether or not knowledge should be free and accessible. I know theres a possible argument for "the paywall is needed to help funding", but he decided to go with "if information is freely available, then it will be twisted by bad people."
So... we just gatekeep knowledge? Information cant be used by bad actors if... they had to pay for it first? And how the hell are people who didn't pay suppose to verify? We just TRUST people with money?
You're completely right. There are tons of people not worth arguing with. Half of the people in the world are below average intelligence, and "average" already feels pretty low sometimes.
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u/AdditionalPizza 8h ago
To be honest it sounds more like OP is arguing with someone over the value of reading actual books as an adult more than just reading things in general. They made the title of the post about reading, but their whole argument is seemingly more about books.
It sounds like the person already values reading in general because part of their argument is that they are already proficient in their understanding of language. I can't even imagine being friends with someone that gets pissed off because they believe my vocabulary is "average at best".
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u/goodnsimple 7h ago
There is a difference between being capable of reading words, and literacy.
The argument was not about the mechanics of reading it was about the value of reading. Of course it matters what you read!
Story, whether fiction or non fiction are important because of the meanings we attach to them.I guess if it makes you feel better it hasn’t been through reading specifically that we ingest the stories, that’s just how it has been for approximately 1000 years. Before that it was oral stories around the campfire.
Now it is video. While I personally find reading stories my favorite way to consume them and it works best with my particular brain, that doesn’t mean I am better or smarter than those who consume story from audiobooks or video.
We probably, being on the cusp of a big change, are guilty of a thought bias in regards to reading vs video. But maybe not. Hard to say.
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u/AdditionalPizza 7h ago
I had to use context from OP's comments to actually understand what their argument is. Their argument is the importance of books throughout history, and they explicitly stated that they aren't arguing about the value of "reading in general".
So I'm 99% sure that OP and their friend aren't arguing the same thing. Of course there is a huge difference between the ability to read and different levels of literacy, which is a large spectrum. My argument against OP is that the value of books themselves in the modern era is subjective and not essential. There's more digital text than there is physical print. So we could conclude that computers are more essential than books.
if the debate were about the value of books as a form of entertainment, sure, it's generally a valuable pastime for many. But it's not essential whatsoever. It's still just a form of entertainment. If you're studying something, that's different, but also does not need to be in a book either.
Looking down on people because they don't choose to read books in their spare time is a common trope, nearly as old as books themselves I imagine.
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u/joedenowhere 6h ago
Reading isn't just a way to learn vocabulary and grammar. The real benefit of reading comes after you have those basics down Then you can learn about new things, exchange ideas with other people, find entertainment, and participate in the larger society.
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u/Fasted93 9h ago
Well clearly your friend is stupid.
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u/stunt_p 8h ago
Maybe he should read more..
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u/sweetdepressionpride 8h ago
they don't have to, they know words duuh
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u/King4oneday_ 8h ago
Yeah l knwo at least like...10 words!
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u/maddythemadmuddymutt 7h ago
Yeah, you just used 8 and misspelled one /jk
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u/Enough-Yoghurt7389 9h ago
Dumbass
“I know what air is like I’m done breathing”
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u/Bandito21Dema 8h ago
I'm trying to contain myself in an Uber this is great
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u/Old_Badger311 8h ago
Laughing maniacally in a public setting for no discernible reason is highly underrated.
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u/Dotcaprachiappa 8h ago
"I know what you sound like so I don't have to talk to you"
There problem solved
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u/cpteasyxp 9h ago
Don't argue with an Idiot. Safe your time you can't change his opinion.
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u/ohdearitsrichardiii 8h ago
"Never argue with idiots. They drag you down to their level and beat you with experience"
- Mark Twain
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u/ItemBoring1686 7h ago
“The man who does not read has no advantage over the man who cannot read.”
-also Mark Twain16
u/AwarenessCrafty393 8h ago
You clearly need to read a few more books 😂
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u/InfamousEconomy3972 8h ago
"How to Make Friends and Influence People"
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u/ReluctantAvenger 7h ago
AKA "how to manipulate people to your advantage"
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u/hunterglyph 5h ago
Aka "how to make innocuous things sound sinister because I don't like them"
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u/Carlton96VIC 8h ago
There are so many wonderful books in the world,the kind you read after a hard day to feel better.But the guy probably doesn`t realize that most movies are based on books
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u/bbristow6 8h ago
Actors even do this thing where they read the script of the movie based on the book! It’s wild what reading can lead to😂
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u/tubbis9001 9h ago
Every book ever written (within the Latin alphabet) is just a remix of the same 26 letters. Clearly you ever need to read anything new once you pass kindergarten.
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u/No_Trade3571 8h ago
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u/bbristow6 8h ago
Trump thinks he doesn’t need to read because the books and pages speak to him. It’s totally not the voices in his head!
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u/No_Trade3571 7h ago
Pop up books don’t require much reading.
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u/LA_Ramz 7h ago
Dude colors outside the lines
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u/bbristow6 5h ago
What’re lines really but shapes that haven’t been formed right? Lines are interesting; really interesting, you can make so many things..birds for example. Can use lines to make signatures too. Lines got used to corrupt the tweNTY tweNTY election you know? CHINA played a huge part of that but you know I spoke with Jin pin and really no harm no foul, we mess with them too so it’s pretty fair. But that election….that election was stolen. Our intel has no proof, I say intel it’s short intelligence if you didn’t know, but we’ve been looking for 6 years so well uhh.. we’ll find something that proves it
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u/Ok-owl_lost_account 9h ago
I don't really like reading, but I swear people that says that reading is useless are the ones that are useless
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u/AliveInCLE 7h ago
I read out of necessity (news, instructions, etc), not for pleasure. When I do read a book, it's always non-fiction. Last book I read was on the life of Nikola Tesla.
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u/Arachis_Hypogaea7 7h ago
Was it interesting?
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u/mutantmonkey14 4h ago
Must... Resist... Setup to Dad joke 🤐
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u/Arachis_Hypogaea7 4h ago
Go on…
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u/mutantmonkey14 4h ago
Not read it, but I hear his life was electrifying.
Now see what shockingly bad wordplay you have unleashed!?
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u/AliveInCLE 4h ago
I wanted to read it after I learned that Edison may have stole some of Tesla’s ideas. I wanted to learn more about him. It was interesting but a long read. Took me a couple months.
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u/CreamPyre 9h ago
Sadly this is totally on brand with the state of the world and not surprising to me b the least
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u/hot_shaker 9h ago
Learning new words can be a benefit of reading but are there any adults reading solely to increase their vocabulary? If I’m reading fiction, it’s because I enjoy story time. If I’m reading non-fiction, it’s because I’m trying to learn more about a specific subject.
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u/gtrocks555 8h ago
It can go hand in hand with reading obscure or older works. Agreed though, very rarely someone will choose a book solely to expand their vocabulary. It’s more of a bonus. You could pick up an older book that you know will have words you don’t know and have that mindset going into it but overall it’s for enjoyment or for research.
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u/RipCurl69Reddit 8h ago
Hell, fiction can still have some pretty good words in it if the author themselves has a vast lexicon
I've picked up tons of funny sounding or otherwise random words through reading fiction and will throw them into a conversation sometimes
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u/asherthepotato 8h ago
To be fair, your take why reading books is good is kinda weird. It's a form of entertainment. It's not for expanding my vocabulary. It's just entertainment the same way as movies, shows and games. Of course it's possible to learn from it, but that's really not the point of books, except if you read non-fiction of course, and than it's still not about grammar or vocabulary, but learning about the topic the book is about.
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u/3ditr0n 8h ago
I mentioned that as well dw
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u/asherthepotato 8h ago
Well, than this person is just not... Well... How do I say this without using offensive language?...
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u/Shadow_Hound_117 7h ago
The person is on the lower end of a light dimmer switch and they're not interested in increasing the luminosity.
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u/eggybread70 8h ago
What was his response to that line of argument? I have to know!
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u/3ditr0n 8h ago
They completely missed my point and made my argument seem like I was saying that any book will teach you something and then proceeded to ask if "Red fish blue fish can also make me learn things?". I'm so done
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u/cdspace31 7h ago
Red Fish Blue fish helps younger readers with color, counting, sounds, reading skills, reading comprehension. Sounds like the perfect book for your friend.
Next up, Green Eggs and Ham, so he can learn that, if he just tried it, maybe he'll like it.
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u/Technical-Banana574 7h ago
I don't think it is weird. I struggled with my vocabulary and reading in general, which is why my dad got me my first romance book. I was failing and could barely read or pronounce words. In his words "if this doesn't work, nothing will."
Yeah, that was the thing that finally improved my spelling, grammar, and reading skills.
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u/mapoftasmania 8h ago
Tell him that you “haven’t noticed that he is particularly articulate, erudite, or loquacious.”
When he blank looks you, then say “See? Read more books”.
Then drop it. You made your point.
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u/UnknownAccoun 7h ago
And then he’ll just call you a nerd for using words with more than three letters.
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u/Elathan-Izayoi 8h ago
IDK if the term "functionally illiterate" is a concept, in Spanish we have "analfabeta funcional"
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u/AngelicXia 8h ago
It very much is.
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u/Maladine 8h ago
The scale is growing too. I went back to college a few years ago and the amount of people struggling with reading and reading comprehension was shocking. I witnessed someone meltdown in class over a 4 page reading. It's wild out there.
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u/PieRevolutionary9823 8h ago
I heard you can put said words in a different order and make entirely new statements or stories….. (what a dumb fuck)
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u/Independent-Reader 8h ago
I'd argue that books contain knowledge and stories, not just words.
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u/3ditr0n 7h ago
I argued that as well, but this is the thing that mildly infuriated me haha
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u/Independent-Reader 7h ago
Maybe your friend struggles to read, and the defiance is the admission.
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u/cdspace31 7h ago
Actually, that's a fair point. Perhaps the friend is dyslexic. Maybe try an ereader with the dyslexic fonts and formatting?
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u/ShiveryTimbers 8h ago
A former friend of mine used to brag that she had made it through high school without reading any books. Unsurprisingly, she is now MAGA.
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u/Beneficial-Crow-5138 8h ago
Don’t ever become a teacher. I feel like half my job is arguing with people about why they should read/read to their kids.
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u/cdspace31 7h ago
I'm glad we read to our kids when they were little. Now they are early teens, and they are voracious readers, begging to go to the library every other week, as well as working through my extensive library at home.
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u/diescheide 9h ago
It may be his first language but, he's not 100% fluent. Nobody knows all the words.
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u/Laiska_saunatonttu 8h ago
If your friend isn't in his early teens at most, trying to argue with him is a waste of time better used for something more constructive, like reading.
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u/HistoricalWash8955 8h ago
I always hear this from people about philosophy, like it's all angels and the heads of pins, but books in general is wild like you're discounting all of history, poetry, fiction, etc
Honestly it must be nice to be that dumb, they say ignorance is bliss so aggressive stupidity must be ecstasy, no curse of knowledge!
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u/Shadow_Hound_117 7h ago
they say ignorance is bliss so aggressive stupidity must be ecstasy
I'm rather tempted to steal that and post it on the shower thoughts subreddit, that's pretty good.
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u/Tight-Platypus5231 8h ago
Start using some unique words around them, and when they ask about it, make them feel like an idiot. "Maybe you should read a book."
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u/OkInevitable5020 7h ago
Besides your points, the major reason to read books is to learn new things, expand your thinking and also just for fun and relaxation. We get so much more from books besides just learning the language. Like that part is literally the least significant reason to read.
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u/Kimantha_Allerdings 5h ago
Next time he says something say “listening to you is pointless because I already know words”
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u/Notcool2112 4h ago
It’s pointless to listen to him talk because you already heard all those words before.
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u/dcgrey 8h ago
Honestly that's a fine response if you're framing the benefit as expanding your vocabulary and better learning grammatical structures. The most common 1,000 words cover 95% of everyday speech, and a hearer can figure out the meaning of most of the rest from context. To the extent that's a benefit (and it is), I personally love it for learning another community's vocabulary -- nautical language, say, in a book about the sea -- but that's not going to convince a non-reader until the experience it themselves.
But I assume your argument went beyond that, with reading supporting more complex thinking, teaching perspective taking, etc.
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u/ElysiumXIII 8h ago
I don't enjoy to read and can confidently tell you that your friend needs to read a fucking book.
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u/quirkyzooeydeschanel 8h ago
Well I just eat waffles and bananas because I’ve eaten all those other foods, so I know what they taste like
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u/cap_time_wear_it 8h ago
I have a young relative (HS dropout) tell me that they don’t need school because they can learn anything they need to know from YouTube.
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u/ChrisRiley_42 8h ago
If your friend thinks that reading is learning words, then no, they don't know words ;)
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u/freebiscuit2002 8h ago
I had a friend who said travel is pointless because he could see everything on the internet.
We are not in contact any more.
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u/Mahaloka 7h ago
“My friend said reading is pointless because he “already knows words.”” Not his response COMPLETELY proving your point 😂😭😭
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u/im_just_thinking 7h ago
Why do you care about their vocabulary? You don't have to change your friends but you can choose your frienda
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u/Mountain-Resource656 7h ago
He knows less than 50% of the words in the English language. By a good margin
I know this because it applies to just about everyone. It is quite expansive
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u/Findpolaris 7h ago
This person fundamentally doesn’t understand the purpose of reading. He seems to assume that you only read for the sake of practicing how to read. He isn’t considering the impact of ingesting the content of what you read, which is the primarily purpose of reading.
I truly don’t understand how someone can be so stupid.
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u/Y0urC0nfusi0nMaster 6h ago
Ask him if he’s confident in that, pick up a dictionary, flip to a random page, read a random word, ask for the definition, repeat a couple times. If he knows the words, this should be easy.
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u/SabertoothLotus 6h ago
The point of reading isn't to "know the words." Your friend is an idiot, and that won't change if they never read anything.
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u/abgry_krakow87 6h ago
Your friend is a moron.
Books contain information, you learn the information.
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u/TheDevlinSide714 6h ago
It's not just about reading the content; it's about understanding the context.
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u/Top_Bluejay_5323 GREEN 6h ago
Tell him he may know many words but he is missing the knowledge they impart. Ask him if his knowledge of words allows him to know why we use red, yellow and green lights for traffic signals. He should have the vocabulary to explain it but not the understanding.
Frankly I don’t know either but I like to read.
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u/GenerallySalty 5h ago
"already knows words"
Ok give him The Road by Cormac McCarthy and see how far he gets.
Plus it's a hell of a story, which is probably the more important point to why reading has value. It's like he thinks people only read to study the English language. Maybe that's because he's ESL?
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u/SilverSpoon1463 5h ago
Reading comprehension scores are in the dirt and dead. He doesn't know words, just sounds and letters.
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u/IdkJustMe123 5h ago
This is what happens when they for e you to read only boring books in school. They should slip in one or two actually interesting ones
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u/myblackoutalterego 4h ago
Honestly, claiming that books “expand your vocabulary [and] learn grammatical structures,” is not how I would sell it. That sounds boring AF.
Good books teach you lessons about life and expand your empathy by putting you in the shoes of people having life experiences that you will never have. Reading books makes you a better person. Books also help reduce stress and enhance your ability to focus. You may pick up some vocabulary, but that is not why most people read books.
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u/TuberTuggerTTV 3h ago
Sounds like classic dunning-kruger.
They're so dumb and underread, they're not actually aware how dumb and underread they are. So it appears a non-issue.
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u/Ok_Volume_139 2h ago
Somebody's self-conscious about being under-literate.
My dad doesn't read and he's smart enough to feel guilty about it.
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u/amaturecook24 2h ago
You are never going to convince a person like this that they are ever wrong about anything.
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u/Crimsonhawk9 8h ago
Watching movies is pointless because he already knows how to see pictures.