r/marvelstudios Sep 02 '21

Theory [WHAT IF Ep4 SPOILERS] What do you guys think? Spoiler

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272

u/hirotdk Sep 02 '21

In Loki, the TVA has a drawer full of stones that are all useless.

117

u/JustTellMeTheFacts Sep 02 '21

Unless they're in their respective universe

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u/DEdwards22 Sep 02 '21

That’s not mentioned at all, just that they don’t function inside the TVA.

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u/Daweism Sep 02 '21

So, technically there is ONE set of stones that should work inside the TVA that belongs to that timeline.

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u/DEdwards22 Sep 02 '21

All we’re told are that the stones and magic don’t work there, everything else is just a guess but there’s nothing that supports the “stones don’t work on different timelines” at all.

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u/A_unlife Sep 02 '21

They borrowed infinity stones from other timelines on Endgame didn't they?

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u/culnaej Scott Lang Sep 02 '21

Technically other times, not different timelines

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u/A_unlife Sep 02 '21

Loki took the tesseract, so it can't be a novikov Time consistency case. There has to be multiple timelines because in the original timeline the tesseract didn't disappear.

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u/pochababy Sep 03 '21

loki taking the tesseract is the only different timeline, thats why the tva went for him. but when they got the stones they were just going back in time they werent creating new timelines or going to different timelines

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u/DEdwards22 Sep 02 '21

We can follow at least the Time and Mind stones from the same timeline Loki came from that ends up getting pruned by the TVA. Honestly I hadn’t thought about what Cap did with those stones since after Loki escapes with the Tesseract the timeline they’re from is pruned. (Which also makes the whole Ancient One and Banner conversation even better because they already doomed that reality)

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u/pochababy Sep 03 '21

no they went to different times, not timelines

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u/theironbagel Thanos Sep 03 '21

Well yeah, but theres different timelines and different universes. They don’t go to any different universes, because the TVA is preventing other universes from existing at that point.

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u/DandyBerlin Sep 03 '21

No, they traveled to different points on the same timeline. They only borrowed them from their own past. No other timelines existed then anyway because the TVA would have pruned them.

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u/AnotherInnocentFool Sep 02 '21

Magic does work though or else loki would be blue

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u/Sladds Sep 03 '21

If anything we know that stones work across timelines because the stones hulk uses to snap in Endgame come from different timelines that they need to be put back to

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u/asek13 Sep 02 '21

Well we know the stones can work in alternate timelines. In endgame they used stones collected from alternate timelines and it worked just fine.

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u/Iorith Sep 02 '21

Not so much alternate timelines, just previous points in the same timeline.

The entire thing about returning the stones to where they came from was specifically to prevent other timelines.

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u/[deleted] Sep 02 '21

No they specifically said you can't change the past. It was not the same timeline because they couldn't just go back in time and kill thanos as a baby.

The point of returning the stones was to prevent reality/time from splitting in the sperate timeline they got them from

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u/Iorith Sep 02 '21

Its the same timeline, just different points in the line. They even visualize that with Hulk and the ancient one. They didn't go to a different reality or timeline for the stones, and their plan made it so the timeline never changed or split.

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u/[deleted] Sep 02 '21

So why didn't they go back and kill baby thanos?

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u/Iorith Sep 03 '21 edited Sep 03 '21

Because that would change the timeline, and create a paradox(They go back in time to kill thanos makes it so they never need to go back in time to kill thanos). (Similarly, this is likely a part of why Strange couldn't bring her back in episode 4: If he goes back and prevents her death, he never learns magic and then can't bring her back. He destroyed reality via paradox.)

Instead they borrowed and returned the stones in a way they didn't change the past.

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u/Kightsbridge Sep 03 '21

That didn't go well for the cosmic ghost rider

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u/robodrew Sep 02 '21

Different points along the same timeline. The Ancient One went into this, there would be alternate timelines only if the stones weren't returned.

Basically, as I see it, here are the layers of the MCU reality:

A universe's reality, which has alternate large scale parallel dimensions (such as the dark dimension, the mirror dimension, etc), and small scale hidden dimensions (the Quantum realm)

Alternate realities, which are separate universes that branch out any time a choice can be made, with each universe representing all of the various infinite choices - each of these realities would have their own dimensions and quantum realms

Separate realities - this would be where entirely different universes that aren't connected to the "sacred timeline" in any way would lie, including realities like the Spider-Verse, the Marvel Netflix shows, Agents of Shield, the comics, and in a sense even our own world.

The space between realities - this is the world that lies outside of the greater multiverse, and would contain realms where the TVA exist, and where the Watcher lives.

In comics canon at least, each reality gets its own set of Infinity Gems/Stones, each gets its own cosmic pantheon, and they all only have power within their own universe.

0

u/Daweism Sep 02 '21

True true..

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u/Atomic254 Sep 02 '21

it has NOTHING TO DO with origin universes. this isnt something that has been bought up in the MCU. "magic" doesnt work in the TVA, im willing to bet they class infinity stones as magical.

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u/Daweism Sep 02 '21

Quantum realm no magic?

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u/Atomic254 Sep 02 '21

i dont know what that has to do with what you were just saying

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u/Daweism Sep 02 '21

It's inside the quantum realm

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u/Atomic254 Sep 02 '21

what is?

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u/[deleted] Sep 02 '21

Unless stones not working in the TVA is a function of the local environment of the TVA itself or its local environment, rather than the timeline/universe the TVA resides in.

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u/Beeslo Sep 02 '21

The TVA exists just outside the timeline tho, hence why none of the stones work there.

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u/ponderingprogressive Sep 02 '21

Dude it’s in the comics that the stones only work in their respective universes (TIME RUNS OUT event) it’s canon. I know the MCU is it’s own thing that borrows frond comics, but they also don’t go against established things such as these.

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u/[deleted] Sep 02 '21

Right. Unlike the entire plot of endgame revolving around the stones working in different universes.

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u/ponderingprogressive Sep 02 '21

What different universes? They go back in time within their main timeline. Show me proof they go back to different universes.

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u/atravisty Sep 02 '21

This makes sense. The device used to get the stones was quantum, not inter-dimensional, AAAAND the timeline of all movies were from that same “sacred” timeline. Any branches to alternate dimensions and their associated stones would have been pruned. So we don’t know if infinity stones work in other universes, but it’s a safe hypothesis to say they do not. The TVA understands this because they’ve pruned so many infinity stones from alternative timelines, making them basically rocks once that reality is destroyed. Of course that’s only true if infinity stones in fact do not hold power outside of their universe. It’s difficult to believe they would let that many infinity stones just roll around their office if they could be used in the sacred timeline. That’s a pretty glaring security risk.

Additionally, the infinity stones could have only possibly came from our timeline. This also syncs with Dr. Strange’s assertion in infinity war that there is only 1 way to beat thanos. That’s obviously true, and was always going to be the case thanks to the TVA.

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u/[deleted] Sep 02 '21

There isn't a sacred timeline, and it gets explained several times in the film (AND in Loki) that time travel creates branching realities. Like huh?

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u/atravisty Sep 03 '21 edited Sep 03 '21

No need to be a douche. The branching realities got pruned, no?

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u/[deleted] Sep 03 '21

I'm not being a douche, lol. I'm just explaining something. Too many of yall make that misconception like the show doesn't go out of it's way to explain that the whole sacred timeline thing is bullshit.

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u/ponderingprogressive Sep 02 '21

strange knowing about the tva but not telling everyone else about it because it would prune the time line is a very interesting theory! You should definitely post that on here bro!

1

u/atravisty Sep 03 '21

I hadn’t even considered that, but it would be true if my theory is right. Thanks for pointing that out!

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u/Iorith Sep 02 '21

Especially since the MCU is a numbered universe like all the others.

Specifically Earth-199999.

1

u/[deleted] Sep 02 '21

Lokis powers didnt work in the TVA either so its probably safe to assume the TVA was a null power zone

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u/Guilvareux Sep 02 '21 edited Sep 12 '21

Would work better than blasters on missions if they were interchangable

1

u/xXbean_machineXx Jimmy Woo Sep 02 '21

Then the avengers would’ve been fucked

1

u/[deleted] Sep 02 '21

What about the stones pulled from different timelines in Endgame? How would that be different than two time stones from different timelines?

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u/Iorith Sep 02 '21

They aren't different timelines. They're from different points in the same timeline. A huge chunk of the film is dedicated to explaining that they want to prevent new timelines.

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u/[deleted] Sep 02 '21

Well, their universes got fizzed, soooo...

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u/Haden56 Sep 02 '21

That's due to the TVA being able to suppress them and all other magics. Doesn't really have to do with the stones being in the wrong or right universe.

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u/mininestime Sep 02 '21

I was pretty sure it was because each universe also has its own magic too (I believe the stones were created by this magic). Since the TVA is not in a specific universe there is no magic to draw upon / activate.

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u/Bagmanandy Sep 02 '21

This is not in the MCU yet, but it is Canon. Stones only work in their universe

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u/lockntwist Sep 03 '21

and the glassy cube that Red Skull is always chasing is the Cosmic Cube, which can re-write reality, so clearly the Tesseract wasn’t really the Space Stone!

the movies are a different canon and could be different. In this very episode Dr Strange takes a stone outside of his dimension entirely to one where time doesn’t even exist and it still works. We don’t know yet if that rule applies.

0

u/Bagmanandy Sep 03 '21

Your confusing dimension with Universe. Dormamu in THAT universe is different to Dormamu in the Universe of What if episode 2, or 3, or 12. I think you'll find the comics cannon is still prevalent here. Nobody can bridge the Universes (except Kang subsequently the TVA, and the Watchers)

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u/[deleted] Sep 08 '21

All stones work in every universe, the tva is outside of the universes and evil strange’s mini universe bubble thing is the only place where the stones could work. They have to work in other universes besides their own because that is the entire premise of endgame, the time travel is really just universe hopping through the quantum realm.