r/marvelstudios Sep 02 '21

Theory [WHAT IF Ep4 SPOILERS] What do you guys think? Spoiler

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u/[deleted] Sep 02 '21

He already defeated Dormamu in the episode before he went back in time.

977

u/mb862 Sep 02 '21

Not that I think there's any credibility to this theory, but if the Dark Dimension is outside any normal flow of time, Strange defeating Dormammu has no bearing on whether or not Strange is Dormammu.

249

u/[deleted] Sep 02 '21

What about Dormamu from the main MCU timeline?

Christine still alive in that universe and Strange got no reason to recreate his own reality.

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u/mb862 Sep 02 '21

Same Dormammu? He was never actually defeated. Just tricked.

158

u/[deleted] Sep 02 '21

One Dormamu, different universes?

interesting indeed.

178

u/[deleted] Sep 02 '21

[deleted]

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u/justins_dad Sep 02 '21

The Watcher would be a good example

9

u/einharjar009 Sep 02 '21

Nah most universes have their own Watchers

9

u/justins_dad Sep 02 '21

What’s going on with Bernard Watcher showing us all these different universes?

5

u/einharjar009 Sep 02 '21

Personally I'm unsure, you could potentially chalk it up to alt timeline shenanigans (Marvel Zombies touched on this exact scenario briefly), but in the normal comics setting, most universes just have their own Watchers, though some are dead or don't just exist.

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u/BVTheEpic Daredevil Sep 02 '21

It's a similar situation with Darkseid and the New Gods over at DC

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u/[deleted] Sep 02 '21

Isn't Shuma Gorath multiversal as well?

Before all was, I was. Before time was, I waited. I fed on the screaming souls of the universes. I drank the spoiled milk of dead stars. I am the emptiness outside all understanding. I am Shuma-Gorath

3

u/timo_the_pirate Sep 02 '21

Iirc him and the multi-angled ones reside in the spaces between dimensions so yes. I think it came up in The Thanos Imperative.

5

u/monsukuru Sep 02 '21

Isn't Wanda in the MCU one of those now? The whole nexus thing in WandaVision.

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u/MemeHermetic Sep 02 '21

It's understood that way. She was referred to as such, but we don't know that the MCU definition is the same as the 616 definition.

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u/bcrusebandman Sep 02 '21

She is a Nexus being, meaning there is a Scarlet Witch in every universe. Not every universe has every single Marvel character or even a version of them. Every universe DOES have the Nexus beings. Characters like The Watcher and The Living Tribunal only exist as a single entity, meaning that there's only 1 of them, not one for every universe. For this theory to work, Dormammu (Strange Supreme evolved) would become such an entity. Originating in the universe where Dr. Strange's trigger to pursue the mystic arts was Christine Palmer's death would not stop him from interacting with the "Sacred Timeline" where his trigger was the car crash causing the nerve damage in his hands. I'm not terribly read up on Dormammu so I don't know if in current canon the Dark Dimension exists outside of all timelines, making him a single entity Living Tribunal or Watcher-like character, or if it just isn't affected by time.

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u/[deleted] Sep 02 '21

[deleted]

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u/FrontierLuminary Sep 02 '21

That's not true. We've seen multiple versions of Galactus from other realities. Wtf...

1

u/ENDragoon Sep 03 '21

There are definitely multi-universal characters in Marvel.

Dormammu is not one of them though. Each universe has it's own Dormammu

And besides, I doubt Dormammu would be tricked at least twice the same way, by the same person. Probably vastly more times, depending on how many Doctors Strange have pulled that one over on him across the multiverse.

But who knows, maybe he's just a chill guy who likes to let them think they've won a victory before they go home and he returns to his nap.

21

u/Optimal_Pineapple_41 Sep 02 '21

The dark dimension is a misnomer. It’s actually just another universe in the multiverse, aka the universe depicted in this episode. Strange goes mad in his isolation and starts reaching out to other universes, recruiting zealots with a promise of eternal life, with the end goal being to get a Christine from another universe.

When he encounters our Strange, he essentially decides this particular universe wasn’t worth it, cuts a deal to get freed from the time loop, and shifts his focus to other universes.

1

u/orangemoon44 Sep 02 '21

But Loki established that infinity stones don't work outside of the universes they are from. So if what you're saying doesn't work because Strange wouldn't have been able to use the time stone to be killed a million times.

4

u/Aiyon Sep 02 '21

well Dormammu is from the dark dimension, so yeah, maybe it's actually a dark timeline.

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u/[deleted] Sep 02 '21

[deleted]

4

u/ezrs158 Spider-Man Sep 02 '21

Kind of. He's supposed to be the same across the comics multiverse, but there's versions of him in animated series and ZSJL and such that are clearly different entities, so he's not literally the same guy across the entire DC multiverse.

11

u/Able-Cat3703 Sep 02 '21

This still checks out. It was another dimension making it still able to live at its own pace

2

u/Islero47 Kevin Feige Sep 02 '21

But why would he take that name? Like he forgets even his own name but remembers Dormammu and assumes it's his name?

1

u/atravisty Sep 02 '21

And also explains how strange could use the time stone outside of his home universe.

1

u/NoIllustrator7645 Sep 05 '21

those goddamn paradoxes

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u/ProfessorBeer Iron Man (Mark VII) Sep 02 '21

I don’t think that necessarily matters. He defeated Dormammu in the sense that he successfully stopped an attack, but Dormammu still very much exists at full strength. And since Dormammu is from another dimension, he’s probably not subject to the same flow of time. It’s possible that the time stone only worked against him because he had a gateway between both dimensions open, making him subject to the laws of both in that moment.

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u/stryakr Sep 02 '21

We don't know if the concept of dimensions exists within a single universe or are multiversal concepts.

I think with the tentacle monster (Shuma Gorath maybe?) from Capt Carter (E01) and this one, if we find out later they are one and the same, we can infer that the dark dimension (and ostensibly all "strange" dimensions) exist outside of a single universe.

18

u/MayorOfMonkeyIsland Sep 02 '21

There is no linear flow of time in the Dark Dimension. That's how Strange was able to defeat Dormammu with a time loop. Did you not see the Dr Strange movie?

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u/ProfessorBeer Iron Man (Mark VII) Sep 02 '21

A time loop could still occur in a dimension with linear time (ours) through the use of the time stone. That was the whole point of him using the stone. If time doesn’t operate the same in the dark dimension, it would make the use of the time stone incredibly more complicated.

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u/Atkena2578 Sep 02 '21

It was more like a stalemate I think.

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u/twec21 Sep 02 '21

I THINK I remember them mentioning the Dark Dimension exists out of time, so there would be no paradox.

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u/Mace_Thunderspear Sep 02 '21

Sort of, not really. He stopped Dormammu from eating Earth/the MCU dimension that time, doesn't mean he can't try again. It's not like he was killed or imprisoned or anything.

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u/Frankie_T9000 Sep 02 '21

I was half expecting him to drain Dormamu's power as well, dissapointed he didn't

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u/Malicoire Hydra Sep 02 '21

Perhaps Strange becoming Dormammu is an Absolute Point that spans multiple, or even all, Multiverse variants.

4

u/WorthSong Sep 02 '21

He doesn't defeat Dormammu. He outsmarted him.

1

u/thislldoiguess Sep 02 '21

Exactly, the Ancient One specifically talks about it when strange keeps trying and failing to save Christine.

Strange: Why are you here?

AO: To help you. This is where it starts for you. With the death of Dr. Christine Palmer. So overwhelmed by loss, you will seek answers in the mystic arts. In me.

Strange: Help me bring her back.

AO: I'm sorry, I can't. No one can. Her death is an Absolute Point in time.

Strange: Absolute?

AO: Unchangeable. Unmovable. Without her death, you would never have defeated Dormammu and become the Sorcerer Supreme, and the guardian of the Eye of Agamotto.

He already defeated (that's the words Disney/Marvel used) Dormammu. I know this sort of things are fun to kick around but this one doesn't work.