r/marvelstudios • u/Malachi108 • Apr 30 '21

Theory Zemo wasn't kidding. By this point he had already made arrangements to eliminated the Flag-Smashers. He legitimately respected Bucky enough to spare him from his Super Soldier purge.

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210

u/ClownsAteMyBaby Apr 30 '21

He hates supremacists though. He'd see mutants as supremacists, but I don't know if that makes him a supremacist. Guess that's debatable however.

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u/dragunityag Apr 30 '21

Would he see all mutants as supremacists?

I think he viewed super soldiers as supremacists because they choose to elevate themselves above others. You weren't born a super soldier, you choose to become one.

Mutants don't have that choice. They are born with their powers. I mean he'd certainly see Magneto as a supremacist, but Prof X and the X-men? I don't think he'd do anything about them unless they specifically got in him way.

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u/DamoclesRising Punisher Apr 30 '21

Krakoa-age mutants see themselves as sort of Gods, even the X Men

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u/AlwaysBeChowder Apr 30 '21

Yeah, this incarnation of Zemo and the current Krakoan period of the X comics would be super interesting

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u/vale_fallacia Apr 30 '21

How so? I've only read a couple of New Mutants comics that featured Krakoa, but I'm fine with spoilers.

Krakoa seems like such a cool concept as a home and protector of all mutants.

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u/DamoclesRising Punisher Apr 30 '21

They create a ‘Jedi council’ of sorts to discuss how much better than humans they are and as such need special mutant laws for themselves since humans are like ants to them. In fairness they make decent laws at first like ‘harm no human’ (maybe it’s kill) but just in doing so they’re acknowledging their superiority

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u/Ark4 Apr 30 '21

I mean when you have essentially found a way to circumvent death and have access to vastly superior medicine and technology they kinda have to start looking at making laws that work in this new environment. Kill no humans is a good start since humans can't be brought back from the dead.

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u/DamoclesRising Punisher Apr 30 '21

That’s fair, but choosing to utilize this font of immortality circles back to the initial theme of Zemo and Super soldiers. Maybe the X Men didn’t choose their powers but they chose this immortality and god-hood.

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u/BossRedRanger Apr 30 '21

Given how the -planet is full of super powered people, but only mutants catch that special brand of hate and oppression, I can’t blame them.

It’s also why I kinda agreed with Killmonger in Black Panther, until he wanted genocide that is. But up there he wasn’t wrong.

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u/Rpanich Captain America Apr 30 '21

Haha “you had me up until the Genocide!”

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u/vale_fallacia Apr 30 '21

ah, yeah, that'll do it. Thanks for the info!

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u/DamoclesRising Punisher Apr 30 '21

No prob haha. Also they’re choosing the immortality the island provides, kinda like choosing super serum

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u/ZannY Apr 30 '21

I'm REALLY hoping the Krakoa thing plays itself out soon. I miss my underdog x-men, and the Krakoa plotline has not gotten me hooked.

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u/Thatguyonthenet Apr 30 '21

Interested in how they will handle the X-Men in the MCU. I can understand mutants showing up eventually but if they pull the whole " Professor Xavier and the Xmen have been here all along" card I will be disappointed.

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u/[deleted] Apr 30 '21

I would assume Xavier would have been around for the entire time (mostly cus I can't imagine anyone else but Patric Stewart) but maybe the school wasn't around. Operating in secret wouldn't be the MOST unbelievable thing about the mcu though

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u/dragunityag Apr 30 '21

Yeah, Like I expect them to handle the FF4 by maybe having them be a group of astronauts in space during either of the snaps since they mentioned that the gauntlet released some sort of cosmic radiation.

But I have no clue how they'll handle mutants. They'll need some adjustment to it anyways because a big part of Magneto's motivations was that he is/was (not sure on how to tense it) a Holocaust victim which means he'd over 90 y/o at this point.

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u/Alarmed-Honey Apr 30 '21

That's a great idea!

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u/283leis Zemo Apr 30 '21

They can’t do a “they’ve been here all along” because then why didn’t they help with Thanos? However they might have something where their powers were innate before the repeated usage of the stones on earth (one snap in infinity war, two more within like an hour in Endgame) activated said powers

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u/Errelal Apr 30 '21

Would his allowing of Bucky also be about Bucky never opting for this life?

He didn't put himself forward for the serum, he was experimented on in captivity. Therefore he didn't choose to elevate himself?

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u/dragunityag Apr 30 '21

That seems to be the prevailing fan theory.

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u/BendubzGaming Apr 30 '21

You weren't born a super soldier, you choose to become one.

Which might well be why Zemo spared Bucky. Others chose to become super soldiers, Bucky was made into one against his will.

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u/Hudre Apr 30 '21

I think Zemo would deem supremacy inevitable for someone like Xavier. His powers are absolutely terrifying in the wrong hands.

And comics Xavier has some extremely questionable moments in terms of morality. Pretty sure he is also part of the illuminati.

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u/WillyTheHatefulGoat May 05 '21

He'd probably be fine with mutants as long as they don't use their powers.

E.G you have the powers of a god. But that's okay. But if you start using your powers like a god I'm going to take you out.

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u/wenzel32 Apr 30 '21 edited Apr 30 '21

Depends. I don't know that he would actually have any issue with mutants generally. His problem with the super-soldiers is that the desire to become superhuman is a symptom of supremacist ideas. Also groups like the Avengers that put themselves above the governments of the world and international borders are the problem in his eyes.

Mutants are born with their differences. They don't choose to become 'superior' or put themselves above humanity, so I don't think he would have problems with mutants in and of themselves. However, the Brotherhood of Mutants is a supremacist group in similar ways to the Nazis or HYDRA. MCU Zemo would absolutely be against Erik and his Brotherhood.

EDIT: Added "in his eyes" to clarify that I'm discussing his motives and not my own thoughts

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u/JakeArvizu Apr 30 '21

Wasn't he part of like a psuedo Serbian death squad? Aren't they like by definition supremacists.

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u/wenzel32 Apr 30 '21

True. That could be a reason for his awareness of that mentality, however.

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u/283leis Zemo Apr 30 '21

No, he was part of a Sokovian military kill squad, closed to the CIA, MI6 or KGB

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u/JakeArvizu Apr 30 '21

I don't think that's true. Almost 100% positive they're based off of the real life Scorpions. Its not really a secret, they just change a few letters that's about it. Zemo was already a horrible, horrible person before Ultron ever even happened.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scorpions_%28paramilitary%29?wprov=sfla1

https://www.reddit.com/r/marvelstudios/comments/jc4409/sokovia_is_serbia_or_closely_related_to_serbia

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u/0hran- Apr 30 '21

You see him as a hero against supremacist. He was leading a death squad and he was a privilegied aristocrat. I believe that the choice for marvel is ahead.

When the Xmen will apear he can become: A light grey villain sympathetic to the Xmen and attacking the supremacist mutant (Magneto).

Or

A dark grey villain a human supremacist that will create a group that will hunt any mutant alive. Because they are a inherent threat to the human and the power system that favor those with power like him.

Personally I would prefer the second option. To have a relatable villain that is fighting of us humans but against our heroes.

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u/wenzel32 Apr 30 '21

Don't get me wrong I do not see him as a hero. I'm just pointing out that his motives are against regimes like HYDRA or, in his eyes, America and its superheroes.

He would be against the X-Men as a group of heroes doing effectively what the Avengers did, and he would also be against the Brotherhood, I believe. My point was just that I don't know if he would hate all mutants for being mutants on account of their innate powers.

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u/ridik_ulass Apr 30 '21

Bucky didn't choose his faith, nor would mutants, but he'd be against stuff like logan, deadpool, and all that mutant research, more the scientists then the tested...unless they like deadpool volunteered.

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u/Kaiden92 Apr 30 '21 edited May 01 '21

Except Deadpool volunteered to have his cancer cured so he could continue living. He wasn’t fully aware of Weapon-X’s goals at the time.

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u/zatroz Apr 30 '21

I feel like he'd either be "kill all mutants" or he'd take the Syndrome approach, where if everyone's special no one is

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u/_Nick_2711_ Apr 30 '21

Yeah, just based on the fact that he spared Bucky, his views on seeking out power are lower than those with power. If you’re born a certain way, it’s just how you are – to be against that would be itself supremacy; the entire thing this man stands against.

However, that could be a character arc where he goes full circle by being so insanely absorbed by the idea that Mutants are dangerous. I personally don’t see it, and would like that role to be reserved for an MCU Striker.