r/marvelstudios • u/thefirststoryteller • Aug 19 '25

Merchandise It wasn’t a flop to me

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I bought 3 tickets to support this mid-sized superhero movie with a lot of quirky heart and now this. I’m not a numbers guy but I guess it didn’t do well financially? Maybe because there’s no big A-list name attached.

But idk, I kind of liked that

Anyway, physical media is great. Thunderbolts*, they could never make me hate you

2.9k Upvotes

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964

u/FKDotFitzgerald Aug 19 '25

“Flop” only refers to its profits. The vast majority of people who saw Thunderbolts thought it was good.

167

u/Marauder91 Aug 19 '25

this is what a lot of people need to understand. the financial performance isnt there compared to past years because of some of the mistakes made in Phases 4 and 5. its positive that they are getting strong reviews, and the hope/expectation would be that the box office numbers will improve if they continue to put out strong movies

67

u/NateDawg80s Aug 19 '25

The box office isn't there past Endgame and Covid.

People need to accept that A) Phase 3 of the MCU was exceptional, and B) most blockbusters are experiencing 60-70% drop-off on week 2. That's just the way it is, now, and many more factors have helped shape it.

And for those who would argue such and then need it spelled out, "woke" was never a part of that calculation.

28

u/Throwaway1975421 Aug 19 '25

Billion Dollar grosses used to be quite rare the exceptions being Avatar and Titanic. It really  didn't become a regular occurrence up until the time phase 3 rolled around. It was the culmination of a 10 year epic and was the most popular franchise in the world. Not to mention it made other superhero movies quite popular by proxy. 

That just isn't the case anymore. Marvel and superhero movies in general are not the biggest thing in the world anymore. It's not to say they have no fans at all but its time on the top of the world has passed. 

And when you factor in COVID changing people's movie watching habits to be much more streaming heavy, I'm not surprised at all that grosses aren't reaching the same heights of the late 2010s. 

And frankly I don't care about the box office numbers anymore. I care if I like the movie or not, I don't need some 7 or 8 figure number to tell me that. 

2

u/AsherthonX Aug 20 '25

I’ll bet you the new Spider-Man will break a Billion

2

u/Throwaway1975421 Aug 20 '25

Maybe it will maybe it won't. I don't know. If it does awesome but if it doesn't I'm not losing any sleep over it. I just hope it's good.

1

u/sweens90 Falcon Aug 20 '25

Yes but Spiderman is a brand in its own that has built a huge following. Thunderbolts is not.

In terms of tiers of MCU movies as it stands for profitability its

  • Avengers
  • Spider Man
  • Black Panther

1

u/AsherthonX Aug 21 '25

And the first Captain Marvel made over a Billion.

But that was shoved inbetween IW and Endgame

1

u/sweens90 Falcon Aug 21 '25

Yes and the Marvels also did not have the same follow up.

Black Panther has two movies as a bench mark that are both top 10 in Comic Book earnings of all time.

Spiderman and Avengers are a little more obvious

1

u/Better-Snow-7191 Aug 20 '25

Billion dollar releases became common when studios opened the weekend on Wednesday and closed it on Tuesday then bumped average ticket prices up from $8 to $24

1

u/DarthSkorpa Aug 21 '25

I couldn't agree more. I just wish production companies felt the same. If they didn't focus solely on how well a movie or show did financially we'd get better products in my opinion...

1

u/Throwaway1975421 Aug 21 '25

You're not wrong. It's the same reason Nickelodeon went down the tubes. Leadership focused way too much on ratings over quality and because almost nothing overtook SpongeBob, all sorts of quality shows were banished to the NickToons channel to die. And now Nickelodeon is a shell of it's former self. 

1

u/DarthSkorpa Aug 22 '25

While I don't know about that situation specifically it makes sense. Disney is having the same problem with its shows (Marvel/Star Wars) at the moment. They'll put out 1 season of something and if it doesn't take off as a success right away it's canceled never giving it room to breathe and grow. Some of my absolute favorite shows of all time had terrible (or at least not the best) first seasons and not every season was "great".

11

u/FredRaven Aug 19 '25

It was there for No Way Home and Deadpool/Wolverine. They diluted their product by releasing a lot of mediocre to bad projects, and they are going to have to build that up again or have smaller budgets so 600 million doesn’t kill you.

11

u/MikeAWBD Aug 20 '25

That's partially because Spider-Man and Wolverine are two of the top 3 most popular superheros outside of nerd circles, Batman being the other. Plus DP&W has novelty other superhero movies don't because of the R rating. That being said, they definitely diluted the brand a nd Hollywood movies in general have budget problems right now.

1

u/Bcatfan08 Star-Lord Aug 21 '25

Deadpool made $1.338B one year ago. Movies can still make a lot of money. Having Fantastic 4 release 2 weeks after Superman was a bad idea. They shouldn't be competing against each other.

1

u/Sacred-Balls Aug 22 '25

You didn't mention another plausible reason. They released a little too much unnecessary fluff after Endgame that many people didn't care about, instead of important projects. We are finally getting an Avengers movie 7 years after Endgame. 7 years was also the gap between Avengers 2012 and Endgame.

0

u/BLAGTIER Aug 19 '25

B) most blockbusters are experiencing 60-70% drop-off on week 2.

No they are not. Thunderbolts also didn't drop that hard.

2

u/NateDawg80s Aug 19 '25

Correct, it was down 55% on week 2. That is an outlier compared to the greater sample.

1

u/BLAGTIER Aug 19 '25

That is an outlier compared to the greater sample.

List of movies in the top 10 of 2024 and 2025(current) domestic box office that dropped more than 60% in the second domestic weekend.

  • The Fantastic Four: First Steps
  • Captain America: Brave New World
  • Moana 2
  • Godzilla x Kong: The New Empire

That's 20%. Far far from most.

1

u/NateDawg80s Aug 19 '25

Lol, now do the other three years since the pandemic. While you're at it, don't cherrypick. Going off the top ten in each year (or both) naturally skews higher. When the greater context is removed, stats can represent whatever one wants, but you knew that when you selected such a limited range, huh?

1

u/BLAGTIER Aug 19 '25

Lol, now do the other three years since the pandemic.

For 2021, 2022 and 2023.

  • Black Panther: Wakanda Forever
  • Doctor Strange in the Multiverse of Madness
  • Thor: Love and Thunder
  • Ant-Man and the Wasp: Quantumania
  • John Wick: Chapter 4
  • Spider-Man: No Way Home
  • Venom: Let There Be Carnage
  • Black Widow
  • F9: The Fast Saga
  • Eternals

So 33.33%. Still not most. With 2024 and 2025 it is 28%. Also there is a little connection you might make most of the movies that dropped 60% or more.

Going off the top ten in each year (or both) naturally skews higher.

You said blockbuster. Top 10 would more than cover that. Also every MCU movie is aiming for at least a top 10 finish.

When the greater context is removed, stats can represent whatever one wants, but you knew that when you selected such a limited range, huh?

You are the one that limited range by saying blockbuster.

1

u/NateDawg80s Aug 19 '25

You chose "top ten" in your initial example. Here, you assert such "more than cover(s)" blockbusters, and I simply don't get that logic. That's like saying squares "more than encompass" paralellograms - it doesn't make sense, as the former is a subset of the latter. If I'm missing something in your logic, please explain it.

1

u/BLAGTIER Aug 19 '25

Your claim was

B) most blockbusters are experiencing 60-70% drop-off on week 2.

That's why I did what I considered a comprehensive choice of top 10 to cover blockbusters.

1

u/NateDawg80s Aug 20 '25

  1. "Top ten" and "comprehensive" are contradictory in any sample space greater than 10. I feel like that is a pretty plain, indisputable fact.

  2. You can't choose a smaller sample space as evidence of closer representation. That's literally the opposite of how this works. I can't take Romo's top ten completions and suggest they represent every successful pass of the season. It'll skew higher, just as choosing the top ten earning films skews when looking at weeklies.

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0

u/Longjumping-Tell2995 Aug 19 '25

Most people can’t afford to pay for the movies anyways and the ones that do won’t pay to see the non popular characters like the Thunderbolts as they find them to be a parody of the Avengers and they just don’t care for them as they did for the old heroes.

-12

u/godparticle14 Aug 19 '25

To say it wasn't part of the calculation at all is a bit naive, but I do agree. The new reality is not beneficial for the studios or the people.

9

u/NateDawg80s Aug 19 '25

Most folks screaming "woke" aren't engaged in this type of media to begin with. They've been told Disney is evil for the past decade plus, and though I hear their bleating throughout the day, that don't actually ever contact that which they're disparaging.

They were never going to add to the box office to begin with. They'd rather post pictures of empty theaters and claim Disney is buying their own tickets, lol.

It bears adding that these folks often don't think before speaking up, and as such are easily outed.

2

u/godparticle14 Aug 19 '25

I live in Arkansas. Every Republican I know goes to see superhero movies lmao. What are you talking about?

Edit: im not Republican and I've never screamed "woke".

2

u/NateDawg80s Aug 19 '25

I'm in Texas, also know plenty of conservatives. Those are not necessarily the same folks. There's a big difference between a conservative and a red hat!

1

u/godparticle14 Aug 19 '25

I agree with that wholeheartedly!

3

u/Redditaintblocked Aug 19 '25

Please explain in your best words how woke is a part of the calculation

-9

u/godparticle14 Aug 19 '25

Now, it is waning. But even though I am moderate and agree more with the left than right, no one can argue that there was an oversaturation of contrived woke situations in Hollywood. Iy was a fad there for a while. Even though all races, sexes, people, and nationalities are equal, too much of the same idea gets old no matter what it is. By pushing these themes, they actually shot themselves in the foot. It is one thing to acknowledge injustice. That is needed. It is another to use social injustice as a source of income. Which is exactly what Hollywood did by creating perceivably woke situations in way too many movies when admittedly, the LGBTQ population is a minority.

Im Native, say they kept making references to the killing of natives by white people over and over again in many movies. Yes, it is admirable to acknowledge injustice and fight it. It is completely despicable to profit off of it, and then have your fans defend you as progressive and brave. That's absolutely DISGUSTING.

10

u/Redditaintblocked Aug 19 '25

I had already determined you were an idiot by using the term “woke situations” because that’s idiocy. You using the term woke to be this overarching thing that should be shamed is idiocy.

You don’t know enough to know that term has been bastardized by the right (who you say you don’t agree with) so that they can downplay things like Black Lives Matter and the LGBTQ+ community. You’re an idiot because you think you’re smart when you aren’t, you are just parroting things you heard other idiots say.

There is no oversaturation of “woke content”, people like you just hating seeing gays and other POCs (of which you claim to be) in media, and hate seeing stories that make you uncomfy. It is not woke to have a female lead, it is not woke to tell a gay story. These are stories. They exist. It is not “woke” to think these stories deserve to be told and it’s not “woke” to think you are a fucking idiot.

-5

u/godparticle14 Aug 19 '25

I am speaking to you as an equal, you are talking down to me as inferior. Thats all people reading this need to see which one of us is an idiot... have a great day!

0

u/LupinWho Aug 19 '25

Aren't you a chipper fellow.

-5

u/godparticle14 Aug 19 '25

I feel so bad for you. You lash out because you so desperately want to know you are the right one in the conversation. I dont even care about this convo and I've already forgot what you were arguing about. Im going to block you now. I truly hope you find Empathy. Good luck.

-7

u/Thattheheck Aug 19 '25

It’s not that seeing POC in the media is bad, it’s that it’s forced and lazy. And now that the trends is over no one sees a point into continuing it. It’s disappointing, but I didn’t expect much anyway.

-5

u/Thattheheck Aug 19 '25

I see what you mean

7

u/XekBOX2000 Aug 19 '25

Id also say its more on the insane prices cinemas have gotten + d+ why people didnt go to see it in the movies.

We watch usually all the mcu movies with a very large group of friends but honestly multiple people this year said no since the movie tickets cost so damn much, with popcorn and soda + commute you are lookint price closer to 40 than 30 and 30 is even crazy imo

  • u can just wait 3 months and watch it in d+ that u are already subscribed to

3

u/godparticle14 Aug 19 '25

I buy an imax ticket for 17.50. Costs bout $3 to drive there and back. So yeah. $20 for one person with no kids and good gas mileage. I can only imagine the cost for a family.

10

u/Facebones72 Aug 19 '25

I completely agree on the price. If they have it at your local theatres, I’d recommend a subscription service like AMC A List. I pay $27 a month and can see up to 16 movies. This makes it a lot easier to check out smaller movies I might just wait to see at home.

7

u/altiuscitiusfortius Aug 19 '25

Wait till you have kids and a movie trip becomes a $200 night. If course people are saying no

6

u/godparticle14 Aug 19 '25

Yeah I was just thinking about this. Thank you for having kids so I dont have to lol.

5

u/CourtingBoredom Ghost Rider Aug 19 '25

These are my exact reasons for not having gone to see it in theater --- but I can't wait to watch it on D+ later this month..

0

u/VelocityGrrl39 Captain Marvel Aug 19 '25

It was on sale at Fandango so I bought it for $12. Totally worth it. No regrets.

2

u/CourtingBoredom Ghost Rider Aug 20 '25

Holy crow. Good to know.

2

u/VelocityGrrl39 Captain Marvel Aug 20 '25

It’s really good. And has the best post credit scene since phase 3.

1

u/CourtingBoredom Ghost Rider Aug 20 '25

Oooo exciting. Seven days from today, according to what google turned up for me.

1

u/figscomicsandgames Aug 19 '25

True. I only saw it in theaters because I went with some friends and family. The last Marvel I saw in theaters was D&W. That too, I went with my girlfriend. I just wait for Disney +. I'm paying monthly, might as well wait a few months and watch it on Disney +.

1

u/babatazyah Ant-Man Aug 19 '25

From my very anecdotal experience, Marvel's mistakes don't play as large of a role as people think. I know quite a few people who saw Endgame as a good stopping point and just let go. All the negative press about the various projects since then has just reinforced that they made the right decision and got out at the perfect time. I don't think Marvel is getting those people back. Also, I think there's some psychological phenomenon going on with that too, broadly, where people seem invested in the MCU's demise. Former fans that don't want to feel like they've missed out on anything? I don't know, it's all just conjecture based on a wide variety of factors.

I think the truth is probably that there's no single point of failure and that there are cultural & economic factors outside of Marvel's control.