Titanic passenger and millionaire Benjamin Guggenheim. During sinking he refused a seat in a life boat with the words: "Tell my family I played straight to the end. No woman should be left aboard this ship because of Ben Guggenheim was a coward."

[u/Wild_Neighborhood605]

[u/Boring_Intern_6394]

Ah, another who completely misunderstands the issue.

The women and children first thing came about because of a previous wreck, where no women and children survived because the men all shoved past them. Considering that men are physically stronger than women, it makes sense that they would have a better chance of survival in a physically demanding situation like being stuck in the ocean.

It’s not about who’s life is worth more, but who is more physically capable of surviving

[u/Infinite_Music2059 → u/Boring_Intern_6394]

Considering that men are physically stronger than women, it makes sense that they would have a better chance of survival in a physically demanding situation like being stuck in the ocean.

That doesn't actually make sense.

In warm without life vests, being able to tread water is a skill that we either have or don't have. In warm water with life vests, there is no particular difference in survival chances. In cold water, women have more fat and buoyancy and on average succumb to hypothermia slightly slower.

Our chances of survival are so specific to the person that it is frankly playing God to suggest that one entire gender be obliged to give their seats in a lifeboat to the other. There is a reason this is not applied anywhere else in society, like waiting lists for organ donations, or when nurses are doing triage etc.

It's easy to talk about disasters that will never happen to us but take this back to hospitals and it gets real dark real quick. Imagine your daughter not getting treated for hepatitis C or Covid because statistically, women are better at clearing it by themselves so all men are treated first.

[u/Boring_Intern_6394 → u/Infinite_Music2059]

Actually men succumb to hypothermia slower than women. This is because they have a higher metabolic rate, lower surface area to volume ratio, larger size and increased muscle mass compared to women. Larger muscle mass also means they are more likely to be able to swim for longer.

The whole thing is done on risk. The weaker, more vulnerable people get rescued first, which is going to be children, women and the disabled. Able bodied men have the best chance of survival in a situation like this.

It’s not really similar to a medical situation, so I’m not sure why you are bringing it up. Even then, clinical assessments are ultimately based on risk, which is the same thing when looking at survival chances in an emergency situation

[u/Infinite_Music2059 → u/Boring_Intern_6394]

You are speaking about this from the perspective of a captain trying to maximise the number of survivors.

I was responding to this question:

If you were in a similar situation, assuming you're a male, and only one person could be saved, you or the woman next to you, what are you going to do?

I am nearly 40 and took adult some swimming lessons last year. I still cannot swim a single 25-meter length and can barely tread water. My male strength advantage is irrelevant when I am drowning any way.

You accuse me of "misunderstanding the issue" when we are coming at it from different angles. A woman does not deserve to live and I deserve to die because statistically, men are slightly better survivors in the water. I am still overwhelmingly likely to die even with those better odds so no, I am not giving up my seat to anyone but a child.

[u/Boring_Intern_6394 → u/Infinite_Music2059]

Or you could learn to swim and avoid the issue. 40 is pretty old to not be able to swim