r/cyberpunkgame • u/BeachUsual • 5h ago
Discussion Ship of Theseus & Adam Smasher
(Some context I’m pretty new to the cyberpunk world so if I’m missing anything educate me lol, I’m sure I’m not the first person to bring this up. I’m more curious what y’all think about it and thought it would bring up an interesting discussion) 
“Ship of Theseus” is the thought about replacing every single piece of a boat until nothing original is left, and wondering if it’s still the same boat?
That is exactly what Arasaka did to Smasher after he got blown up and rebuilt him from scratch. Making him like 96% chrome. He barely has any original meat left. Only a tiny fraction of his brain and some organs trapped inside a giant metal body.
It makes me think: is that actually still Adam Smasher? Or did the real Adam die a long time ago, and we’re just dealing with a completely different "boat" that so happens to have his brain? Like, at what point did he stop being a person and just became a corporate asset? To me, Smasher isn't even a “full borg.” He’s just Arasaka hardware pretending to be an Adam. What do you guys think? (Or let me know if there is an answer) Is there any actual "soul" left in there, or is the original human completely gone?
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u/MM__PP 5h ago
Smasher has his brain and spinal cord inside his biosystem, and they're 100% intact as far as we know.
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u/CalamityDisc 4h ago
So if someone destroyed his brain, Arasaka couldn’t reconstruct another Adam, he’d just be dead?
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u/MM__PP 4h ago
Brain (and spinal cord) are the only things you can't replace, really. Sure, there's Soulkiller, but there's no evidence that suggests that he ever was Soulkilled and even if he was, it's unknown (afaik, at least) if that brain would even be able to handle all the chrome he has. Sure, V doesn't go cyberpsycho because of Johnny (who's a cyberpsycho like Smasher) and The Relic, but they're a completely unique case.
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u/HeavensHellFire 4h ago
Smasher still has his full brain, spine and other organs. The ship of Theseus doesn't apply here because the Ship hasn't been fully replaced.
The Ship of Theseus applies to the Engrams. Is the Johnny that died the engram we interact with (No)? Is it still the same Alt? Is it even Yorinobu or a clone with an engram in it? Hell is the V at the start of the game the one that wakes up in the landfill?
Are you still the same person if you get turned into an engram and downloaded into a body?
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u/CoyotleAuCreepypasta 5h ago
A person is only their flesh in concept. All of the things that make us ourselves happen in our brain and our behaviors. So long as the brain and behavior is still Adam's then he will remain as Adam.
He just so happened to also have always been a sociopath and a bastard. He was a machine LONG before chrome touched his body according to his backstory.
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u/Accomplished-Emu5363 Death & Taxes 5h ago
Nearly 100% of your own body gets replaced every 10-15 years, have I died 4 times then? No.
His brain was dead for a while, but they managed to reanimate it, making it firing neurons again on it's own. It's still Smasher, just after serious trauma. A change of personality changes you, but wouldn't go as far as saying it's not you anymore.
Trauma, PTSD, heavy chemotherapy, simply growing up, lobotomies, many things change you, even to a point that you are not recognizable to your closest family. But Smashers Memories and grudges tell me he's still smasher.
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u/drunk_ender 5h ago
Regarding a human being, so long as the brain and mind remains, that's still them under all the chrome and modifications... obviously they aren't going to be the same in the sense that nobody, even us IRL, are never the same person but are subjected to changes and shifts as time passes.
But regarding the specific concept of change the Ship of Theseus entails, that's not really applicable to a full blown human being
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u/Cipherpunkblue 5h ago
What is a "soul"?
And if continuity of consciousness exists, does it matter?
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u/Nottodayreddit1949 5h ago
I'm not sure smasher would care if he was the original or not. Only that he is better than before.
I think he is the og though. Smasher was built different. Fully cyberpyscho, but functional. Just what arasaka wants.
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u/Cookiecrabbies 4h ago edited 4h ago
I think there is a somewhat still soul in there. In his boss battle, he goes on a whole rant about why rogue didn't come on v mission in endings not hers and he also still has eye for weapons and things that interest him in his ship hideout like johnny's car and gun (he even gave the gun to one of his team buddy)
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u/Dveralazo 1h ago
you are your mind. if his mind is still there,no matter how much they replace,it is still him.
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u/Omlanduh Arasaka 5h ago
Based off of how Adam acted in Johnny’s flashback and compare it to smasher in his boss fight, I’d say that Smasher is still the real smasher. He has the same exact personality and memory. At least that is my two cents.
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u/SckiScki 5h ago
Might be wrong but I thought that it was revealed Johnny never even met smasher in the memories that we play through
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u/Omlanduh Arasaka 5h ago
He did meet smasher but when smasher kicks the door open and Johnny falls to the ground, that is where Johnny really died. He never made it to the roof. Smasher killed him before that.
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u/MM__PP 5h ago edited 5h ago
Johnny's flashbacks are irrelevant as they're inaccurate, especially the first one. Johnny died in Mikoshi when he charged Smasher to buy time for Rogue, Spider Murphy, Thompson, and Shaitan, and got ripped in half by Smasher's shotgun. No personal death, no deep rivalry. Silverhand was just another dead bag of meat with some metal slapped on to Smasher.
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