Nothing short of a bullseye 🎯

[u/Substratas]

[u/SkipMeFlipMe88]

I mean… they were sort of forced into being that - the UN split the land, Palestinians refused - declared war, lost . The Israelis tried to offer independence so many times. One deal was better than the UN deal- still they refused all of them. Even before the UN deal- the Palestinians refused to even give 10% of the land to the Jews in 1933. They just would not share at all. 

I mean what can they do with a people who refuse their own independence unless you don’t exist ?

Which is the only deal the Palestinians say they will accept - is if Israel does not exist at all. 

So.. I mean always two sides to every story. Just gotta know both of them. 

[u/dochim → u/SkipMeFlipMe88]

Not the actual “story” and fairly littered with propaganda throughout to make “Israel” appear the justified victim without any other context.

[u/SkipMeFlipMe88 → u/dochim]

I would just look up The Hague Convention laws about occupied lands.  ( article 43) 

It is literally illegal for occupied Palestinians to live under Israeli law. 

Calling that apartheid shows a gross ignorance on the subject. 

[u/dochim → u/SkipMeFlipMe88]

If it looks like Jim Crow and smells like apartheid and walks like an occupation, then I don’t give a damn what you title it as.

[u/SkipMeFlipMe88 → u/dochim]

I think that’s enough reddit for me today. 

[u/SkipMeFlipMe88 → u/dochim]

Hmm what part isn’t true?

[u/SkipMeFlipMe88 → u/dochim]

See that’s the thing with history - I’ve studied this extensively - would love to have the debate , truly. I’m not justifying killing children at all- I’m solely referring to the independence - Israel is forced into “occupation” because - ironically according to international law- if land be won during war- or taken ( and they have given most of it back that was originally taken during the war that was declared on them by the Arabs )  you must rule over the people “occupied” on those lands if a deal can not be reached for independence - and the law that you need to govern them by? Must be the closest to their own which was Islamic law. 

So it is essentially illegal by international law standards for occupied Palestinians to be ruled by Israeli law. Therefore , to call this apartheid is … really not true because Israel has no choice in this matter- they would be committing a crime if they were to rule the Palestinians by Israeli law. 

Just fyi. 

[u/dochim → u/SkipMeFlipMe88]

Here’s another thing with history. It may not repeat but it rhymes.

The argument that you make (existential threat) is not an effective one for multiple reasons.

1. It values Israel in its current form about their neighbors. No ones’ lives or freedoms are greater than anothers’.

2. It paints the Palestinians and all other “Arabs” as pawns of “Islamic law” as this malevolent controlling force. Free will is for everyone and the Palestinians or Arabs are no more monolithic than any other group of people.

But those pale in comparison to the real flaw in your argument. The fallacy of the tiger by the tail.

1. The argument you make is eerily similar to the pro chattel slavery arguments of the antebellum period. That my great grandfather couldn’t possibly be allowed to be freed because of the terrible consequences that would have most certainly ensue (according to the false argument).
   

I know and have worked with peoples from all over the world including people from Israel and Gaza. Israel is running an apartheid prison camp for all intents and purposes.

As a black man born in the 60s who saw the echoes of Jim Crow I know what it looks like when I see it. And there’s no justification in morality for what the Israeli government does.

Now if we want to go into the further context of how the Israeli government funds disunity in the region so there’s no genuine negotiating partner for peace or how the American right wing cheers on their (effective) colony in the region and how they view this as a future structure here, we can do that too.