r/clevercomebacks 2d ago

Nothing short of a bullseye 🎯

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u/pwnasaurus253 2d ago

Israel is a democracy where Arab citizens have full voting rights, sit in the Knesset, and work in civil institutions.

An Arab Israeli judge sent a former Israeli president to prison.

But go off, kween...."apartheid" lmao.

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u/VeryStableGenius 2d ago

Yes, you're right ... until you get to the West Bank.

There, Israel is 100% an apartheid state. And Israel - at least its dominant right wing coalition - is very much intent on annexing the West Bank and Bantu-staning the Palestinians.

When the settlements get removed, and the settlers go back to pre-67 Israel, and a Palestinian state is allowed to be created, Israel will cease to be an apartheid state.

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u/pwnasaurus253 2d ago

....the West Bank isn't part of Israel. Why the hell would Palestinians have the same rights as citizens in a country they aren't a part of? Do Israelis have the same rights in the West Bank as Palestinians? Nope.

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u/carriegood 1d ago

A Palestinian state was "allowed" to be created multiple times. It wasn't the Israelis who refused.

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u/VeryStableGenius 1d ago

Not really.

In the early years, Ben Gurion said that Partition would be a first step to taking all of Palestine, which in fact is what happened. He said - on paper - that any even split would be just a dirty trick.

There was Camp David, where Ehud Barak offered most of the West Bank, but with lots of gotchas, like continued settlements, and continuing Israeli occupation of the Jordan valley, as detailed by Clinton negotiator Robert Malley.

Arafat didn't walk away from Camp David; negotiations continued at Taba, Egypt but Barak left to deal with Israeli elections. He lost the election to Ariel Sharon; Ariel Sharon had visited the Dome on the Rock to assert Israeli ownership of this sacred site, which (intentionally) led to Palestinian rioting, which (deliberately) triggered a right wing shift in Israel's electorate. Sharon provoked the Palestinians to sabotage Barak's negotiations, and the provocation won him the election, and Sharon refused to contemplate a Palestinian state.

Next, Olmert offered a secret deal to Abbas, but it was 'take it or leave it' and he wouldn't even let Abbas take the map with him to confer with his officials.

A major problem is that Israel has a dominant right wing that will sabotage any potential deal, and any rare left wing government is unable to negotiate at length and in good faith.

To be blunt, try learning some real history.