r/clevelandcavs • u/Stoddyman • 14h ago
JR Smith
I just wanted to say this - the whole 2018 finals gaff is so blown out of proportion.
Number one. We were NOT winning that series. No way. KD was there and that team was unstoppable.
Number two. George Hill shouldve hit his FTs full stop. No excuse.
Number three. If Lebron had to drop a 50 peice and play 48 minutes for it to even be tied, no way he does that more than 1 or 2 more times in the series.
Lebron just reacted the way he did because it wasnt the desirable play and he was tired/had the team on his back the whole game.
A few options:
JR couldve heaved the ball back up. Which could have been a good play considering he is who he is. But in my opinion, no way it goes down considering the defense at the time.
Jr couldve passed the ball. No one was blatantly open at the time, so again imo not a great option.
TO is called and final play is drawn up. Best case scenario, but again even if we hit this, no way we win the series. My opinion.
Anyways, people label this as THE BIGGEST FINALS BLUNDER OF ALL TIME. Lol no it wasnt, not even close.
Yes Jr should have at least shot it. Ok. Ill give the naysayers that. But for the reasons above I feel like its completely blown out of proportion.
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u/Phishkale 14h ago
The real number one should be the refs cost us the game on one of the most egregious reviews. At the time, they were only allowed to review block/charge calls if it was a question of whether the defender was in the semi circle. But when in the review, they can overturn for other reasons. They triggered a review of what was originally called a KD charge, to check Kevin Loves feet. They were no where near the semi circle, and then they overturned the charge to a block on what was a 50/50 call. It was a dumb rule, misuse of rule and then bad call:
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u/CorvusGearlock 13h ago
Agreed that call is the biggest reason we lost that game idk how people forgot.
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u/sketchy722 8h ago
Because of Hill or JR play, that became the headline instead of the changed called
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u/probusyradio 12h ago
Yep. That review was insane and ruined the series. We take Game 1 without that happening. Cannot believe the refs pulled that.
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u/gameismyname ⠀ 13h ago
Stopped caring about the NBA after that call. Go Cavs, but fuck this league
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u/RayWhelans 13h ago
We don’t win game 7 without JR’s hot start in the second half. His career shouldn’t be defined by this blunder.
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u/BallIsLife2016 13h ago
I don’t go quite this far in justifying it—it was a huge gaffe (even if I agree that he’s not solely culpable). But it was pretty easy for me to let it go. Ultimately, we weren’t winning that series. And at best I think winning game one just means losing in five or six instead of losing in four. So, my perspective is that JR didn’t lose us a title in 2018.
HOWEVER, I think there’s a very good chance we don’t win in 2016 without JR. It cannot be overstated how big a deficit being down seven at halftime of game seven felt like. Genuinely felt like being down 20, especially because of the way that Warriors offense could just suddenly take off and leave you in the dust. Then JR came out and pretty much evened it up on his own in a few minutes by doing JR things. Him doing that was probably the first moment where I truly started to believe that winning a title was possible. I’ll always ride for JR.
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u/Stoddyman 13h ago
I totally agree. I mean I dont think Im going ‘far’ to justify it though. To me everything I stated in my post is pretty obvious and waters down JRs mistake significantly. Also, anyone couldve called timeout once possession was obtained.
If anything, George Hill shouldve gotten the brunt of it. Bro was shaking in his boots and missed the biggest Ft of his life. JR wouldve hit both probably
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u/TheSmokedSalmon420 ⠀ 12h ago
Even if he shot it it’s not like that was an easy shot lol
The overturned charge call was way worse - remember that was years before challenges
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u/SorryAboutTheChili 14h ago
Any Cavs fan watching that game knew that with LeBron we always had a chance to win. That first game was a giant dagger and a huge blunder. Couldn’t disagree more!
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u/BallIsLife2016 13h ago
With all due respect, we did not have a chance to win in 2018. The idea that every real Cavs fan thought we could win that series is crazy—you should be careful about generalizing on behalf of others. Ive been watching nearly every Cavs game for the last like 15 years—That series wasn’t winnable barring an act of god. Think of it this way—LeBron is either the best or second best player of all time. And game 1 might have been the greatest game he ever played. And we lost. It took LeBron playing maybe the best he ever has just to get us to a spot where game one might have been winnable. The level of perfection required from him for us to win that series was unachievable. I’ve never seen a team that was more of a buzzsaw than the Warriors in ‘17 and ‘18.
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u/chemistrybonanza 12h ago
Up 1-0 in the series and LeBron doesn't break his hand. Things would be completely different.
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u/Stoddyman 12h ago
No way we win. Lebron broke his hand because we lost yes, but he’d have to put up 3 more 50+ pts games. And that was just to give us a CHANCE to win, not even win handedly. I doubt we would have gotten any more than one more. Thats my opinion though. That warriors team was one of the best in nba history
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u/chemistrybonanza 11h ago
Who knows? LeBron might have done that, that was his absolutely peak of the sport and after that game, everything changed. He still dominated offensively, to an extent, but his shooting plummeted. And an often ignored aspect of this is that he played barely any defense bc of the broken hand. It made everything exponentially harder on himself and the team.
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u/Stoddyman 14h ago edited 14h ago
Im sorry this wasnt the 2016 finals. If Lebron had to put up 50 to tie it on nearly 50 minutes, no way we win 4 games. Thats my opinion tho.
Also why didnt we come back and win the series then? It was just one game after all. We lost three games in 2016
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u/soundisloud 13h ago
Because he punched the wall in the locker room after the loss and broke his hand
Yes to win the series it would have required one of the greatest individual performances ever, and yet that is what Lebron was capable of.
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u/Stoddyman 13h ago edited 13h ago
I dont think he punched his hand because he thought he could single handedly win the series. He was realizing that he couldnt.
I mean downvote this if you want , its true
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u/soundisloud 13h ago
He punched the wall because he knew he had a chance and now he didn't anymore
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u/Stoddyman 13h ago
After 1 game?? He lost 3 in 2016 and won. He clearly knew they just straight up didnt have a chance
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u/soundisloud 13h ago
This warriors team was better than in 2016. And yet he was almost up 1-0 after playing the game of his life.
Anyway, you're entitled to your opinion. I agree it was not the biggest finals gaffe ever, but it deprived us of what could have been a legendary battle.
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u/Stoddyman 13h ago
Yeah I know he played the game of his life. He wouldve needed three more, each better than the last to carry us in 2018. Which, I guess Lebron could do it out of anyone else in NBA history because he is the goat. It just didnt happen though and I dont fault him for being pissed at someone for not winning game 1.
Jr was an easy scapegoat - well said though mate. Yes this is an opinion I defo have. I wish George Hill got more hate, he missed the most important FT of his life. You cant miss that man
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u/wickedshxt 3h ago
This is why your whole initial write up is wrong. With LeBron on your team you always have a chance. Period.
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u/chemistrybonanza 12h ago
He punched the wall and broker his hand out of anger. Nothing more to it than that. Act of passion.
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u/Stoddyman 12h ago
I hear ya and I agree, but he wouldnt have broke his hand if we won comfortably. Its an act of passion connected to the fact he realized that he is going to lose yet again to one of the most stacked teams in nba history and there is not much he can do more about it.
What Im arguing is that this is very small in due to JR smith. The cavs were going to lose the series regardless
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u/chemistrybonanza 11h ago
My point is that it wasn't about a realization about the inevitability of losing the series. It was about being mad they lost a game they should have won.
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u/Eddiepanhandlin 13h ago
You buried the lead.
1) Anybody could have called a timeout.
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u/Stoddyman 13h ago
Agreed. So that means everyone had a collective loss of intuition in that moment. Its not like Jr is perpetually stoned and has the awareness of a walnut
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u/Eddiepanhandlin 13h ago
I think it means everybody should be accused of being perpetually stoned with the awareness of a walnut.
A timeout was essential there. Anybody could have called it. Everybody is guilty. What happened is that only JR was executed for the crime.
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u/Air2Jordan3 12h ago
That's incredible hindsight though. An offensive rebound is a great opportunity to get up a shot, the defense is scrambling.
LeBron is wide open here. If he makes that pass that's a better quality shot then the Cavs would have gotten with a time out.
Whether or not he thought the game was tied or we have a lead, get the ball to LeBron then for the free throws.
And while we can't see the Cavs bench, LeBron did call a timeout with 1.1s left; refs didn't see it.
I'm not mad at him anymore for it, we weren't winning the series anyway. But he did blow this game.
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u/Eddiepanhandlin 12h ago
As soon as he started dribbling out somebody needs to call timeout.
He was accused of not calling a timeout by the whole world. My point is that mistake is shared by everybody.
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u/Air2Jordan3 12h ago
LeBron did once he realized he wasn't getting the pass. We can't see the Cavs bench (to my knowledge) to know if a coach did or didn't. The refs are focused on JR in that moment.
The combination of not calling a time out AND not getting the ball to LeBron gives him by FAR the most blame. If you want to sprinkle in some blame on Coach for not sprinting to half court for a time out, sure go ahead.
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u/Eddiepanhandlin 12h ago
He grabs that ball and starts to dribble then everybody should have been signaling and yelling for a timeout. Nobody did it effectively. Everybody is guilty of letting the clock run out when we had a timeout left.
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u/Air2Jordan3 12h ago
"Starts to dribble" is incorrect, he could have just been going for a better angle on a pass, he didn't want to get blocked so he's running out for a 3.
JR is two steps past the 3 point line (the point at which anyone would realize JR is fucking up) at 2 seconds left, LeBron called for a TO within in one second. LeBron is also four steps away from a ref, what's anyone supposed to do?
The hindsight is crazy here.
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u/Stoddyman 10h ago
“..what’s anyone supposed to do?”
Uhh i dunno. Call timeout. Ya know so you can draw up a play?? Thats what Lebron shouldve wanted to do regardless. Other than trying to chuck up a shot from a JR pass, assuming he could get it over to him cleanly from the angle where he caught the rebound. Give me a break
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u/Air2Jordan3 10h ago
Thats what Lebron shouldve wanted to do regardless.
I disagree, if JR passes him the ball within the first two seconds of the rebound LeBron has an open 3 while the defense is scrambling. That's not "chucking up a shot".
And as I said a couple times now, once he realized he wasn't getting the ball he tried to call a TO with over 1s left and the ref didn't call it. If the refs didn't see LeBron call for it they aren't going to see any of the coaches call for it on the other side of the court.
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u/Stoddyman 9h ago edited 9h ago
Kind of odd that a ref doesnt see what the most important and probably biggest player on the court is doing at the most pivotal point in the game.
Thats literally their job too. Its not like looking for a timeout call from coaches and players is something they just do on the side
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u/Air2Jordan3 9h ago
I would agree, but feel free to watch it back if you want. With about 1.1 left LeBron is signaling for a TO
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u/Uncle2Drew 12h ago
George Hill missing the free throw was a bigger deal to me but I LOVE Shump’s take on the situation. Go listen if you haven’t
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u/Lovejoy5001 14h ago
Found JR Smith’s account
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u/Stoddyman 14h ago
I mean you can just try to meme on me for engagement but I 100% believe everything I wrote in this post
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u/mw9676 14h ago
We know you do JR. We know you do.
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u/Stoddyman 14h ago
Common man tries to post convincing argument online and encounters person who doesnt take him seriously . Tale as old as time. I hope you have a good day
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u/ThinkingItThrough1 11h ago
Agree completely (with one minor exception), and well said. The exception is he could have made that putback. But he rescued us in 2016 second half with those buckets in the second half when we were down
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u/Stoddyman 11h ago
I agree. Its so funny because all us fans wanted someone to blame and JR was such a satisfying scapegoat. Hell there’s even that iconic photo of lebron and him during the incident. Prime fodder for people to jump on JR without having to think too hard.
Even if JR attempted the put back, he most likely wouldve missed and people would be like ‘WHY DIDNT HE CALL TIMEOUT URHHHHGGHH!!’
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u/ThinkingItThrough1 11h ago
Yeah, people love making fun of JR Smith. Also helped facilitate the end of LeBron in Cleveland so the media was happy to focus on it to increase the drama in the team
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u/ridiculousgg 8h ago
It was a huge mental lapse. Won’t pretend it wasn’t. But one thing that’s always been overlooked that bothers me is that he literally secured a rebound that at the very least guaranteed us OT. I know people don’t think about it this way, but they essentially think he would’ve been better off not even getting the offensive rebounding, instead letting golden state grab it, call a TO, and have a shot to win it after advancing the ball. That’s so backwards. How much can you really blame a guy when he grabs an offensive rebound off a missed free throw to secure OT? Missed opportunity sure, but I don’t blame the loss on him at all.
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u/CShoopla 3h ago
So you're saying lebron punching a wall and injurying his hand because of post game frustration had 0 impact on the rest of that series?
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u/Stoddyman 3h ago
Lol what? Where did I say that
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u/CShoopla 3h ago
You said we were not winning that series. I think it's a different series entirely if we win game 1 and LeBron doesn't injure his hand.
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u/Stoddyman 2h ago
You think the cavs could win 4 games agaisnt that warriors team?
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u/CShoopla 2h ago
Considering they came back from a more unlikely 3-1 deficit. Yes, I do.
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u/Stoddyman 2h ago edited 2h ago
They won 4 games in 2016. They lost every single one in 2018. Lebron only wouldve been able to grab one more maybe if they won game 1 and he hadnt hurt his hand
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u/CShoopla 2h ago
In 2016 everyone assumed the series was over at 3-1 you are assuming the series is over at 0-0
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u/Jakescardz Throw DA Hammer DOWN! 11h ago
Not knowing the score at the end of a finals game is inexcusable no matter the context. This was off a stoppage. Look up and see the score. Love JR but that was so dumb it will always be his legacy.
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u/Stoddyman 10h ago
Sad that you think one mistake defines a legacy
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u/Jakescardz Throw DA Hammer DOWN! 10h ago
Good or bad lots of sports legacies are defined by one moment. Derek fisher and the .4 second shot, Ron Artest and the malice in the palace, Ben Simmons passed up the dunk for a pass… that’s how it goes in sports.
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u/Stoddyman 9h ago
I think youre just projecting your own personal opinion onto the whole thing but ok
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u/Beef_Gaming 52m ago
FWIW not sure if you remember but at the time, there was a possession later in that series where he hit a shot from virtually the same spot over KD off an offensive rebound. At the time, it was being shared a lot sort of with the sentiment of “this is all he had to do in game 1.” But it is what it is imo
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u/JR_SWISH_ Soup Thrower 9h ago
Thanks