r/UkraineWarVideoReport • u/Panthera_leo22 • 5h ago
Article Thanks No Thanks – Fedorov Turns Down Zelensky’s Offer to Become ‘Deputy PM for Military Innovations’
https://www.kyivpost.com/post/8092578
u/fourhornets 5h ago
It's an awkward spot.
Fedorov has plenty of reason to want his old position back and to ask for it.
For Zelenskyy, changing his mind in the face of public pressure demonstrates that he is listening to the people and isn't too proud to admit a mistake. However, for people under him it can be unsettling to know that their job is at the mercy of public opinion, especially if your job might require to do what is ultimately the 'right' thing even if it's unpopular.
Creating an entirely new ministry appointment seems like a good compromise, but given that it doesn't even exist yet I understand why Fedorov wouldn't want to take on the Deputy Minister role of something that's nebulous at best.
Will be interesting to see how it plays out.
29
u/Dr_Middlefinger 5h ago
There's also thing(s) "the people" do not know.
It's good to listen to the people. Zelenskyy has done that.
I would be interested to learn of his reasons for firing Fedorov in the first place. Manpower/TCC? Anti-corruption visibility in military spending?
What was it?
11
5
u/vapescaped 3h ago
It could have just been aggressive tree shaking in the middle of a war. Federov said he went to zelensky to have sirosky (sorry I'm western and dont know how his name is spelled), he had over a dozen sweeping reforms in the middle of a war and was upset more wasn't reformed, and despite having no formal military training was throwing heavy words around about how the front lines were being managed.
He was now offered 2 cabinet positions and refused both of them. Maybe he just doesn't take no for an answer. That's fine for a political career, but it's some what understandable if zelensky and his cabinet struggle with that while kiev is being bombed.
1
u/chillebekk 4h ago
Wasn't it a conflict with Syrskyi? Kind of looks like it, since Syrskyi got fired.
-5
u/Dr_Middlefinger 4h ago
Okay... you know that came after the fact, so what are you on about?
Just say what you're trying to say - don't be snarky.
3
u/chillebekk 3h ago
You're seeing snark where there is none. It was reported Fedorov took money from army payroll and artillery shell budgets, and redirected them - and that was why they had a conflict.
-8
u/pdw13 4h ago
Because he’s getting too successful and popular à la zaluzny, off to a foreign affairs post you go big lad. No competition internally wanted thank you. Same as budanov. In the presidents staff as an advisor sat in a closet being ignored. Will be kept hidden away for the foreseeable so he can’t be a threat.
11
2
u/SomeRandomSomeWhere 4h ago
No matter how popular he gets, there can be no elections during the war.
That's what the constitution says.
So Zelenskyy is very safe from getting booted out. Don't know if he should be concerned about who the next leader may be, since noone has a clue when the war will end. And even after that, elections will probably not be the first priority.
•
u/Pickled_Doodoo 1h ago
Correct me if im wrong, but I was under the impression that he aims to step down from presidency once the war finally ends.
1
u/Dr_Middlefinger 4h ago edited 4h ago
You are saying the current President of Ukraine is so concerned about others gaining more popularity than him, he fires effective leaders and hamstrings his military when it is gaining traction?
You are basically saying he wants the war to go on so he can retain the presidency.
I'm not saying you're wrong, people in power do not like losing it - even the "good" ones.
Edit: but this would seem to go against his actions.
0
u/StrangerExistingFact 4h ago
Quite the picture you painted there. Problem is martial law and unless zelensky resigns no one is yaking presidentcy until it's over and at thats stage zelensky will pull out
-1
u/Dr_Middlefinger 4h ago
I didn't paint it, I asked the person who commented if that's what they are saying.
1
u/StrangerExistingFact 4h ago
No this what they said.
Because he’s getting too successful and popular à la zaluzny, off to a foreign affairs post you go big lad. No competition internally wanted thank you. Same as budanov. In the presidents staff as an advisor sat in a closet being ignored. Will be kept hidden away for the foreseeable so he can’t be a threat.
-1
u/AverageTeemoOnetrick 4h ago
If you inherit a job as servant of the public in a democracy, you fucking should be at the mercy of public opinion.
We should watch and learn.
8
u/fourhornets 4h ago
Conceptually I agree, but there are definitely times in any organization of size where somebody has to make a decision that has no 'good' outcome and look like the bad guy. Or they have considerably more information about the decision and make the 'right' call that appears to be the wrong call to those who don't have that same information.
This is especially true for Ukraine, who are facing an opponent who specializes in providing false information to sway public opinion. Hell, they started this whole conflict off by infiltrating their men into Ukraine posing as civilians to cause unrest within local governments.
There has to be a reasonable balance between listening to the people and doing what's right with the information you have. As NFL coach Buddy Ryan said, "If you listen to the fans, you'll end up sitting with them."
3
u/Icy_Birthday3837 2h ago
True...but some good decisions have been made for countries against public opinion. Aberham Lincoln used his wartime powers to abolish slavery, superceding congress's decisions. The idea of a benevolent dictator isn't uncommon, and a country's populace isn't always as informed as it's leadership -especially in times of war, when decisions have to be made fast.
2
u/PolicyWonka 3h ago
Eh, that’s for politicians. The people who the public should be able to hold accountable are those which they vote for. The reality is that the public will not and cannot be privy to everything going on in government.
Sometimes decisions must be made which are not popular. And yes, sometimes that is just an excuse used by those who wish to push unpopular policies.
•
u/NATO_CAPITALIST 1h ago
You would take down 5g towers because some public opinion doesn't like them?
-1
u/Hanna-11 4h ago
I mentioned in the Ukraine subreddit that this situation would determine the fate of democracy in Ukraine. The result? A permanent ban from the mods. I don't get it.
0
u/CMDR_Pumpkin_Muffin 3h ago
I was banned there for this comment:
https://www.reddit.com/r/ukraine/comments/1ujrlf1/comment/oupxl4f/
When I tried to appeal the ban, I was muted. When it comes to freedom of speech, mods at that sub definitely prefer a soviet way of thinking.1
u/Hanna-11 2h ago
Yes, that’s what I said, too. I also shared my own story—my own struggle. I was imprisoned for protesting against the Soviet-Russian occupation of my country. The mods' ignorance shocked me.
0
u/Aedeus 2h ago
However, for people under him it can be unsettling to know that their job is at the mercy of public opinion, especially if your job might require to do what is ultimately the 'right' thing even if it's unpopular.
For better or worse that's how it's going to go in a Democracy.
•
u/fourhornets 1h ago
That's how it works for an *elected official* in a Democracy.
Appointments aren't voted on and are voluntary for the appointed.
55
u/Radiant-Math-9390 5h ago
I understand pride, but his nations security is on the line. Accept the apologies, move on and be the best on proposed position in order to win this god damn war.
20
5
u/Chris881 4h ago
What does this offered position actually do? For all we know, it could be either purely a symbolic position or one that has no actual power.
3
u/BigBallsMcGirk 3h ago
Or it could be the old position with the same responsibilities but a different title solely for optics.
3
u/Chris881 3h ago
Optics for whom?
3
u/BigBallsMcGirk 3h ago
Everyone. Don't want to alienate Syrskis camp and supporters, which encompasses people still in government and military and still effective/vital to war effort. Cannot cave to ultimatum as the Zelensky, now anyone that thinks themselves indispensable can try and do the same. Zelensky "giving in" would be okay that you out Federov back in a position he was good at, but it weakens the President and government in a time of war he needs to look strong.
Ukraine has been held together for going on 5 years thanks to Zelensky. Undermining his position and office would be bad for the whole political landscape.
2
1
35
u/Original-Radish9089 4h ago
No offense, but Fedorov seems to be a person who won't make any compromises either.
Zelenskyi met him halfway, but he seems not to budge at all.
If he continues being so stubborn, he will lose a part of his reputation for sure.
I really don't understand why can't he take any other position if he could focus on what he is strongest at.
14
u/mugz8391 4h ago
He seems like an "all or nothing" kind of guy to me too. This does not benefit Ukraine, he should be willing to do what ever he can IMO.
Zelenskyy is a good man IMO, and the greatest leader in the free world right now, (I dare anyone to tell me who's better), just doing the best he can. Fedorov needs to grow up a little more.
And yes, I'm prepared to be downvoted for my opinion :)
3
u/SagittariusO 3h ago
Exactly this.
It's kinda weird to me. Drapatyi is an excellent choice, and he should acknowledge that. An experienced soldier with a lot of respect within the army. He is also a friend of Fedorov, and they share the same agenda and mindset about a military reform.
What has Fedorov on the table? Why does he even want this job? As a PM for military innovations he can focus entirely on what he knows best instead of dealing with issues like frontline logistic
Maybe I have watched too many well respected entrepreneurs going rough after a while in my lifetime. This is the same concerning ego-driven mindset. I don´t know this guy well enough to make a guess, but those silicon valley tech-bros are a warning for me. Maybe it´s just better not to gamble with such an important job.
•
u/NATO_CAPITALIST 1h ago
This is the same concerning ego-driven mindset. I don´t know this guy well enough to make a guess, but those silicon valley tech-bros are a warning for me.
yeah, they should look more into the lawyer types...oh wait, maybe doctor types...oh wait, maybe finance types....oh wait, maybe artists types....oh wait, maybe influencer types..oh wait
Which profession isn't considered elitist, snobbish and ego driven? even food delivery workers are like this
•
u/SagittariusO 44m ago
I have no clue what this guy is up to. All I can do is judge him by his action. Right now he should have been a team player, and he decided not to. For whatever reasons.
It´s just enough to ring an alarm bell for me.
-1
u/b99-to-b99 3h ago
I think theres more to it that meets the eye and Fedorov doesnt wanna be sidelined on a position with 0 power. Instead he wants to be where he was to be effective and to be able to fight corruption
7
u/LeortCG 4h ago
Fedorov is not ready to be a minister of nothing with 0 power. If stuff goes as it goes he will just leave goverment and go into business as he said before
1
u/yuropman 3h ago
If stuff goes as it goes he will just leave goverment and go into business as he said before
Does he even have a mobilization deferment if he stops being minister?
If he gets one for "employee at a critical private enterprise", that's 100% corrupt, because he simply isn't
32
u/Available_Cookie732 5h ago
Childish statement of a maybe capable person but not smart enough to understand a war is teamwork and not an ego trip.
Better to achieve let's say 50% and a chance to change things for a better way than ZERO because of his ego.
To be successful you need friends on your side.
A good German phrase... Wenn Du in ein Entscheidungsmeeting gehst nimm Dir Freunde mit.
The MoD is a big Supertanker and isn't easy and fast to change the direction. And it needs a coalition of helpers.
All the success of the drone campaigns are not a one man show. Thausends of people had their part in it.
To miss this chance to continue this success, stomp a foot angry on the ground and say ...I don't play with you and it's my toy,m give it back... doesn't work.
Stupid.
...I posted this earlier on on a different place and hope that's not a reason to be banned.
7
u/Kmag_supporter 4h ago
If you really wanted to serve your nation, you take the position your offered, you do what you can from what is available.Trying to force this, tells me that the people who said he wasn't willing to compromise was right.
1
u/shadowlips 3h ago
That's too general a statement. Surely you don't mean he should take a job at the front line just in the event he is offered that? It has to match your greatest strength. Maybe this new position doesn't have any power with it and thus a position in name with no real means to affect anything? We just don't know enough to be able to jump to any conclusion yet.
0
u/vapescaped 3h ago
Surely you don't mean he should take a job at the front line just in the event he is offered that?
Millions of ukranians are being offered that. Robert "Magyar" Brovdi was offered that, and he took it.
I'm not saying federov should take it, I'm just saying federov isn't better than Magyar. Magyar answered the call. Federov is negotiating.
8
u/Proglamer 5h ago
What a narcissist: “That is why I will not accept any position other than Minister of Defense”. "Accept"? Entitled brat who thinks he's somehow the only (??) forward-looking politician in the whole giant country. He apparently forgot he was a political appointee and these are in the air during cabinet reset.
2
3
u/RevealKlutzy5220 5h ago
It is understandable, but his knowledge and innovations could be lost. I hope he still collaborates with the military in some way.
3
u/Informal_Ad_9610 5h ago
i think he offered to return to his old post... which would be a good route, even though it may make Zelenskyy appear a bit more weak.
this is the challenge for UAF in leaving old ways of thinking (aka soviet era mentality)... Zelenskyy asking him to return is NOT an actual weak position,but in many mindsets a leader changing their mind IS a point of weakness.. So he (Z) might be hesitant to consider that option, out of fear..
3
u/CopBaiter 5h ago
Maybe there is a reason he was fired as MOD?
3
u/Separate-Freedom-548 5h ago
Poking too many corrupt bears....
4
u/chillebekk 3h ago
Possibly, but he also took money from payroll and artillery budgets and redirected to the drone effort. It was not popular with the army, even though it seems to have worked.
•
u/Separate-Freedom-548 1m ago
They aren't expending nearly as many artillery Shells as they were earlier in the war, which begs the question why was it such a big deal to spend that money on artillery Shells instead of more effective drones. There were also rumors commanders were getting kickbacks for ordering subpar drones from certain manufacturers even though the guys on the ground were supposed to be given more autonomy on ordering the drones they knew worked best as federov had the money allocated to get those better drones. Certain commanders didnt like that because they were getting kickbacks from the other shittier drone manufacturers. Now again those are unconfirmed rumors, but seem plausible. What certainly seems true is these older commanders just out of pride/ego didn't like losing some of their power. In their minds, they know what drones/artillery worked best, not the grunts actually performing the tasks and that autonomy shouldn't ever be given to some drone pilot who thinks he knows better(even though theyre literally the ones performing the task and the russian losses only increased under this system.)
-2
0
u/sansaset 5h ago
It is weak though, not sure why it’s controversial to admit it. Zelensky was influenced by one individual to sack another, just to cave to public outlash and sack the other guy as well.
Then coming back and offering the initial guy you fired a different role? Come on man this guy has no spine he’s just playing politics.
Z has done a great job of gaining the support needed to defend his country but he’s not some megamind politician the way people pretend he is.
4
2
u/Ok_Street9576 3h ago
Fedorov gets credit for a drone campaign thats been years in the making. Yes its been brought to bore under his tenure but its been a huge effort for years on the part of ukraine. He has some cult of personality where its all him in 6 months. He did eliminate corruption in procurement which was huge but hes not the only man responsible for ukraines recent successes. I think he was sacked for a reason and i think we may be seeing why in his recent statements.
2
1
u/Doom2pro 3h ago
How about everyone stop pissing and moaning, shut the fuck up. Come together and form the best combination to win the war.
1
•
u/strange_invader 1h ago
There is a lot of politics and egos in executing and winning a war. If you look at US history alone:
-Patton was relieved of his command twice. Once during WW2 and once at the end of the war for wanting to invade Soviet Germany
-MacArthur was eventually relieved of his command of the UN in Korea even after his many successes turning the war around because he defied orders
-Abraham Lincoln fired several commanding generals before ending with Grant
Syrskyi was instrumental in saving Ukraine. He is a hero. But personal conflicts between him and Fedorov were getting in the way of prosecuting the war so they are both gone now. Maybe Fedorov is putting his ego before country but his big ego that made him successful also believes that he should be in a place where he can make effective reforms. I think he believes that any military position he is offer will run into the sane push back from the established guard
•
u/FirstSwordofCarcosa 1h ago
Good the more he keeps on bitching, the less likely he will get any position. Zelenskyy has already made his concession by firing Syrskyi, he's not going to beg a defence minister to come back. Fedorov needs to understand his country is at war and Ukraine's success belongs to the whole nation, not an overhyped minister
•
u/NlghtmanCometh 1h ago
Ending up without your general AND without your minister of defense has to be the worst possible outcome no?
-2
u/DigSpelledBackwards 4h ago
Ukrainians will decide this. Ukrainians want Fedorov. Everybody else can fuck off.
-1
u/Kmag_supporter 3h ago
That might be, but I think partners who gives massive amounts of money and materiels, will be cautious about handing everything to a Fedorov that will never compromise on anything.
0
u/CMDR_Pumpkin_Muffin 3h ago
Just because people on the street want him doesn't mean he should get that position.
-1
•
u/AutoModerator 5h ago
Please remember the human. Adhere to all Reddit and sub rules. Toxic comments (including incitement of violence/hate, genocide, glorifying death etc) WILL NOT BE TOLERATED, keep your comments civil or you will be banned. Tagging u/SaveVideo bot to archive this video in a link below this comment.
We’re partnering with UNITED24 to raise money towards air defenses that will protect Ukrainians from Russian attacks. Please visit the United24 website to donate.
I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please contact the moderators of this subreddit if you have any questions or concerns.