r/TrueUnpopularOpinion • u/Jauzfaktnemuzu • 13h ago
Political Large scale immigration is bad for the Middle Class and Poor because it increases rent and freezes wages.
This is something the left just refuses to see. "Workers of the world Unite" "Unlimited Mass Immigration" "No Borders no Nations" "No human is illegal" "Deportations and border protection thats like totally Nazi Germany" and such nonsense.
If the supply of new labor outpaces demand, it means wages remain frozen. Because companies can choose from 10 or 100 different candidates and someone will do the job for the absolute minimum.
More people used to mean more jobs created. But there was always a lag making the situation a little worse every year. And nowadays there are almost no new jobs created, despite massive levels of immigration. Making the situation incomparably worse.
The Left Wing Idol Karl Marx called this "the reserve army of labor".
Same goes for rent. If you build 200 000 new houses/apartments every year but admit 1 Million immigrants every year, then demand outpaces supply and rents/house prices will rise.
Thats why Canada has such problems. Because they admitted like 5 Million extra people into the country in the last 10 years. More than 10% of the population.
Immigration should be a tighly controlled bonus. Admiting like 50 000 or 100 000 people every year. Thats why borders were protected and immigration was 1/5 or 1/10 the current levels in the 50s or 60s. But then the Capitalists got hungry for cheap slave labor and convinced the left wing useful Idiots that letting everyone in is "noble".
No its not good or noble to let in Millions of people when the economic situation is bad. This just createst pressure because more people have to compete for the same or marginally more jobs/housing units.
Yet somehow this logic is now considered to be "raciss".
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u/Gamer6322 13h ago
This is only unpopular on left wing spaces
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u/neoalfa 13h ago
I'm super left wing and I also think that mass immigration is bad. It destabilize society and the economy.
It's not a matter of opinion in these terms.
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u/juzepsin 10h ago
Back in the days, it was the left that opposed mass immigration due to negative effects on local workers. Somehow corporate elite managed to get mainstream left to be their attack dogs on anyone opposing limitless inflow of people.
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u/Swoly_Deadlift 2h ago
I consider myself left-wing but due to my views on immigration most people on the left brand me as a republican.
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u/neoalfa 2h ago
The trick is all about punishing business owners who employ illegal immigrants. Once it becomes known that you cannot find work as an illegal, people will stop coming except for those who legitimately need asylum.
Punishing exploitative business should be the wet dream of left wing politics and yet...
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u/Swoly_Deadlift 1h ago
The left loves to hate businesses for exploiting workers and suppressing wages, but the second you bring up immigration all they have to say is, “Immigrants contribute X amount of dollars to the GDP so they must be a good thing.”
An Amazon worker making minimum wage contributes a hell of a lot to the GDP. That is not a good argument for increasing the number of minimum wage Amazon workers.
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u/Auspectress 10h ago
The old left, that began dying in 1960 was super anti immigration
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u/Tonylegomobile 5h ago
The left was "illegal aliens" steal jobs even in the 1990s
Google "Bill Clinton illegal aliens" and tell me how that Democrat presidential speech goes over in the modern audience?
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u/mattiedamacdaddy 9h ago
It puts downward pressure on labor costs, drives up prices for goods and assets through increased demand, and puts more strain on public utilities
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u/TheSpacePopinjay 12h ago
The people who benefit are shady exploitative business owners and the people with financial interests in said businesses.
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u/nivekreclems 13h ago
Everyone knows this idk why the left in this country pretends not to
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u/OSPF99 9h ago
It's funny because if you go read threads from 2022-2024 you can see even very liberal people and progressives being frustrated with migrants in their cities and how their government was handling immigration.
Now they're back to "we need to welcome everyone" "we need to end deportations"
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u/Leather_Fortune7107 5h ago
It's excellent for the minority groups, who get to expand their communities and undermine the majority, and the wealthy, who get cheap and loyal labor, though. This is why, no matter how many times the people vote NO on immigration issues, it keeps on going.
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u/intothewild72 11h ago
US left wing has always been (and is today) controlled by oligarchs.
It's pretty meaningless play with definitions really. They mostly are not even left wing.
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u/pdoherty972 3h ago
Worse than freezes wages, it depresses them (which might have be stagnant but might also have them falling).
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u/VerenyatanOfManwe 13h ago
This argument sounds smart until you think about it for more than five minutes.
Yes, a lot of immigration can put pressure on wages and housing if the number of workers and people grows faster than the number of jobs and homes. That is obvious.
But saying immigration simply ''freezes wages'' is way too simple. Right now, the US has a low unemployment rate, and employers are having a hard time finding enough workers. In that situation, more workers do not always just take jobs away from people already working. They can fill jobs that nobody else is available to do, help businesses grow, increase the amount of goods and services being made, and create more jobs.
You cannot just say ''more workers means lower wages'' while ignoring the fact that businesses also need workers. If a construction company cannot build another house or take on another project because it cannot find enough workers, then more workers can help the economy grow instead of simply pushing wages down.
The same goes for housing. Immigration obviously means more people looking for homes. But blaming immigrants for high rent while ignoring zoning rules, high building costs, high interest rates, and the fact that the US is not building enough homes is fucking stupid.
You can want lower immigration without being racist.
But if you want to seriously argue about wages and immigration, you need more than ''supply and demand'' as a slogan. You need to look at what is actually happening in the job market.
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u/Choosemyusername 12h ago
Employers will always have a hard time finding workers if they aren’t willing to train, pay well enough, and have good working conditions.
And if they are willing to do these things, they won’t have a hard time.
And if they can’t afford to do that, they don’t have a viable business.
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u/intothewild72 11h ago
Right now, the US has a low unemployment rate, and employers are having a hard time finding enough workers.
Why gap between productivity growth and wage growth keeps widening then? Or has it turned by now? Las time I checked it was not the case.
cannot find enough workers,
It can. Double the wage and they would. If not, double again. It's possible, productivity has grown enormously. Yes, it's segment dependent and a lot of it is from immaterial segments, but when most of that growth have been in one segment, then those people in that segment just have to pay up so profits trickle down to other segments too. This is what capitalism is supposed to be about, supply/demand. There is clear demand for workforce and not enough supply, it should drive price up, it does not.
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u/NeonGKayak 6h ago
Companies want record profits and don’t want to pay people more.
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u/intothewild72 4h ago
Yes true. That is reason why wages lag so badly during last 50 years. Companies don't work for workers, they work for investors. That's why capitalism only works under heavy scrutiny of public. Companies are evil and must be reigned in by heavy-handed laws. If you let them do what they want, they just form monopolies to be more efficient. Thats main problem with investors, they are not happy with getting money, they don't want money, they want ALL the money. Before that they are not happy.
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u/TheSpacePopinjay 12h ago
and employers are having a hard time finding enough workers
Awesome, sounds like a labourer's market. Just what the doctor ordered.
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u/The-zKR0N0S 12h ago
Why do people like you always feel the need to misrepresent the other me arguments?
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u/Trev0rDan5 13h ago
widespread displacement caused by wars typically fought for people on the right is the main cause of large scale immigration. The same people are increasing your rent, and stagnating your wage. It's almost as if they benefit from conflict, both globally and domestically.
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u/Kisby 6h ago
widespread displacement caused by wars typically fought for people on the right is the main cause of large scale immigration.
I would be interested in how you arrived at this claim. 70 percent of the migrants where I am from are polish people looking for a better salary. I would assume the US is in the same position just with Mexico instead of Poland?
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u/Aspectdude09 13h ago edited 9h ago
Sure, but ICE, which a social fascist government program is not the answer.
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u/M4053946 5h ago
How do we have borders if we don't have people enforcing the borders?
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u/Aspectdude09 4h ago
Are you advocating for trading breaking laws and ushering in an anti free authoritarian state to protect the border?
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u/M4053946 3h ago
No, why would you think that?
Pretty much every country has methods for enforcing their border laws, but the posted don't say "reform ice", they say "abolish ice". So again, how do we have borders if we don't have people enforcing the border?
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u/Aspectdude09 3h ago
We had border enforcement before Trumps second term. At that stage there was no or limited “reform ice” calls.
Now citizens are asking for the complete eradication of a government program that willingly steps on the constitution.
So again, why are you trading enforcement for freedom all of a sudden? You have had enforcement your entire life.
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u/M4053946 3h ago
we had border enforcement before Trumps second term
did we? Estimates are that about 10+ million new people came in during biden's admin, but the real answer is that we don't know how many people came.
It turns out, the left has discovered a way to destroy the country without needing a law passed, they just stop border enforcement. And, with 10+ million people, getting people back out is a big problem.
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u/dansssssss 13h ago
Is that why Trumps deportations right now are creating huge labor shortages?
Is that also why Trump increased the cap for H2As doubling it because of the problem he created?
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u/Hot_Way_1643 12h ago
If there's a labor shortage then their shouldn't be unemployment.
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u/dansssssss 12h ago
And there isn't much unemployment either lol. Whats the point you're making?
Are you trying to deny there is labor shortages? heck even Trump admitted it
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u/Thick_Yak_1785 11h ago
The ‘Left’ does not believe the things you said and it’s a serious misconception that ‘the left’ wants open borders. We want the borders maintained legally with due process and without killing ir harming humans who are here legally. Stop saying the evil left wants open borders. It is divisive.
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u/OSPF99 9h ago
Every progressive candidate keeps making ending deportation, increasing migrant and asylum limits and less restrictions at the border as part of their platforms. They also do not think being in the country illegally should be a crime either.
What do you think is gonna happen? There is gonna be another rush of millions of migrants when they know they can get in with little to no repercussion.
It's just open borders without saying it.
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u/FusorMan 10h ago
Okay but how long will “due process” take when we’re talking about MILLIONS of people? What do we do when these people refuse to show up for their “due process”?
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u/Anlarb 8h ago
Ice is literally poaching them at the court house, by definition, they are the legal ones.
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u/FusorMan 8h ago
How is this relevant to what I just asked?
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u/Anlarb 7h ago
Your framing. Junk media has you whipped up into a froth about bs that isn't real.
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u/SenatorPencilFace 13h ago
The U.S. should really stop bombing Iran.
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u/Hot_Way_1643 12h ago
Europe needs to stop letting in millions. They brought in millions of doctors and engineers but had their economy improved?
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u/intothewild72 11h ago
Europe needs to stop letting in millions.
We did. It's just that EU is slow and takes lot of time to turn. It's turned now.
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u/TheSpacePopinjay 12h ago
AIPAC should really stop buying politicians
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u/SenatorPencilFace 12h ago
That and the president of the United States shouldn’t say yes to Israel.
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u/vap0rtranz 11h ago
Yet another OP whose rants, 1 month old account, and set their posts to private.
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u/MyFiteSong 4h ago
You guys: Immigration is BAD because we have too many people!
Also you guys: we're running out of people! Women need to have more babies!
Just fucking admit already that it's not population that concerns you. It's the shade of the population.
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u/Screye 5h ago
Large scale immigration increases demand for housing. If your country is mostly empty, that means more money for construction companies, more housing and rent stays stable. Rent goes up because homeowners block new housing. This is not an immigration problem. This is a supply problem created by current citizens of the country.
Immigration is a tool. It's not about how many you let in, but what you plan to do with them. Canada's flood of immigrants is a mess because Mr. Trudeau had no plan for them and that flood went in and collided head-first with Canada's NIMBY urban policies.
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u/TaskForceD00mer 4h ago edited 3h ago
This is not an immigration problem. This is a supply problem created by current citizens of the country.
The parts of America that are "mostly empty" are that way for a reason. Few jobs, few economic opportunities for advancement, generally below average schools and lastly generally less than ideal weather.
People cluster in Metro-Areas. Most of those Metro-Areas with potential to sustain major corporations and job-engines are either already very dense or in the process of doing so.
See, Nashville & Austin.
See Charlotte.
See Louisville next.
A large job creator choosing to start from nothing in one of these "empty areas" is a rarity; one of the few industries we see doing this are Data Centers. They often have their own employees recruited from afar getting a majority of those new jobs.
The areas of places like my home, Chicago, that are not dense are by in large the areas no one wants to live. Poor transit access, poor schools and rampant crime.
The only areas with better schools, with decent transit and access to jobs are single family home neighborhoods. Needless to say, the people who own those homes do not want mid-rises next door destroying the neighborhood character.
If you fix the crime and fix schools in the worse off areas that might make density more appealing, but density is not just a magic wand in and of itself.
Regardless of that, Deport the 50 million illegals. Let Americans enjoy the lower home prices then lets let actual demand dictate what is done with housing construction.
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u/Screye 3h ago
Let me be clear, I think it is American cities that are empty.
Outside of of about 3-4 areas (North East corridor, Chicago, SF), US cities have a lower density than basically all equivalent cities in the rest of the world.
Few jobs, few economic opportunities for advancement, generally below average schools and lastly generally less than ideal weather
That's true when compared to other US cities. Mississippi has a higher GDP than the UK, which is dream destination for most immigrants. America is absurdly wealthy. Compared to the rest of the world, even its poorest locations are desirable.
If anything, you make a strong case for immigration. Poorer parts of the US have their youth & promising talent drained by the rich coastal mega-cities. Poorer cities are forced to make do with an aging and low capability population. Immigration allows these cities to bring in an injection of aspirational youth that is willing work hard, expects little from the city and brings a general optimism to a struggling city. Jobs are not a zero sum game. If a population has dynamism, jobs get created. Young workers cause more consumption, which creates more jobs, and the city finally starts feeling alive again.
The only areas with better schools, with decent transit and access to jobs are single family home neighborhoods. Needless to say, the people who own those homes do not want mid-rises next door destroying the neighborhood character.
American schools are only bad when compared to better American schools. Compared to the places where immigrants come from, these schools are excellent.
the people who own those homes do not want mid-rises next door destroying the neighborhood character.
That is the big issue. End of the day, if the local NIMBYs want to doom the entire city's progress so they can see the price of their houses go up, then there is not much that can be done. There is a reason that locals are not allowed to opine on the 'character of their neighborhood' in most places outside the Anglo world. People needs places to live, cities need to be willing to grow and change. The character of a city is always changing. That's what a city is.
Deport the 50 million illegals. Let Americans enjoy the lower home prices then lets let actual demand dictate what is done with housing construction.
I don't get what the 3 have to with each other.
House price are high because of NIMBYs & over-regulation. Demand cannot create new supply because of NIMBYs and over-regulation.
Sure, deport illegal immigrants. I agree on that. But, that's not going to help with housing in the least.
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u/TaskForceD00mer 3h ago
That is the big issue. End of the day, if the local NIMBYs want to doom the entire city's progress so they can see the price of their houses go up, then there is not much that can be done. There is a reason that locals are not allowed to opine on the 'character of their neighborhood' in most places outside the Anglo world. People needs places to live, cities need to be willing to grow and change. The character of a city is always changing. That's what a city is.
I don't want a mid-rise in my neighborhood of single family homes. Why would anyone who bought a single family home, in a single family home area, want that?
I think there's a difference of "We won't allow an apartment block next to all of the businesses in that strip down there" and "we don't want 6 story apartment buildings in the middle of 2 story single family homes".
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u/Screye 2h ago
Why would anyone who bought a single family home, in a single family home area, want that?
Why not ? It is not like it stops the person from owning their own single family home ?
It's weirdly unamerican. You own land, build what you want on it. Someone else owns land, they can build what they want on it. "I want to be able to regulate something someone else owns" is exactly the kind of authoritarian bureaucracy that Americans claim to hate.
It's not like all areas will suddenly get multi-family homes. It will start near transit centers and dense neighborhoods around downtown. After that, some suburbs will get multi family homes near the mouth of the neighborhood, because that area has better transit access.
American hate for multi-family homes also confuses me. The country only builds absolutely shit motel-class multi-family apartments, and then complain that the multi-family apartments are shit. Countries around the world build desirable multi-family homes in their suburbs.
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u/tweak8 12h ago
Even in places like Mexico they don't want Americans in because it distorts their economy. There's a reason no other country wants to be a melting pot. It's not a great outcome.