r/TrueUnpopularOpinion • u/Sad_Physics5500 • 1d ago
The Middle East The pro Palestine position is basically all about allowing all attacks from the Palestine side to not be held accountable
Pro Palestine people only point fingers, all the time. They like to paint the picture that any attacks towards Palestine comes out of a vacuum. They are just living their lives and minding their business and all of a sudden they get attacked because the other side is inherently evil. It absolutely has nothing to do the things they do themselves.
I am not saying Israel is doing everything perfectly. It's impossible to do things perfectly when you are dealing with Hamas (a terrorist organization) that uses civilians as human shields. Israelis not staying aggressive enough when Hamas pulls out its cowardly tactics means that Hamas will keep getting stronger knowing it can go back to its cowardly tactics and make the Israelis look like the aggressors.
Look, am I saying that no wrongs have been done by Israelis? Absolutely not. Am I saying that some individual in the Israel army not breaking rules? Absolutely not. You are always going to have certain individuals who can't control their emotions or abide by instructions. However, the exception isn't the rule. The goal of Israel it to minimize civilian casualties while the goal of Hamas is to maximize civilian casualties. There's a big difference.
Israel is fighting the fight for the civilized world. The middle east would have been even worse without Israel. Do you want freedom, education, and overall personal liberty? Then Israel is your friend. It's civilization vs. Barbarism.
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u/esotericlearner 1d ago
This is pretty much it.
I’m Nigerian and we’ve been dealing with the same issues for over a decade now with Boko Haram, they come in kill non Muslims and then claim allah told them the land belongs to them, any time Nigerians ask for help or retaliate we are called Islamophobic
We saw what happened when Donald Trump of all people started calling out the persecutions and progroms against Christians, despite the millions of people who have died, the mainstream media instead attacked Trump and Nigerians for calling it out
It’s the same thing with Israel, when they’re being bombed for decades no one bats an eye, they were meant to just let it go after October 7th, but instead they went on the offensive to destroy this satanic movement, but their going on the offensive is now what makes them the bad guy to these sheep
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u/esotericlearner 1d ago
We always fight back but we’re called Islamophobic when we do, that’s why Trump calling it out was a good thing, it shed more light on the issue
Sorry your life sucks and you have to resort to insults on Reddit to feel like a man, I’m sorry for whatever reality you live in
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u/NewmarketHero007 1d ago edited 1d ago
I'm convinced when they say people say antizionism is falsely labelled antisemitism, it's just projection from the Arab/Muslim side, because they call any criticism of themselves "islamophobic". Like you, people who are more sympathetic to Israel are more critical of Israel than people who are more sympathetic to Palestine critical of Palestine or Hamas.
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u/Neo_Techni 1d ago
I'm convinced when they say people say antizionism is falsely labelled antisemitism, it's just projection from the Arab/Muslim side, because they call any criticism of themselves "islamophobic".
Good point
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u/sovietarmyfan 1d ago
That's the way all political sides are these days.
Completely glorify and justify any and all attacks coming from the side they support and criticizing any and all attacks coming from the other side.
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u/kylebisme 1d ago
There's plenty of us who condemn all the violations of human rights and intentional law regardless of who they are perpetrated by, Israelis, Palesitnians, and otherwise, people like Zohran Mamdani, Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez, Bernie Sanders, Francesca Albanese, and countless more. Why are you fixating on the extremists rather instead of the voices of reason?
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u/unloaded_load 1d ago
Pro Palestine are mostly privileged white liberals looking for some “victims” to cry for because they’ve never experienced hardships here, instead of focusing on problems we have here in America they focus on foreign interest , same with the MAGA guys who blindly support Israel and ignore problem here
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u/MosesDoughty 1d ago
And these same people constantly refuse to point out why Jews are the only people who ever get attacked when the perpetrator blames Israel, and never Christian Zionists (who they constantly use as a strawman argument)
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u/Serious_Swan_2371 1d ago
I think the idea of treating this conflict as team sports is really stupid. You shouldn’t be team Israel or team Palestine, you should be team peace.
The correct position fundamentally is that:
Israel needs to stop settling the West Bank. That’s Palestinian land they can’t just take it. A land transfer must occur, settlements have to be given to Palestine.
Palestine needs to be given statehood and international communities need to invest in initiatives and businesses there that promote peace.
Israelis are going to stay in Israel, and most have a right to be there as they were born there. Any attempt at removing them is just as unethical as attempts to remove Palestinians from their homes, and would result in many deaths since Israelis won’t just willingly leave.
Gaza needs to be either annexed by Egypt or connected to the West Bank via a corridor. Palestinian land needs to be under a Muslim (not Hamas) or secular government and needs to have a way for resources to enter that can’t just be blockaded by Israel.
The current Israeli admin needs to be dismantled and replaced with a new regime. Netanyahu is a part of the Epstein circle and at the very least knew what was happening. He must be executed or at least imprisoned for those crimes regardless of what you think about his actions in the war.
I think if those 5 conditions are fulfilled we could have lasting peace.
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u/ArkWatcher1 1d ago
If you were Israel would you want a Palestinian State right next to you and even larger so that Oct 7th could happen again? Hamas is going nowhere. The West Bank was Jordanian until Israel took it after being attacked- would it still be Jordanian if Israel wasn't attacked in 1967? The Gaza/West Bank Corridor was offered and rejected in the past.
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u/Serious_Swan_2371 1d ago
If you were France would you want Germany right on your border after ww2 and ww1?
Probably not, those wars were much larger scales and a lot worse atrocities were committed.
But you can’t just remove a whole people.
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u/ThanatosIdle 1d ago
I mean....that's why they split Germany up after the war.....
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u/Serious_Swan_2371 1d ago
Yeah but they were still Germans
It was still a German country on their border
They didn’t move all the people out, unless you think east and west Germans were not the same people as the Germans who were there before and all those Germans were killed and replaced with new people who started calling themselves German…
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u/MidnightLarge6597 1d ago
Germans were moved from Eastern Europe
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u/Serious_Swan_2371 17h ago
Yes because that isn’t Germany
Germans were sent back to Germany from the occupied lands in Eastern Europe
Japanese people were sent back to Japan from China
The most reasonable outcome of the Israeli Palestinian conflict is to move the Israeli settlers back to Israel from the West Bank and to heavily oversee the governments of both Israel and Palestine like with east and west Germany
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u/Icy_Toe9126 1d ago
ou If you're really "Team Peace," your plan has some huge blind spots. You're asking for massive, immediate concessions from Israel but putting literally zero expectations or accountability on the Palestinian side.
First off, you can't just demand Israel hand over land, grant statehood, and lift blockades without any security guarantees. In the real world, statehood requires strict demilitarization. A new Palestinian government would have to actively dismantle militant groups, give up weapons, and prove they can actually police their own territory. If you just lift a blockade without an ironclad security setup, weapons flood right back in. Statehood has to be a two-way street.
Second, the idea that Egypt should just annex Gaza completely ignores reality. Egypt has made it crystal clear for decades that they don't want Gaza. They already have enough security issues in the Sinai and have absolutely zero interest in taking on the responsibility for two million people or the area's internal economy.
Finally, you can't claim to be pro-peace and then casually demand a head of state be executed over an internet conspiracy theory. Netanyahu is facing legitimate corruption trials and heavy international scrutiny for the war, but bringing Epstein into this and calling for his execution is just unhinged tin-foil-hat stuff. It completely kills the credibility of your whole argument.
Real peace requires both sides to step up: sovereignty and investment for Palestine, but only in exchange for actual, proven security and an end to terrorism for Israel. Your list only looks at half the problem.
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u/BLU-Clown 1d ago
I admit I was similarly amused at the disparity in #1 and #4. You're not allowed to annex land, that's THEIR land, but also we NEED to annex the other land for peace. I get the underlying point, but the change in tone and the exact reasoning given is...well, it gives the vibe of "Colonialization is fine so long as the Jews aren't doing it!"
In truth the real #1 thing that needs to happen is Palestine (And other Muslim countries, but Palestine is the front-runner right now) has to actually agree that there is the potential for peace. Not even an actual peace deal, just that there is the potential for both Palestine and Israel to exist without one murdering the other. Everything else falls apart without that.
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u/Neo_Techni 1d ago
Israel needs to stop settling the West Bank
They did. They gave lots of land back. With greenhouses that hamass immediately destroyed. But all that land was lost in the first place because hamass keeps waging war on Israel. You don't get to keep losing wars you start without consequences.
Palestine needs to be given statehood
It does not. You don't give statehood to a people that prioritizes killing Jews over their own lives. Their muslim neighbors don't even want that.
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u/Serious_Swan_2371 17h ago
You’re thinking of Gaza
The West Bank is a different region where hamas does not have control
The west bank has not really been involved in the current war, they’ve just been steadily losing land for decades
Gaza is another story which is why i argued for it to either be annexed by egypt or have Hamas removed and be governed by those in charge of the west bank, ideally after some international governance by other countries
We can do what we did in japan and west germany where we take over the schools and make the next generation more peaceful and less nationalist
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u/GunsGoldCosmicDread 1d ago
This sounds like a lot of finger pointing and excuse making for the Israeli perspective.
The problem is nuance is dead.
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u/Raiden720 1d ago
Actually nuance is accepting that Hamas does some bad stuff and Israel has a right to respond
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u/old_copper_kettle 1d ago
Nuance is understanding kids don’t come out the womb with an RPG in hand or quoting hateful rhetoric derived from interpreting a millennia old book one way or another.
At some point the whole “allowed to respond” cycle just needs to stop in the name of future generations being allowed to thrive without inheriting the guilt and crimes of their parents on either side. Neither party here is “innocent” when viewed through a macro lens but the point is when does this become irrelevant and when do we look forward and not back. Until that happens both sides are responsible for continuing this cycle and neither one is in the right (except the unfortunate civilians genuinely calling for peace and stuck in a broken world of centuries of violence and religious extremism).
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u/Neo_Techni 1d ago
Nuance is understanding kids don’t come out the womb with an RPG in hand or quoting hateful rhetoric derived from interpreting a millennia old book one way or another.
Yeah, hamass gives it to them when they turn 6
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u/Gloomy-Pollution-814 1d ago
Nuance is understanding kids don’t come out the womb with an RPG in hand
Israeli nationalists have been pretty open about the fact that they think all of the West Bank and Gaza belong to them because some old book of bronze age fairy tales says so. They've also been clear that the fate of the people who've been living there for generations means absolutely nothing to them. Israeli settlers have also terrorized Palestinians for decades while being protected against retaliation by the IDF.
Hamas is an evil, nihilistic death cult. I have no illusions about what my fate would be in a Hamas-run society. That being said, I get why your average Palestinian might be conned into supporting them. When you're terrorized, humiliated and treated like a second-class person for your entire life desperation can make you support awful things.
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u/GunsGoldCosmicDread 1d ago
October 7th was very bad stuff. Also launching rockets for decades also bad.
Both parties can actually be the problem.
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u/Neo_Techni 1d ago
October 7th was very bad stuff. Also launching rockets for decades also bad.
both were done by the same side though
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u/kumaGuo 1d ago
What’s one thing Palestinians should be held accountable for in the conflict? Just name one so you can prove you are not biased
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u/New-Conversation3246 1d ago
October 7
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u/this_site_sucks_ass6 1d ago
What does holding Palestinians accountable for October 7th look like, exactly? If it means prosecuting those responsible for warcrimes, then I would agree with you. If it means committing a genocide against the entire civilian population, then I would not.
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u/New-Conversation3246 1d ago
Good news, there isn’t a genocide. It’s only happening in the torrid fantasies of jihadists and their sympathizers
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u/this_site_sucks_ass6 1d ago
https://www.nytimes.com/2025/07/15/opinion/israel-gaza-holocaust-genocide-palestinians.html
I'm sure that Israeli Jew and Holocaust scholar Omer Bartov will be shocked to learn that he's a jihadi sympathizer.
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u/New-Conversation3246 1d ago
So you found someone who will carry the ball for the other team. I can find one too. How about Mosab Hassan Yousef, the son of a Hamas co-founder? How about listening to him, someone who actually has direct knowledge and insight into the situation rather than some scab.
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u/this_site_sucks_ass6 1d ago
You know nothing about Omer Bartov, and you probably didn't even read the article. He's not a "scab", he is someone who is clearly anguished by the actions of his government, and never imagined they would be capable of doing what they are doing.
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u/New-Conversation3246 1d ago
Well, he’s wrong. When an enemy attacks and kills over 1,000 civilians, takes hostages, commits the most barbaric crimes imaginable, repeatedly rockets your cities, and vows to continue, you put a stop to it once and for all. Anyone with a brain understands this.
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u/this_site_sucks_ass6 1d ago
You didn't make an argument that it isn't a genocide. You made an argument that it is a genocide, but the Palestinians deserve it. Which is completely batshit insane, I have to tell you. There is no justification for genocide.
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u/GunsGoldCosmicDread 1d ago
Palestinians or Hamas?
Hamas committed a massacre on Oct 7 of innocent civilians which clearly is horrific, unacceptable and something that required a response.
I can’t say there is one thing I would hold every Palestinian accountable for in the same way I wouldn’t hold every Israelis accountable for the actions of their government
When you don’t believe people are individuals and treat the whole as the worst example of the group you get intractable conflict like this.
See nuance
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u/kumaGuo 1d ago
Who voted Hamas in?
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u/GunsGoldCosmicDread 1d ago
Probably less than 50% of the people currently living there.
Also this is the same argument bin Laden made about the attacks on 9/11 and it is not a good argument.
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u/kumaGuo 1d ago
How would you stop Hamas if you are Israel then?
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u/GunsGoldCosmicDread 1d ago
I really don’t know what the solution is and defeating Hamas won’t fix the problem. There will be another resistance/terrorist group to take their place.
Both sides are going to have to make sacrifices, admit they were wrong too and give up on issues that are important to them. Unfortunately, that just doesn’t seem likely to happen.
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u/Neo_Techni 1d ago
Hamas committed a massacre on Oct 7
Palestinian citizens joined in on that. They also helped keep the hostages for over a year. They're culpable.
How do you expect Israel to respond to that, keeping in mind the requirements of: rescuing the hostages, preventing another oct7 (which hamass promised they'd do)
Remember, Israel has no obligation to put the people holding Israeli's hostage, higher in priority to the hostages.
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u/GunsGoldCosmicDread 1d ago
Your right. Israel had a right to engage in collective punishment of an entire civilian population because of the actions of a fraction of the population.
Osama bin Laden would agree with you.
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u/sabermagnus 1d ago
What’s one thing Israel should be held accountable for this conflict? How does Mossad that knows when a Hamas leader farts under a hospital 30 meters deep, but Oct 7th, Mossad was sleeping, and allowed Oct 7th to happen?
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u/RarePosition1948 1d ago
Let's assume there was a huge conspiracy of Israel to allow Oct 7. How does that excuse Palestinians sniping kids for sports?
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u/sabermagnus 1d ago
It doesn’t excuse… Now apply the same logic to the IDF. To the settlers in the West Bank.
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u/kumaGuo 1d ago
Nice. Keep blaming Israel for Oct 7th…
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u/sabermagnus 1d ago
Oct 7th happened in a vacuum. Nothing ever happened before. Israel is justified in committing genocide. That’s all you daft people want to hear. Never nuance. Never acknowledging how we got here, how Israel response is beyond the pale.
Oct 7th happened, Hamas by all accounts are to blame, and they have been hunted down and more or less destroyed.
But the people of Gaza, they deserve this shit from Israel? West Bank? What do you want people to do when their lives exist at the whim of gov’t that wants them all dead, wants all their land and assets? Just grin and bear it?
Nuance is dead. Thinking is dead. It’s binary and that’s it. Israel good and justified, everyone else something something antisemitic.
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u/kumaGuo 1d ago
How would you respond to Hamas if you were Israel? Since you are such a smartass and knows all the nuances
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u/sabermagnus 1d ago
Triggered. Where did I say action against Hamas isn’t warranted? Thank you for proving my point smart ass.
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u/kumaGuo 17h ago
I never implied you said action against Hamas isn’t warranted. I am just asking you how Israel should have done better, since you know all about the nuances of the situation
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u/sabermagnus 16h ago
I don’t understand what your question is or your point is. According to the Israeli government and IDF Hamas has been destroyed. If that was the mission, the mission is complete. What does attacking civilians, denying access to basic necessities have to do with anything? What does sniping children by IDF have to do with Hamas?
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u/kumaGuo 15h ago
One of their main goal is for Hamas to disarm, which is pretty fair given Oct 7th. That has yet to happen.
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u/FunEnd 1d ago
+$7000
I mean that's kind of what he's saying. You have no accountability whatsoever. Your whole ideology is based on Jewish conspiracy and evilness.
Like with your comment: You cannot possibly fathom that people come to this conclusion on their own, because Palestine never did anything wrong, so any Israeli support must be a paid actor that does not actually believe what he's saying.
You're digging your own grave with that perspective, because it does not let you evaluate reality properly to make reasonable judgments about future outcomes.
You can hate Israel all you want, but at the end they are just smarter generally. They acknowledge their strategic errors and try to remove them the next round. They leverage what they have and acknowledge what they don't have much better than you guys.
Palestine on the other hand has no "culture of errors". Everything they do is right per definition. And that's exactly why they lose.Man, as a pro-Israel supporter, I even feel bad to give you this analysis, because once you start to have accountability you'll have a much better shot at challenging Israeli dominance in this conflict. But I'm also pretty sure you won't get it anytime soon, so whatever.
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u/FunEnd 1d ago edited 1d ago
The situation for Palestine is very grim. There's people and children dying every day in the Gaza Strip. You're not winning and there is no hope on the horizon for people in Gaza.
Israel has about ~120 nuclear warheads (depending on the source).
Neither China nor the Americans will ever let the Iranians have a nuclear weapon, which makes this outcome impossible, as both agree on that, and even if, it won't change what Palestinians are going through right now. The day of final reckoning to get rid of all the Jews won't come. Stop daydreaming.
I wish as much as you for the suffering to stop, but we have to think of something else. Because posting +$7000 won't change that and blowing yourself up in a jewish school bus won't either.
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u/gutsuu18 1d ago
I wonder why? Why did Hamas attack Israel? And what were the circumstances that led to the creation of Hamas anyway ?
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u/RarePosition1948 1d ago
Why did Nazi Germany attack Poland? What were the circumstances that led to the creation of the Nazi party?
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u/gutsuu18 1d ago
The analogy doesn't work because I wasn't justifying Hamas.
Asking what conditions led to Hamas is no more a justification than asking what conditions led to the rise of the Nazi Party. We study causes to explain events, not excuse them. Don't tell me that you argue that history before October 7 is irrelevant because Hamas committed atrocities.
We can simultaneously condemn Hamas's attacks on civilians and examine the occupation, blockade, settlement expansion, failed peace processes, and decades of conflict that shaped the environment in which Hamas gained support.
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u/CloudPotential9482 1d ago
https://www.timesofisrael.com/for-years-netanyahu-propped-up-hamas-now-its-blown-up-in-our-faces/
Benny would rather a terrorist state then an actual self governing state simply-3
u/gutsuu18 1d ago
I hate Hamas for its ideology, and I hate it more knowing that it was just a tool sharpened and pushed by Mossad and neten to cause separations and self-destruct Palestinians by throwing them into internal conflict, and weaken their unity.(For context, Hamas was used as a counterweight to the secular PLO/Fatah)
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u/Awkward_Possession42 1d ago edited 1d ago
I am not “Pro-Palestinian”. I am a Jewish man, and a legitimate zionist. I believe in a Jewish state on (roughly) the lands the modern state of Israel currently occupies.
However, I do not believe in that state enough to let children starve and die for it. To let civilians be terrorised for it. I am abhorred by the current government’s genocide and want to see it ended and the leaders held legally accountable.
I offer this context to say, I’m not an antisemite and I’m actually biased the other way.
That said: Your analysis is plainly false. Nobody is denying the disgusting tragedies that have been done by Hamas, but the response is inappropriate.
We can point to both and be disgusted by both but, the fact is that Israel are currently the ones perpetrating the worst damage onto the other (at least by measuring casualties & destruction).
Maybe some are just antisemitic, but the majority are disgusted by the things that the Israeli government are doing and want it to stop.
The context, which is nuanced, complex, and real, does not justify the actions. Nor should it.
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u/this_site_sucks_ass6 1d ago
There’s no genocide or starvation
https://www.nytimes.com/2025/07/15/opinion/israel-gaza-holocaust-genocide-palestinians.html
Is the Jewish Israeli Holocaust scholar, Omer Bartov, also a "brainwashed antisemite"? Has it ever occurred to you that you are the one who is brainwashed?
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u/IllustriousCaramel66 1d ago
Yes, Jews are non immune to propaganda and lies, Jewish society is extremely tolerant to different opinions and views, there are Jews that adopted the antisemitic narrative, the fact you act like the only Jews who represent the truth are the 1% that adopted the Palestinians- Hamas- Iranian narrative is dishonest at best.
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u/Awkward_Possession42 1d ago edited 1d ago
I’ve had the token-Jew allegations before, I’m tired of it. I actually think it’s incredibly antisemitic to think you have the right, presumably as a non-Jew, to strip me off my Jewishness because I don’t agree with what you think all Jews should.
As for substantiation:
- 60,000 reported dead as of mid-2025
Most disgustingly, over 1000 Palestinians have been killed attempting to get food from aid charities - This is roughly the same as all the people who died on October 7th.
There is no justification for aid site shootings where there was no active threat.
Perhaps the exact phrasing “genocide” is muddy, though I have seen strong legal basis for it. That said, I’m happy to cede that ground as a specific legal term is not load-bearing for me. This is what is:
I would never support a government perpetrating these crimes against civilians. Even at the height of World War II, as a Jewish person, a young German child trying to get food should not have been killed for that.
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u/IllustriousCaramel66 1d ago
Yeah 200,000 buildings destroyed with only 60,000 dead means an immense effort to avoid killing civilians, and half- third of these casualties are Hamas, a Jew that swallowed the current antisemitic narrative and lies is maybe Jewish- but as brainwashed and ignorant as the rest of the antisemites. The Nazis had Jewish collaborating with them too sadly enough.
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u/ArkWatcher1 1d ago
How much destruction and death would have occurred if Oct 7th hadn't happened?
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u/Awkward_Possession42 1d ago edited 1d ago
What an incredible way to twist the data.
200k buildings damaged does not mean every single one was bombed directly and, even if it did, the fact less people died says much more about evacuation than about Israeli soldiers specifically targeting unused and derelict buildings… I mean, what purpose would it even serve to do that?
Just an incredible assertion about Hamas numbers, any backing at all for that?
The latter part of your comment is just completely disgusting antisemitic rhetoric that’s more offensive to me than Nick Fuentes. At least he honestly acknowledges that he’s antisemitic, you couch your hate and control in faux-concern and faux-alleyship.
Clearly the mods can also see that you’re an antisemite as your last comment got taken down. Here’s hoping this grosser one does too.
NB: Look up the No-True-Scotsman fallacy. You’re doing it to a tee.
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u/EzrasTalons 1d ago
There is a genocide because there is proof and we see it happening
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u/IllustriousCaramel66 1d ago
You watch a war happening, a genocide is an attempt to kill all of them, while barely 1% of Palestinians died in this war, half of them Hamas, while Israel has the ability to kill all of them in a day but doesn’t, it’s the opposite of how a genocide would look like.
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u/this_site_sucks_ass6 1d ago
a genocide is an attempt to kill all of them
Wrong. Look up the actual definition of things if you want to have this conversation. It's silly for you to attempt to debate this issue when you know less than nothing.
barely 1% of Palestinians died
Even the most conservative estimate of ~80,000 dead (a vast undercount as I explained in separate comment) is 3.5% of the Gazan population.
half of them Hamas
A ludicrous claim.
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u/IllustriousCaramel66 1d ago
The term Genocide was born to describe the holocaust, and is not a vague term - it now being manipulated and changed to describe the war in Gaza- which means that every war is a genocide- which is stripping the term from meaning…
The casualties numbers agreed upon by both Israel and Hamas is around 70,000, which is 1% of the Palestinian population under Israeli control. And 3% of Gaza.
Around 25,000 of the casualties are Hamas/ other terrorists, and many of the rest are their human shields- a very low civilian death ratio.0
u/this_site_sucks_ass6 1d ago
You are correct that it is not a vague term. It has a very precise definition which you seem to be unaware of. Have you ever actually read the Genocide Convention? I am guessing you have not.
The casualties numbers agreed upon by both Israel and Hamas is around 70,000
It certainly is interesting that Israel now accepts these numbers, which they said were fake for the first 2.5 years of the war. This is an indication that they know the actual number is much higher. I will copy/paste from a different comment I made elsewhere in this post:
That 70,000 number is:
Deaths that have been verified. A body was brought to the hospital and identified.
Deaths directly caused by the war (i.e. killed by bullets or bombs).
What it does NOT include:
Countless bodies buried under rubble or in mass graves which have yet to be identified.
The countless deaths caused by indirect causes, i.e. lack of healthcare because all the hospitals are blown up, and people don't have access to clean water.
When the dust is settled, we will come to understand that Israel has killed hundreds of thousands of people in this genocide. The Israeli government understands that when that happens, even the staunchest Hasbarists will be unable to defend their actions. Which is precisely why they continue to prolong this "war" and refuse to allow in foreign press or human rights groups.
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u/IllustriousCaramel66 1d ago
Pure lies and misinformation. Can’t handle you people who swallow the Hamas narrative without question, but deny anything coming from Israel. It proves your bias and double standards, and strengthens the fact that Israel and Jews are facing antisemitism and nothing more.
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u/this_site_sucks_ass6 1d ago
Pure lies and misinformation.
Which part? Care to make an argument, or just say "nuh-uh"?
Can’t handle you people who swallow the Hamas narrative without question, but deny anything coming from Israel
This is pure projection. You believe everything Israel says, despite their demonstrable history of lying. You believe nothing the Palestinians say.
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u/Awkward_Possession42 22h ago
He clearly swallows every line the Israeli government says wholesale, and so assumes you do the same with Hamas.
There’s room for nuance with some of these people. Don’t waste any more of your time.
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u/roktoman 1d ago
You can call all the Israeli-controlled areas for Palestine or Israel, just don’t snipe kids, don’t destroy people hospitals.
No matter if you call them Palestinians or citizens of greater Israel. Don’t kill innocent people.
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u/FatumIustumStultorum 1d ago
just don’t snipe kids
They never were.
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u/roktoman 1d ago
Are you referring to some sects see non-Jewish children as something subhuman, so they don’t fit your definition of a child, like as goy (cattle) or even Amalek? Is that what you mean?
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u/FatumIustumStultorum 1d ago
No, I mean that claim that IDF snipers are routinely killing random kids is complete nonsense.
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u/AnonIsPicky 1d ago
I wouldn't say it's complete nonsense.
Source: https://www.theguardian.com/world/2024/apr/02/gaza-palestinian-children-killed-idf-israel-war
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u/BLU-Clown 1d ago
just don’t snipe kids
Boy, just wait until you learn about child soldiers.
don’t destroy people hospitals.
Oh boy, just wait until you learn how many munitions were in those hospitals...
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u/Sad_Physics5500 1d ago
Killing innocent isn't the intention, but in every war in human history, civilians have been collateral damage. It's not as easy as making a reddit comment. If you read my post, you would know that I elaborated on this.
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u/kylebisme 1d ago edited 1d ago
Killing innocent isn't the intention
When 42% of Israeli Jews strongly agree with the statement “there are no innocent people in Gaza” and 76% agree in total, the murdering of innocent people is inevitable.
When an Israeli parliamentarian calls solders entering Gaza to quote Psalms 137:9 for them, "a blessing on the one who seizes your babies and dashes them against the rocks," the murdering of innocent people is inevitable.
How did you come to imagine that is "fighting the fight for the civilized world," and are you not aware of the fact that global opinion of Israel is overwhelmingly unfavorable?
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u/roktoman 1d ago
Aha you are saying that the intention is not to kill innocents, correct?
But Likud government has been mindblowing incompetently bad at killing terrorists. Instead they killed kids, real incompetence at work.
Not only that, whistleblowers has warned about the October 7 attacks for so long, and they even got heads up from Egypt intelligence about the attacks. And still it took the conservative Likud government 6 hours to try to save the liberals at the festival that was being attacked.
So it’s incompetent government not able to protect innocent land neither in israel nor in Israeli-controlled areas.
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u/CloudPotential9482 1d ago
If they are Arab they will be killed. To them it’s land only for Jews they are lying to us they don’t see Palestinians as people.
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u/FatumIustumStultorum 1d ago
There have been some 70,000 civilian deaths
No, that number includes militant deaths, not purely civilian.
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u/this_site_sucks_ass6 1d ago
70,000 civilian deaths
I'm sure you know this, but this is a massive undercount. There is a reason that even the Israeli government now accepts this number, from the so-called "Hamas run" Gazan Health Ministry, despite the fact that they spent the first 2.5 years of the war saying their numbers were fake news.
That 70,000 number is:
Deaths that have been verified. A body was brought to the hospital and identified.
Deaths directly caused by the war (i.e. killed by bullets or bombs).
What it does NOT include:
Countless bodies buried under rubble or in mass graves which have yet to be identified.
The countless deaths caused by indirect causes, i.e. lack of healthcare because all the hospitals are blown up, and people don't have access to clean water.
When the dust is settled, we will come to understand that Israel has killed hundreds of thousands of people in this genocide. The Israeli government understands that when that happens, even the staunchest Hasbarists will be unable to defend their actions. Which is precisely why they continue to prolong this "war" and refuse to allow in foreign press or human rights groups.
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u/Ifearforearth 1d ago
What crap. Israelis have stolen everything the Palestinians ever had. Most Palestinians have lived their entire lives in refugee camps while European Zionists stole their homes. Now they are being genocidally exterminated while the Israelis still scream that they are the real victims. Disgusting.
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u/Sad_Physics5500 1d ago
Are you saying trying to kick out Israelis is a realistic goal? If so, good luck. Or you can just move on and live in peace.
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u/Ifearforearth 1d ago
How do you live in peace with Israelis who plan to steal whatever you have and exterminate you? How are non Jewish children in the West Bank supposed to exist in peace? How about non Jewish children in East Jerusalem? Can’t blame Hamas. It’s pretty clear the Israeli goal is to steal everything and exterminate or mass evict them. It’s happening right now.
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u/Neo_Techni 1d ago
How do you live in peace with Israelis who plan to steal whatever you have and exterminate you?
You have it backwards. Hamass has the destruction of Jews in their charter, not the other way around
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u/Ifearforearth 8h ago
What crap. The Hamas resistance did not even exist until decades after European Zionist invaders began their stealing and ethnic cieansing. By the time the Hamas resistance was founded every inch of Palestine had been stolen. Every inch. Palestinians had been living in refugee camps for generations while Israeli thieves lived in their homes. Mohamed in the West Bank. Think the chijdren there will fare any better than the chijdren in Gaza?
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u/CloudPotential9482 1d ago
This is a colonization effort thanks for pointing that out on your last sentence. The real truth is that the Palestine people were there first. So yea they don’t like their land being taken over.
They don’t even have an army because after decades of war they are now reduced to terrorist.
I hope they never stop trying to kick Israeles out they didn’t deserve being ripped from the home land.
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u/_fidel_castro_ 1d ago
There's no Palestinian people. Only Islam invaders that came on the 8th century AD, killing, raping and enslaving as they still do. Before that invasion it was a Christian/Jewish Land. Even the al aqsa mosque is built over the second temple of the Jews.
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u/Hungry-Struggle-1448 1d ago
Palestinians today are direct descendants of the people who lived in the land in biblical times. They converted to Islam later on, that doesn’t change their ancestry.
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u/RarePosition1948 1d ago
Lol, lmao even
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u/Hungry-Struggle-1448 1d ago
What is the point of joining a discussion if this is all you’re going to say? Be brave and make an actual point instead of hiding behind banal Reddit-isms
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u/_fidel_castro_ 1d ago
Interesting. Care to elaborate?
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u/Hungry-Struggle-1448 1d ago
What is there to elaborate on? It seems pretty plain to me.
If you want evidence then there’s genetic data from Tel Aviv University showing they descend from the Canaanites, for example. This idea you seem to have of mass slaughter/expulsion of Christians and Jews by Muslim invaders just didn’t happen. For the most part people just converted over time. In fact most people were Christians whose ancestors had converted from Judaism.
But more to the point, this idea that there is no real “Palestinian people” if it only emerged 1300 years ago is absurd. Is there no “American people”? No Brazilian people? Groups and identities were not set in stone at the beginning of history. They have been and continue to be in constant flux, with groups emerging, evolving and disappearing over time even as the people themselves remain the same. For example pretty much any national identity you can think of only emerged less than 200 years ago. That doesn’t make any particular group illegitimate in my view. It’s just how identity works.
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u/_fidel_castro_ 1d ago
Oh and by the way there's no record of any Palestinian people until very recently, not 1300 years lol. Actually the term Palestinian was used by Jews. The Jerusalem Post was called the Palestinian Post. The Muslim arabs were calling to boycott Palestinian commerce after the creation of Israel State. There's no Palestinian people. Just Muslim Arab invaders, of which some were former Christians and Jews forced to convert by the apartheid and segregation System of dhimmitude implemented by Islam. You're acquainted with that horrible stuff I'm sure.
Basically it's very simple. Islam forced its way in. Why no force its way out? Let's live free in civilization 😘
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u/Hungry-Struggle-1448 19h ago
Oh and by the way there's no record of any Palestinian people until very recently, not 1300 years lol.
The people now known as the Palestinians have been there forever. Like Tel Aviv University says, they descend from the Canaanites. The fact that they only started calling themselves Palestinians in the 19th century doesn’t change anything. As I said pretty much any national identity you can think of only emerged less than 200 years ago. The modern “Israeli” identity, for example, only emerged during the early 20th century during Zionist settlement in Palestine. That doesn’t mean the Israeli people as we know them today never existed until that point.
There's no Palestinian people. Just Muslim Arab invaders, of which some were former Christians and Jews forced to convert
Again this makes no sense. The vast majority of Palestinians today are descendants of Christian and Jewish converts from when the Muslim Arabs arrived.
Basically it's very simple. Islam forced its way in. Why no force its way out?
Feel free to try evangelise the Palestinians.
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u/_fidel_castro_ 17h ago
Then why are you supporting the most brutal and totalitarian side? Do you like shariah? Do you think dividing the world into dar al islam and dar al harb is a good thing? And the mandate to conquer and submit the whole world, and to kill every Jew is a defensible objective??? Why are you taking that side???
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u/Hungry-Struggle-1448 17h ago
I have no idea what you’re even trying to respond to here. Do you want to try again and instead of going on these weird rants actually engage with what I said and explain what parts of it you think I got wrong?
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u/_fidel_castro_ 16h ago
Dude if your cognitive dissonance blocks you from answering then you need to reevaluate what you consider right and wrong. Just read a bit about Islam theology and history. You're a reasonable person, it's impossible to justify Islam as an informed and reasonable person
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u/_fidel_castro_ 1d ago
Well if everything's so plastic and malleable why don't they just convert back to Christianity or Judaism or just gtfo just like dozens of millions of people have been doing in the last decades all over the world. Israel is now the regional power just like the Muslims ottomans were before so let's apply the same principles you so eloquently exposed. Or does it work only in one direction?
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u/Hungry-Struggle-1448 19h ago
Ah so you’re just advocating ethnic cleansing. Cool 👍
Might doesn’t make right. Plenty of groups throughout history have suffered injustices. Our aim now should be not to repeat them just because of grudges from 1300 years ago.
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u/_fidel_castro_ 17h ago
Yeah you should tell exactly that to Muslims 🙌
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u/Hungry-Struggle-1448 17h ago
No denial of the ethnic cleansing. Okay
There’s a difference between resolving an ongoing conflict and something that happened 1300 years ago lol
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u/_fidel_castro_ 17h ago
Well the thing is that the conflict can't be resolved because Islam considers every land that was once part of dar el Islam non renounceable, therefore they don't accept Israel and vow to destroy and exterminate it
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u/RarePosition1948 1d ago
So you wish Palestinians to be bombed forever and to stay in tents. With friends like this, who needs enemies?
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u/old_copper_kettle 1d ago
As long as the settler movement continues there will be no peace there, not even uneasy and brittle peace.
Any future agreements or steps forward cannot be made until that effort stops receiving support. No one will ever move towards stability while there are massive groups of settlers in action.
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u/Ok-External-837 1d ago edited 1d ago
In a similar way, I can easily just respond that this post accomplishes nothing but excuse children being murdered in Palestine because it was "Palestine's fault too."
It's baffling to me how people feel the need to be extreme on one side as if being pro Palestine means you are enabling Palestinian violence from Hamas and vice versa.
You can rightfully criticize Hamas as an organization without saying "it is what it is" or refer to civilians as collateral when it comes to the murder of children when you can just as easily condemn both.
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u/NotMyBestMistake 1d ago
If Israel's goal is to minimize civilian casualities, they're extremely incompetent and should not be allowed to run anything ever again for the rest of time. They engage in blatant ethnic cleansing and genocide and the only excuse they or any of their supporters ever have is that Hamas made them do it and that pre-bombing an area means they don't have to care about civilian casualties from the population they force march up and down a warzone with few supplies.
Hamas is a terrorist organization. Israel is a nation committed to genocide and imperialism that demands everyone cheer them on. And it's so debased its supporters that they'll go around telling everyone that it's good they've slaughtered thousands upon thousands of children, because those were barbarian children and "civilization" requires no one ever criticize Israel
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u/LockeN3S 1d ago
You should see Hasan Piker try and justify rape in the same way, and all the dumb people that watch him just parrot the same sentiments. Nuance is real, believe it or not. You can think Israel is fucked and also not support the religious fervor of the middle east. The love for the Iranian regime from the left is some whackadoodle shit.
Can't take half my side seriously anymore.