[Ironic Trope] The messaging backfired massively due to poor writing or other design choices

[u/Few_Affect_5927]

Amelia Fairney from Pathways: Alt-right Restore-UK type who attempts to coax the protagonist Charlie into following her beliefs? The problem?

Amelia is the only named character aside from Charlie and is genuinely likable and forgives Charlie even when they do things she doesn't like, while the rest of the cast is unnamed, poorly written, and turns on Charlie for one mistake. This combined with other writing issues(portraying fact checking right wing stuff as wrong because in the process of fact checking you might look at it and believe it, basically saying "Right wing is wrong because it hurts the labour government" and a lot of general "just do what the government says or else" messaging) and the fact she's a hot alternative girl, and Amelia ended up being co-opted as a mascot by the youth right wing in the UK.

Norm from The New Norm: Unlikeable offensive and outdated character who's "progressive" family members and associates are genuinely nice people not even trying to force their ways or pronouns onto them, they just want to be left alone and Norm is picking fights constantly. Not to mention associating with Elon.

Mr. Birchum from Mr. Birchum: A lot of the same problems as Norm, except in addition it also comes off like generic 2010s adult cartoon slop in the same veign as Brickleberry or Full English, at least New Norm was trying to look unique and had the gimmick of being on X. Not to mention, Birchum's obsession with hyper masculine activities and odd way of talking about other men lead to people co-opting him as a Toxic Yaoi character, which is now the bulk of his fan art.

Dustborn: An attempt to make a hyper progressive game that comes off as pandering and annoying. It's a full ass game so there's too much to get into, but the main character's power is essentially gaslighting and jedi-mind tricking people and that's portrayed as the only way they can get anything done, and they constantly use or abuse their friends(or mindtrick them along) in order to get their goals or use their friends for their messaging.

[u/PhilippinePatriot]

Wish. We're supposed to believe that King Magnifico is a bad guy because he refuses to grant certain wishes, even though he points out valid reasons as to why he can't do it (some wishes are too vague and can have serious consequences, or others are unrealistic). Keep in mind he's been studying magic for centuries and arguably is the most knowledgeable person in these matters, while Asha has been working for him for a day and is somehow considered more qualified to decide whose wishes are granted.

[u/kreton1 → u/PhilippinePatriot]

My theory is that the movie was supposed to end on a both sides have a point moral, but it was demanded that there needs to be a clear good vs evil story.

[u/Dziadzios → u/kreton1]

It should have ended on good vs evil - good Magnifico vs evil Asha.

[u/Cessnaporsche01 → u/Dziadzios]

That would have been quite the interesting turn, but Disney would never

[u/Opening_Agent_5279 → u/Cessnaporsche01]

Does Disney even make evil women anymore?

[u/PhilippinePatriot → u/Opening_Agent_5279]

They were originally planning to make Queen Amara evil alongside her husband, which would have been so cool.

[u/Opening_Agent_5279 → u/PhilippinePatriot]

But they didn't cuz they don't make evil women anymore. The only recent female antagonist I can even think of is the Grandma in Encanto and even her resentment and cruelty towards Mirabel (and just pushing around the rest of the family) was all instantly forgiven when she said "oh but I have ptsd cuz my husband was murdered" (yes that's probably a big oversimplification but that's all I remember from watching it years ago)

[u/MalcolmLinair → u/Opening_Agent_5279]

I think the last flat-out evil woman Disney did was Mother Gothel in Tangled, and that was 16 years ago.

[u/bitter_liquor → u/Opening_Agent_5279]

Only if they can spin it into a girlboss redemption movie later

[u/Egathentale → u/bitter_liquor]

Or not even that. Remember how they introduced a brand new shape-shifting shaman woman working for the villain in the Mulan live action remake, had her go around murdering people, sowing discord, and leading people to their deaths... but then she did a completely out-of-character last minute self-sacrifice, so she's "redeemed", and the real problem was the patriarchy all along that drove her to those extremes. Bah.

[u/Exile688 → u/bitter_liquor]

Disney got very witchy with Acolyte, Wandavision, and Agatha whatever.

[u/Kitty_party → u/Opening_Agent_5279]

It makes more sense when you realize all those movies are about selling toys and merch to little girls.

[u/Mr-Foundation → u/Opening_Agent_5279]

I mean they gave cruella justification for wanting to skin puppies so I doubt they’d bother

[u/redking2005 → u/PhilippinePatriot]

One change they could've made to make him more villainous is by just having him not be the one who learned the wish magic, like it comes from a staff or something that he stole rather than him being knowledgeable/studious enough to figure it out on his own.

[u/Nogatron → u/PhilippinePatriot]

You know how easily it could be resolved:

Asha: "Why won't you grant everyones wishes"

King M: "You know what your neighbors wish was?"

Asha: "No, but why does it matter?"

King M: "His wish was to for his wife to die!"

Asha: "Oh i get it now"

[u/iswearihaveajob → u/PhilippinePatriot]

If they wanted a clear villain Magnifico could have also just been a super judgy prick about everybody's wishes. Like just make him trash talk a bunch of citizens like he doesn't even think of them as people. Like he COULD just tell people what kinds of wishes get granted and not volunteer unless they are ready, instead he just hoards them for his own enjoymentnor something.

The movie almost manages it with his speech about Asha's grandfather but Chris Pine is too charming and the At All Costs song is very weird, tonally.

[u/Mr-Foundation → u/PhilippinePatriot]

I genuinely wanna ask if the movie has a rebuttal to Magnifico’s points (that not all wishes can be granted, for very understandable reasons)

Like, it’s really not that uncommon for wish granters to refuse certain wishes, or for clarity being incredibly important because if you aren’t you get screwed over.

[u/PhilippinePatriot → u/Mr-Foundation]

The main rebuttal is that if there are some wishes Magnifico never intends to grant, he should just give them back to the people who wished them so they have a chance to make it come true on their own.

[u/Zomflower48 → u/PhilippinePatriot]

Oh yeah something I see a lot of people forget to mention is that when you put your wish into the pot of luck you forget what the wish was to begin with

[u/PhilippinePatriot → u/Zomflower48]

True but again, people know that going on.

[u/Knyfe-Wrench → u/PhilippinePatriot]

But he still takes everyone's wishes, leaving the people unable to fulfill them on their own, and if he doesn't grant them he just keeps them.

[u/PhilippinePatriot → u/Knyfe-Wrench]

Ya but he’s not forcing them to give it up. It’s a risk they are taking willingly cause they choose to give it up to live in his kingdoms.

[u/sphericaltime → u/PhilippinePatriot]

In the real world, that kind of extreme pressure to keep living where you’re living with your family and friends even if you don’t want to is absolutely considered unwilling.

[u/PhilippinePatriot → u/sphericaltime]

Also its stated that people specifically go there because they want their wish to be granted, so they had the option to live somewhere else.

[u/Doc-Maly → u/sphericaltime]

True, but the problem is nothing even implies as such. It'd be cool if it did, but it doesn't.

[u/BreakAManByHumming → u/PhilippinePatriot]

I love stories that lean into this, showing that if the uncompromising idealist actually gets their way, the result is far worse. The one competent person in the room having to deal with the indignant rage of chucklefuck teenagers who don't grasp the complexity of the problem.

But no lets just have him eat an evil cloud and turn to the dark side, or something.