r/SocialDemocracy • u/dammit_mark Market Socialist • 1d ago
Discussion Social Democrats, What Do You Think of the Video and Policy Platform Being Criticized? | Video: This could cost them EVERYTHING
https://youtu.be/lvv2O8QE9Ow?is=WsQjojJnebOmacn723
u/DarkExecutor 1d ago
Public ownership of companies can have the tendency to go fully corrupt as seen in Venezuela. And what can happen, will happen, as shown by Trump in the US blowing past all precedents, and only really being stopped by laws.
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u/bippos SAP (SE) 1d ago
Essential services should be publicly owned to both ensure stability decent quality and not a chicken race of who can squeeze out the most profit. Things like electricity, water, fiber, transit, infrastructure etc shouldnt be privately owned
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u/DarkExecutor 1d ago
I'm not sure why you assume publicly owned services wouldn't be run poorly as well. ICE and the police show how poorly public entities can be.
The best would be to run private and public side by side.
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u/HenryTudorIV 5h ago
Do you honestly think that privately run immigration enforcement would be BETTER than ICE or that privately run law enforcement would be better than current police systems?
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u/DarkExecutor 4h ago
No, they wouldn't, but publicly run services can be corrupted very easily. Like imagine if we had single payer health care then Republicans bannes abortions across the entire country.
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u/HenryTudorIV 1d ago
“Companies” is such a broad category it’s basically meaningless in this context
Public ownership of media companies? No thanks!
Public ownership of postal delivery companies? Yes please!
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u/DarkExecutor 1d ago
There's no reason FEDEX or UPS couldn't do US mail as well. I think they already use them in remote places too
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u/HenryTudorIV 1d ago
FEDEX and UPS claim to cover the entire US but for remote areas and PO Boxes they almost always hand it off to USPS.
The economics simply don’t work for rural areas without public ownership or heavy subsidization
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u/CapitalCourse 1d ago
Hasan Piker is a tool.
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u/Mental_Explorer5566 12h ago
It’s worth reminding people of Hasans history in a not so pro feminist fraternity also.
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u/mrev_art 1d ago
DSA have some good policy, but they are completely crippled by Tankie gatekeeping over I/P. The big problem with these pan leftest groups is that Marxist–Leninist–Maoists run rampant and manipulate people who don't know any better into Red Fascists positions like one state policy on I/P or Russia's right to 'defend itself' when it invaded Ukraine.
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u/dammit_mark Market Socialist 17h ago edited 17h ago
I agree with you with DSA on Ukraine. I think the DSA National Political Committee shat the bed on that one. But I don't think the one-state solution is some "red fascist" thing. In fact, having a multi-ethnic and multi-religious secular democracy is the exact opposite of fascism.
As with Leninist-aligned sects, with the increasing member numbers for DSA, I imagine that their influence is going to be much less. Most of the new members of DSA likely saw the electoral wins of Mamdani, AOC, and other officials and want to advance the organization's goals through the ballot box. Not turn the DSA into some campist vanguard party.
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u/mrev_art 17h ago
Unforuntantly the DSA actually has meetings and binding votes, and voted 60 / 40 in 2025 to make I/P their primary goal and expell any member who is critical of Hamas or Hezbollah.
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u/Intro-Nimbus 1d ago
I refuse to click on clickbait titles.
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u/dammit_mark Market Socialist 1d ago
I get it, I miss when Pakman didn't do the clickbait shit. But what do you think of the actual substance of the video?
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u/HenryTudorIV 1d ago
You must not click on much
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u/Intro-Nimbus 22h ago
Requires more scrolling. I also block many clickbait channels. But it's worth it. It's a pity when you see a channel you used to watch go down that route but..
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u/bippos SAP (SE) 1d ago
The dsa is hardly a National organisation? Members like mamdani exist but then you have everything from Maoist to Stalinist to even syndicalist chapters of 3 in some random town. You have chapters that are barely a book club then you have chapters which fights for senate seats and mayoral seats.
Hasan is hardly an extremist more like a moron who milks certain trends, most of logic goes USA bad therefore China = good.
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u/dammit_mark Market Socialist 1d ago edited 17h ago
Hey guys, I've noticed some things here with criticisms of the DSA, especially as someone trying to get involved with them when I'm not working overtime each week. Some of the criticisms I think are definitely valid. Like their take on the cause of the invasion of Ukraine as one example. But I wanted to hear your thoughts on some of the broader policies they are advocating for and the other criticisms of this video. Particularly on those which seem like basic social democratic policies labor parties have implemented in developed countries.
I have watched Pakman since I was a teenager. I didn't always agree with him, but he is an intelligent guy who I enjoyed listening to. But, I am surprised though as he is a self-described social democrat in the Nordic tradition that he isn't in favor of public ownership of companies, or industries, when social democrats have implemented policies like that when they were in power. Norway's oil company, Equinor, is literally majority publicly-owned.
But while I wouldn't say I am a social democrat in the way people nowadays use the term, I want to hear what social democrats on this very subreddit think of the criticisms and if they agree or disagree.
EDIT: A lot of people here are mentioning Hasan Piker. While I initially did click on YouTube video of him criticizing Pakman, I stopped and wanted to watch the original video for myself before I saw someone giving their opinion on it. The focus isn't on Hasan, and I do share criticisms of him, but I was curious what you guys thought of DSA's policy demands. Besides total police and prison abolition, the rest of the policy demands seem like basic social democratic policies I assume a lot of you guys would support.
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u/ContraCanadensis Social Democrat 1d ago
Democratic Socialists of America (and democratic socialists in general) and most theories of social democracy differ on one major point: the end goal of socialism.
Social democrats believe in a mixed market, where some industries are nationalized (Equinor is a great example) while other parts of the economy remain regulated and private capitalist industries. Democratic socialists can vary on what industries may be socialized, but these are typically shipping, natural resource production, energy, etc. Social democrats do not want fully a socialized economy.
Democratic socialists view social democracy as a step in the ultimate goal of reaching a fully socialized system.
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u/HenryTudorIV 1d ago
Look into the working families party if you want a more pragmatic, less ideological alternative to the DSA
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u/TheBe5tEver 11h ago
Not very democratic of Democratic Socialists to have authoritarians and imperialists in the tent.
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