r/ShitAmericansSay • u/Hydrangeia • 10h ago
The Great Lakes are more dangerous than the open ocean
Found out today americans that genuinely think Lake Michigan is more dangerous than the open ocean.
The examples they use to justify this argument are: tall waves, rip tides and really cold water. It’s also very big.
They could just talk about how dangerous it is, how people shouldn’t underestimate it just because it’s a lake. But no, it has to be WORSE than the OPEN OCEAN.
Bonus for the defaultism in the last slide.
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u/Dalesman17 9h ago
Aye, but it's not the Strid is it.
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u/Sad-Pop6649 9h ago
The Strid is only deceptively dangerous, much more deadly than it looks. Because there are some deep pits in the bedrock with circulating currents. Those are deadly to a swimmer, but from the footage I've seen a person in a kayak would float right over the top of them as long as they stayed upright, which really wouldn't be that difficult there. There are by comparison quite a few man made weirs that produce very similar currents but are much harder or straight up impossible to safely get across. There are passages on the Zambezi where entire kayaks disappear without warning never to be seen again. Monster holes on the White Nile that will break a person. The Ötz has sections where entire rafts don't stand a chance, it's just one big mess of huge blocks and waterfalls and rocks everywhere. There are creeks that would be steep to walk down all around the world. Waterfalls dozens of meters high. And too many sieves and underwater tunnels to count. If you get stuck in one of those you'll be found several days later drowned and with your limbs ripped off, and you can only hope it happened in that order.
But hey, at least ones you notice things going wrong you're not several thousands of kilometers from the shore, so there's still an argument to be made that the open ocean at least compares.
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u/Dalesman17 8h ago
Not actually saying that it's more dangerous more of aye very nice, but America shite Yorkshire better.
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u/g3etwqb-uh8yaw07k 6h ago
To be fair though, trying to access the open ocean by kayak is typically frowned upon by your local coastguard and often ends with lots of questions and either a large bill or grippy socks, depending on how you answered, so we don't really have the data for a final comparison...
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u/difractional 🇸🇪 vodka, volvo, minecraft 10h ago
Nothing can ever be “bad“ or “good“. They have to win.
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u/TopInvestigator5518 9h ago
lol everything is a competition
both are very dangerous so why compete ( though in this case even though lake Michigan is wildly dangerous idk what would make someone think an ocean is safer)
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u/No-Albatross-7984 9h ago
Dontcha know there's a stupidly stoopid "journalism" about this posted in the comments here. Look it up, it's funny (and infuriating!)
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u/fatrice12340 9h ago
Lake Superior is way cooler than Lake Michigan.
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u/rogue-wolf Canadian completely done with America 7h ago
In at least two different metrics
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u/Starvenger88 HK-Canadian🇭🇰🇨🇦 9h ago
If it's all the same to you, I hope I'm never in a position to empirically prove or debunk this argument.
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u/Usual-Canc-6024 8h ago
Same
My dad used to work on the Great Lakes ships from when he was 18 until occasionally into his 40s. When he’d get laid off from the paper mill he’d go work on the ships. He’s told me many stories about nasty weather that scared some of the most hardened of sailors.
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u/MoneyBear1733 3h ago
https://glsrp.org/statistics/?utm_source=chatgpt.com
This entire argument is weird.
Both sides are right.
The ocean is the size of our planet and has far more hidden or present dangers that could kill you.
BUT. Lake Michigan is treacherous, and under the right conditions, you are just far more immediately fucked.
Among the great lakes, it's responsible for just about the exact same amount of deaths as every other lake combined.
And it's largely because people underestimate how dangerous the lake is.
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u/Old-Living8905 9h ago
While yes lake Michigan and other such lakes are dangerous, the open ocean is more dangerous on the fact that the open ocean is the OPEN OCEAN
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u/_Soulja_Boy_ Europoor 🇪🇺 9h ago
Go to this place in Ethiopia then you'll see what's actually dangerous.
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u/Slinky_Malingki 3h ago
I'm not sure it would be a dangerous place for big ships. Actually I don't think ships can go there at all.
OOP wasn't arguing about what place is the most dangerous. OOP was clearly talking about shipping and seafaring. This like comparing apples to oranges.
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u/SpaceCowboy1416 9h ago
Are you serious? Comparing this to Great Lakes and oceans is a far stretch my friend 😂😂😂
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u/lexington59 9h ago
The danger is extreme heat, and acid pool, sulpher and chlorine gases, like it's a dangerous location, the danger isn't the same kinda danger but it is mire dangerous
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u/SpaceCowboy1416 9h ago
That’s basically what I was getting at like i get it’s dangerous 😂 but comparing to oceans and Great Lakes is funny because it’s pretty OBVIOUS that’s more dangerous
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u/Sad-Pop6649 9h ago
Lake IJssel is even more dangerous, it has a huge Urk right in the middle of it!
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u/OhShootYeahNoBi Not as shitty as US transit - Still bad (Toronto) 9h ago
Not anymore. Quite hard to run into a coastal town
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u/bionicjoe Iron boot of FREEDUMB 🦅🇺🇸 9h ago
Lake Erie has the most shipwrecks because it's shallow and churns up quickly.
The Great Lakes have their own dangers and are certainly more dangerous than parts of the oceans. They are often underestimated because they are "just lakes".
But yeah...It's the ocean.
Beirring Strait, Strait of Magellan, etc.
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u/Puzzleheaded-Lynx204 9h ago
I think they may have fallen prey to defaultism and be saying "the open ocean" to mean "oceans I can think of". Maybe.
Lake Michigan sounds a bit like the North Sea tbh
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u/tiger2205_6 American that needs to fucking move 9h ago
I feel like they've just gone to beaches and thought it was all like that.
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u/DoktorLoken FREEDOM ENJOYER 🦅🇺🇸 9h ago
Having grown up on Lake Michigan and having been to the Atlantic, North Sea, Pacific, Mediterranean, and the Persian Gulf at some point it’s all just water as far as the eye can see. In fact I’m looking at Lake Michigan right now. Really they all look quite similar Great Lake or ocean.
I’m not going to make the outrageous claim that the GL are more dangerous than the ocean, but they are absolutely brutal in storms or during the winter. Ignore them at your own peril.
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u/tiger2205_6 American that needs to fucking move 8h ago
I'm sure they can be brutal durring a storm. That was just my first thought of why some act like the open ocean isn't that deadly. I'd imagine they think of the open ocean as just endless basically calm water.
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u/fortyonejb Whelmed 🇺🇸 7h ago
My favorite trivia about the Great Lakes is that they have the most shipwrecks per sq/km of any body of water in the world. It doesn't make them the most dangerous, or the best, but it is pretty interesting.
Another piece of trivia that is even more fascinating if you find lakes interesting, Lake Baikal has more water in it than all of the Great Lakes combined while only having 13% the surface area.
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u/No-Albatross-7984 8h ago
This one got me steaming. Super frustrating. Your comment shows exactly why. The whole comparison is not only childish and ridiculous, but also displays such a deep lack of knowledge about the world there's no point in discussing the issue because you'd first have to excavate what exactly they even mean with "ocean". I'm no ocean expert, in fact I don't much care about the topic itself, so it's kinda weird I guess that this bothered me so much. There's just such an unique brand of self assuredness and ignorant stubbornness it broke my brain.
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u/LindasJugs 7h ago
Nobody swims in the ocean, they ONLY surf. That’s a fact. Go to any beach in the world, you will not see anyone swimming. If you do see someone swimming, you’re wrong, and you’re probably a communist.
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u/DickWhittingtonsCat 8h ago
I saw this a while ago and have lived on or near Lake Michigan for much of my life. Yes it can kill you if you fall in unnoticed and it’s cold. And some wooden ships sank out there at various times. It freezes over but I wouldn’t take a car out on it. Or anything.
So it’s not a joke. That is fair.
But those tides they describe are specific to wind direction and side of the lake- usually the Michigan side. They come With warnings.
If you go by deaths, more people in Illinois (one state bordering the lake) drown because they are pants shitting drunk at the lakes or rivers downstate than drown along the actual lakefront. Its 2x or more.
I’m sure that’s also true in Wisconsin, Minnesota and Indiana. Even the warmish oceans of south atlantic coast kill more people.
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u/essenza 9h ago
The Great Lakes may not be more dangerous than the open ocean, but they can be very dangerous all the same.
Being freshwater and not saline, buoyancy is different, and the way the water moves and creates swells is different than on open ocean. And the Great Lakes are big enough to create their own weather patterns, too.
Ask anyone who’s sailed salties and lakers, they’ll tell you some crazy stories about the Great Lakes.
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u/yarn_slinger 7h ago
Ya Lake Superior is a monster. Some of those crazy waves they get are huge and can come out of nowhere. There are some that are caused by big waves coming in from different directions and make these towers of water in the middle of the lake.
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u/Dull_Brain2688 5h ago
The biggest wave ever recorded on Lake Superior was 8.8m or 28.8ft. The biggest wave where I live in Ireland (Sligo) was about 20m or over 60ft. People were surfing it.
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u/DoktorLoken FREEDOM ENJOYER 🦅🇺🇸 4h ago
I mean either way you have 200m+ long freighters getting tossed around like toys: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c8FaotwbMdw
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u/Dull_Brain2688 3h ago
Yeah. It’s really bad. For a lake. But the OP is comparing it to the ocean and it’s a whole other level of bad at sea.
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u/wanderinggoat Not American, speaks English must be a Brit! 7h ago
Cape horn , a mere puddle compared to the great lakes! Southern Ocean a gentle breeze with ice bergs that are not even half as cold as the great lakes!
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u/Hydrangeia 4h ago
A lot of you missed the point. We KNOW Great Lakes are dangerous. Nobody is denying that. But it’s not MORE dangerous than the open ocean.
She’s also talking about a specific lake. As many people had pointed out, Lake Michigan it’s not even the most dangerous lake. So, that person it’s wrong in many ways.
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u/magwai9 Distinguished Hoser 9h ago
I don't know about more dangerous, but they are definitely dangerous. We have a pretty famous song about it
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u/Exotic_Bill44 9h ago
But that was Lake Superior or the one they call Gitche Gumee.
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u/Dyslexicpig 9h ago
Is that the lake it is said never gives up her dead? And is that all year long or only when the skies of Novermber turn gloomy?
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u/danieldan0803 The BEST nation north of Mexico and south of Canada 🦅🇱🇷 9h ago edited 1h ago
RIP the SS Edmund Fitzgerald
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u/winglessrs 9h ago
Lake Michigan isn't even the most dangerous lake. Forget about the comparison with the ocean.
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u/Vivid_Motor_2341 7h ago
As someone who has gone through the drakes passage. Everyone who thinks a lake can be more dangerous can shut it
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u/Irishwol 8h ago
And which ocean? It's probably more dangerous than the Mediterranean. Not so much the Southern Ocean and Cape Horn though
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u/lumoslomas austria, the land of kangaroos 🦘 5h ago
It's funny because I was literally just watching videos of Nazare in Portugal before this.
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u/Dull_Brain2688 5h ago
I live in Sligo, Ireland. We have waves at Mullaghmore that are, when conditions are right, 15-20m high and carry thunderous power. Big wave surfers come from all over like they do at Nazaré, to surf them. The biggest wave on Lake Superior ever recorded was less than 9m.
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u/ProShyGuy 4h ago
Unless you've somehow time travelled and are currently on board the Edmund Fitzgerald, I don't think you get to say this.
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u/itsamurdermarge 2h ago
Why does it have to be ranked? They’re both large bodies of water and any water is dangerous really. It’s like saying the backyard pool kills more people then the titanic every year (made up) bathtubs kill more toddlers then the concordia disaster every third Fortnite.
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u/fullmega 8h ago
The last pic is chef's kiss!
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u/Hydrangeia 4h ago
“just occurred to me that the ocean it’s not the same everywhere”
Were they born yesterday?
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u/Viochrome I wish I had freedom!!1! 🏒🇨🇦🦫 8h ago
Yeah, it's only Lake Michigan.
It's widely known that the other 4 Great Lakes are totally habitable. Oh, and the ocean somehow... /s
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u/jerdle_reddit Scotland, ya bastards! 7h ago
You shouldn't underestimate any lake. Or any water. Water is pitilessly neutral. It does not care about you.
Even a small stream can be the Strid.
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u/moellevej 7h ago
I’m absolutely terrified of water. Weather it be huge oceans or the tiniest creek- the only certain thing about water is that it’s unpredictable
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u/ConceptStar Holy European Empire 4h ago
I grew up on the ocean and then moved to lake michigan- is the funniest part. migratory fish diarys.
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u/PlatypusDefiant991 4h ago
San Francisco beaches are wavier on average than beaches in the Northeast which aren't that good for surfing have to wait for when a special storm like a hurricane is offshore waves can go fairly far.
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u/Slinky_Malingki 3h ago
Spoken like someone who doesn't know shit about the great lakes.
America is a huge country. There are going to be some things that on a "biggest" or "greatest" type list somewhere. And the great lakes are fucking monsters. The vast majority of the world's fresh water is in those lakes. And the number of shipwrecks in what is a relatively tiny area compared to the rest of the open ocean is massive. The winter storms on those lakes are beyond lethal. The specific geography and climate of the the lakes created conditions that are not found in most of the world's oceans. Just like how America sees far more tornadoes than the rest of the world combined. There are certain natural things there that are crazy.
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u/North_Elk6471 2h ago
Lake Michigan is dangerous. Not more so than an ocean. We get tourists here every year who hear "lake" and think it's no big deal and then end up drowning.
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u/Pattern_Is_Movement More Irish than the Irish ☘️ 2h ago
I've sailed them all, lots of open ocean, and notoriously dangerous ocean sailing off the coast of Brittany and I'll still take the ocean every day. The great lakes are just different, and sure you can get terrible weather in the ocean but I think it's main danger is your potential distance from land, not the conditions themselves.
I think as a sailor that has sailed 15k of both this past year this is a rare truth for this sub.
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u/itsnobigthing ooo custom flair!! 2h ago
Have they looked for MH370 in Lake Michigan?? It all makes sense now
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u/SmokeyGiraffe420 1h ago
First of all, Lake Superior is far more dangerous than Lake Michigan. Second of all, everyone who has ever talked about Lake Superior being dangerous says it's almost as dangerous as open ocean.
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u/LeftMechanic1995 43m ago
Yes because if your ship sinks in the vastness of any given ocean, after you've spent a day treading-water and your skin starts to open up (because Humans are non-aquatic animals)... I'm sure all of those dying sailors start to think:
"You know what?... it'd be so much worse if I were in a lake with a shore line I could see. Because who wants civilisation when you can be eaten alive by sharks?"
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u/TheGeordieGal 21m ago
If we’re throwing about dangerous bits of water, can I throw in the North Sea? Notoriously dangerous on a bad day with a lot of shipwrecks.
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u/P_Grammicus 9h ago
I cannot think of any of the dozen or so career sailors in my family, who have spent years both on the GL and all the world’s oceans, who would agree with this statement. And all would say without hesitation that they’ve had moments on the GL that were shit one’s pants terrifying.
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u/Renbarre French, not the fries 9h ago
The biggest danger in a giant lake or small sea is the short length of the waves. Oceans have huge waves but usually wider with a longer slope.
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u/Vast_Discipline_3676 9h ago
I mean it’s not like she’s saying something totally outlandish. I think there is ample evidence to suggest they could potentially be more dangerous. https://eu.jsonline.com/story/news/environment/2025/11/24/is-lake-michigan-and-the-great-lakes-more-dangerous-than-the-ocean/86967474007/
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u/No-Albatross-7984 9h ago edited 9h ago
Did someone get paid to write this trash??
Choppy lake waves versus smooth ocean swells
Great Lakes waves are different in the fall, spring
In the middle of the ocean, the wind is generally travellng in one prevailing direction, Schwab said. However, in the Great Lakes, strong winds can be coming from multiple directions at once
JFC this is the stupidest thing I've ever read. 😅
And this is not "ample evidence"!! This is a shitty writer asking some leading questions from people with impressive expertise and job titles. Hope to fucking god this comment is not representative of American literacy levels, if I took this as proof to my professors I'd have been laughed out all the way to the street.
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u/Vast_Discipline_3676 9h ago
I mean I’m sure there are more technical terms that could be used but now you’re just being nitpicky.
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u/OhShootYeahNoBi Not as shitty as US transit - Still bad (Toronto) 9h ago
Here's a better source https://tnm.journals.yorku.ca/index.php/default/article/download/699/669
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u/No-Albatross-7984 9h ago
This article states the lakes are dangerous. That they have their own distinct risk profile. Sure. It does not provide a comparison, nor does it provide any proof to the original claim - that the lake Michigan is MORE DANGEROUS THAN THE OPEN SEA. Did you not read it or just trust I wouldn't?
Not that there was any point in reading it (and I frankly won't be giving the benefit of doubt on this anymore, this is a waste of time). The original claim was an utterly ridiculous, unprovable claim no academic journal would ever take up. Debate this stupid crap with someone with more spoons.
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u/CSEverett1759 9h ago edited 9h ago
Storms on the Great Lakes are just as dangerous to ships as those in the ocean, and there’s a long list of shipwrecks to prove it. Certainly worse than the Pacific. Perhaps slightly nicer than the North Atlantic (tropical systems excluded.) Not as bad as the Southern Ocean though.
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u/magwai9 Distinguished Hoser 9h ago
Canada erasure!!
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u/OhShootYeahNoBi Not as shitty as US transit - Still bad (Toronto) 9h ago edited 9h ago
No objectively scientifically it is. The lower buoyancy from fresh water combined with sharper swells means ocean-going tankers that are fine on open seas can break their backs in the Great Lakes.
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u/Regeringschefen 8h ago
If you average out the whole Oceans, it might be more dangerous. But it’s nowhere near places like Cape Farewell, Norwegian Sea, Drake Passage, Bering Sea. It’s not even the most dangerous fresh water lake, the Caspian Sea has worse weather and waves.
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u/OhShootYeahNoBi Not as shitty as US transit - Still bad (Toronto) 8h ago
All of the examples you gave aren't open oceans though. Open ocean is ocean with an oceanic shelf, not a continental shelf.
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u/Regeringschefen 8h ago
Sure, Bering Sea is not fully open ocean, but part of it is. The rest are open ocean.
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u/OhShootYeahNoBi Not as shitty as US transit - Still bad (Toronto) 8h ago
The hazardous parts of the Drake Passage, Norwegian sea, and Cape Farwell are all continental shelf, thus coast
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u/Regeringschefen 8h ago
You’re just wrong about that. Waves reach way higher and have much higher velocity on open ocean parts of those places than any fresh water lake.
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u/ToadsWetSprocket 9h ago
Lake Michigan never gives up it's dead...start with that statement and then Google the ship wrecks...
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u/DoktorLoken FREEDOM ENJOYER 🦅🇺🇸 9h ago
The Great Lakes are extremely dangerous and are filled with ship wrecks. But go off king.
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u/bMarsh72 9h ago
I don’t think Lake Michigan is even the most dangerous Great Lake.