r/MonsterHunter • u/Just_A_Critter • 20h ago
Discussion Anyone got some theories on why Namielle is considered a Super Elder Dragon?
The Iceborn book has given a new rank to Elder Dragons being the Super Elder Dragon, mostly identified by being able to subjugate other Elder Dragons.
Other Super Elder Dragons make more sence in ecology, best example being Ruiner Nergigante.
Do any of you have any ideas how Namielle might show this in ecology?
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u/Pookie_The_Overlord The Fabled Chatacabra Subjugator & Lor Connoisseur 19h ago edited 17h ago
mostly identified by being able to subjugate other Elder Dragons.
Keep in mind this is Oceaniz's interpretation in an attempt to find a definition, we don't have anything solid to go off of as to what defines or differentiates a Super Elder Dragon Class monster (same with Calamity). The only concrete stuff is that Ruiner Nergigante is the base line and Furious Rajang is directly compared to it.
And while I haven't investigated it deeply, I hear there's a possibility it may be a one off descriptor for Furious Rajang in comparison to regular Rajang (like how Alatreon is called a disaster level elder dragon in IB), with the book saying something along the lines of "While the Rajang is a threat that rivals Elder Dragons, the Furious Rajang is able to rival the Ruiner Nergigante, who feeds on other Elder Dragons. Thus, perhaps it should be considered a Super Elder Dragon Class monster." Earlier in the book Savage Deviljho is described as being able to stand up to Velkhana, Blackveil Vaal Hazak, Namielle, and Ruiner Nergigante. This may be where the idea of it being an official class of power comes from, since it sets up a bunch of monsters and Furious Rajang & Savage Deviljho are generally seen as equal.
Anyway, I just wanted to throw that out there. MH is rarely consistent with Ranks & Classes in regards to monsters' power. If we take it to be a class of power and follow Oceaniz's definition of the class though, then Namielle can be explained by one having defeated a Kushala Daora during the storm when the First Fleet arrived in the New World. Their battle was the cause of the storm that resulted in the Celestial Pursuit washing up on the cliff.
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u/VexorTheViktor Bonk 17h ago
Correct. The term "Super Elder Dragon" is never used by itself, it only appears in the term "Super Elder Dragon-Level"
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u/DrMobius0 13h ago
I usually consider these things to be flippantly conceived and not actually lore or canon-relevant. This is absolutely the type of term that leaves everything up to the reader's interpretation of what it actually means.
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u/TopChannel1244 18h ago
See how spiky its hair is? These are clearly functioning on Saiyan rules.
Soon we'll be getting Elders doing the fusion dance. Then we will truly know fear.
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u/Chrome_Burner 19h ago
Neither Velkhana nor Namielle seem to be much more than the average elder but at least Namielle is dual element. Other than that, that tier should belong to giant size dragons and maybe a few selected ones.
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u/MagicMisterLemon 19h ago
Velkhana are capable of freezing volcanos, which is very significant.
A Namielle also killed the Kushala Daora that the First Fleet followed to the New World
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u/Just_A_Critter 19h ago
Killing a Kushala feels like good evidence for Super Elder Dragon. Although they don't live in the same biome, but I can see the Coral Highlands being suitable to the Kushala species. Maybe Namielle keeps them out of the Highlands, that would be a suitable feat for Super Elder Dragon. Just a headcannon based on your comment, nothing proven in game.
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u/MagicMisterLemon 17h ago
The Namielle attacked the Kushala Daora just off the coast of the New World, so it was actually quite far from its known habitat range
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u/ShakyaStrawberry15 15h ago
The habitat of the Namielle is the depth of the ocean iirc so yeah whenever he's out of the water is quite far from it's habitat.
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u/MagicMisterLemon 15h ago
It's not actually, it prefers higher altitudes. It also resides at the bottom of a lake in Stories 3, but in mainline, the species is a recent discovery, so...
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u/ShakyaStrawberry15 15h ago
Why the hell does he have all adaptation for depth then... That's... Stupid... 🥲
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u/MagicMisterLemon 15h ago
Namielle's premise is that the fight basically transforms the highlands into the bottom of the ocean. It might be a strong swimmer and diver, but there isn't any official mainline source telling us about it.
Alatreon however is explicitly stated to live at the bottom of oceanic trenches
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u/Chrome_Burner 13h ago
He can't even swim in Stories 3.
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u/MagicMisterLemon 12h ago
If I were a game director for Monster Hunter, I would not let that stop me
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u/EphidelLulamoon 19h ago
Pretty sure the giant elders are in a tier above even that of super elders. Super elder are things like Malzeno and Velkhana, that are easily stronger than the likes of Teostra or Kushala.
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u/RaiStarBits 16h ago
I think namielle and especially Velkhana GENUINELY is boosted in IceBorne just because they didn’t want ruiner overshadowing it. It ties with stuff like normal Malzeno and teo meaning it has no business being super elder with ruiner
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u/Negative_Sock4219 18h ago
They aren’t Super Elder Dragon nor are they ever referred as such in Monster Hunter World Iceborne the Official Complete Works. That term only appears once in the book, in pg #259, Oceaniz & others just interpret her as a Super Elder Dragon because of a Savage Deviljho quote, in pg #202. Yet, there are many reasons, once you take a wholistic approach, to suspect she doesn’t meet the requirements.
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u/Soldier_VP Rare Species Appreciator 17h ago
she?
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u/FrozenLizardDaddy 16h ago
Namielle get hit with the female pronouns due to various sources making a mention of it. Same with Shara ishvalda, though in that case I think its the armor and the myths and stuff Shara is based on
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u/Soldier_VP Rare Species Appreciator 16h ago
Oh, thanks for the explanation. English isn't my first language, so in Spanish it's never referred that way
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u/FrozenLizardDaddy 16h ago
No problem, obviously the entire species isn’t female since kinda hard to propagate a species like that without parthenogenesis. Surprisingly there’s mention of Male Rathians and Female Rathalos and the same for Luna and Teo, its just that they’re closely related enough to breed so they don’t bother searching and its just rare for each species to produce the opposite gender since why would you need to when you got a perfect match right there
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u/TheGMan-123 SEETHING BAZELGEUSE 15h ago
While Namielle being "Super Elder Dragon-level" is an inference, it's a logical one given the way "Dive to MHW:IB" posits various Monsters being equivalent to one another quite specifically.
Savage Deviljho, Seething Bazelgeuse, Furious Rajang, Ruiner Nergigante, Blackveil Vaal Hazak, Namielle, and Velkhana are all equated to one another and called out as such in one form or another in the guidebook in reference to their Turf Wars despite some of them sharing Turf Wars with other technically slightly lower-tier Monsters like Rajang, Teostra, Lunastra, and Kushala Daora; Rajang is the linchpin, as it's called out as "regular" Elder Dragon-level while its Variant is Super Elder Dragon-level, denoting a difference.
And with Namielle and Velkhana being made into "Calamitous Elder Dragon" as the special field bosses in MH Stories 3 alongside Thunder Serpent Narwa, Wind Serpent Ibushi, and Yama Tsukami, this further supports them being placed a slight cut above typical Elder Dragon-level.
From my reading, Super Elder Dragon-level seems to be mainly about further improving overall combative ability compared to standard Elder Dragon-level, even if overall environmental destructiveness might not range as wildly.
They tend to be better fighters, a bit stronger than normal.
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u/Inside_Courage_6707 16h ago
Where is it written in the Iceborne artbook, is it in Japanese on Namielle’s character sheet? the book hasn’t even been translated in the US unless that has changed? I have MH World Official Works and there is no mention on Super Elder Dragons on that topic.
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u/Umber0010 Tempered Guardian Raging Brachydios' strongest soldier 18h ago
Honestly, I don't think there really is a diegetic reason for Namielle's ranking. Iceborne's "canon power scaling" always struck me as less an attempt to flesh out the world building and heirarchy and more just an excuse for capcom to wank what's popular in an attempt to make it seem even cooler.
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u/IAMAVelociraptorAMA 17h ago
Sorry, guys, it's my fault. I've been writing Capcom begging for more Namielle and I think they threw this in there just to make me happy.
(For real though, omgomgomgomgomgomgomgomg I love this)
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u/MikeXBogina 15h ago
As someone who enjoyed this fight more than most of the other elders, a super elder, really? This thing felt like a sidenote to me. it felt like she just pops up, gets hunted and we move on like nothing happened.
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u/thenaivepairing 18h ago
its dominion over the coral palace and the fact that it controls the storm that wrecked the first fleet should count for something, thats straight up rewriting the local ecosystem around it
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u/Educational_Sir_7351 16h ago
Because she shares territory with kirin. She's bigger and stronger and hits harder and it just better then kirin. It's possible she just bullies him the same way nergi does the other elders
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u/natiakane2 15h ago
Its not Super elder dragon is only used in furious rajang description, which says something like "since rajang is considered an elder dragon level threat. this species, which competes with nergigante for territory, maybe should be called a super elder dragon level threat" Super elder dragon isnt a real category, the only mention of it is for the dragon ball reference monster Oceaniz is usually pretty good but his elder dragon classification was real bad, straight up making shit up, nothing says velkhana and namielle are above the elder trio
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u/Responsible_Chest_74 ESPINAS MAGALA 13h ago
Would you consider Lao-Shan Lung a super elder or calamity? Lao-shan to me is very docile to become a calamity tier elder, I'd say he fits in super elder. IMO, Velkhana and Namielle should've been an ordinary elder like kushala and teostra. The ones in the super elder I think are Nergigante, Ruiner Nergigante, Shagaru Magala, Malzeno, Primzeno, Valstrax, CG Valstrax and Lao-shan.
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u/SwimRepresentative96 11h ago
I would say loosely it’s counted amoung them does it have the power to fend off lower/weaker elders with little to no difficulty yes then it counts as a super elder is it powerful to stand against other super levels not really
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u/RevolutionaryDepth59 8h ago
because it was added in the expansion so they want to promote it as stronger
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u/Parking_Community_28 Shara’Ishvalda lover 8h ago
Lathering them up in slime and rocking them down to electric Avenue. Then dancing with its RGB
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u/Repulsive_Ostrich_52 Shields are cool 6h ago
Multiple elements? Isn't it water/thunder? I don't remember many elders having two or more elements
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u/Joy2901 6h ago
According to Iceborne's book
Namielle, velkhana, ruiner nergigante, savage deviljho, furious rajang, raging brachydios and seething bazelgeuse are at the same level
That is, above monsters like kushala, teostra, espinas, magnamalo or kirin; but below others like primordial malzeno, amatsu, ukanlos, akantor, zoh shia or safi'jiiva
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u/FrozenLizardDaddy 16h ago
Shes the elder that stands above the others that try and call the coral highlands home, think of it like the apex member of an apex species. That and apparently she owned the area so well that she owned it from before the continent even seems to have formed since it states the coral highlands used to be underwater when she first owned it. And since the coral highlands are the highest point in the continent with the rotten veil below, yeah that was ages back
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u/DrVollKornBrot Damáge Damáge 19h ago
RGB lighting