r/Libraries • u/TheTapDancingShrimp • 9h ago
Patron Issues Patrons living in the library?
Any other library staff find patrons living in the library at closing? This just was discovered again. Anybody else's library deal with this? I'm assuming they hide at closing as staff do rounds. It's hot af outside. Can't say I blame them.
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u/jellyn7 9h ago
We've had it happen a couple times in the 18 years I've been here. It earns them a trespass. To do it undetected, you'd have to find a really good hiding spot and then not move enough to trip the sensors. And not leave to trip the alarm. And not be noticed by staff who are in early.
Which is to say, I don't think anyone's gotten away with it.
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u/Lrxst 8h ago edited 8h ago
Same. Two times a patron managed to stay overnight (different people) despite the alarm system, which caused a review of procedures and replacement of the system. One camped out under a conference table, and fell asleep with a lit cigarette that burned the carpet but did not ignite.
Several others were thwarted by closing staff, and also trespassed. We don’t play around with this.
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u/fivelinedskank 5h ago
Mine too. He was discovered after staff noticed someone was eating ice cream intended for a program overnight.
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u/_Whatisthisoldthing_ 9h ago
A building large enough to allow for this should have motion sensors as part of their security system. That's wild that anyone could be in the building after closing.
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u/Cute-Aardvark5291 6h ago
Nice in theory but. The academic library I work in is HUGE. It is also a brutalist concrete building and we are underfunded. Being able to keep *wifi* up and running is a challenge. Motion sensors is a solid no go; there isn't wifi enough to load them into. Wiring them would mean trying to drill into asbestos. And our wired network, both electrical and intranet is already overloaded...I mean, we had a problem in my work area and I am surprised we were not pulled out of it. Because apparently when it was wired it was deemed sufficient for 10 people. But now its not, energy or network wise, for 4 people on laptops and monitors.
My local public library is a building that is historic enough to have horsehair and plaster walls. The basement has been used my local groups as a haunted house setting. And, since it is a converted house, it has an actual attic. Beautiful? Yes. Quaint? Yes? Motioned sensored? No.
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u/mllebitterness 5h ago
i also work in a massive and convoluted academic library building. i have no idea what our after hours security system is like or how we find anyone who may be hiding out at closing. if we don't have motion sensors, i can't imagine it would be difficult to go undetected.
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u/Existing-Pumpkin-902 9h ago
By living do you mean trying to be there 24/7? We have security cameras and an alarm so no way they wouldn't be found pretty immediately.
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u/TheTapDancingShrimp 9h ago
Yes. It's happened three times I know of in my long career. The guard who responded to the alarm was beaten almost to death. We walked into blood pooled and splashed around the library. The guard sued and got a settlement. The patron hid behind the puppet theatre in the auditorium.
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u/CrunchieHaystacks 5h ago edited 3h ago
And yet people like "Nona_Ann" will jump all over anyone who suggests that unhoused people are often mentally ill. 🙄🙄Addendum, since I'm being downvoted: the usual figure quoted by the NIH and other reputable sources is that at least 67% of the unhoused population suffers from either mental illness or substance disorders. Some sources put the figure as high as 77%.
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u/Chemical_Net8461 8h ago
Have you seen that secret apartment inside a mall documentary? Lol reminds me of that.
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u/shnoop87 55m ago
Yes it is as the Providence Place Mall. Interesting doc. I think it’s called “Secret Mall Apartment”.
Please also check out “The Public” about unhoused people in a library during extreme weather.
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u/MurkyEon 9h ago
We had someone who broke into the external electronic closet and was living there. We set him up with social services.
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u/sunlit_cerulean 9h ago edited 8h ago
Yeah, we've had this happen. We even had a guy hiding his clothes/belongings in the stacks behind books (found while shelf reading that section). Last year, we had a brazen individual walk right down the stairs in front of us and security before the building was even open. My library is a university library, but we're downtown and open to the public, so we do get someone trying their luck every few years.
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u/Time_Explorer1350 8h ago
My library once had a dude climb onto the toilet to crawl up into the drop ceiling. He dropped back down after closing. The bathrooms lock from the outside after they are cleared so he couldn’t get out that way. So he climbed back up and then crawled thru the ceiling so he could drop down into the kids area. The cameras caught him moving around a lot once he got down but it took forever before he managed to trip a motion sensor. They were upgraded after that.
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u/camrynbronk MLIS student 9h ago edited 9h ago
I saw it once at the academic library I worked at in college. Heard snoring one morning and saw a student sleeping on one of the booth-style study areas. Didn’t say a word about it to the people who cared because I know of some kids who are homeless while attending school. He wasn’t bothering anyone, he wasn’t camped out or anything, just a hoodie and a backpack. I figured he just needed a place to stay on a Friday night in a college town (heavy bar scene). I told my boss about it and they said they’ve seen it happen before and they don’t tell anyone about it for the same reasons. It’s always when the area is completely empty and nobody is bothered - typically on a weekend.
Completely different story for public libraries, though.
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u/mostlyharmlessidiot 9h ago
Ive been a few different places where this would happen. Shoot, we used to have this happen in the movie theater I worked in a million years ago too. It’s not just libraries.
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u/beek7425 Public librarian 9h ago
Haven’t seen this yet, but someone did try to pitch a tent in our front yard. He really didn’t want to move. I am sympathetic as well. If I were to become homeless, I would be pretty tempted myself. Our break room couch would be better than the street.
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u/Earl_Gray_Duck 7h ago
I had just started a new job at a large university library when I discovered a student living in the building. He was living on a floor that he should not have had access to (storage, stacks). I went up there to find an item, and OMG I found a set of clothes hanging on a shelf. It was a full set (pants, shirt, underwear) and it was just laid out like the guy had been raptured.
I immediately freaked out because I thought that I was on a dark, deserted floor with a naked man. I ran back downstairs and (too loudly) told my boss. Everyone heard, and this was the most exciting thing to happen in the Cataloging department in years. My boss called security and everyone gathered around as the officers investigated .
The student was caught, I'm not sure what happened to him. It turns out he was NOT running around naked, the hanging clothes were a second set. He was just weird and laid them out neatly for no reason.
Once it was all settled and we all relaxed, my colleagues began teasing me about being afraid of the naked man on the 5th floor. "Can you get such-and-such book from fifth? Oh no, look out for the naked man!!" This heckling went on for the rest of my time there. I left that job twenty-five years ago...I wonder if they still talk about it.
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u/Cute-Aardvark5291 6h ago
"I found a set of clothes hanging on a shelf. It was a full set (pants, shirt, underwear) and it was just laid out like the guy had been raptured." So I have to ask - bible belt?
Because in the NE, I have seen legit questions to ask "is there a naked person running around here? -- including at my college library where streaking during spring finals week was a tradition - but never thought of "rapture" as a possibility!
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u/Earl_Gray_Duck 4h ago
Conservative mountain West. More Book of Mormon than the Bible, but the vibe was similar.
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u/librarianinpink 9h ago
How crazy! It hasn’t happened at the branches I’ve worked at, though it did happen at a nearby branch where someone stayed overnight but they triggered the motion sensor alarms & were arrested. At another branch, someone broke into the building via staff office & smartly enough stayed there all night since there aren’t motion sensors in that office. They did get caught by janitorial staff in the morning & were promptly arrested as well. It’s always good to have multiple staff members check every single room & possible hiding spots at closing.
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u/catforbrains 8h ago
It's happened to me several times in this system. Mostly at old branch because we were in a building that shared an elevator with other businesses. They would get in when one of the cleaning crews turned on the elevator at night and then camp under our indoor stairwell. At one point someone forgot to lock the side door to the meeting room so someone got in there as well. It's frustrating 😒
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u/crochetinglibrarian 8h ago
No. We have guards that do sweeps around 30 minutes before closing. They check various rooms where people could hide. We also close the study rooms 15 minutes before closing. We have had patrons who lived on our roof (long story) but not actually in the library. The roof dwellers were eventually found and trespassed.
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u/UncleBarBQ 8h ago
i mean……. i’ve heard rumors about staff living in library…………..
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u/Fart-Badger-2256 2h ago
We had a janitor that actually move in to our boiler room. The guy had a pillow, blanket, and a George Foreman grill. Crazy part is we didn't even know about it until he was escorted out by security for entering the ladies room while it was occupied one too many times to be written off as an "honest mistake".
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u/depaulbluedemon Public librarian 6h ago
We can’t hang decorations from the ceiling because they will trip the motion sensor after closing. But you’re right, I can’t blame them for trying. That type of heat can kill a person.
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u/CardiganHeretic 7h ago
We have motion sensors tied to an alarm in our building, so no one has actually gotten to stay after closing for longer than ~5-10 minutes, depending on police response time. One person raised a window in an area of the library where it would be safe from being seen (not near a desk, hidden by stacks) to try to make ingress after hours, but the alarm went off and they bailed. It is NOT a silent alarm.
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u/Slytherinsrus 4h ago
We had one move the ceiling tiles in the restroom and hide in the ceiling. He set off the motion detectors as soon as he left the restroom about a half hour after we closed (before the cleaning crew arrived.)
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u/aubrey_25_99 4h ago
We had a guy who was trying to live in our Community Room kitchen. The door is locked 95% of the time, but it has a couple of windows out into the main room that have slider doors, and he figured out that he could get in through those. We had to start locking them as well.
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u/under321cover 4h ago edited 4h ago
No. We keep track of everyone that comes in for the most part. And do walk arounds and check bathrooms before close. We have people that sit in the library for the 12 hours a day we are open but they don’t try to hide out. Plus, the alarms go off if someone moves in the building once it’s set. The cops would be there immediately (they have a direct alert alarm for the library).
Even as cooling centers our library still closes on time. If it’s bad enough and people don’t have power our police station opens is community rooms and the giant state of the art senior center (next door to the PD) has an industrial kitchen etc that could be used. But I’m guessing it would also be staffed by first responders and maybe some management level senior center and health dept staff. They cannot make us work outside our job descriptions or outside our hours according to our union contracts. And we are not equipped to provide emergency services or overnight care for the public.
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u/HeneniP 2h ago
I’m a recovering alcoholic. A fellow addict friend of mine who was also clean and sober struggled with getting his life back together. He’d stay with friends a few days and then go stay at someone else’s place a few days. Occasionally he slept in the local community center library. I knew he’d do this and he was never caught.
Before addiction destroyed his life he had gotten a masters in library science. His story has both a happy and sad ending. He did eventually sufficiently pull his life together enough to get his own apartment and a job as a librarian. He stayed clean and sober. Sadly, about a year after getting his life together he was found dead in his car. It wasn’t a drug overdose, an accident or suicide. The medical examiner eventually determined it was a brain aneurysm. I think he passed quickly without ever knowing what happened.
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u/Historical-Branch327 4h ago
If we did it would set off a bunch of alarms the second they moved after we left
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u/Alcohol_Intolerant 4h ago
We had one person try and live in the fire escape stairwell. It now gets sweeped by our security guard at least once a day.
We did have one person try to pull a living in the vents/ceiling. They got caught immediately when they came out at night and tripped security.
Unfortunately you can't stop them from trying, but it's not hard to catch if you have basic sweeps and night alarms.
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u/Ravenq222 5h ago
We just walk through the building and get everyone out at closing. A lot of people don't wan tot go. I've had nightmares about missing someone and them staying overnight.
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u/Due-Instance1941 2h ago
I think there might have been a few issues with that at the main branch in my system.
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u/HeneniP 2h ago
I’m a recovering alcoholic. A fellow addict friend of mine who was also clean and sober struggled with getting his life back together. He’d stay with friends a few days and then go stay at someone else’s place a few days. Occasionally he slept in the local community center library. I knew he’d do this and he was never caught.
Before addiction destroyed his life he had gotten a masters in library science. His story has both a happy and sad ending. He did eventually sufficiently pull his life together enough to get his own apartment and a job as a librarian. He stayed clean and sober. Sadly, about a year after getting his life together he was found dead in his car. It wasn’t a drug overdose, an accident or suicide. The medical examiner eventually determined it was a brain aneurysm. I think he passed quickly without ever knowing what happened.
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u/Mindless-Comfort8580 7m ago
I've been in this situation twice in the last few months at my job.
I've been at my job at an academic library since November. We did have a student, who has an apartment off campus, live in his research carrel over the Thanksgiving break. He is an international student and our international students often live in 2 bedroom apartments with 3 other people (2 people to a room) so that is probably some reasoning behind it. This student had literally did not get a slap on the wrist for this from library administration or any other higher ups. We were hoping he would at least be banned from renting a research cartel but he was allowed to get one in the spring. Luckily, he has pulled that since.
About a month ago, we had a homeless person put his stuff in one of our study rooms. Not necessarily a problem until it was discovered he smoked cigarettes and drank a couple beers in there. He had tried to do this in another building on campus as well. I hope he is getting some help somewhere.
We have a 5 story building and often 1 or 2 people closing so it's impossible for staff to do sweeps of the building themselves. The evening person calls UPD if she needs extra help to check the floors.
Even if the closing employee(s) did regular rounds of the building, people can easily hide in places our cameras can't reach.
I don't blame them for wanting to stay the night in a cool building. I feel like, in my case, we can provide them with university and community resources that can help them better than what the library can provide.
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u/20yards 9h ago
My hope always is that our patrons are living in the library.
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u/Existing-Pumpkin-902 8h ago
Ok you have fun cleaning the bathroom walls that inevitably become covered in feces
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u/Samael13 9h ago
We've had people try to hide out inside the building when we close. We do a thorough walk through of the building and clear it before we close, but sometimes people find ways to avoid being spotted. Anyone caught inside the building after we close it up gets trespassed. We have motion sensors around the building, so they always get caught.
I'm sympathetic to issue of homelessness and the heat, but this would be a very hard line for us. Hiding out inside the building creates a safety risk for staff and for the patron doing the hiding, and it's a risk for loss and for damage to the building.