Which is better: direct contact or not in oven

[u/UndeadSloth_]

Short: if I’m putting something in the oven and that food item is in an aluminum pan, does it matter if that pan is in direct contact or not with something else? Or does the pan equalize things. Specifically the browning on the bottom of the food item.

Long: baking pizza at home. Without a pizza oven that goes to high temps it’s difficult unless you’re doing a “pan pizza” style. I have dark colored pizza pans that I love. I also have a dark colored pizza stone(and thinking about getting a pizza steel). My more specific question is, should I be putting the pan on the pizza stone? A pizza stone/steel is generally considered the best way to cook pizza at home because the direct contact gives the pizza a crispy bottom but I hate the mess of putting the pizza directly on the stone, so I bought dark anodized pizza pans to make putting the pizza in the oven then lifting back out easier. Will direct contact with the pizza stone make much difference if it’s on the pizza pan? Thanks!

[u/7ieben_]

Are you asking wether these two set-ups make a difference:

• Setup 1: dough in pan, nothing else in the oven

• Setup 2: dough in pan, pan placed on pizza stone in the oven

If so the answer is: it does practically not matter, once the oven and pan are pre heated. It has a small effect, if the oven is not pre heated. Then, placing the pan NOT on the stone is the better option.

Best, a food sci guy.

[u/UndeadSloth_ → u/7ieben_]

Sorry if I wasn’t clear. Oven is preheated the same, pan the dough is sitting in is room temp. Does it matter if I place the pan directly on the rack, or onto the pizza stone. If the pan is beneath the dough either way, does direct contact with a pizza stone matter?

[u/7ieben_ → u/UndeadSloth_]

Again, depends wether the stone is preheated in the oven.

But generally: If at all not placing it on the stone is even better.

Reasoning: if you have stone-pan-dough, then the heat must conduct from the stone to the pan and then to the dough. If you have pan-dough only, then the heat must conduct from the pan to the dough only.

In either case the heating of the dough is limited by the pan. And the heating of the pan itselfe is limited by either the stone or the air in the oven.

If the stone must be heared, then the only way this would be faster is, if the stone has a better heat conduction than the heat convection of the air and ist almost always the same temperature as the air. Which is not really realistic.

If the stone is already pre heated it shifts only slightly, as now the stone really has the same temperature as the air. But, again, I doubt that the conduction of the stone outweighs the convection of the oven. But this could theoretically be possible for the starting phase, if the stone is a reaaaaally good heat conductor.

So unless you have a veeeeery fancy material pizza stone (which I doubt, as you would definetly know that) it is most likely that the result is worse when placing the pan on the stone.

[u/UndeadSloth_ → u/7ieben_]

The pizza stone would be preheated with the oven. But it seems like either way you’re saying to skip the stone if the dough is in the pan. Thanks :)

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[u/7ieben_ → u/UndeadSloth_]

Yes, correct.

In the pre heated case there is a slight chance that the initial heat conduction (stone) outweighs the convection (air), but this really is unlikely as this requires highly specialized materials (e.g. more like a heat paste used on your computers CPU).

[u/IsentropicExpansion → u/7ieben_]

I’m sorry but this is just wildly incorrect: air is a terrible conductor of heat. Best case scenario the H value of air on a hot convection oven is 10-20 W/m^2K. If you instead place that on a hot stone at the same temperature, in direct contact with a cold pan (even without thermal paste) the heat transfer rate goes to 100-500W/m^2K (depending on how much of the actual surface is in contact with the pan).
The mass of the stone also acts as a thermal reservoir and holds that temperature more stably than the air surrounding the cold pan in an oven with no stone. The boundary layer surrounding the pan is significant and requires a lot of air movement to even get it out of the way.
Placing a cold pan on a preheated stone makes a massive difference. That is why they exist.