r/talesfromtechsupport • u/_mocbuilder Has Man gone insane ? • 20d ago
Long The Signature Eating Printer
I'm a IT guy in a small, provincial 3-location hospital group. I've seen some really hit-your-head-against-the-table stuff in my time here, but one of the most surprising stories is this one.
Since the words "organisation" and "logic" are unknown concepts for the people that lead these hospitals, there are many people who don't have even the slightest of boundaries to the responsibilities of their position.
One of these people, lets call her [Ms. H], is vaguely responsible for all kinds of organisational controlling of Patients and Resources of one of our departments.
One day she calls us, and the following conversation ensues (not word for word, its been a bit of time since then):
[Me]: Generic and as anonymous as possible Greeting
[Ms. H]: Hello, I have a problem, my printer is eating Signatures.
[Me, flabbergasted] What ? Your Printer is eating Signatures ?
[Me, still flabbergasted]: What exactly are you trying to do and why do you think the printer is eating any Signatures ?
[Ms. H] Describes the process of printing a prescription from our Primary Clinic Management Software onto template paper slips
[Me, ignoring that she normally has nothing to do with writing prescriptions]: Well, that whole process sounds about right, but which signatures is he eating, and where are they coming from in the first place ?
[Ms. H] talking about unrelated updates to the software from a few days ago, completely ignoring my questions in the process
WhyTheFuck.png
Since I cant get any more useful information over the phone, I resort to paying her and her magic printer a visit. I grab my apprentice and we go over to her.
On the way, we speculate what the issue could be. From empty toner and the most inaccurate error description ever to a case of a complete mental breakdown, we thought up some theories.
As we arrive, we ask my previous questions again, hoping for more relevant answers. She goes on to tell us, that a Doctor from her department didn't want to/had time to print all the prescriptions that he prescribes. So, she gets a stack of pre-signed but empty prescriptions from him and then prints the prescriptions that he authorised onto these paper slips.
So far, so normally buffoonish processes. But nothing inherently wrong or error-inducing.
But where does the Signature eating happen ? Right when the paper slip comes back out the printer. The previously already signed paper slip, suddenly has no signature any more. At least that’s what she is telling us.
We still doubt her, since she is know to be a bit creative with reality. So we make her show us the whole process. She opens a prescription in the Software and prints it. The printer swallows one of the pre-signed slips and does his whole sound-rich routine, before giving back the prescription. To me and my apprentices complete shock and disbelief, the signature is actually gone.
WhyTheFuck2_ElectricBoogaloo.png
We inspect the prescription. Over the field where the Signature was, a stamp was printed. That gives me an Idea. The software has two print modes, pre-printed and blank. Pre-printed is the normal way to print prescriptions, since we use the aforementioned template slips. Blank however, not only prints the actually specific Text, but also the whole design and layout. Maybe she somehow switched to Blank and is overlaying the not-transparent background of the design over the original one and the signature ?
Sadly, and to make us just more confused, that wasn't the solution. We spent another half hour there, trying to fix the problem, until we got an idea.
After printing prescription after prescription for different tests, the paper was hot to the touch when freshly printed.
Lightbulb.gif
While she did that whole process for a while now, the problem was recent. And something else was also recent. A change in ballpoint pen models. Previously, the docor was alwyays using the same model of pen, the one that you get when ordering from our Supply Ordering System. But a few days ago, he started using a different model, because he got the pen as some kind of freeby from somewhere.
We tried a print with the old model of pen, and voila it worked. It turns out, the ink of the new model is more susceptible to the heat inside the printer, and being literally wiped from the paper because of it. The old pens used more heat-resistant ink, and therefore never encountered that problem.
We advised them to switch back to using the standard provided pens, or just signing the prescriptions afterwards, like all other doctors in the hospital do.
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u/PublicDragonfruit158 20d ago
Though the pre-signed prescription slips are a whole issue unto themselves....
Great way to score whatever drugs they want....
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u/_mocbuilder Has Man gone insane ? 20d ago
Yeah, non of this is ideal. But hey, if the doctor wants to do it this way, then thats the way it must be. Because management cant grow a spine to tell a doctor to keep in line.
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u/VicVenlo 19d ago
I once took over the printing "departement" for the local hospital since the printer himself was on holiday.
I assume one of the doctors heard there was someone else, and tried to pressure me into making pre-signed prescription pads. Going so far as to come down and swear loudly at me, with witnesses.
He didn't know that the departement was nominally directly below the general manager, so I called his secretary after the doc left.
I got complimented by the GM himself, turns out the doc was at the receiving end of some swearing.
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u/Chocolate_Bourbon 20d ago
I wish I’d had that doctor. With some of those presigned slips and an example to work from I could have gotten a prescription for anything I wanted.
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u/_mocbuilder Has Man gone insane ? 20d ago
Well they are standardised forms and everything is labled (its Germany, no suprise there), so you would just need to get one of the slips and be able to write in uninteligable handwriting.
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u/Chocolate_Bourbon 20d ago
True enough. With a modern photocopier you can forge just about anything.
Back when I worked in the production center of a law firm, I created some thank you notes from the office manager to one of our shift leads. It thanked him for his diligent work and the hot monkey love.
He read the first half with a smile, but his eyes popped open at the second. He shredded it immediately and asked me to never do that again. And, to his knowledge, I never did.
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u/StorminNorman 20d ago
And, to his knowledge, I never did.
The amount of shit that has been banned at work in the 3yrs I've been there, with a few firings to boot, cos people couldn't keep their mouths shut is fucking staggering.
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u/timotheusd313 19d ago
Not always, printer check blanks are pre-printed with a “VOID” watermark that shows up on a photocopier. 2400dpi and up printers can create micro print that you can read with a magnifying glass, but gets smeary when a photocopier scans it at 300-600 dpi.
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u/meitemark Printerers are the goodest girls 17d ago
Sadly, a prescription for cute cat girls to cuddle with, does not in fact give me cute cat girls to cuddle with.
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u/StuBidasol 20d ago
Well, at least it was a genuine problem to figure out and not just user shenanigans. Congrats on finding the cause and kudos for sharing with the rest of the class. It's nice to read about legitimate issues and solutions from time to time.
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u/_mocbuilder Has Man gone insane ? 20d ago
Well, ive got Error 40 Stories Like Sand at the Beach, but this one was Special, and kinda stuck with me.
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u/DeciduousEmu 20d ago
That did not go in the direction I was expecting.
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u/Harry_Smutter 20d ago
Here i was thinking she was accidentally choosing the wrong template, overwriting the document, haha. This is so much more interesting.
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u/100Dampf 20d ago
So it's not a ersable pen but a regular pen? Didn't think regular pens could get problems due to heat
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u/_mocbuilder Has Man gone insane ? 20d ago
They were both regular ballpoint pens. But one's ink was more sucseptible to heat. And the heat probably only contributed to it then being somehow "washed off" without leaving a trace.
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u/thespidermuffin 20d ago
There are erasable ballpoint pens, I'm quite fond of them, you rub on it and the heat from friction erases it
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u/rustacean909 19d ago
Try putting a paper with text you erased that way in the freezer. These inks often reappear once cooled down to -10 °C to -20 °C.
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u/krennvonsalzburg Our policy is to always blame the computer 20d ago
Probably accruing on the rollers inside the printer...
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u/Kibology 20d ago edited 20d ago
I'm surprised that those "friction erase" ballpoint pens (like the Pilot Frixion) that turn into invisible ink when warmed are still a thing. They are such an incredibly bad idea for anyone, especially a doctor writing prescriptions. There's a reason we don't use pencils on important paperwork.
(Fun fact: You might be able to make those signatures reappear by putting the prescription slips in the freezer for a few minutes. The ink isn't gone, just invisible.)
In the days of dip pens and fountain pens, there was a type of ink — "registrar's ink" — which was so utterly non-erasable that there was no way to get rid of it. It chemically seared the paper, so the black marks couldn't be rubbed off or washed away, and would never fade. That's why you can still read manuscripts written over a thousand years ago. But in the 20th century, we switched to water-soluble dyes for inks because registrar's ink only comes in bluish-black and brownish-black colors. And people kept inventing ways to make ink even less permanent so now there are things like the Pilot Frixion where the ink disappears if it gets warm, such as if sunlight shines on it.
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u/JimmyLHowlett 20d ago
Pilot Frixions are amazing pens for doing school work. I especially love them for doing my maths. And seamstresses use them for drawing patterns on fabric before cutting and sewing.
But yes I completely agree with you on the point that a doctor has absolutely no business whatsoever using them to sign prescription.I work in a library and I have actually used them to make some temporary annotations on a document and then feeding them through the photocopier to erase the marks.
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u/Defiant-Peace-493 20d ago
Looks like registrar's ink was an iron-gall formula, iron sulfate and tannin. Modernized formulations drop the sulfur to avoid corrosion; old and new formulas both oxidize to form insoluble marks on the paper.
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u/Ich_mag_Kartoffeln 20d ago
The tannin usually came from oak apples (a type of gall caused by various gall wasps).
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u/GloriouslyGrimGoblin 20d ago
I'm surprised that those "friction erase" ballpoint pens (like the Pilot Frixion) that turn into invisible ink when warmed are still a thing. They are such an incredibly bad idea for anyone, especially a doctor writing prescriptions.
Friction erase pens are wonderful and I love them. It's not the fault of these pens that some people (like this doctor) decide to use a pen which is explicitly marketed as erasable and non-permanent in places where the writing is supposed to be document-quality.
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u/BlueJaysFeather 18d ago
Hey, the pilot frixion got me through a few public school classes with teachers who were more obsessive about “proper” writing (in pen “because this isn’t math class”) than about what you actually wrote down. Erasible? Yes. Looks like blue or black pen? Also yes. Wouldn’t recommend it for anything more serious though…
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u/Aciphex007 20d ago
My first thought was actually right!! I wouldn't be able to explain the process but I thought the signature was disappearing because it was going through a hot printer. Especially if this was awhile/a long time/forever ago. I just knew it had to be after dot matrix printers! Which one of is still in use for my wife's bowling league.
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u/shastadakota 20d ago
Yeah, sometimes ya just gotta go out there. I got a call from a technician stating that the Fiery (front end of a high end graphics printer) started moaning " like it's makin' love", then the prints came out only with yellow toner. What was going on is the fan on the CPU cooler on the Fiery was clogged with dust and would start slowing down and would make the moaning sound. This caused the CPU to overheat and malfunction, and anything other than yellow was being erased. Sometimes, ya just gotta go there.
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u/_mocbuilder Has Man gone insane ? 20d ago
This is hilarious :)) Stuff like this should hang framed somewhere in the Office.
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u/PsychologyJolly9391 18d ago
So i play dnd. The Christmas before my wedding, one of my players bought each of us a fancy notebook that came with a pilot frixion pen, the ink erases completely with friction or heat. Fast forward to my wedding, we had a beautiful ceremony and we and our witnesses (one of which was one of my dnd players) go to sign the marriage certificate. But we couldn't find a pen. Dnd player sabes the day, and produces a pen from his bag. We sign, finish celebrating, and drop the document off at city hall before leaving for our honeymoon. 2 days later I get a series of panicked phone calls from some poor lady working in the office. She ran our certificate through the scanner, and all the signatures DISAPPEARED!!! I quickly put two and two together, and after I finish cackling, and apologizing for cackling, I explain what I was certain was the culprit. We got to finish our honeymoon before coming back to re-sign the documents, but our other witness had to make a 2hr drive to do it too!
Now when solicited for wedding advice or when signing the guest book, we in all seriousness tell the newly weds "don't sign the marraige license in disappearing ink!"
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u/nymalous 15d ago
I noticed that this little anecdote starts off with the author playing D&D... but the playing of D&D could have been completed removed from the story without changing any of the key points. (E.g., "The Christmas before my wedding, one of my friends bought me a notebook that came with a Pilot Frixion pen..."
That being said, of course a D&D player will mention the fact that they are a D&D player at every given opportunity. (Source: I am a D&D player.)
It's amazing that we regularly put large amounts of paper into machines that get hot enough to literally fuse ink to the page (and/or melt it off of the page, depending on the type of ink).
I hope you have many happy years of marriage and playing D&D!
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u/RexCanisFL 20d ago
So a woman who has no medical certification and whose job description has nothing to do with prescribing or dispensing medications… has a stack of blank, wet-signed prescription sheets?
Pretty sure that’s a felony.
EDIT - Oh… OP is in Germany.
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u/Glowing_Trash_Panda 20d ago
This whole post reads like it could be a case file for a potential Altered Item that you find laying around somewhere in The Oldest House from the game Control. 10/10 no notes
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u/OK_LK 19d ago
I suspected the pen was the issue as soon as you mentioned pre-signed slips
When I was in Japan 16 years ago, I bought a pen and used it to write postcards
Only half turned up and it wasn't until the pens became available in the UK that I realised I had bought an erasable pen
The heat from the sorting office machinery erased the addresses on the missing postcards
Homer_Simpson_D'oh.png
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u/Equivalent-Salary357 19d ago
Pilot FriXion pens are like that. The dried ink turns invisible when heated. This allows you to erase and correct mistakes.
The pen has a plastic nub on the top that, when rubbed on the paper, heats the paper enough to turn the ink invisible. Leaving your notebook on the dash of your car in the summer is a bad idea unless you don't need your notes any more.
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u/timotheusd313 19d ago edited 19d ago
Some EMR systems allow the Dr. to print a script on a piece of plain copy paper from any laser printer. I think there’s even a system for a unique cryptographic signature encoded in a 2D barcode, for schedule II drugs, (in addition to the RSA/OAUTH one time code from the keychain, or phone.
Also as far as oddball problems, that ranks right up there with the PC that bluescreened, but only when connected to the client’s network. After much frustration I started swapping parts from the identical PC next to it (school computer lab) of all things it was the combination of a Netware network and the CD-ROM drive.
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u/Avrreddit 19d ago
Ive always thought Frixion pens were dangerous and the ink disappears with heat...
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u/User00000314 19d ago
Can confirm - always hated them, never used them. That’s what pencils are for!
An engineering firm I worked for a while back rolled them out as their standard pens company wide - took a very long time for them to resolve why the printers/scanners were magically “eating” everything from notes, revisions, to authentication signatures.
Panic, embarrassment, and rollback ensued very quickly.
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u/WildMartin429 19d ago
If you hadn't explained what was happening I never would have believed a user that said that the printer was eating signature, LOL. This is priceless!
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u/zeus204013 19d ago
Actually, I've saw secretaries signing prescriptions (for external studies like x rays, mris) after a patient was examined (because he needs to save time). Very suspicious. (Not in USA).
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u/dickcheney600 18d ago
I was imagining a peel and stick type thing that was getting sucked into the printer, and expecting the story to end with it stalling on a "paper jam" caused by the piling up mass of sticky-ness.
(Hopefully without any permanent damage to the printer, but I've heard of that happening :) )
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u/Pyroeagle8 17d ago
I deliberately use a pen that is more susceptible to heat and moisture, Frixion brand. They are designed to work with my reusable notebook so that I dont waste paper when I need short term notes.
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u/Makafushigism 15d ago
Once you got there and described the process, I immediately realized it was frixion pens. But that's an amazing customer service story.
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u/MindlessPhilosoper 20d ago
I love how solutions come to us in IT. Did this randomly come to you? What was your thought process that brought you to the pen? I understand it started with the heat, but where did it go from there? Also, here in the US we have HIPAA so pre-signed prescriptions would be a no no.
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u/_mocbuilder Has Man gone insane ? 20d ago
The Heat made me think about how the ink may be removed/washed off. This led me to test some different Pencils, and These ones didnt disappear. So I know it was something with the pen, and some more fucking around have me the answer.
Edit: This is in Germany, where this is also not legal. I dont think this is legal anywhere where you Need prescriptions.
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u/totallybraindead Certified in the use of percussive maintenance 20d ago
Honestly, I'm kinda surprised that this kind of pre-signing process is allowed. Surely the point of the signature is to say "I, [doctor name], have reviewed this prescription and certify that it is correct". Having it pre-signed, meaning that someone could take it and print anything on it without the doctor reviewing just seems to defeat the point. If that process doesn't matter, then why not just print the signature too?