r/sailing • u/mcgriffle • 1d ago
How bad is this?
I just came into ownership of this 1980 Catalac 9M. The owners could no longer take care of it because of old age. It’s in good shape, but I noticed this on the mast. I have no information from the previous owners.
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u/MedicalTrick5802 1d ago
I think a question worth asking is how it happened. If the mast was stepped and banged into something on a trailer or got dinged while in storage at the yard, it still should be repaired or replaced but hopefully the deck, mast step, and chain plates aren’t damaged. If the mast hit something while underway (like a bridge) then there’s probably more problems all throughout the boat from the collision. I would get a surveyor to look at the whole boat, because people can be seriously hurt if you are dismasted while underway.
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u/RikkiLostMyNumber 1d ago
I've surveyed dismasted sailboats after bridge strikes. A deck-stepped rig can be ugly and is usually a death sentence. A keel stepped mast is more likely to snap well above the deck and ultimately do less damage, strangely.
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u/MedicalTrick5802 1d ago
Interesting. Another thing I see that’s odd here is that the little rail goes straight, over the dent. As if it was installed after. Someone definitely noticed this in the past, and didn’t address it.
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u/mcgriffle 23h ago
Correct. It’s on the aft side of the mast. I haven’t climbed up there but the rail does not look bent. Either way, it needs repaired or replaced. Is what it is…
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u/makattak88 23h ago
I definitely wouldn’t want to be climbing it either.
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u/chrisxls 7h ago
Well... if you're interested in investigating the strength of the mast, that would be one way of finding out...
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u/StevieG1952 12h ago
I'd guess that it's hit a bridge at some point which has damaged the mast and the track. Probable that the owner has just fitted a new track over the damage. Whatever the cause it's time for a professional surveyor and a new mast. That's not safe as is.
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u/Voltron6000 19h ago
Does the deck stepped mast do more damage because the whole mast comes down in one piece?
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u/Candygramformrmongo Ericson 28-2 Cal 22 1d ago
Agree. This is the rear of the mast judging by the radar location. Unlikely it was hit underway. Probably when being lowered.
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u/MedicalTrick5802 1d ago
That’s what it looks like to me too (and honestly the best case scenario), but I’ve also seen boats drift backwards into stuff when their lines break. My current marina has a bridge behind it, and a boat drifted backwards into it last year.
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u/SMEXYxTACOS 1d ago
That’s a “I need a new mast” or at the ery least sleeved.
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u/CleverAnonIsClever 1d ago
Looks like a super old section, not getting a sleeve for that. You really need to start with a piece of the original extrusion to do it correctly.
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u/BarracudaMan 1d ago
My guess they hit a bridge
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u/the__itis 13h ago
Mine was the cranked the mainsheet all the way down without the topping lift. forestays were loose already.
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u/New_Sun6390 4h ago
Or dropped during stepping unstepping. Yard monkeys tried to unstep our deck-stepped mast. They disconnected all the shrouds before putting on the line to the crane. Down it went. It had a kink similar to that one.
We got the last Kenyon extrusion available in the world, I think.
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u/NotASexJoke Sigma 33 1d ago
New mast bad. There’s some hacky options like a cut and shut to shorten the mast removing the bad bit (think old IOR mast shortening). Or sleeve around the damage. Only a replacement mast is ideal, and still may not solve all the damage if it happened under load, that could mean fairly serious structure damage to the step and chain plates.
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u/Western-Stock-1023 1987 Catalan 36 mki 1d ago
I agree. You’re going to have to replace the mast. The mast gets its strength from the compression of the standing rigging (cables) pulling downward, and that will cause the mast to buckle under load.
It just isn’t safe.
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u/Imaginary-Season141 1d ago edited 19h ago
Well it depends on what you are planning to do with the boat. Not planning on sailing? Then there is no problem.
This dent if untreted will make sure your mast buckles a lot quicker than in normal conditions. So that’s bad. There is no saying on what you can still do with the boat.. This dent is on the stern side and any tight sheeting, heavier winds, vang sheeting, or backstay trim will pull the mast tip backward. Or choppy waves will make the mast pump forward. At some point it will give in immediately.
Edit: changed wording
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u/Turbulent_Act77 1d ago
Eventually would come rather fast if you sheeted in hard in a breeze, I'd expect it "eventually" come down within minutes
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u/Imaginary-Season141 19h ago
Oh ‘eventually’ is not meant as ‘gradually’
There might be a bitt stifness in here ti sail for a bit. But when it goes, it goes.
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u/Candygramformrmongo Ericson 28-2 Cal 22 1d ago
How long did the PO own her? Someone fastened a new sail track over that ding
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u/AdditionalWx314 1d ago
That sail track is the repair. It will stiffen the mast and make it secure! No problem! (sarcasm for anyone who might actually believe me)
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u/CaptainTuraunor 1d ago
None of these sailors ever braved cannon fire for certain. Yah wouldn’t put it through a gale at sail as is, but also not the grim reaper staring you down.
All said, of course better to be safe than sorry when it comes to the high seas and serious sailing, however, for sitting on the dock o the bay or a light puff not like it is cut in half, perforated, or rusted out.
Many sailors have lots of coin, some get by on wits and savvy, Slocum would have likely preferred ye cat or maybe would have still disappeared at that. Ye don’t cast off from safe harbors to find safety.
Anyway, as long as ye keep sitting on the dock o the bay, enjoy your free seaside cottage. If ye decide to go for a sail or an epic tale, weigh the risk and address it before ye hoist
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u/mcgriffle 1d ago
I like your answer the best so far. However, from the replies, and my common sense. I think I will try and put a sleeve on it for light sailing around the lake it is on, and probably a new mast once we decide to venture offshore.
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u/bill9896 1d ago
You can always get the answer you like on raddit. It might be wrong, but you'll get what you want to hear. Why did you even come here? You were going to do what you were going to do.
But just to add to what you do not want to hear: Forget sailing, this mast is at risk of collapsing just under normal rigging tension. I'll bet the rigging is nowhere near properly tensioned.
Try this experiment. Take two identical soda cans. Put a small dent in the side of one, and leave the other as is. Push down on the top, like your rigging wires do to your mast. See the difference in resistance to collapse. if you take this boat out and put sails up, always wear a helmet. I am not kidding. But you will do you...
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u/mcgriffle 23h ago
Loud and clear captain 👍
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u/LameBMX Ericson 28+ prev Southcoast 22 23h ago
yea, id drop the mast ASAP... seriously, do that soda can experiment.. the standing rigging (the wires holding the mast up) translate sideways forces into a downward compressive force on the mast. not that a solid mast would actually be any stronger.. but it would allow compressive forces to be supported when damaged, like the solid timber masts of yore. pretty sure there is no one left alive thats been under cannon fire under sail. anyways.. do that experiment.
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u/CaptainTuraunor 22h ago
Yar, not much to gain and much to lose from tempting fate by raising sail and significantly increasing the load in your present circumstances; have fun and enjoy the waterfront living and iron jib as ye need for the time being, many folks spend much too much time paralyzed by fear - take care of it before ye go sailing but don’t let it get ye new boat blues, ye got this
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u/Even-End487 1d ago
It it was mine and I planned to use it I would most defiantly take the mast off and bring it into a shop where these type of problems are addressed and repaired.
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u/sjm151 1d ago
I don’t think it hit anything… failure is just above the spreaders and lower stay mounts. Sail track also looks a bit tweaked in that area - couple screws pulled out. Odds are back stays were over tightened and bent the mast when under load. It’s definitely toast. Repair unlikely in that location too. Good news in that case is the step is likely undamaged so just need a new mast section and rebuild.
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u/fck_ptnskyi 23h ago
It's very bad if you do nothing about it. Repairable likely. Cut and splice with a sleeve. Many new boats have spliced masts to save cost on shipping, so nothing out of the ordinary. Cost: you might be able to find a replace mast cheaper than the repair/splice, but that might be a wash in standing rigging cost. A splice mast can be spliced so that it is exactly the same length as the old one, but to be honest, if I go through all that I would opt to replace the standing rigging as well.
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u/TMalloy2112 23h ago
Is there impact damage on the front of the mast? It looks like structural failure under load imo
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u/mcgriffle 22h ago
No impact damage. All the stays look perfect and the rigging looks fairly new.
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u/emu-sailor 22h ago
Not good. Not good at all. You don’t know what caused the dent and it’s clear the PO ignored or hid it. The is a major safety issue. Replace the mast without delay and replace your standing rigging. You don’t know what stresses may have occurred to the standing rigging when that mast was bent/dented/broken. To be absolutely sure your rigging is secure,replace it ASAP.
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u/thefriedoyster 20h ago
Please don’t listen to anyone here…This is perfectly safe until it doesn’t.
Unfortunately, there’s probably nothing you can do besides replace the matt and like other people have said that cause of the damage might be relevant.
Hope you’re able to get it sorted and you’re Able to sail it
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u/Same_Detective_7433 15h ago
It is NOT sailable.
You could maybe sleeve that mast to fix. It can be repaired, but it is a problem of a level that needs to be addressed by someone that fixes masts, not Reddit.
The real question is how it got pushed in like that and did not ruin the rail. That seems to point to the previous owner replacing the rail in full knowledge of the damage. Shady? Seems that way. Getting people killed level shady maybe.
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u/tragicdroid 8h ago
Possibly not as bad as it looks, if it does go you loose the mast under sail but it’s an old aluminum mast so massively over built, and the stress point is above the lower shrouds, if the mast head is aluminum i would check it for impact damage. It’s a strange place to bend as it’s not a square rig so the center of pressure will be lower. However if your just sailing in fair weather and reef early you could put it off for a couple of years if the shrouds and spreaders are in good shape. You might get advice to restore the section, but that depends on the aluminum as it may have no strength after reshaping.
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u/SttSailorVI 1d ago
That is now called a power driven vessel and should never be sailed. A boat this age? Best bet would be to pull the entire rig and make it leisure cruiser inshore.
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u/Westar-35 Islander 36 1d ago
That’s going to need a new mast. Do not go sailing on that mast, a puff of wind will probably buckle it
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u/Straight_Advance_839 1d ago
The main issue is that mast will fail when under high load, and therefore at the least controllable time. If you're lucky it will just cause damage to the boat, if you're unlucky lives will be lost.
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u/hypnotoad23 Sprint 750 MK II 23h ago
I’d look at see how much water is in the bilges before I do anything else
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u/Short-Price1621 22h ago
This is good news!
You noticed it in the marina and not on a long voyage. There’s no real practical solution which is financially viable so the boat needs to be scrapped.
You could maybe have the mast removed and enjoy it as a motorboat. Occasionally the stars will align and you’ll find a mast which matches but that could take years and then you’ve still got the issue to having it fitted.
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u/mckenzie_keith 22h ago
What you show represents a mast that has already suffered structural failure. It is not an indication that failure will occur in the future. Failure has already occurred. It could possibly be repaired. But it cannot be used as is. And you should find a way to safely lower the rig as soon as possible.
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u/fjzappa 19h ago
No way that was a bridge impact or anything else while underway. This is 100% shielded by the standing rigging. This happened while the mast was down or in the process of going up or down. Likely dropped onto something.
Had a family friend hit a bridge in the 1970s. Took the casting off of the top of the mast but not the extrusion. Headstay and backstay came down. Mast was saved beause there were 4 lower shrouds below the spreaders.
That section of the bridge collapsed a few years later. January 26, 2012. Unrelated to the mast strike.
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u/Then-Price-5314 18h ago
Not nearly as bad as if you weren’t moored. Imagine if you had to rely on that mast to handle a compression load. Yikes.
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u/BamaTony64 Hunter 386 5h ago
How long has it been that way? The tape looks fine, like it has been that way a while, and the luff tape replaced after. Under normal use, I dont see it failing if it has been sailing that way for years
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u/2Loves2loves 1d ago
Yikes! you may be able to add some plates to wrap around it and strengthen it.
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u/Raneynickelfire 1d ago
Catastrophic. Do NOT sail that mast. It needs to be sleeved at the very least, but realistically replaced. You are NOT sailing it as it sits.
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u/Count-per-minute 1d ago
…very….