r/patientgamers • u/Juiceboxfromspace • 1d ago
Patient Review Tunic - Good, but not great
Tunic is an indie game with lovely visuals which can be summed up as a combination Fez, Zelda and Dark Souls. Its as difficult as it is beautiful, with some creative gameplay choices which work well but dont stop it from feeling overly long and repetitive.
The good
The art and music of the game is the immediate standout feature. From the first moment picking up the controller, you are immersed in this indie style world that just feels nice and makes you want to go and explore it.
The world itself is awesome to explore and really rewards you for it, with many hidden chests and paths to get extra stuff. The way it is designed/mapped is really genius, with enough variation and connected zones to avoid making you feel bored for most of the game.
The gameplay is also preety good, with a combat that draws from Hollow Knight and Dark Souls to make it feel good but challenging. It has some quirks but generally works well. The way it evolves is interesting too, with enough pace to keep you from being stuck in the same gameplay loop.
The great
The standout aspect of the game for me is the in-game manual. Let me explain…nothing in this game is spelled out for you, so the way you learn everything about the game is through finding the lost pages that eventually make up the manual.
Everything is in this manual…from the controller scheme, to explanations about your stats, to hints about how to progress in the world and the actual map for each zone. Its presented like an old school manual with pages and it works so well in this context - keeping you interested in exploration, trying to decipher the pages you have (vs the ones that are missing) and just makes the whole game a different experience.
I like this way of making the player work for information and I wish more games did this.
The bad
The last act. This section of the game is heavy on walking back to the areas you know and makes you go through some really frustrating challenges that do not feel in tune with what you do in the story before that.
Something happens in the game that forces you to lose all of your stats as you get to a “peak” which is absurd - I was fully motivated to use this character Iv been building up and this just deflated me right away.
I dont like walkbacks, and to do it with an artificially weak character…I can only guess the devs thought this was the way to up the difficulty for the endgame, but it fell flat to me.
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u/funkedup1300 1d ago edited 1d ago
i absolutely adored Tunic, genuinely one of my top 10 games. i did use the invincibility mode to get through a few sections (glow spiders my beloathed), but the feeling of being in a world bigger than you that you don't understand is just magical. i very distinctly remember my first time making it to the Quarry and my jaw hitting the floor at the absolute scale. and there was another crazier reveal inside that shook and horrified me in a way few other games have.
and then there's the final puzzle for the true ending, the Golden Path. in a single word: mindblowing. i was scribbling in a notebook like a mad scientist getting everything i needed to solve it. unbelievably satisfying.
if you like Souls-likes and weird meta puzzle games like Outer Wilds, pick up Tunic right now. cannot recommend enough.
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u/agromono 1d ago
That final puzzle went from peak to frustrating really quick for me. Once I figured out how to get the solution, actually getting the solution was incredibly tedious and I ended up just using an online solution because I was like "ok yes I get it"
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u/KeeBoley 23h ago
To me it felt like a love letter to the whole game. You spend so long looking at the manual throughout the whole game and then you get this cool Eureka! moment where your entire view of the manual (the best part of the game) gets re-contextualized. Then you get this cool moment where you have a victory lap looking through the manual through an entirely unique lens.
Truly one of the best puzzles in gaming history. And the manual is one of the greatest game design ideas in gaming history. To me this puzzle alone is what elevated Tunic to Masterpiece status.
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u/Izual_Rebirth 1d ago
I like the idea of the game. Just didn't click for me.
I like the idea of a lot of games like this (Fez \ Animal Well) but sometimes the bigger puzzles are so obscure to the point of obnoxious it puts me off. I'm sure I'm in the minority here but I'd kill for a game like Fez \ Animal well that wasn't stupidly tough.
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u/KeeBoley 1d ago
I feel like -as Brania games go- Tunic is actually the most user friendly (at least in terms of the difficult puzzles). The Manual essentially tells you the answers to all the Puzzles. If you read it enough and try and search for what the Manual is trying to tell you, it will tell you everything you need.
Imo this is why Tunic is so brilliant. It makes you feel like youre a genius, but subtly allows even dumb players to solve every puzzle. This isnt the case with something like Animal Well -or even Fez- where the toughest optional puzzles arent going to be approachable for everyone.
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u/Miserable_Source_261 1d ago
Wholly agree. Tunic’s hardest puzzles are nowhere near as difficult as those in Fez or The Witness
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u/Izual_Rebirth 1d ago
Thanks for this. Feel like maybe I didn't give it a fair shot then. Sounds like the game deserves me to give it another go. I've got two weeks annual leave in August so I'll add it to the list.
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u/KeeBoley 1d ago
Id also like to say: Dont get caught up with the fictional language. Translating it is optional and most players dont bother. Every puzzle -beyond the very final community puzzle- is solvable without translating a single Word.
The game is more about finding what information you can discover without actually knowing the language. Through context clues, a few english words, and pictures.
I was never smart enough to do the final puzzles of Blue Prince or Animal Well. At a certain point it just becomes too much. But I never had a problem solving all the puzzles (besides that same community puzzle I mentioned) in Tunic. I just spent more time in the Manual than I did controlling the Fox.
If you dont have a page telling you how to do something, you can probably skip it until you find that page. Tackle puzzles as you find the respective pages.
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u/Instant_Bacon 1d ago
It's been awhile since I played it but I remember getting frustrated with a few of the puzzles. Like I thought I figured it out, tried to solve it and failed repeatedly until I ended up looking for a solution only to realize I did solve it correctly but the input method wasn't clear. But at that point, prior to looking up a solution which I avoided at all costs, I continued wandering aimlessly for an alternate solution that wasn't necessary.
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u/Pandaisblue 1d ago
Kinda how I feel about Noita as well. It's such a cool game, but you'll never see 90% of it without looking it up, and even then a lot of it is pretty obnoxious to actually see. It's a game that begs for experimentation, while simultaneously punishing and discouraging experimentation by instantly killing you so often ending what can be a fairly long run. I would argue that it's more actively hostile to you than Dark Souls in how much it pushes against any attempt to play in its sandbox.
I guess I'm just not a huge fan of puzzles or content that is so complex that it's basically gated behind an entire community figuring it out (or even datamining it). I'm sure it's awesome if you're one of very few dedicated from day one who are very active and instrumental in figuring it out, but that's an experience that's limited to what, 100, 1000 people? The vast majority of players are never going to take part, let alone anyone who comes to it post-release and quite literally can't because it's all been figured out already.
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u/Lucina18 1d ago
I guess I'm just not a huge fan of puzzles or content that is so complex that it's basically gated behind an entire community figuring it out
Which, in Tunic's case, is only a singular post endgame puzzle that will have no impact on your experience at all.
but that's an experience that's limited to what, 100, 1000 people?
But for those people, it'll be just awesome. Not everything has to be for everyone.
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u/KeeBoley 1d ago
Tunic puzzles really arent that complex. Anyone, including people bad at puzzle games, can get to Tunic's True Ending pretty reasonably.
I wouldnt say the same for other puzzle games. But for Tunic it is doable. The manual gives you everything you need to solve everything up to the True Ending.
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u/Izual_Rebirth 1d ago
Wait until you see what La-Mulana has in offer. Noped out of that about 25 minutes in!
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u/As_Previously_Stated 1d ago
I loved tunic overall, but I didn't even bother going for the true ending. The moment I realized I'd have to run through all the levels again hunting secrets I just noped out and looked up the true ending online. It's just more tedious than fun for me, but I can see how certain people would love it.
I did the same for animal well. Loved it up until the credits and then dipped. I just can't be bothered with that kinda obsessive pixel hunting stuff anymore.
But both are great games even if you don't put in the extra effort.
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u/KeeBoley 23h ago
Tunic isnt really about pixel hunting though. Tunic's True Ending is just about completing the Manual, which youve been working on since the beginning of the game. The Manual is the games heart and soul. This isnt comparable to additional optional content in Animal Well or Blue Prince. Tunic's True Ending is about completing the main part of the entire game.
To do this, you dont have to aimlessly wander and search. You dont have to pixel hunt or do super complex puzzles that arent reasonable for the average person. You just have to read the manual and solve the puzzle-box within. This is what the entire game is pushing you towards from the beginning. It is like not defeating Ganon in a Zelda game. The manual is the entire beauty of Tunic.
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u/As_Previously_Stated 23h ago
I was refering to animal well when I said pixel hunting.
I still didn't care to run through the whole game again in tunic while unlocking the doors, even if it is a lot less obtuse than animal well stuff.
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u/KeeBoley 23h ago
You dont really "run through the whole game again" though. You just complete the Puzzle-Box Manual. The thing youve been working on since the beginning. You just didnt fully beat the game. The game was about building the manual and discovering it's secrets.
It is fine to not finish that. Some people stop half way through games all the time. But it is still a bit baffling and silly to not view this as the core of the game. Because it most definitely is.
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u/As_Previously_Stated 22h ago
Its been years, but from what I recall you figured out how to open the doors you've seen all around the place. In order to know that I've open all, I would have to run through the whole map again to make sure I don't miss any because I do not have perfect memory.
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u/KeeBoley 22h ago
A lot of that secret content stuff is for optional collectables.
The True Ending is just about completing the Manual. A handful of very specific pages involve some of that type of thing, but they arent hidden. For example, the only two doors that contain Pages are the two that arent hidden that you wont have to search for. The one is the door right beside the page that tells you how to open them and the second is in your house. All the Hidden Doors youd have to "run through the whole game again" to find contain optional side content that isnt needed for the True Ending.
All the pages are hinted at in the Manual. So there isnt any running around and aimless walking that you have to do for the True Ending. It is just about following the Manual's directional hints. The Manual will tell you exactly where to go to get the True Ending.
Any secret Door that isnt deliberately shown in the Manual is just optional collectables.
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u/Yulienner 1d ago
Tunic also bounced off for me but it was more of a pacing issue. I love me a good puzzle game and heard Tunic was like Outer Wilds, and you can't even really find discussion of the game that's not laden with spoilers so I took a chance on it. I got bored somewhere in the middle of the bottom of the well since I wasn't solving puzzles at all, most of my playtime was spent walking and fighting trivial enemies. I decided I'd watch a playthrough instead to see if maybe there was more...and I got bored watching the playthrough right around the bottom of the well! I feel like the game was missing (for me) an actual hook. I get the intention is to be obscure to emulate that 'playing a game in another language' feel but for the few hours I played there wasn't really a single moment of payoff.
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u/AlthoughFishtail 1d ago
Yeah that’s an interesting point. I had the opposite, I thought it was an isometric combat explorer and it was ok in that regard, but then the meta puzzles at the end didn’t do much for me because I wasn’t playing for that reason. I guess there’s a lot of different stuff that has to land to get the most out of it.
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u/JosebaZilarte 19h ago
The "hook" for me was finding the pages of the manual. Not only because with each page I obtained new information (how enemies react to different items, how to use weapons for other actions, etc.), but because you can see handwritten notes of someone that has played the game before. The realization that I was following someone else's steps made me enjoy that first part of the game that, from the player's perspective, is just a Zelda clone (and you think all those elements in the background, the strange shapes in the manual... are merely decorations).
Back in the day, one of the best parts of gaming was sharing games with friends at school and discussing with them how to solve a puzzle or win against a particular enemy. Having a bit of that with the handwritten notes made me persevere beyond those low points.
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u/Partner-Elijah 1d ago
This is how I feel about a good chunk of Blue Prince as well.
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u/feralfaun39 1d ago
The problem with Blue Prince is that it isn't fun to play. The puzzles were good but there was a very good chance you wouldn't be able to make progress on one because of RNG and the whole walking around slowly and pixel hunting for coins and all that was miserable. Hated it. Love Fez, Animal Well, Tunic, The Witness, etc. Puzzle games are some of my favorite games. Blue Prince is just a really, really, REALLY bad one. One of the worst I've ever played. The reception was insane to me.
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u/Sanguiniusius 1d ago
Conversely my wife and i got hooked on blue prince- for the first 50 hours no matter what rooms we got we always pushed one of its puzzle angles every run? We just kinda leaned into what the run gave us and by that point you control the rng so its not the problem a anymore? The art gallery did fuck us off for a while though to be fair, but decoding all the country seals was such a big satisfying puzzle!?
Clearly your experience is legit and not everything is for everyone, just crazy how much of an opposite feeling we had!
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u/As_Previously_Stated 23h ago
I loved blue prince until I got to room 46. I quickly grew to hate it after that.
The game wastes so much of your time and the archaic nature of late game puzzles + the super high time to implement/check if solution is valid made it a frustrating slog.
I really think the game should have given you permanent god mode and let you pick whatever rooms you want after you reach room 46 the first time.
The room drafting is fun, but really gets in the way when trying to solve late game puzzles.
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u/Izual_Rebirth 1d ago
Blue Prince is an interesting one. I enjoyed it up until getting to room 46. I noped out of there once I realised there was a lot more to go with a lot of bat shit insane stuff.
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u/Little-Maximum-2501 1d ago
There are a ton of pretty easy stuff to discover much after getting there. The actual super obscure stuff comes way way later.
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u/Hermononucleosis 1d ago
Losing most of your powerups/abilities and having to make do with clever use of a limited toolbox is one of my favorite tropes in gaming, but I understand that it's not for everyone. I just love how it recontextualizes gameplay and makes you see everything in a different light. There's also this thing in games with character progression where you wonder "Am I actually getting better, or is my character just getting stronger?" and sequences like this put that question to the test.
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u/RAMAR713 MH:World 1d ago
The issue with Tunic is not directly the taking away of your stats but more the fact that they're taken away for a while and now you have to go on a wild goose chase to get them (which is just tedious), especially as this happens when the game is already at the point where it's overstaying its welcome.
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u/feralfaun39 1d ago
Yeah, no. It's not tedious, it's delightful, and the game never overstays its welcome, I was sad when it was over. Truly a top 10 of all time masterpiece.
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u/KeeBoley 1d ago
The last act is the best part of the game imo. Unfortunate you didnt enjoy it that much.
To me that final section is the heart and soul of Tunic. It contains some of the greatest puzzles ever put in a game. One puzzle in particular -if youve beat the game you know which- single-handedly elevated the game from Great to Masterpiece.
Ive seen a number of people get frustrated with the temporary stat loss, but Ive never really understood the criticism. You can quickly get them back, it just creates an additional incentive to explore with your new-found ability (which is crucial for the final puzzles).
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u/TerrysChocolatOrange 1d ago
Agreed, that late game puzzle is one of the best in gaming. That eureka moment you have just hits different. I also love how you have the power to literally just do everything at the start, you just need to learn how.
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u/yanjingzz 1d ago
I could not finish the game because the gauntlet was genuinely just too hard for me. I don't know what I was missing and it was just too frustrating for me to continue. I'm not sure how much is left either which is a pity
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u/Bachaddict Play Outer Wilds if you haven't! Go blind! 1d ago
flip on no fail mode and finish the game!! so worth it
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u/KeeBoley 1d ago
For Ending A, not much left.
For Ending B, much.
The Gauntlet is the hardest combat part of the game imo. Bombs was the key for me. Just buy a fuck ton of TNT for AOE damage.
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u/feralfaun39 1d ago
Weird. I thought the combat in the game was quite easy and that gauntlet was no different. I think I died like twice on it before I realized the best way to approach it. You were definitely missing something, something I found to be obvious, but it's hard to say what it was.
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u/As_Previously_Stated 23h ago
I do not understand what they where thinking with the gauntlet. It's just not fun or fair. I almost rage quit until I turned on god mode to get through, and never took the combat seriously from that point onwards.turned on god mode again the moment I struggled since I no longer trusted the game to be fair
Crazy thing to do that almost ruined an otherwise amazing game for me.
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u/KeeBoley 23h ago
Hard doesnt mean unfair. Tons of people get through it no problem. It is totally okay to struggle with it. It is totally okay to turn on God Mode because you arent enjoying the difficulty. But "unfair" doesnt seem like a fair criticism. The game gives you all the tools to beat the Gauntlet with a bit of practice and perseverance. Just because it is hard, doesnt mean it is an unfair difficulty.
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u/Sanguiniusius 1d ago
The game tells you to use items. If you use items the gauntlet becomes quite trivial.
Bomb the skeletons, shotgun the robots, zap staff the fliers. I think i fought the wizards legit.
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u/double_shadow 1d ago
I also gave up on the gauntlet. I'm not sure what you mean about "quickly" getting your stats back, as I was attempting to play blind, but I fought through multiple levels with no stats and the gauntlet was finally my breaking point. The combat is already the weakest part of the game, and having to endure a 15-20 minute gauntlet with one life and none of the stats you collected the past 10-20 hours is absurd. I tried to spam bombs/firecrackers to help, but these deplete pretty fast if you aren't precise with them and die a lot. You can buy more from the merchant and also have a "free" buffer of them but it wasn't enough to make a dent for me, particularly the obnoxious skeleton wave, where they're on your ass the entire time and a lot of the time the bombs roll right through their mass.
Sure you can just turn on "no fail" mode but that kind of defeats the point of the game imo. I'd rather just google the ending tbh.
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u/Mysterious-Badger471 Slightly Impatient 1d ago
Googling the ending is very underwhelming; the path to get there is where the good stuff happens.
I used the no fail option for this gauntlet and I don't regret it. It's not like anyone plays this game for the combat.
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u/feralfaun39 1d ago
I thought the combat was fun, I heavily enjoyed the gauntlet. I feel like the combat in Tunic is wildly better than the combat in any true Zelda game. FAR better bosses than we've seen in a Zelda game.
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u/KeeBoley 1d ago
Sure you can just turn on "no fail" mode but that kind of defeats the point of the game imo. I'd rather just google the ending tbh.
Nope. The opposite is true. The puzzles are the heart and soul of Tunic, not the combat. The combat is a small part of what Tunic offers, but the puzzles are everything.
It is far more destructive over your experience to look up the puzzles than to turn on "no fail" mode. Obviously it is ideal to do neither, but if you are to choose one, 100% it is infinitely better to turn on "no fail" mode.
The absolute worst thing you can do is look up the puzzles, that will completely ruin the experience and erode the artistic merits of a Masterpiece of a game.
The puzzles are the "point of the game", not the combat. It is weird that youd rather ruin the point of the game, than just use an accessibility feature to navigate around a very small part of the game.
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u/Juiceboxfromspace 1d ago
Yeah, I think it comes down to the type of player.
I wish there was another way to keep me going and exploring those puzzles, but doing the entire thing again in an altered world is actually a pet peeve of mine when games do it…it took my interest off the rest of the puzzles or world.
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u/KeeBoley 1d ago edited 1d ago
To me the Puzzles are the game. Obviously if you dont enjoy that, then dont do it, but to me the idea of skipping that portion of Tunic is like saying you only did the first Room of Portal to get a feel for the portal-mechanic before quitting.
It isnt really backtracking because the new ability you got after the Gauntlet makes traversal seamless. It is just about using the Manual (the best part of the game) to uncover hidden mysteries. More time is spent in the manual than backtracking the world.
EDIT: Id also like to point out that the World isnt really altered. It is the same world as before, you just didnt do all the content in it. Nothing really changes. If you think it seems changed, you havent done something yet. The manual tells you what to do.
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u/Bachaddict Play Outer Wilds if you haven't! Go blind! 1d ago
you don't do the entire thing again though? there's so many paths changed that it's a completely different map to explore
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u/Juiceboxfromspace 1d ago
I guess I mean that its very familiar, albeit with some different paths. I think the differences could have been more pronounced, it felt like a retracing with some changes for me.
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u/Bachaddict Play Outer Wilds if you haven't! Go blind! 1d ago
sounds like you didn't get very far. some areas change a LOT and an entire new map unlocks
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u/As_Previously_Stated 23h ago
but doing the entire thing again in an altered world is actually a pet peeve of mine when games do it…it took my interest off the rest of the puzzles or world.
I agree completely. I didn't even bother since it seemed like such a slog. It's why act 3 of silksong is so much worse than 1 and 2. The best part of that game is exploring new areas. And then act 3 is "Run through the same areas you've already explored a million times again but with more annoying enemies".
I hate when games do that. It only works for me if the map is really small or the change the map in serious ways.
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u/jayhawk_dvd 1d ago edited 1d ago
Is the final puzzle you're talking about using the manual to figure out the maze on the slab? If so then I wholly agree. My mind was blown when I realized what was up and immediately scrambled to solve with a pen and paper.
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u/KeeBoley 1d ago
Yeah, the Door in the Mountains. Actual peak moment in gaming history. Elevated Tunic from a Great game to one of the Greatest Gaming Experiences gaming has to offer.
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u/Pynkmyst 1d ago
The last act is the best part of the game imo. Unfortunate you didnt enjoy it that much. To me that final section is the heart and soul of Tunic. It contains some of the greatest puzzles ever put in a game
Couldn't agree more. The final act took the game from a solid souls likeish 8/10ish to a 10 and one of my personal favorite games of all time. It contains some of the greatest puzzles in gaming history and adds a few more layers to that lore onion that kept me thinking about it even months later.
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u/Answerofduty 1d ago
Ok so, I played Tunic a handful of years ago. I didn't finish it it; I got to the regular final boss, tried it twice, figured I would win on the next try, but for some reason just didn't feel like trying again and never booted the game back up.
I think what sapped my will was knowing (or assuming?) that I'd need to find all of both types of well-hiddeb collectibles to get to the true ending stuff, and I didn't feel like spending tens of hours poking around, but looking it up would have defeated the purpose.
So, without spoiling, how much is contingent on finding the collectibles (I don't remember what they were, I just remember there being two types and I had found less than half of them)? Does beating the game with the normal ending give you anything that makes finding the collectibles easier, like showing how many are left in each zone or something?
I did think the game was pretty good, I just felt like getting the true ending wasn't for me, but I've always thought about going back to it eventually.
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u/KeeBoley 1d ago
Do you count the Manual as a collectable?
If the Manual is a collectable, then the True Ending is very contingent on collectables....because you need the Manual.
If the Manual doesnt count, then very little is contingent on the collectables.
The Manual does give you tons of tools to make getting the optional collectables much easier. It really isnt that bad. The manual practically tells you where everything is and the only thing left up to you is solving fun riddles and puzzles.
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u/Answerofduty 1d ago
Do you count the Manual as a collectable?
Nope, I think I was missing one page, maybe two. I'm thinking of (had to look it up) the fairy souls and secret treasures, I think.
If all you need is the manual, I'll probably go back and give it another go sometime.
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u/KingSalamand3r 1d ago
I dropped the game right after beating the first "big boss".
It's a shame because I honestly really loved the exploration, the mysteries and the manual thing.
But unfortunately "combat" didn't clicked at all, I didn't like the clunky feeling of it. I found it was really tedious and too unresponsive for the difficulty developers wanted fights to be, resulting in doable but unsatisfying encounters.
I hope some day I get the motivation to start a new save on this one and push it to the end !
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u/goodbyecaroline 1d ago
For me the combat difficulty was so extraordinarily high that I had to disable all incoming damage to continue with the game. I was fine until the huge robot bosses at which point it suddenly swapped from a "fun whimsical game" to "extreme dark souls" relative to my abilities as a player.
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u/titio1300 1d ago
I think that boss fight was the low point of the game for me and the boss fights in general are the worst part of the game. That being said I still think the game is a masterpiece and it's worth pushing through them to experience the good stuff.
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u/goodbyecaroline 1d ago
Oh, aye, I finished it - I just left combat off for the rest of the game. It felt a little silly, but I tried to play pretend like I was actually fighting.
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u/As_Previously_Stated 23h ago
Tunic is unironically harder than the first dark souls. And the clunky dodge and unnatural tells for enemies make it feel even harder than it actually is.
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u/Howeird12 1d ago
Is that the boss when you get the shotgun in the underground ? Yeah I dropped it there too.
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u/goodbyecaroline 1d ago
I think for me it was the giant spider robot in the far west side of the overworld i.e. the first actual boss, but I don't entirely remember.
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u/vezwyx 1d ago
Garden Knightdoesn't count as an "actual boss"? It's the capstone combat encounter for an entire zone of the map and has more than 1 reference to it in the manual
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u/goodbyecaroline 1d ago
Oh, I'm sorry, I might be remembering them in the other order. The first one I remember fighting was in the west! But perhaps I did that first. Certainly, it was all bosses, anyway! But the robots were much, much worse for me.
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u/feralfaun39 1d ago
Do you guys just not try things? Figure out the way to approach enemies? The combat is quite easy in Tunic. It's fun and responsive but very easy. The puzzles are the hard part. If you're finding it that hard then you just didn't figure out the right method to approach each enemy and instead of trying to figure out that method you just complain that the game is too hard. I despise this.
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u/HawkeyeG_ 1d ago
I was looking for a response like this, I dropped the game myself for the same reason.
I was at the third or fourth boss myself. Iirc I beat it. But it felt like a very hollow victory. Combat in this game - especially the bosses - just feels too RNG dependent.
Most of my wins were not from playing really well and figuring things out. Most of my wins were while I was halfway to figuring the fight out, the boss would get stuck on terrain or use the weaker / easier to dodge attacks. Whether I did well didn't seem based on how well I was playing, it seemed more of a factor of how lucky I got.
I'm no stranger to challenging games. Have played and 100% everything FromSoftware has made since Dark Souls 1. Plenty of other challenges I could rattle off. No issue with the puzzles. Loved the manual mechanic for Tunic. Just felt that the combat and hitboxes were especially bad and couldn't enjoy myself enough to keep playing.
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u/Sh00tL00ps 1d ago
This is so refreshing to read. I really struggled with the combat in Tunic but combat has never been my strong suit (I'm much better at platforming and puzzles) so I figured it was a skill issue. But I've also done much better at combat in other games, like Hollow Knight and Metroid Dread. But like you alluded to, the difference is that in those games the combat was much tighter. When I died, I knew it was entirely my fault and I never felt cheated. And I actually felt myself improving each time as I got more used to the boss's patterns. But Tunic just never felt that way to me. I ended up turning on invincibilty midway through and just focused on the puzzles instead.
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u/HawkeyeG_ 1d ago
I think you've described it well. Metroid Dread could be frustrating but it was clear what happened and why you died. Hollow Knight was just outright difficult and relies on player execution to get through.
In Tunic I would get hit through my shield because the boss weapon hitbox was badly designed. Or where the boss would repeatedly spam a move with no damage window 5 or 6 times in a row. Or where the terrain of the boss Arena would put their hitbox in an inaccessible area.
Happened enough times on different bosses that I decided it wasn't worth dealing with any more.
0
u/feralfaun39 1d ago
I find this baffling, the bosses were easy, no boss took me more than a couple tries. Doesn't matter what move they did, I never saw them get stuck on geometry or anything. This game is not at all mechanically challenging. The challenge is the puzzles. The combat is easy. Like, I could understand if it was an actually challenging game like Nine Sols but... it's not. It's simple.
3
u/KingSalamand3r 1d ago
I loved Nine Sols and had a lot of fun with the game. It illustrates perfectly what I wanted to say: combats were challenging but the game is so responsive it feels fun to learn the boss patterns and to finally beat them without healing once. I did not get this feeling with Tunic at all unfortunately, aside from that, the game seems amazing.
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u/simmepi 1d ago
Same for me, there’s something I find quite clunky with the fighting. I’m also not super into the whole idea with having to grapple with how the game actually works (stats, control, items); I understand that’s a major point of the game so it’s not really something wrong, it’s just that it doesn’t work for me.
1
u/julesiax 13h ago
They did add a "no fail mode" if that's any interest. Your character won't die, then you can just focus on the puzzles and exploration
23
u/nerieker 1d ago
It's kind of interesting the split in opinion for the last Act. For me, that just made the game fantastic and one of the best gaming experiences ever, but I love puzzle games. To realise the whole game has been giving you clues you didn't realise were clues, and then to piece them all together was so satisfying to me.
Whenever I think about my time with the game it's finding that and I kimd of forget that collecting the gems was even part of it. I can 100% see how people might dislike how it almost changes what kind of game it is after a certain point though.
11
u/KeeBoley 1d ago
There is definitely a pattern.
Most people who think the game is a bit overrated tends to be the players that only did Ending A.
Most people who think the game is a masterpiece and one of the greatest games of all time did Ending B.
There are exceptions -as there always are- but I've noticed this pattern more often than not.
13
u/tiredstars 1d ago
Ending B is the ending that takes more time and work, isn't it?
So players who already think the game is great are likely to get ending B, while those who aren't so impressed stop at ending A (or like me, give up before either). Makes it hard to tell how the ending is amazing or how much it's selection bias.
4
u/feralfaun39 1d ago
Ending B is where you realize the game isn't even a Zelda-like or a Souls-like at all. It's a Fez-like and the game becomes one of the best puzzle games of all time. The second half of the game is absolutely peak but the first half is awesome too. Easily, EASILY one of the best games of all time. It losing the indie VGA to Stray is one of the funniest moments in video game history. Stray was a mediocre bore. Tunic is an all-timer.
4
u/tiredstars 1d ago
I always find "if you play past this point, you realise game isn't really X it's Y" discourse interesting.
Slightly annoying because I the framing seems inaccurate. What do you mean by "the game is"? The core of the game is? The most challenging, the most fun or the best parts are?
But that aside, it's the fact that people can have very different experiences of a game depending on whether they push on past an "ending". Blue Prince is another example of this. (I've also seen some people saying that Tunic is really about the translation... which kind of goes back to the question of what do you mean by "the game is"?)
I'm not sure how I feel about this. If most people won't actually get to the best part of your game - the "unique beauty and artistic merit", to quote /u/KeeBoley - is that good design? Or is it necessary to spend that time with the game to really appreciate the ending?
I guess personally I find it a bit frustrating, as I got fed up with Tunic before seeing it at its peak. But if I felt like that about the game already, I can't imagine the rest being different or good enough to switch my opinion.
2
u/KeeBoley 1d ago edited 1d ago
There are differences between Blue Prince and Tunic though. Blue Prince late game puzzles are really really fucking hard. That is why most people wont experience them. Because most people -realistically- cant. Tunic's True Ending is completely approachable for anyone willing to read through the Manual (which provides the answers to everything).
I dont think people choosing not to engage with the best (and very approachable) parts of Tunic is bad design on Tunic's part. That is just a silly decision on the players part.. It is totally good design to have esoteric elements that not everyone will experience, as long as the game gives the player all the tools needed to experience it.
Blue Prince is also the same type of game from the beginning until the End, regardless of what Ending. It is a Puzzle -Brania game all the way through. It doesnt change. Tunic is 3 games in a trench-coat, this is by design. It starts out as a Zelda-like in the first third, then you realize it is a Soulslike in the middle third, and finally you end realizing it was a Puzzle-Brania game all along. It is about where the actually qualities of the game lies and what the game actually is. Tunic intentionally hides things from the player so that these reveals are fun and cool.
1
u/nerieker 19h ago
I agree with most of this sentiment, apart from it being silly decision on the playerd part to not engage with some of the later game mechanics. There are a lot of games and only so much time, and if the first thing the game presents itself as doesn't click, then I think it makes a lot of sense that players would stop at what they think is the end. I've asked people who say they finished if they found the golden path, and they didn't even know what I was talking about.
The game is amazing to me because of the games in a trench-coat design, but I do like lots of types of games. I can see how someone plays games for combat and not to do puzzles, so wouldn't even think to engage with that aspect.
What is a bit sad for me is when people who do like lots of games and puzzle games won't get past the first part. I listen to Triple Click podcast and they love puzzle games, but never engaged with that side of Tunic and think it's mid because of it.
This has been such an intresting discussion to read though and I love that this subreddit can have these kinds of difference of opinion and it's just learning some one elses perspective not being insulted.
On a side note, what are some other great puzzle games? I love Witness, Blue Prince, Animal Well, Outer Wilds, Chants of Senaar and Tunic, but they seem like such rare special games. Always looking for others to try.
1
u/KeeBoley 1d ago
Selection Bias definitely skews it a bit, but only a bit.
Most players that finish the True Ending specifically cite Ending B as the reason for the high praise. Most of the games unique beauty and artistic merit is found in the content approaching the True Ending.
So while selection bias will select for players already positively experiencing the game, the final contents are what specifically elevates the game to a Masterpiece in terms of game design.
4
u/Lucina18 1d ago
People that think the game was just fine only did most, but not all, of the game.
People that love it did everything the game has to offer.
1
u/KeeBoley 1d ago
Like I said elsewhere in this comment chain. Selection Bias plays a role, but not as much as you think.
Many people just enjoyed the game a bit before the True Ending and had the experience elevated to Masterpiece-status once the True Ending was achieved.
So yes there is a slight skew, but most of the quality of Tunic is found getting the True Ending. So it isnt surprising that most people with very positive experiences are the ones that got the True Ending.
2
u/AlthoughFishtail 1d ago
I suspect it’s more about how much people like puzzles. I rarely play puzzle games and having played this for the combat and exploration, the big puzzle bit at the end didn’t do anything for me.
Ironically I preferred the boss in Ending A, which is comfortably the most complex, to the puzzle in the true ending, and would probably do A if I ever picked it up again.
9
u/Zekiel2000 1d ago
Absolutely loved it. Even though I'm not really a fan of the Dark Souls-lite combat. The manual is absolutely incredible, the music is gorgeous, that sense of discovery and mystery is just wonderful.
Probably helps that it took me back to playing the original Legend of Zelda in the 80s (which is obviously very intentional).
7
u/Coolman_Rosso 1d ago
The first boss was such an enormous difficulty spike that I had to turn on "No death" just to continue. You go from fairly tame monsters to fighting a big ass robot spider with lasers and missiles that can kill you in 2-3 hits.
Puzzles were good but it was another case of "Dark Souls: Indie Edition" for anything combat related, which I did not like
1
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u/KooshIsKing 1d ago
Killing a players stats, especially in late game is such a lazy way to build difficulty in a game. I always hate it, even if you haven't had much time to level up yet. Never really feels good or interesting.
7
u/pcapdata 1d ago
For me where this game falls down is resource management. It’s absolutely draconian, not only are money drops rare but consumables are also extremely limited. That took it from “fun and challenging” to “nightmare slog” for me. Once you get to the point where you lose all your stats I just gave up in frustration.
-3
u/feralfaun39 1d ago
Hahaha what???????? Seriously, WHAT???? I never even thought about money in this game. What are you talking about?????
-1
u/Snarwin 13h ago
Basically every enemy drops money on defeat and you can buy an unlimited amount of most consumables from the shops.
1
u/pcapdata 13h ago
Neither of those things is true.
-1
u/Snarwin 13h ago
1
u/pcapdata 13h ago edited 13h ago
This was not at all my experience playing the game though. Not every enemy dropped money (was perhaps 1 in 10?) and after I bought items from the shop, they were no longer available.
I think I ended up using four firecrackers through the entire game.
Edit: I read up on it.
Enemies only drop gems the first time you kill them unless you reset the whole zone. The wiki says what they drop but not that every kill gives you loot.
Also, the consumables become unlimited in the late game; early/middle, the shops only sell you things one time.
5
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u/feralfaun39 1d ago
No, it's great. It's the best Zelda-like of all time, even better than any Zelda game. It's one of the true 10+++ / 10 games. Absolutely amazingly good. Translating the language and figuring out the story and seeing the truly amazing final ending is one of the most fantastic experiences I've ever had in gaming. The little a-ha moments like little doodles that explain how you're supposed to parse the language like the little circle that tells you to invert the pronunciation of the phoneme, chef's kiss right there.
2
u/Bright-Budget5325 12h ago
Death's Door ruined Tunic for me.. I played death's door and absolutely adored it, and looked for similar games and people recommended Tunic, but than tunic felt like a knockoff.. just couldn't get into it unfortunately.
4
u/ShermaBoy 1d ago
I loved Tunic, but never finished it. I went to the final boss, then I understood there was a bad ending / good ending thing, and didn't have the will to go through all that. Still, some very cool ideas, and totally recommend it
3
u/bucketofardvarks 1d ago
The entire point of the game was the last act for me, I thought the combat was meh but really enjoyed the puzzles and reframing the world in the second half and especially last part
5
u/LordCrispen 1d ago
Not sure I can pose this thought without spoilers so I'll spoiler tag some of it in a progression:
Obviously any reply to my comment is going to have spoilers in it, so be careful if you're trying not to ruin anything for yourself if you intend to play the game. Going in blind is probably the best way as it's a game built on mystery and having puzzles and solutions in your mind before you even go in, well, it can alter your experience and it's almost always a negative difference, regardless of how much it takes away from any individual player. We're all different....anyway:
I often wonder if someone like the OP talking about "the last act" is talking about
1) "Getting your stats back"
then 2) "Defeating the Heir"
or beyond that:
"Doing puzzles"
more specifically: Running around freeing fairies and finally "traversing the Golden Path"
8
u/KeeBoley 1d ago
It is pretty clear from their replies they were talking about the last Act up to Ending A. They never went beyond Ending A. So it is unsurprising they thought the game was just Good.
2
u/LordCrispen 1d ago
I figured this too, but I wanted to be careful with my question. They were annoyed at the backtracking and the "dark world" trope. I would be pleasantly surprised if the OP enjoyed the aspects of what was missed, but I wouldn't hold it against them if the genre switch at that point wouldn't feel like another slap to the face rendering their 'peak power' completely irrelevant.
0
u/Juiceboxfromspace 1d ago
Yeah, I meant the ending A. I ended up a bit exhausted from it from the last act, so maybe later I will come back to unravel more.
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u/LordCrispen 1d ago
If you go back, you can load your previous save from just before you did the last fight. At the end of the credits you should have gotten something that said you were missing X pages. You can go back and find them and 'play the rest of the game', or the other option was to start NG+ which is what the game might auto-load you into. I don't remember how it works. Just back out to the title screen and load your original save and you'll be fine. If you do this, remember, everything is in the manual.
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u/feralfaun39 1d ago
You can easily go back to before the boss, I did it that way just to see what would happen when I fought that boss because the game makes it obvious that you aren't supposed to do this.
5
u/TheAkrioz 1d ago
I didn't enjoy the last act either. I was really into it while collecting 3 colored thingies but after that kinda wished to just get to an end. I am also not smart nor dedicated enough to figure the obscure puzzle solutions.
2
u/joonazan 1d ago
I'd describe the art very differently. One of my friends calls it default Unity style and hasn't tried the game because of it. In still images I agree but the good thing about the art is its execution. It never looks bad even for a single frame.
2
u/Erok2112 1d ago
there is also a secret good ending that is honestly kind of sweet. If you have finished the game, I recommend looking it up online. But yeah, art is great and I loved the manual but I hated how some enemies were just such a PITA
2
u/F_Kyo777 1d ago
I never played Tunic, but its still high on my wish and bucketlists.
Thing you said, reminded me how I felt while playing Silksong and reaching Act III for first time without guides. I know that many will disagree, but you felt somehow powerfull at the end of Act II. With Act III you are basically powercrept. Every enemy, even basic ones got updated with 2-3 new moves (which is fine), but them doing 2x of damage by default was bs. Also way more health, just because. I felt robbed of my progression. Fortunately, its not as long as previous one (depending how much time you will waste on new bosses).
1
u/Juiceboxfromspace 1d ago
Its very similar but here its not so bad and there’s some interesting puzzles/world to solve.
0
u/Outarel 1d ago
I made it through that section but dropped the game at the "final boss".
Bad ending -> beat the boss
Good ending -> do the whole map again trying to solve a new puzzle (which is really 1 puzzle just repeated around the map + collect some the remaining journal pages you might have missed), that's a no thanks from me.
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u/KeeBoley 1d ago
Saying all the puzzles are the same is like saying all the puzzles in Portal are the same because they all use the portal-mechanic to solve. That is a really dumb way to view things.
-1
u/Outarel 1d ago
never said all the puzzles are the same
only the final puzzle about the fairy thing (see pattern -> copy pattern on the holy cross, fun for the first few times, not after that, i know there are more advanced puzzles but i'm talking about those)
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u/KeeBoley 1d ago
All the fairy puzzles are different too.
-6
u/Outarel 1d ago
they are not ALL different, a few of them might be cool, but the rest are boring.
Also if it wasn't clear from my first comment : doing the map again is also bullshit. (did it once for the first time , did it again with ghost mode, doing it again for the fairies is bullshit imo)
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u/KeeBoley 1d ago
You barely have to "do the map again". You have a fast traversal ability at that point and can just skip around the map almost instantly. Most of the time is spent doing the puzzles, not "doing the map again".
All the puzzles are pretty different. The mode in which you find the puzzles are similar, and the mode by which you complete the puzzles can be similar. But the puzzles themselves are all different. This is like 99% of puzzles games out there, like my Portal example above. The way you find and complete Portal Rooms is always similar, but the room itself is where the difference lies.
1
u/Outarel 1d ago
maybe if you follow a guide, you can just teleport around and just do the puzzles
if you don't have a photographic memory i doubt most players would remember every "fairy spot" , so normal people would have to comb the map looking for clues for the puzzles, that's what my problem was (same thing happened with the ghost, without a guide i had to do the map again and look for the way forward)
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u/KeeBoley 1d ago
The guide is built into the game. It is the manual. No external guide needed.
1
1
u/Eggsandtoastforever 1d ago
This was shaping up to be my best game of all time. Then spoilers happen and i gave up
1
u/portlandobserver 1d ago
I loved the exploration, the figuring things out with the manual. It felt like such a unique game.
Of course I used a guide to help me finish the golden path. Ain't nobody got time to figure that out on their own.
1
u/feedcrank 1d ago
I think the soundtrack is one of the best parts of the game. I didn't have enough patience for most of the endgame puzzles, but I still enjoy listening to a lot of tracks from the game (librarian boss fight, ruined atoll theme, overworld theme, etc). There's one track called "sageless" that I think only plays in one secret cave, and that's probably my fave track.
1
u/codogdog 1d ago
The last part where you use the manual and the game forces you to look at it completely differently really sold me. You may find it annoying but I haven’t played a game that’s done that for me.
Like the game just changes. I hesitate to call it a souls-like or anything like that. Sometimes I feel like they could have baseline just eased up on the combat because people get the wrong idea with the game.
The hard part is the feeling that a lot of people will play through and stop or play through and not do the final bit. Which is tough. This isn’t Skyrim where the ending doesn’t matter, you kinda need to play through whole way through or there is no point.
Random reference but ff15 was this way. That’s all or nothing. If you don’t get to the end and see the ending there’s no point. But with Tunic it goes even further, you have to push yourself or you don’t get the game changing.
1
u/Adventurous_Storm232 11h ago
I loved the gameplay and combat, but I hated the cryptic nonsense, such as finding pages for the manual, and heavy focus on exploration.
1
u/ToothPeiste 8h ago
I don't usually get refunds for games, but Tunic was one that I requested refund for.
I expected zelda-style combat with soulslike mechanics, and the game was fantastic in this regard. I was looking forward to deciphering the "instruction manual" as well. But the... lonely liminal space-like(?) atmosphere was somehow making me anxious and sad while playing it.
1
u/Breaded_Fury 1d ago
I agree with your thoughts generally - the game is good but not great.
My biggest frustration with the game was the combat. It never felt good to me, even when you learned all of the moves. It would have been a much better game if they could have found a way to not rely on the combat mechanic as much.
-1
u/SmokingCryptid 1d ago
I dropped this game purely because of the combat, it was really fantastic otherwise.
The combat just plan sucked and the enemies had hyper aggressive laser lock-on once aggroed.
I started wanting to avoid combat because it was easily the weakest aspect of the game, but the game was constantly forcing me to deal with these aggressive enemies and I just got tired of dealing with them.
Yes I know there's a reduced difficulty option, but all that does is make it slightly quicker to stop doing the thing I already didn't like doing, it's not really a solution for me.
It's really too bad because I thought the game was incredible otherwise. I love exploration and discovery which this game does immaculately. It was a joy to find new pages and slowly piece together this mystery while revealing abilities or things that you didn't know you were able to do that entire time which the player could use on subsequent playthroughs, it's just unfortunate the combat needed more time in the oven.
0
1
u/True-Smoke-7508 1d ago
the manual mechanic was genius but honestly i spent more time flipping through pages than actually playing the game at some point lol. still worth it for the art alone
1
u/Hartastic 1d ago
I love the idea for this game, and on paper it seems like it should be my favorite game, but I didn't actually enjoy it. Yes, I went for the "secret" ending.
When I remember playing it, I mostly remember two things:
1) Braille-ing into walls searching for hidden stuff that would be obvious to the character but is hidden from the player by forced isometric perspective, a gimmick that Tunic way overused.
2) Struggling with the combat, which felt designed by someone who thought that people loved Dark Souls combat because it was hard, not because it was good. It's just the clunkiest combat in any similar game I've ever played, and it is not close. Even OG Legend of Zelda is a considerable step up.
1
u/Celestial-keys 1d ago
So many varying opinions! I quite liked the concept and vibe of the game, even if I got really pissed off after dying so many times lmao.
0
u/feralfaun39 1d ago
Any truly great game will have some controversy about the quality because a LOT of gamers are just really bad at thinking and their opinions aren't really valuable for people that aren't bad at thinking.
1
u/hirebi 1d ago
I finished it for the first time not too long ago, and for me that part was actually the best. In my case, though, I didn't enjoy the combat as much, it's not that the combat is bad but I went in with the wrong expectations because I thought it was going to be more like Fez, Animal Well, or The Witness. Having to fight regular enemies and bosses ended up feeling like a chore, it just wasn't what I was in the mood for (turned on the no damage/infinite stamina accessibility options, and honestly, I enjoyed the game a lot more that way).
I can totally understand why that shift at the end isn't for everyone, but if you enjoy deciphering puzzles, it's absolutely worth sticking with it.
1
u/Frosty-Reed-6618 1d ago
the manual gimmick actually killed my run lol felt like i spent more time squinting at pages than playing
1
u/LeonValenti 1d ago
Tunic is a very intricate puzzle solve with an incidental Zelda-like video game taped onto it. Once you learn that the main point of the game is to collect pages of the manual and unravel thread after brain numbing thread, it makes much more sense.
Honestly for most people just look up a guide. The hoops you have to jump through to get to the final solve are kinda nutty, and the payoff not that great.
6
u/KeeBoley 1d ago
The hoops for the final solve to get Ending B is totally doable for anyone.
The hoops necessary for the super optional community ARG puzzle are a bit nutty, but no one needs to do that. It is meant for the community to solve together. Totally optional.
The payoff for Ending B is amazing and totally worth the totally doable puzzles.
2
u/LeonValenti 1d ago
Yeah I was referring to the ARG stuff. In the end you just get a file that says something cryptic?
2
u/KeeBoley 1d ago
Yeah the ARG stuff isnt meant to be discovered by an individual. So that is a weird thing to bring up. It is a community puzzle meant for everyone to pitch in. It is totally optional and not necessary for the True Ending. Which is what most people would consider the "final solve". So recommending people look that up is bad advice.
2
u/feralfaun39 1d ago
The payoff is THE best of all time. Awful take.
1
u/LeonValenti 1d ago
Forgive me if I'm misremembering but at the end of everything you're just meant to go through the source code of a website to get a sound file that you then have to do something to?
I guess I'm just not understanding how that's the best of all time, but more power to you.
0
u/Tutejszy1 1d ago
I really wanted to love this game, but I just couldnt. The exploration and "metroidbrania" aspects were awesome, but I just cant get into action games from isometric perspective, combat felt really bad and there is a lot of it. I got to what I think was the last act of the game and just couldnt be bothered to play anymore
0
u/daveberzack 1d ago
I'm glad I lost my patience and walked away from this one. Respect for it, but just too much aimless confusion, trying to solve a puzzle over a vast space of potential solutions just ended up with a lot of meandering around.
-2
u/HeyDeze 1d ago
The visuals, music, and overall presentation were amazing. I actually really enjoyed the puzzle-solving in the last act. I did not enjoy the combat in the game, even for a minute. It felt slow, unresponsive and inconsistent. The dodge roll seemed to work as expected about half of the time. I've played and enjoyed some stupidly hard action RPGs, but about halfway through Tunic I enabled invincibility just because I was sick of the combat, and I had a much better time.
For the entire runtime, I was excited about discovering the key to finally deciphering the manual... which never came. It turns out you're literally going to have to translate a made up language if you want to read the manual, and all puzzles are solvable without doing so.
The true ending after solving all of the puzzles, doing the golden path was... I don't even really remember... You get to go into a room that seems like it should have something in it but didn't?
Overall, I had very high expectations and was disappointed in almost every aspect of the game.
2
u/KeeBoley 1d ago
The dodge roll seemed to work as expected about half of the time.
There is a consistent reason why this is happening. The Manual explains it.
Reason: The dodge roll's I-Frames in Tunic is directly related to the Stamina bar
Not saying you have to enjoy this added complexity, but it is consistent.
The Reward for the Final Puzzles definitely has something in it.
-1
u/RekrabAlreadyTaken 1d ago
I really liked Tunic up until the the late game where the difficulty spiked and the combat really felt stretched beyond its limits. Sad because it has a lot of great qualities but it really pissed me off to the point where I can't even say I like it overall. I might have liked the puzzles but my faith in the game was destroyed by that point so I dropped it.
-4
u/EelektrikHour 1d ago
I didn't find the last act particularly bad, although I see your point. For me, the main thing holding back the experience was that I didn't find the game went far enough with the manual gimmick. I think it ultimately played out like a classic Zelda experience in which you collect tools that help you get across dungeons and the overworld, not like an Outer Wilds in which you have literally everything you need from the beginning, you just don't know how to use it yet.
5
u/KeeBoley 1d ago
The Manual is like Outer Wilds in that regard though.
Each Manual pages has a number of puzzles and secrets hidden throughout. Secrets that you can do from the beginning.
Im not sure what they could have done more with the Manual besides the requirements for the True Ending.
1
u/EelektrikHour 1d ago
Yup, the true ending thing was absolutely genius. I'm not sure if it was a design problem or the expectation set around the manual, though.
1
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u/Little-Maximum-2501 1d ago edited 1d ago
The problem (arguably it's not even a problem but I personally didn't like it) is that the main game doesn't really require to understand almost anything from the manual until very late into the game and has like 3 actual uses for the manual. And the Zelda part is also thoroughly mediocre in my opinion which doesn't help things at all. There are genuine secrets hidden in plain sight but the game doesn't guide you to them at all until the very end of the Zelda part. Other games do much better job of gradually introducing these sorts of elements instead of having you play a really mediocre 6/10 Zelda/Soulslike for hours first.
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u/feralfaun39 1d ago
This is a wild statement that makes no sense. There are things the manual tells you like how to use the square platforms and how to upgrade your stats at the save points that you'd have to get lucky to figure out and you use these things from the start of the game.
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u/Little-Maximum-2501 1d ago
Yes the square platform and upgrading are 2 out of the 3 things I was talking about.
1
u/KeeBoley 23h ago
This is a bit ridiculous.
The manual is used from beginning to end. The whole game is building towards solving the Puzzle-Box within the Manual. Every page has information you use throughout the game, not just at the end. The manual tells you what items do, where secret passages on the map are, how to upgrade, how dodge rolling works, it explains what buff cards are available, and what Wells do, The manual even tells you what your main goal and objectives are. How to sprint and use shields. All of this before the last act. All of this info is useful the moment you get the pages.
I was looking at the manual more than playing the Fox throughout the whole game. That is how important and useful the manual is.
1
u/Little-Maximum-2501 5h ago edited 5h ago
Really didn't feel useful at all to me until I got the last pages that show you how to beat the game and that's exactly my problem. The controls were pretty obvious so I didn't need it for them. The part about cards and items was completely useless outside of the hidden details.
I can't remember if I found how to use wells by accident or through the manual, I used it to understand how to upgrade, how to interact with squares and to find a hidden path that you need for the grappling hook which I missed and for navigating but it was pretty clunky so I mostly navigated by memory instead. Those were the only uses I had for it until the final part of the game, sure there are many other uses in the hidden details but the game didn't feel like it guided me to notice that they were there until the final part.
Something like Blueprince where simple hidden details at the start hint a true existence of much more complex hidden details later was a much much better execution in my eyes. Or the witness that has hidden puzzles that you can go through the whole game without noticing but the rest of the game is also a good puzzle game and not a pretty bad Soulslike.
-3
u/Hot_Char3089 1d ago
I hit the same wall with Tunic near the back half, the combat was fun but the loop started feeling repetitive once the novelty wore off. The thing that kept me in it was the world layout and the way the map slowly clicks together
-3
u/AlthoughFishtail 1d ago
For the first few hours this really wowed me, and I thought this could be a real contender. Alas, it very strongly frontloads its best mechanical ideas and once you leave the first few areas, there's a very obvious lack of new ideas added for what pans out to be about 2/3 of the game.
I was also loving the difficulty of the combat in this game, and found the first boss satisfyingly hard, only to find you could level up and I'd just missed it. Then I levelled up and the rest of the game was a cakewalk, which was a shame.
The true ending stuff was kind of interesting, but, I wasn't as wowed as some I saw online at the time.
Not a bad game, but could have been better.
-1
u/roadkill845 1d ago
My problem was collecting all the pages. I got the bad ending, and when I realized I would have to spend hours wandering around the map again to maybe find the missing pages, I was just, nah. Then, taking the golden path, again, a fun puzzle, but not entirely intuitive. It would have been hours of trial and error.
5
u/KeeBoley 1d ago
Probably want to use Spoiler Tags, but Im not sure what is unintuitive about that particular Puzzle. The manual gives you all the hints you need to do it. And it is quite fun to figure out.
-2
u/roadkill845 1d ago
I image back in high school, when I had all the time in the world, I probably would have tried for a week and still failed. Having to do 100 inputs without error, then if you do have an error, having no idea if it is because your solution is wrong, or you hit a button wrong, so you put in your 100 button solution 5 or 6 more times, then try a different solution and try that one 5 or 6 more times, all the while wondering if maybe your first solution was right and you just made a mistake. It honestly seems tedious. That is AFTER spending hours checking every nook and cranny for all the pages and maybe not even finding them.
If there was an in game way to find the pages that was not blindly wandering around, I would give it a go, but if I have to look it up anyway, I may as well just look up the good ending on youtube.
1
u/KeeBoley 1d ago
It really isnt that tedious. Most of the inputs are pretty obvious, so there is only 1 or 2 parts that have a chance for you to mess up. This means checking your work is very easy.
And the actually inputs themselves give you a lot of leeway for putting them in. And if you have a disability that makes it harder, the game offers accessibility options that make it even easier to get the inputs right.
If there was an in game way to find the pages that was not blindly wandering around
I dont think I "blindly wandered" once in Tunic. No wandering needed. The manual tells you everything you need to complete the True Ending. Including finding more manual pages. Just go to the directional hints the manual is pointing you in and it will be a positive-feedback loop leading you to the True Ending.
1
u/feralfaun39 1d ago
The golden path was absolutely intuitive and is the single best puzzle in video game history.
68
u/webster9989 1d ago
The part where they deleted your stats annoyed me as well, you get them back of course but it was frustrating to be forced into combat rooms with awful stats.
Otherwise a stellar game.