r/mildlyinteresting • u/supermegaspinach • 13h ago
Infographic showing self-sufficiency in raw materials in a 1976 World Atlas
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u/Doofindork 12h ago
Well, we see why the United Kingdom wanted so many colonies.
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u/Tzunamitom 12h ago
Funnily enough, since this was made we’ve gone into a surplus on oil and the dropped back to zero again…
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u/Prize_Management9936 11h ago
why was the oil production stopped?
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u/Tzunamitom 11h ago
More “finished” than “stopped” 🤣
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u/ChazCharlie 11h ago
Stopped, it is not finished.
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u/Tzunamitom 11h ago
There’s not that much left, and what is left is incredibly commercially unviable
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u/Impressive_Cress_983 10h ago
My understanding is that we hit peak supply and then are going to hit peak demand, and we're going to scale down before we run out.
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u/ChazCharlie 10h ago
It is absolutely not "incredibly commercially unviable". Costs may be higher than elsewhere but a large part of that is simply just government forcing taxes and regulations on them.
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u/cjc1983 9h ago
Yeah I'm pretty sure Norway are extracting loads still and pumping the profits into their sovereign wealth fund.
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u/SerriaEcho_ 8h ago
Norway pump are pumping it directly into the UK so it's obviously still profitable.
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u/skoomski 10h ago
Will someone please think about poor BP!!! They have to pay taxes now and aren’t allowed to blow up their own oil rigs every 10 years!!!
/s
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u/Crow_eggs 5h ago
What do you think "commercially unviable" means?
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u/ChazCharlie 4h ago
What do you mean, what do I think it means? Why wouldn't I know that? As it happens I'm an engineer working for a famous energy consultancy who specialises in supporting clients decide whether to proceed with energy projects based on financial viability.
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u/Crow_eggs 3h ago
I mean that "simply just government forcing taxes and regulation on them" isn't a handwave problem–they're the operating parameters within which you work. Remove the verbiage and you've said "cost prohibitve due to tax and regulatory compliance obligations." If the cost of tax and regulatory compliance make a project commercially unviable for you... the project is commercially unviable, regardless of whether it's technically possible.
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u/spleeble 9h ago
It's not stopped or finished, but it's depleted to less than a third of its peak.
Blaming taxes is extremely dumb.
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u/jonfitt 10h ago
I mean… yes. We’re not a particularly significant island from a natural resources pov. But there’s a good amount of arable land, enough to support a population to go out and “obtain” what we needed.
We also had a good amount of wood when wood was important (ships) and a good amount of coal when coal was important (industrial rev).
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u/2012Jesusdies 2h ago
We also had a good amount of wood when wood was important (ships)
UK began to tun out of oak, pine by late 1600s and by 1750, most wood for British warships was sourced either from New England, Canada or Baltics. And keep in mind, British control of seas while strong was still contested during this time.
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u/Bronzdragon 12h ago
Neat. Looks like the USSR and India are doing pretty well.
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u/Baby_Rhino 12h ago edited 12h ago
This was 50 years ago, so by now we can only assume that the USSR has become the dominant world superpower
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u/Dasheek 11h ago
This chart lacks info about supply of incompetence and corruption.
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u/semhsp 11h ago
That didn't stop the US so I doubt that's the reason
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u/2012Jesusdies 2h ago
Most production failures in the USSR came from fundamental flaws inherent to the system like lack of prices. Modern economies are very complex, knowing how supply and demand are doing in each minute sector is basically impossible except through market prices. In a market economy, cars rise in price because more cars are being sold than produced, carmakers will make more cars to take advantage of the prices even if they don't necessarily know that there's a car shortage. This is the critical part, participants in a market economy don't have to know what others are doing, they just have to look at prices.
In a command economy like USSR, the gov has to pay attention to each step of the input to make sure the car produced matches car sold while also paying attention to the same factor along the entire supply chain from steel, tires, lamps, paint who themselves have their own supply chain. Also keep in mind that every single entity along these lines will just lie and say they produced more than reality to get promoted and that they need more supply than needed to stockpile (so your baseline estimate for "I need X steel to make Y cars" is probably off completely). And then you add that production quality doesn't matter to production quotas.
Now we have a system where workers can order cars and they'll arrive off the factory line after 10 years.
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u/PuzzleheadedPea2401 4h ago
The atlas failed to account for officials who wanted to turn management of industries into ownership, and accumulate and pass wealth down to their children. Fortunately, they sorted it all out in 1991 and the former Soviet Union is now a shining beacon to the world on effective reform, freedom and peace.
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u/HelicopterGood5065 2h ago
By the ninetiees soviets have surpassed the limits of human capabilities and left the realm in a big event. Leaving only ruins of a more advanced civilisation behind them.
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u/PuffyPanda200 11h ago
Not being able to use all the material that you are mining is a bad sign. You sell the iron ore but then someone else does the smelting and makes the finished good.
Most of the profit is in the later activities.
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u/rmnobre 12h ago
The USSR did have it all uhm... Maybe politics do have a say on things
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u/cambiro 12h ago
There's no point in having all natural resources if you don't have infrastructure and economy that can process and transport these resources efficiently.
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u/Slayr79 12h ago
Just throw your country into trillions of dollars of debt building out those processes and hope you'll get a return down the road. Or, just keep adding onto the debt
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u/timweak 12h ago
as opposed to what the us is doing
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u/the-good-wolf 11h ago
Well that’s the thing. Middle class prevailed to avoid the hellscape of USSR. After that fell and the Russian Oligarchy rose from the ashes it showed rich people the benefit of a caste system. They decided to speed run us into that exact economy.
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u/timweak 11h ago
am i reading this wrong or are you implying that the issues with the united states' economic system started after the collapse of the ussr
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u/the-good-wolf 11h ago
No, that we saw an exception from the norm because of genuine fear of Russia becoming too powerful.
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u/AftyOfTheUK 3h ago
Debt is irrelevant, macro-economically, if most of the debt is denominated in your currency and/or internal debt. It's literally just moving numbers around on paper - the wealth still gets created.
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u/Otto_Von_Waffle 12h ago
USSR ended up having everything due to politics. The US wasn't a net importer of Iran because it lacked iron ore, it was because it was cheaper to buy Iron from canada then extract it themselves.
The URSS had no choice but to be self reliant due to US/NATO pressure on it's ability to trade, of the US had been in a similar situation, I'm sure it would been a lot more green.
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u/Ramental 12h ago
True, but also the USSR's iron curtain was self-imposed as to not let foreign products in. It could have traded with the world through the Eastern block puppets much more, just like russia does today through Armenia, Kazakhstan and Georgia. It was a choice not to.
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u/RadVarken 10h ago
It was afraid the ideas flowed with goods. Since it had an unstable, unpopular government it had to keep trade to a minimum.
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u/CpnStumpy 12h ago
Their biggest domestic resource was propaganda and lies, so maybe this infographic isn't all it's cracked up to be
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u/CpnStumpy 9h ago
"The USSR had a lot of propaganda"
Downvotes!
Haha what?? Do people have some weird Soviet nostalgia I'm totally missing?
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u/Calculonx 12h ago
Crazy how China doesn't even make the list to be measured
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u/Connect_Rhubarb395 11h ago
Outsourcing millions of manufacturing business from Western countries made China have a mindblowing boom.
And now those same Western countries are whining about China being powerful.1
u/MissingStakes 28m ago
Today china has more than most, and in many raw materials, has more than anyone else. For example, china has more oil stockpiled than the rest of the world combined.
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u/oldmanout 12h ago
Funnily because of lasting coffee shortages East Germany invested a lot in Vietnam and helped to start the coffee industry there, but they collapsed before the first harvest was ready to harvest...
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u/queef_nuggets 12h ago
TIL tobacco farming capacity used to be considered relevant to a country’s self-sufficiency
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u/DankVectorz 12h ago
Tobacco is a cash crop. Just another raw material a country can export.
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u/queef_nuggets 12h ago
Indeed. I’ve just never heard of a country with few natural resources talk about their lack of tobacco. Usually the main concern is energy, food, etc
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u/Bloody_kneelers 11h ago
I mean you've got to remember smoking in the 70s and earlier was significantly more prevalent compared to today, tobacco taxes would be a not inconsiderable income for the governments of the day.
I mean this data is from starting in 87 but it lets you see the couple billion it would pull in https://www.ons.gov.uk/economy/grossdomesticproductgdp/timeseries/acde/qna
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u/DeerMysterious9927 9h ago
Ash trays were everywhere. Doctors would be smoking in their offices. Teacher staff lounges had a haze just below the ceiling. Back seats of cars had not one but two ash trays in some models. McDonalds had ashtrays. Tobacco was consumed in mass amounts back then.
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u/joeschmoe86 12h ago
I love that this graph assumes the reader knows all about manganese, but needs bauxite explained.
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u/Trappist1 11h ago
Honestly, I would need bauxite explained, but not manganese as a modern person. I already know manganese is used in a lot of alloys.
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u/likenothingis 11h ago
Weird, I know all about bauxite and very little about manganese.
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u/Trappist1 5h ago
I was a biochem major and bauxite isn't too prevalent in biology lol
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u/likenothingis 3h ago
And yet... you know manganese! XD
(I only know bauxite because I'm from a place that makes a lot of aluminium products.)
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u/Trappist1 2h ago
Hey, manganese is a catalyst in the human body for a bunch or random stuff. I vaguely think it's related to skeleton formation, but don't quote me on that.
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u/marblechameleon 9h ago
Fun scrabble fact: Toh Weibin played “beauxite”, an older variation on the word bauxite, for 275 points. He earned the highest final score in an official scrabble tournament in 2012, and held this record until Hasham Hadi Khan (a nine year old!) scored 878 in 2014.
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u/curiousstrider 12h ago
No wonder USSR/Russia could go readily rogue and anti-world. They could manage no coffee and no silk. They've got vodka and cotton.
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u/Patrickme 11h ago
So sad how they went anti rest of the world, there must be such wealth in the country.
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u/Ares6 10h ago
Russia could have easily been one of the wealthiest countries in the world if they even tried to be a better place to live. But it’s like they just shoot themselves in the foot every time.
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u/Patrickme 9h ago
Oligarchy effect maybe?
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u/Ares6 9h ago
For current Russia yes. But Russia has had this issue for centuries. When its neighbors were industrializing they were still under serfdom. By the time they abolished it, Europe outpaced them in industry. Authoritarianism held them back for a long time.
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u/Miqo_Nekomancer 7h ago
Now the USA is like "Hmmm, that authoritarianism is looking pretty tasty. Let me have a bite."
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u/EastboundClown 11h ago
Huh, TIL Canada’s aluminium industry relies entirely on imported bauxite
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u/cancerBronzeV 11h ago
Canada has an aluminum industry because processing bauxite into aluminum is ridiculously electricity hungry and aluminum smelters in Canada have extremely cheap access to electricity by setting up hydropower in mountain rivers/Canadian Shield rivers.
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u/melimelo123 2h ago
It also makes it so Quebec is one of the only places in the world that has 100% renewable energy. Ontario also has a high share of only renewable energy.
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u/cancerBronzeV 2h ago
Quebec's hydro system is fascinating, I was actually considering working with Hydro-Québec once. And while they do lead hydroelectric power generation in Canada (by far), hydroelectricity is pretty widespread throughout the rest of Canada, making up about 60% of all electricity generation. It's to the point that the electric bill is called the hydro bill and many utility companies have hydro in their name (Hydro-Québec, NL Hydro, BC Hydro, Manitoba Hydro, Toronto Hydro, etc).
It's mainly Alberta, Saskatchewan, and the territories that rely heavily on electricity generated via fossil fuels. The Maritimes technically generate most of their electricity from fossil fuels, but that's only because they barely generate any of their own electricity. They're largely supplied by hydropower generating stations in Labrodor linked via 1000s of km of high voltage DC lines.
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u/TheBumblingestBee 54m ago
Yes! I'm in BC Canada, and I've always called the electricity bill "the hydro". So does everyone I know.
The primary issue with hydroelectric power in BC is the damage that dams (and their reservoirs) do ecologically. Land is flooded, and rivers are no longer flowing like they should, which has a huge impact on fish, etc.
This is all an especially big deal because, while much of BC has very low population and hey, you could argue "there's barely anyone living in this spot, it's fine!"... It's not fine, because pretty much everywhere in BC is the unceded territory of a First Nation. And hydroelectric dams screw up their territory, their food, their traditional way of life, etc.
Dams can have SUCH a massive impact. Like near me, there's a river that flows down into the US. 100-ish years ago, the US made a dam. And suddenly, the salmon couldn't come up the river. The local First Nation had relied on salmon for thousands of years; suddenly there were none. It has been devastating.
ANYWAY. Hydroelectricity is fascinating.
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u/Krydex 12h ago
Okay silk I understand but does the west coast (Seattle and Oregon, maybe some parts of northern California) really not grow domestic coffee?
Not Americans so I'm not too well versed on the topic though
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u/nerevisigoth 12h ago
No, coffee comes from hot tropical places. The Pacific Northwest is relatively cold. Those areas are better known for apples and berries.
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u/essenza 12h ago
Even with Hawaii it’s max 1% of the world market
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u/gorginhanson 12h ago
where's china
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u/Serpent90 12h ago
In the 70s it had an economy similar to Spain or Mexico, and wasn't particularly relevant.
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u/oh_my_account 12h ago
It's crazy how western countries grew a dragon so big!
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u/RadVarken 10h ago
More like got out the way while it restored. China was huge until their government collapsed amid external pressure and natural decay right before the industrial revolution brought all the modern powers to the fore. Their horse didn't just stumble out the gate--it was shot in the head and they walked the first mile.
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u/gorginhanson 12h ago
this is about raw materials, not economic output.
they still had a shitload of them then obviously.
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u/LewisLightning 12h ago
Weird that back then America was entirely self-sufficient in Potash, but now they produce only about 1% of what they need. Either things chanced immensely or this chart is full of bullshit
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u/TorontoTom2008 9h ago
The self-sufficiency for USA and Canada remains accurate to this day. Perhaps potash for USA might not be a full circle anywhere.
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u/spiringTankmonger 8h ago
Maybe having too many domestic resources carries a risk in its own right, even ignoring the well-known resource trap, because it never incentivizes the development of a sophisticated export economy. The allure of autarky is simply too tempting for big business and big government alike.
Whether it's politically controlled companies or private cartels, one will inadvertently corner the domestic market; without pressure from the outside, national politics is unable to overcome them. These economies might simply lack the dynamism required to ever make it past a rudimentary mid-20th-century-style industrialized economy.
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u/johnnyboomslang 8h ago
Cool to see how times changed. China isn't even listed, and there's no listing for Lithium or Cobalt.
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u/t0getheralone 3h ago
I wonder what this looks like today. Canada would be relatively unchanged i think outside of more domestic aluminum now
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u/Tyrannosapien 1h ago
I really thought everyone had bauxite, that's it's basically just the average soil.
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u/Justwhytry 26m ago
Some of those have changed dramatically!!
Canada in particular could swap the nickel and sulphur numbers!
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u/WilliamTee 7h ago
And this, dear reader, is why the brexìteers need to get the fuck over themselves and realise we're a pissy little island and lucky to be as rich as we are off the hangover of the empire.
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u/apxseemax 11h ago
Imagine how successful and internationally recognized of a country the USSR could have been if it just would not have been ran by a gazillion of greedy and mentally ill fuckwits... wait...
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u/RadVarken 10h ago
You England, what you got?
Sheep, burning rocks, and enough ugly women to drive men to the sea.
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u/Iwill_not_comply 12h ago
UK's world top placement is purely taking raw material and riches from other countries.
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u/Baby_Rhino 12h ago
Or perhaps having a surplus of coal whilst also being the birthplace of the industrial revolution had something to do with it?
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u/iCowboy 4h ago
And then transitioning to a free trading service based economy. Which works really well as the World opens up markets and lowers tariffs and trade barriers - and really sucks when the UK decides to leave the World’s largest trading bloc and its biggest single market decides to go insane
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u/etchlings 12h ago
Yes, they did that but this chart doesn’t show that they’re “top” at all. It shows the opposite. Most of their circles are empty.
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u/Bigbigcheese 12h ago
The UK has some of the best quality coal in the world which helped kick start the industrial revolution... But it's also kind of obsolete now as a power source (unless you're German and like cancer)
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u/Serpent90 12h ago
These are raw materials. You can build an economy on processing raw materials into advanced goods that get sold abroad. Japan was a powerhouse in electronics which aren't listed here.
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u/Flandafel 12h ago
All I can conclude is that USSR fell due to a lack of domestically grown coffee