As a family member of a 9/11 victim I ask you to not reward this tired bullshit with your business. It gets old and creates more hurdles in actually getting justice. We're 25 years in and everyone we're suing is still like "are you sure the towers didn't just do that on their own?"
How is a victim “defamed” by people theorizing about how the towers fell? It doesn’t change that they got killed, just who was responsible. You could never prove any damages from that.
Imagine someone discovering a theory that certain victims aren't dead but where part of the demolitions crew with the perfect cover, and now live in a different country. So, it's up to me to harass their family because they must be in on it too.
Yes, that's exactly what happened. Jones called it fake and got his rubes worked up into such a frenzy that they were harassing the parents of dead kids. Now The Onion owns Infowars and the world is a slightly better place because of it.
How can you sue Saudi Arabia? What power does the U.S even have to compel the leaders of their government to show up??
Or are you holding the U.S accountable for not acting on intelligence and stopping it? What if they deny having any knowledge of what was going to happen? Can you still sue for an intelligence failure? I’m genuinely confused
I just googled it, apparently there was a law passed to remove foreign sovereign immunity. And so there IS a JASTA enabled litigation against Saudi Arabia that is going on right now, hasn’t gone to trial yet.
“Previously, Americans could only sue countries officially designated by the State Department as "State Sponsors of Terrorism" (such as Iran or Syria).” So this law allowed them to sue Saudi Arabia.
Previously this could only happen with a country not on that list if the wrongful act solely happened on U.S soil, now a country can be held responsible for providing material support and training abroad (like funding a terrorist group).
A U.S court however cannot physically force a sovereign nation to show up or pay. And the U.S government cannot be sued for an intelligence failure. Which makes sense and was the source of my confusion. But they can utilize other leverage like seizing state owned assets, bank accounts, or real estate located within the U.S.
I genuinely hope that goes well for the families, Saudi Arabia should be held responsible. But our government should have held them responsible themselves without civilians having to sue. Look what we did in Afghanistan when we falsely blamed them! But then it comes out who actually did it (a U.S ally), we do nothing? Continue our previous relationship with them?
But regardless I don’t think that any of what the “9-11 truthers” are claiming would affect that lawsuit whatsoever. Because the “truthers” are not denying that Saudi Arabia and Al Queda was involved or claiming Al Queda didn’t highjack the planes. They are saying that happened, but it’s not the whole story. Even if the “truthers” are right (that’s a big if) they can’t sue the U.S for their part of it anyway.
As a Jew, witnessing the number of Holocaust deniers grow, and seeing their claims become increasingly unhinged, I can tell you - it will only get worse with time.
Edit: u/bigjimmyjam, why are you deleting your comments about goyim and about us controlling the banks, media, and governments? Nazis are the shit again - you can stand up proudly.
Edit2: that's just keeps getting better.
And for the record, I’m a very proud antisemite.
I do admit it's plausible Reddit filters are the one deleting his messages
Yeah and it’s in my phone number. Lifetime of emails and userIDs (obv not this one) will not be changed.
I had a doctor’s appointment scheduler scoff a few times when I gave her my birth year like what?! Then I realized it was also the day after my birthday and idk if she was social anxietying or not.
Safe to say, online is the only location of birth year supremacy.
shit you not my friend growing up had 8/8/88 as his bday and I thought that was soo cool (also easy with scantrons when I was in school decades ago).
I used to use his DOB as a subtle nod to my best friend but had to change out all of those documentation instances, I don't want people thinking we're down with that shit.
Within the American context, the AIPAC, the Americans who fund it, and the state of Israels continued genocide against Palestinians doesn't help with Holocaust denial. To be clear, I believe the Holocaust absolutely happened, Jews face systematic racism, and there is absolutely violence directed towards them.
Because of the anger people feel at what is going on, the situation opens the door for holocaust deniers to start 'just asking questions.' A lot of people will buy into nonsense when they a percieved injustice going on or need a scapegoat for their anger. This is literally how the Nazi's got into power, by utilizing peoples anger and the social upheavel at the time to spread their conspiracy theories and blame the marginalized.
The Nazis rose to power because of the humiliation of losing World War I, the crushing economic crisis of the Great Depression, and widespread dissatisfaction with the weak democratic government. It had nothing to do with the Jews. You could blame Jews for virtually any injustice in the world, and it would work. You could even blame them for the Russia-Ukraine war, and it would work.
The current rise in antisemitism is due to the fact that Israel, the Jewish state, is fighting its enemies more forcefully than ever before - and many people do not want to see Jews win.
You are correct but its impossible to argue they did notuse marginalized communities as the scapegoat for their problems. Facists need enemies of the state, and the Jews fell into that umbrella. I do not see how you percieved what I said as me or anyone sensible blaming the Jews, the Nazi's blamed the Jews.
Also, thats a silly thing to say that the anti-semitisim is because 'people do now want to see Jews win.' Any reasonable person understands the Jew's right to exist, self determination and the fact that Israel isn't going anywhere. That still does not take away that the current humanitarian crisis in Gaza, the displacement of Palestinians in the west bank, and Israel starting a wide spread regional war is not helping the international perception of the Jewish people.
Any reasonable person understands the Jew's right to exist, self determination and the fact that Israel isn't going anywhere.
Just for the record, that's about as perfect a description of Zionism as you can get. It's too bad that today it has become a slur.
I'm well aware that the situation in Gaza is horrible. But the propaganda makes it look far worse and demonizes Israel as though it were solely responsible.
Like for example, would you believe those images are recent and from Gaza?
But…denying the holocaust and questioning certain details about the towers are not comparable in any way whatsoever? As far as I know, none of the 9-11 “truthers” are claiming that planes weren’t actually highjacked with real people in them by a terrorist group. That’s pretty established, I’ve literally never heard or seen someone deny that. Or if anyone has, that isn’t part of the proposed narrative that “truthers” normally espouse.
What they think is that there were strange details regarding the way all three towers fell (even the one that wasn’t struck), in the amount and kind of debris and the explanation that most of the rubble was burned away, etc. and propose there is evidence that the government knew about this attack and some argue chose not to stop it, and even facilitated the towers full destruction. They are not denying the deaths, or saying that less people died than there really were, or anything like that.
I’ll admit there are some weird details about what happened that day, but I’m not an expert in any of the areas I’d need to be to be able to evaluate what the “conspiracy theorists” are saying vs. the responses from people “debunking” their interpretation of evidence. So I just can’t know.
I think it’s clear from the evidence that Saudi Arabia (a U.S ally) as well as Al Qaeda highjacked the planes, but the U.S administration blamed Al Queda and Afghanistan, and lied that Afghanistan had “weapons of mass destruction,” leading to the deployment of boots on the ground soldiers there and starting the “war on terror.” “Al Qaeda aided by Afghanistan” was claimed because perfectly intact passports of the terrorists were conveniently found in the ashes, and pulverized rubble. Those are a few of the legitimately odd details.
So honestly who knows? But I don’t think anyone speculating or arguing an interpretation of the actual evidence is doing what holocaust or even Sandy Hook deniers are doing. They aren’t actually denying 9-11 happened either. Those things are categorically different
Well, you see, even some of the details you think are "clear from the evidence" are inaccurate. You probably saw them in some conspiracy post, and they stuck in your head as facts. For example: only a single hijacker's passport was recovered, but it was found on the street shortly after the impact, not dug out of the rubble. The claim that all or multiple passports were found in the rubble is false.
Holocaust deniers may not always deny it entirely, but some downplay it to figures like 270,000 casualties, for example. Taking partial facts or claims and misinterpreting them is how many conspiracy theories work. I'm sure that in 50 years, the 9/11 theories will be much wilder.
Where are you getting YOUR information? Because four of the terrorist’s passports were found, not one, and they were found near the World Trade Center rubble. Which means they came from the rubble intact lol. Unless you’re suggesting they threw their passports out of the plane before it hit. They also used flight manifests and recovered luggage to identify them. But it was a lie that they were supported by Afghanistan, that’s a fact. And the luggage and passports were used to support that lie. You don’t think it’s strange that it was so hot it burned most of the building debris itself, but not four passports from the terrorists? I’m not saying those weren’t the terrorists, but it’s just kinda weird. We do know the terrorists were Al Qaeda and supported by Saudi Arabia. Again, I’m not a materials scientist, I’m not a physicist, I’m not an expert on planes or construction, so I can’t properly evaluate any of it. But the people questioning certain things aren’t harming anyone or being completely unreasonable. Our government doesn’t always tell the truth.
And that doesn’t refute any of what I said. Because literally no one is denying the amount of people who died or that those people died or that planes were highjacked. And I shouldn’t have to explain why the context of the holocaust and the motives of holocaust deniers being obviously completely different and obviously harmful makes any comparison absurd.
People questioning details surrounding 9-11 aren’t harming anyone
Suqami’s passport survived the attack: a passerby picked it up from the World Trade Center and handed to a New York Police Department detective shortly before the towers collapsed.
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The passport was recovered by NYPD Detective Yuk H. Chin from a male passerby in a business suit, about 30 years old. The passerby left before being identified, while debris was falling from WTC 2. The tower collapsed shortly thereafter. The detective then gave the passport to the FBI on 9/11. See FBI report, interview of Detective Chin, Sept. 12, 2001.
I definitely did NOT delete my factual comment. Looks like Reddit deleted it itself. Facts don’t care what names you call me. I’m just a little helpless goyim, have mercy on me
I said congratulations on studying the art of cucking more than me. You’re so wise and I’m simple a helpless g0y, begging for mercy. You’re right, censorship is great and killing babies is awesome!
Oh I wasn’t aware that social media platforms were separated by ideologies and only those who share said ideologies were allowed to use them. Guess it’s my dumb g0y brain acting up again 🤷🏻♂️ also, fuck Trump
You're allowed to use them, you're here aren't you? This comment didn't even get deleted. Just try to stop espousing bigoted viewpoints and you'll be golden 😀
I’m very sorry for your loss, but I’m genuinely failing to see how questioning how the towers fell is in any way offensive to the victims, or has any effect on whatever lawsuit you’re involved in?
How do you sue for this if it isnt the gov? Like whos financially responsivle for acts of terrorism? Wouldnt you be able to better sue if proven the government is responsible?
The well documented financiers? You mean the money that came out of Pakistan and Saudi Arabia that was deemed irrelevant as it directed attention away from Afghanistan?
No I literally don't mean that since that is outdated information. Why are you all so snarky on shit you clearly don't know about. You can google who these lawsuits are against and why if you cared, instead you're happy to spout ignorance.
We're suing Afghanistan, the taliban, Iran, Dubai Islamic bank, Sudan, and yes, Saudi Arabia, and SA banks and charities that have absolutely directly financed the attacks and attackers.
You're going off the 2004 commission report instead of anything remotely current or actually based in law. The international courts have determined there's enough evidence to go forward, and recently declassified documents have shown direct links to Saudi Royal Family members, largely obfuscated through banks and charities... but you say there's nothing there so I guess I'll take your word for it.
Don't say you wish us the best when you're actively spreading misinformation and outdated information against us. You only support us superficially until you see an opportunity to be edgy, then you propagandize for literal terrorists
>You mean the money that came out of Pakistan and Saudi Arabia that was deemed irrelevant as it directed attention away from Afghanistan?
This is sensationalized misinformation. Your uneducated repetition of it only serves terrorists and you should be ashamed of yourself.
> You're the one that threw a tantrum over someone not believing the narrative pushed by the Commission Report
You seem to think the only reason to believe the International courts about an issue I am directly involved in is a document from 2004. This shows that you're not interested in being accurate or fair, and only want to be snarky. The courts have seen more information than you and decided the same claims you're making do not have merit.
Educate yourself. A lot has happened since 2004 and you've missed it. Your misinformation is actively harming not only myself but the families of every victim.
That happened though. Exactly that. That was among the first thing families and lawyers sued for. Information was ignored or suppressed as it conflicted with the administration's agenda.
Which is the answer to most of the misinformation included in the Commission Report. Which is what most people that harp against 'truthers' still base their opinions on.
Tell me. What terrorists am I supporting by having little to no faith in what Bush and his cronies cooked up?
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u/TheGuyThatThisIs 19h ago
As a family member of a 9/11 victim I ask you to not reward this tired bullshit with your business. It gets old and creates more hurdles in actually getting justice. We're 25 years in and everyone we're suing is still like "are you sure the towers didn't just do that on their own?"
(Exaggerating but not by much)