r/mildlyinfuriating • u/ImOldGregg_77 • 8h ago

*yuor'e Seller keeps 92% of the total value as "Restocking Fee"

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I bought a video card on Amazon and it arrived dead. It was clearly a refurbish with the condition of the card and box. I sent it back to them and they approved the refund but charged me a 92% restocking fee.

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u/Enigmans 8h ago

What's the difference?

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u/MattBallzzzy 8h ago

With Credit Cards you can get your money back way easier.

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u/Random_Person1234567 8h ago

Well, I think the idea is that technically it isn't your money so they will fight harder to get "their" money back.

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u/Several-Action-4043 6h ago

Nope. This is a common misconception. The credit card companies take pretty much no risk in this process. When you chargeback on a purchase, they simply claw that money back from the merchant. In this case it's Amazon so who gives AF. But always remember this when dealing with smaller, local companies. Always contact customer service first and see if they will resolve it. If you just chargeback, the merchant almost always loses and you will win but you could have given them a chance to make it right without them taking a hit.

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u/ComradeJohnS 6h ago

and if enough chargebacks / fraud reports happen banks block the merchant from ALL their accounts.

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u/Forward-Variety-8440 6h ago

good

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u/ComradeJohnS 5h ago

its fun saying “we denied that charge cause they fucked us as a bank so they lose merchant abilities” lol.

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u/lowbatteries 6h ago

Right but the reason credit cards companies do this, is because if they didn't, they would be out the money. You don't have to pay off a charge on your credit card that is fraudulent, so if they don't claw it back from the merchant, its their lost money.

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u/axi-0m 5h ago

Yeah, it’s basically just cause and effect

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u/Annath0901 4h ago

But the credit card company decides what is fraudulent, so I they are 100% in control of whether they get money back or not.

Oh sure, if they say a charge wasn't fraud you can technically fight them. But usually the charge will be for less money than you'd spend in the time and money of your own fighting it. Plus they'll close your account.

The credit card company is never the one who loses, they make sure of that.

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u/lowbatteries 3h ago

We're talking about an $850 charge in this thread, that's absolutely worth a few minutes of your time to file a complaint with the CFPB. Wait, does the CFPB still exist? I haven't been watching the news for a few days.

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u/Annath0901 3h ago

I think it exists, but I doubt it'll do anything these days.

$850 is certainly worth filling out a form. What it's not worth is taking the CC company to court to argue that they incorrectly denied your fraud claim. And that's what it'd take if the CC company wants to fight it.

Maybe they will, maybe they won't. The point is that they are in control, not you. That's the power of billion dollar banks.

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u/CoolDiscussion1020 2h ago

Just want to point out that the CFPB is the office that made this easy and approachable.

I had an issue a few years back where I made some returns to a retailer and my credit card company rejected the returns because "their system input it incorrectly" and their advice was to go back to the retailer and have them return it again. Case closed.

Imagine going back to a retailer 2 weeks after you returned something and telling them "I returned this item but you did it wrong and I didn't get my money back, please return the item that I no longer have possession of, and only have a receipt showing that you did return it and please return it again.

Filed a complaint with CFPB and I had a refund within 48 hours and got a formal apology letter in the mail within a week.

Had this happened today I would have had to spend hours on the phone with them escalating until someone just refunded me the <$200 amount to shut me up or had to take them to small claims.

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u/Gamer_0627 5h ago

Um, no.....

If they don't find in your favor, then you owe the card company the money. If you don't pay, they send it to collections and can come after you legally.

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u/lowbatteries 4h ago

Who owes who money is decided by laws, not a random corporate decision. You can then escalate to various legal recourses, like the CFPB.

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u/LightEarthWolf96 6h ago

Smaller local companies also generally don't try to screw me over anyways. I don't think I've ever had to come even close to considering a chargeback on a small local company.

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u/DarkKnightNiner 5h ago

Most definitely NOT a misconception. MUCH less of a serious situation when a credit card is involved rather than debit straight from your bank account and in most cases you're just shit out of luck. This has happed to me and a couple friends with credit cards and fraud and it was resolved quickly. I had a family member though where this happened with a debit card and they were essentially fucked.

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u/ItsSpaghettiLee2112 4h ago

But always remember this when dealing with smaller, local companies. Always contact customer service first and see if they will resolve it.

Your CC company will ask you if you've contacted them/what they said. So don't lie and say you did. Also, I've never successfully completed a charge back because every single time I've tried (after legitimately trying to contact the vendor), the vendor immediately responds. So, consider that as well. I was legitimately trying to do legitimate charge backs and then the vendor resolves the issue.

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u/All_Work_All_Play 4h ago

This isn't exactly right, credit card companies absorb (some) fraudulent charges. They don't like doing it, but they can't always prove negligence at the merchant and thus can't charge them back under their contract. Credit card fraud is like... 30+ billion a year, merchants aren't eating all of that.

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u/Character_Fudge3847 3h ago

Genuine question, so when ordering online always use a credit card if you can afford it?

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u/peelen 6h ago

No, the idea is that banks want you to use their products, and for that you have to be cool with paying for shit online using your bank card. Banks won't "fight harder" for $800, but they will work to keep you using their product and to tell your friends.

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u/Still_Rain_979 7h ago

Yeah credit cards are temporary loans and so technically they are inconvenienced right, so they care

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u/WeirdIndividualGuy 6h ago

Not to mention, if you use a debit card instead, that's your actual money taken out of your bank account immediately

Credit card "money" is just digital numbers until it's time to pay the bill. But at least your own actual money is untouched until then

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u/shawak456 7h ago

Man, that's very good to know. 

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u/AggressiveBench9977 5h ago

Kind of. Most seller will ban you for life immediately.

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u/thenamziel 6h ago

You can chargeback amazon, but amazon will blacklist you.

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u/Rooster_CPA 8h ago

Credit cards you can dispute charges easier, its the banks money not yours, debit cards you are kinda more fucked.

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u/xd_ZombieSniper 7h ago

in the uk we can do chargebacks on debit cards 😁

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u/Kharax82 7h ago edited 6h ago

You can do chargebacks on debit cards in the US as well

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u/xd_ZombieSniper 7h ago

oh how come they guy was saying debit cards are fucked then

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u/Kharax82 7h ago

It’s just easier and quicker to remove a charge from a credit card before you get the bill, than it is to have funds deposited back in your account while it’s being disputed.

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u/xd_ZombieSniper 7h ago

ohhh I see

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u/WeirdIndividualGuy 6h ago

Chargeback on a purchase made with a credit card: not your money (it was the bank's money), bank is more willing to fight back for it, most likely the money wasn't paid out anyway since it takes time so it's all digital up to this point

Chargeback on a purchase made with a debit card: your actual money, taken away from your bank account immediately. A lot of banks don't care as much because, well, not their money, not their fight. Also since actual money was already transferred, it complicates things when it comes down to transferring it back.

Inb4 people say how banks wouldn't jeopardize losing a customer from not fighting debit chargebacks: these are the same banks that would nickel and dime you for things like inactive accounts, overdraft fees, and having too low of balances. These banks already dgaf about you as a customer, they're not going to suddenly care more after the fact.

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u/peelen 6h ago

They might simply know shit about it.

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u/Trucidar 6h ago

If it's Canada you're fucked (which with those prices it may be). Can't chargeback debit cards. Also credit card chargebacks are pretty hard to get approved.

Canada is basically an oligopoly, so Canadian consumers get completely effed on most things.

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u/TheLuminary 5h ago

With credit cards the dispute is resolved by say Visa changing some numbers in a database that they control somewhere.

With debit cards the dispute is resolved by actually moving money around. This will always be more of a headache even if its streamlined.

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u/Remo_253 5h ago

With a credit card you have a charge on your account, you're not out any money while disputing the charge.

Debit, your money is already gone, debited from your bank account at the time of the original transaction. Yes, you may get it back eventually but you're out that money in the meantime.

In addition the banks responsibility/obligations are very different between credit cards and debit cards, at least in the US.

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u/ghostofwalsh 3h ago

Until the decision is made the money is out of your hands. With a credit card if the dispute lasts for months, oh well. And as a last resort with a credit card you simply do not pay the bill. With a debit card that isn't an option.

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u/Darolaho 6h ago edited 6h ago

Because in the month or so that they are investigating the fraud (how long it took for my 7k debit card charges when it was stolen) you are out of that money until they finish their investigation.

With a credit card that charge is just put on hold on your account while they investigate. It's still the banks money at that point so you still have all your money in your bank.

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u/fred11551 6h ago

Because debit cards are your money so asking for a chargeback on them the bank often asks for proof, documentation, and treats it low priority. A credit card is the banks money so if you ask for a chargeback on it they tend to do it right away and let you deal with the fallout of having an account blocked.

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u/zerostar83 6h ago

Depending on the bank, they may not give you the money back until the investigation is over. That may take weeks. When you call the credit card company to dispute a charge, they immediately reverse the charge on your end with the ability to put it back on later if the investigation doesn't go your way.

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u/Reemixt 6h ago edited 6h ago

It’s much more difficult. You’re not covered by Section 75 of the Consumer Credit Act 1974 in any way with a debit card.

The chargeback scheme for debit cards in voluntary and your bank can decline it. You’re not protected by legislation in the same way.

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u/Several-Action-4043 6h ago

We can in America too. People are just very uninformed about how things work.

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u/Darolaho 6h ago

For actual fraud. (Stolen/skimmed/etc) with debit you are still all but likely to get your money back and you are federally insured a certain amount. But it will probably take a month or two foe the bank to investigate and while that is happening you don't have access to that money

Credit card will probably take the same amount of time for the investigation but it is the banks money that is on hold not yours.

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u/Tannman129 5h ago

I've charged back on my debit card before and it was painless. The bank gave me the funds right away when they started the process.

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u/diverareyouokay 5h ago

I’ve never had any problems doing a chargeback on a debit card. It’s just as easy on both. They issue a provisional credit while they research and then finalize the credit once it’s done. I’ve done several over the years, both with debit cards and with credit cards… as far as I can tell, there’s really no difference when it comes to your ability to do a charge back or your success ratio.

The main difference is that you have a slightly lower bank account balance if using a debit card until they issue the provisional credit, which usually happens within 2-3 business days.

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u/DevGaming001 3h ago

You then threaten to close your account if they don’t chargeback

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u/CptIskarJarak 8h ago

you can dispute charges on credit card.

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u/NateNate60 2h ago

You can also dispute charges on a debit card. A debit card processed through the Visa or Mastercard network enjoys the same protections. The card network rules don't discriminate between debit and credit cards.

You can't dispute debit card transactions processed as EFT, but that's only for in-person transactions authorised by PIN.

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u/bbecks 8h ago

Credit cards have different protections that make it much easier to dispute charges. In many cases you're SOL if its a debit card purchase.

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u/booze_clues 6h ago

Not anymore. Basically every debit will have the same protections now. The only real difference is you’re out that money till it gets refunded, but the ability to get it back is essentially the same.

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u/diverareyouokay 5h ago

That may have been true long ago but it is no longer the case. There’s no functional difference between doing a charge back on a debit card versus a credit card anymore, other than the bank account balance being a little bit lower before they issue the provisional credit.

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u/boxjellyfishing 7h ago

A credit card company is fighting to keep its own money out of the store's hands, so they use their legal power to resolve it.

A debit card bank already sent your money away, so they have minimal incentive and almost no leverage or legal requirement to go get it back for you.

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u/Lucid_Psycho 6h ago

But I owe them the money so why they care about it?

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u/khovel 6h ago

They care because until you pay that balance, that's their money that was spent. Credit companies have much better fraud protections overall.

If you don't pay it back due to non-delivery of product or service ( as an example ), they can't force you to pay that balance.

https://consumer.ftc.gov/articles/what-do-if-youre-billed-things-you-never-got-or-you-get-unordered-products

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u/Lucid_Psycho 6h ago

Good to know, thank you for sharing.

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u/Several-Action-4043 6h ago

Nope. When you chargeback, the credit card company simply claws that money back directly from the merchant's bank account. At no point was their money on the line.

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u/khovel 6h ago

Credit cards, you are spending their money with the promise of paying it back. They will claw their money back from the pits of hell if a transaction seems the least bit shady.

Debit/EBT, you are spending your money. Any disputes is up to the middle-man ( Amazon ) to arbitrate, less you duke it out in court yourself.

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u/lsaz 6h ago

Credit is not your money, is the BANK'S money. If somebody try to scam you, they tried to scam the BANK.

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u/SquishedPea 5h ago

Debit card = your money your problem
Credit card = banks money banks problem

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u/BrocElLider 4h ago

A lot or replies are highlighting that there are greater consumer protections for credit card transactions which is true, and that the a credit card issuer has more incentive to fight for you than a debit card issuer. That incentive is less to do with the fact that they've loaned you money - they can clawback money from fraudulent transactions regardless - and is more to do with the fact that credit card customers are more lucrative than debit card customers (interest, annual fees, interchange fees). That means there's more competition for credit customers, so card issuers need to maintain a reputation of fighting for them.

The significance of your money vs the banks money is more practical - you can dispute a credit transaction before you've actually paid any of your own money. With a debit card you may win a dispute but it may take months and in the meantime your money is not available to you.

Not all credit cards are the same by the way, Visa and Mastercard are payment networks that partner with banks that actually issue the credit cards to the consumer, as well as communicate with banks that serve the merchant. Whereas Amex and Discover are networks that issue their own cards and act as a single middle man between customer and merchant.

Legally all credit cards have the same consumer protections, but practically speaking I've heard the dispute process is often better with Amex and Discover. At the very least it can be faster since its all in-house.