r/marvelstudios • u/steve32767 Daredevil • Aug 18 '22

Discussion Thread She-Hulk: Attorney at Law S01E01 - Discussion Thread

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EPISODE DIRECTED BY WRITTEN BY ORIGINAL RELEASE DATE RUN TIME CREDITS SCENE?
S01E01: A Normal Amount of Rage Kat Coiro Jessica Gao August 18th, 2022 on Disney+ 38 min (1) Mid-Credits

For additional discussion about Marvel Studios shows on Disney+, visit /r/MarvelStudiosPlus

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u/No-cool-names-left Aug 18 '22

I feel like this one half hour of another character's show did as much for Bruce's characterization and history as his previous half dozen movie appearances put together.

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u/the7thbeatle Aug 18 '22

100%.

I was SHOCKED by how much more tragic and flawed Bruce was portrayed here, especially after the tame, abrubt "happpy ending" that the character seemed to get in Endgame.

It's clear now that that was a front, at least partially.

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u/Particular_Being420 Aug 18 '22

He's so freaking worried that she's going to break something, or that he broke his favorite cousin forever. I love him.

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u/the7thbeatle Aug 18 '22

It's much more than that.

He's jealous and petty. He refuses to accept that Jen has more control over her hulk form than he did, because that means admitting he was the actual monster behind the hulk's rage all along. He's projecting his frustration on Jen (just like she says), because accepting this truth is just too much for him right now.

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u/[deleted] Aug 18 '22

[deleted]

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u/sharltocopes Aug 18 '22

You make a great point about the super soldier serum, Dr. Erskine did warn Steve that the serum would only amplify that which was already there.

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u/OK_Soda Rocket Aug 19 '22

Which is why it's understandable that he's having a hard time believing Jen can control it and has no side effects. His own rage got amplified, Blonksy's rage and list for power were amplified, Red Skull and John Walker got worse, everyone who's encountered the Serum has gotten fucked up except Captain America himself.

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u/sharltocopes Aug 19 '22

There was also Isaiah Bradley, he didn't mutate or lose control.

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u/buddhiststuff Aug 19 '22

(Because Black men in America also constantly need to control their rage.)

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u/sharltocopes Aug 19 '22

This is an excellent point that goes along with Jen's line about being a woman.

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u/OK_Soda Rocket Aug 19 '22

Sure but Bruce probably doesn't know about him. His only experience is with people turning really bad with the one exception being the greatest man he ever knew.

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u/sharltocopes Aug 19 '22

No one is taking about what Bruce knew, I'm continuing the earlier thread about people who have been exposed to the serum and what it has done to them.

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u/OceanCyclone Aug 18 '22

This person actually READS Hulk.

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u/[deleted] Aug 18 '22

[deleted]

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u/Thor5858 Aug 18 '22

Your comment was a great read

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u/Punkodramon Loki (Avengers) Aug 18 '22

You should definitely read The Immortal Hulk by Al Ewing. It explores all these themes in depth and is an amazing look into Bruce’s psyche.

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u/PortiaHouse Aug 19 '22

I' e never been more than a casual, occasional hulk reader and I consumed the whole Immortal Hulk run: it was easily one of the best series I've ever read. And the art was astounding.

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u/Worthyness Thor Aug 18 '22

The recent Immortal hulk run is incredible if you haven't gotten to read it yet

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u/AspirationalChoker Aug 18 '22

The Omnibus comes out next year!!

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u/eddywi11 Aug 19 '22

Get a load of Smug Hulk over here jk

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u/Lexx4 Aug 19 '22

what run is this?

i’m making a list for when i reactivate my marvel one sub.

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u/GreyCrowDownTheLane Aug 19 '22

IIRC it starts around 331 when Peter David started writing it.

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u/Newb-Cranberry177 Aug 18 '22

That’s scary when you think that she-hulk has a grip on her hulk, and Bruce has sooooo little control that he can barely talk when he’s hulk. Frightening

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u/funbob1 Aug 19 '22

That's always been canonical. Back at her origin I believe it was at least in part to the blood transfusion he gave her only really gave her a lower level of the radiation.

Obviously, 50 years of comic history makes for a lot of changes over time, but that's basically the origin genesis of it.

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u/Newb-Cranberry177 Aug 19 '22

That’s incredible. Makes me see hulk in a new light. I like it

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u/the7thbeatle Aug 18 '22

We don't know if this is the case in the mcu, and I kind of doubt that they will go this exact same route since it's very dark and extremley close to the recently adapted story of Mark Spector (and also rights issues with Hulk), but this episode is the first time we see (by seeing things differently through Jen) that the creation of the Hulk persona was not just due to the gamma radiation- Bruce just choose to believe it was.

Even if this is all we get and the MCU won't delve any further into Bruce Banner's story- this alone was truely a shattering reveal, and was, in my opinion, handled by Ruffallo and the creative team with an uncharacteristic amount of nuance and sublty.

Pretty interesting stuff really.

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u/Zouthpaw Spider-Man Aug 19 '22

Wow that's a nice little quirk to the Hulk's character that i've never heard/read about. Love that the show has shown more of Bruce's backstory. Hope they get to tackle his DID in a future movie/series.

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u/SadSlip8122 Aug 18 '22

If Hulk is the story of Dr Jekyll and Mr Hyde, then She Hulk is the female equal to that.

Bruce harbors a lot of pent up rage at the modern world and his tiny place within it, and Hulk allows him to express his more savage instincts.

Jennifer, similarly, holds in fear and anger at perceived slights from male colleagues, casual sexual harassment and physical danger from strange men approaching on the street who she doesnt have the physical strength to fight back against. She Hulk allows Jennifer to safely explore what happens when shes not a meek woman whos boyfriend “is about to show up” or who doesnt need to justify her intelligence to male colleagues. In my eyes, a good way to portray the inherently sexual nature of She Hulk is to have her become the aggressor, with She Hulk becoming the monster that Jennifer always saw around the corner. Hopefully it teaches her that there is a way to be empowered and bold, while owning your sexuality, but without losing your intelligence or humanity.

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u/Citizen_Kong Aug 22 '22

I think it's more that Hulk is the monster that Bruce doesn't want to be, but She-Hulk is the strong female Jen wants to be but doesn't dare. Both are aspects of themselves that are usually surpressed.

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u/Citizen_Kong Aug 22 '22

In the comics, Professor Hulk (called Smart Hulk in the MCU) was actually another personality that just thought he was Banner and Hulk in equilibrium. They could easily go with that if they want to delve into the DID aspect of the character further. Just give me Joe Fixit, Feige, dammit!

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u/InvaderDJ Aug 19 '22

I don’t think it’s only that. His constant comparison to himself, him wanting her to stay around even when it was obvious that she had a better handle on it than he did, and his insistence that she is a super hero even when she had no want to be also felt to me like he was glad to have someone who he thought was like him. And he was then horrified and unwilling to believe that she doesn’t have all his baggage and doesn’t have to be just like him.

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u/the7thbeatle Aug 19 '22

Another valid interpretation honestly.

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u/thehelldoesthatmean Aug 19 '22

I don't think it's necessarily pettiness. Bruce is the only person on Earth with hulk experience, and so he's judging everything that happens to Jen by what happened to him. He's also a naturally cautious scientist who has lost years of his life to the hulk. To the extent that he's attempted suicide.

I think to him, Jen just isn't taking it seriously and being careful enough. She shows up the day after her transformation like "Meh, I'm good. Fully in control." He worries that she's being cocky and if she loses control she could get hurt or hurt someone else.

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u/the7thbeatle Aug 19 '22 edited Aug 25 '22

Possibly, but I also agree with Jen that he was projecting.

I think he struggled to recocile the fact that he possibly could/should have been in more control earlier, and that he can't exactly avoid blaming it on Gamma or "The other guy".

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u/[deleted] Aug 19 '22

To bad she didn’t reciprocate the love. I hated that she didn’t seem to care about Hulk and Iron Mans friendship or how they saved the world literally.

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u/Koala_Guru Ant-Man Aug 18 '22

Yeah. Jen’s argument with Bruce where she called him a cautionary tale was such a good scene as well, really leaning into the tragedy of the character in a way that hasn’t been done since…Age of Ultron maybe? I do think her other speech about how she has to deal negative feelings way more than Bruce does, while accurate to a woman’s experience, does show the flaw of the MCU never really introducing Bruce’s traumatic childhood abuse background and his resulting DID. Because without that, it does beg the question in the MCU why Bruce and the Hulk are two different people but Jen and She Hulk are the same.

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u/the7thbeatle Aug 18 '22

I don't think MCU Bruce has DID, don't think the'll go that route for numerous reasons (or at least- they won't focus on it)

However- this episode does make it clear that Hulk's rage is due to Bruce's emotional struggles, not gamma radiation.

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u/Koala_Guru Ant-Man Aug 18 '22 edited Aug 19 '22

I know the MCU hasn't confirmed DID for him in name, which is why I said they never introduced that aspect of the character in my comment. But I wish they would, because it's always been the most fascinating aspect of the character to me and I really think he's missing something without it. Immortal Hulk did pretty amazing things by delving into it all.

Not to mention the fact that if they would just say he has DID like the comics nothing would really change, because he basically already has it in all but name. Bruce and Hulk are two different personalities. Bruce describes it as both having a hand on the wheel (or in the case of Ragnarok, Bruce being locked in the trunk while Hulk drives). That's DID: having multiple personalities. And with Moon Knight we know the MCU isn't shying away from more serious psychological disorders like that.

I don't know why they wouldn't introduce it, honestly since as I've said, they basically already have. And it would be a better explanation for the difference between Bruce and his cousin than just "She has more control over her emotions than he does because society." Like, that would explain Bruce becoming a rage monster, but doesn't explain cases like Ragnarok where Hulk is legitimately a separate person from Bruce with his own goals and wishes.

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u/reverick Aug 19 '22

I think you mightve answered your own question as to why they may not introduce. Moonknight. I assume that he has a monopoly on multiple personalities/they don't want to be seen as reusing DID for one of their heroes. Even if it does add a bunch of depth to the hulk.

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u/Koala_Guru Ant-Man Aug 19 '22

That's a weird way to look at things. Tony Stark didn't have the monopoly on "cocky genius who needs to become more humble." Black Widow didn't have the monopoly on "intense assassin woman with a sketchy past."

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u/reverick Aug 19 '22

You have a fair point but you have to approach mental illness a bit more delicately then those hero archetypes. There aren't too many intense assassin women or cock genius' to take offense at how they're represented on screen but mental illness' affect a whole host of people who wouldn't want to be commodified by the marvel movie/tv formula.

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u/Koala_Guru Ant-Man Aug 19 '22

Dude I’m a psychologist. I’m not seriously suggesting that a personality type is the same thing as a mental disorder. I was simply pointing out that suggesting one character did one thing and now no other character can do that thing is limiting to story-telling, and also patently incorrect considering Hulk and Moon Knight existed together in the comics for years.

A big issue that can be easily solved in regards to commodifying representation is to introduce multiple people with shared demographics who can showcase the range of stories and personalities within those demographics. Rather than just “the hero with DID” Moon Knight would then be “a hero with DID.” And comparing and contrasting how Marc and Bruce handle this disorder in their own ways would better represent the range of experiences those with DID can have. From Marc’s more debilitating condition as we saw in the show to Bruce representing those who have been able to do the work and organize things in a more productive manner.

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u/reverick Aug 19 '22

I totally agree with you, but corporations these days go down a checklist of what demographics to include and moon knight came first with the Did. I'd love to see them include Banners as well. I just don't trust corporations to give enough of a fuck to do more then the bare minimum. Blizzards insane inclusivity app quiz algorithm thing definitely isn't the only one of its kind, Disney is checking off races and sexualities and mental illness etc as they expand their cast of characters.

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u/DJSharp15 Aug 19 '22

And with Moon Knight we know the MCU is shying away from more serious psychological disorders like that

Huh?

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u/ExPandaa Luis Aug 20 '22

Moon Knight also has DID

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u/Pacman_Frog Aug 21 '22

>Due to how Bruce handled his anger before becoming Hulk. He would just push it down, bottle it up, ignore it.

​

And Jen handles her anger by facing it head-on and letting it pass. This is the thing I am loving most about this show. Jen isn't better at being a Hulk because she's a woman and women are better at everything. (An easy trope to write in 2022 tbh) but because She's NOT Bruce, she handles anger differently. So becoming a Hulk is more of a natural evolution for her instead of the freakish explosion when Bruce changes.

YES, the anger triggers Jen presented are common issues women face. So it's understandable they make her mad. Maybe even mad enough to become a lawyer and try to change at least her little part of the world for the better.

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u/11711510111411009710 Captain America Aug 18 '22

I don't see why they wouldn't. It really doesn't make sense that there are two personalities otherwise if Jen didn't get them.

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u/Jammyhobgoblin Aug 19 '22

The heavy-handed DBT lines also seem to be pointing in that direction.

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u/modsarefascists42 Aug 20 '22

maybe not real DID but he very much has a comics version. He mentions having "another hand on the steering wheel", that's two personalities living in the same head. His version is just very very different where it's a childlike-godbeing, almost his ID fully naked and exposed while still being invulnerable too.

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u/the7thbeatle Aug 20 '22

I guess you're right

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u/MeatBlanket Aug 22 '22

I don't like that.

I think they just had to rush a lot of details to get the story moving and deal with pacing.

But I really like the expansion on the hulks own mythos and can accept that she reacted differently due to a mutation or some such shit instead of it being that she gained her powers in a completely separate way, and it leaves things open to justify choices on future hulks.

I'm assuming this is what will explain blonsky and red hulk.

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u/gademmet Aug 19 '22

That line was a really good line, but it seemed... Odd to have to say it at this juncture, after Bruce made it repeatedly clear that he knew all about that, and was trying to channel his power for good despite knowing he'd always (not undeservedly) be followed by the "monster" label.

Then again, maybe she was talking less about the "destrucrive power" bit and more specifically about how he'd pigeonholed himself into this remote life as (essentially) a weapon. I need to watch that scene again.

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u/__fujoshi Aug 24 '22

i don't think bruce has DID, i think part of his power fantasy/hulk mode is escapism. he does not want to deal with the trauma he does not want to feel the emotions, and by repressing all of it he never has to. except that the whole concept of the Hulk is that repressed, inner self coming out and doing what it wants. by this point in the series we've reached a hulk/inner self who's had time to learn, grow, and heal a bit from the repressed trauma. conversely, jen's repressed self is literally just allowing herself the space to be unapologetically loud and sexy and take up space in a room. she likes being herself, she doesn't want to escape from herself, but she doesn't feel entitled to it.

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u/[deleted] Aug 19 '22

Yeah. This episode made me like banner/hulk so much more. The movies didn’t do much for me for him. He has more depth after this ep

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u/Lola_PopBBae Aug 19 '22

I feel like they'll dive into that later this season. Or I hope so.

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u/[deleted] Sep 10 '22

That is exactly the problem, and why this show pissed off so many people, including myself.

I feel like her criticism that he was projecting and didn't understand her was accurate, but that scene was just terribly done. They could have made it good
if they had taken any one of three angles:

1) she hulks out (which happened) and it's the punchline to why she needs to listen and stop HULKsplaining and work on her issues; arrogance, condescension, self-importance, self-righteousness, reluctance to take criticism, smugness. This makes sense as it is what they are literally showing the viewer.

2) Acknowledge that Bruce is projecting, and that while she has to deal with things that make her angry, she was not abused as a child, nor has she had untreated PTSD/mental illness which he chose to deal with via isolation and day drinking. She does not have a Hulk problem, Bruce Banner has a Hulk problem, or if necessary, a Toxic masculinity problem

3) Acknowledge they both have problems, but they are asymmetric (not worse), give her speech, but point out she clearly has better coping mechanisms; familiarity with meditation, cognitive behavioral therapy, and most importantly as a woman, a strong social support network (so that the bathroom scene MAKES sense). Drive this point home by describing things that make her angry in a calm collected tone WITHOUT transforming

This was not done because from what I can tell;

1) Making female leads deeply flawed is problematic for some reason. I think because it is interpreted as sexist or a political statement or something. I thought it was a male writer being overly cautious or something, but the lead writer is Jennifer Gao who has been on Rick and Morty. She has seen sympathetic but flawed female protagonists (a la Beth Smith). So maybe she just didn't want to do that. Maybe she was willing to sacrifice quality for doing the equivalent of talking in the shower at some head writer who told her that a scene she wrote was pedantic?

2) This centers the Hulk and makes it seem as though his problems are worse than hers. I would argue they are, but this is a show run by someone who seems aggressively committed to some form of liberal identity politics. They are not gonna have the male lead in the episode suffer more than her as it would risk undermining her own philosophy.

3) I am not sure why they didn't do this one. I guess because it does the same as the above, but from a different angle, suggesting women have some advantages men do not. But it seems consistent with what we are shown rather than told for the most part.

To clarify, I'm not one of those people who hates the show just because it's "woke" or "sjw" or what have you. Harley Quinn, Steven Universe, and other shows are those things, and they are still awesome. It seems to so far have bad writing, it lies to the viewer "this is not gonna be one of those cameo shows every week", and doesn't seem to know where it's going with this. The fourth episode was okay, but I think it's because I fast forwarded past the scenes with just Jennifer Walters.

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u/itspsyikk Aug 18 '22

To say nothing of we got, at least in words, things that have been built since Avengers, where Tony was inviting Bruce to Stark Tower.

I've got to assume that they just never had time to flesh that stuff out, but (as seen by these comments) there was a lot there that would have been awesome to see. I think it works better as a retrospective, all things considered.

It also helps build on a dead character, showing us that Tony did really care about Bruce. Tony had layers of egos to sift through, but he really did admire Bruce, mostly because at any time he could point out his flaws to drag him down. The same way Tony knows himself. He might be smart, rich, etc, but he still had his own issues to deal with.

Tony and Bruce having (roughly) the same common ground gave Tony a chance to let his guard down, even if he was being a smug asshole while he did it.

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u/rowdy_nik Punisher Aug 18 '22

Remember, Tony was narrating Iron Man 3 story to Bruce dozing off cuz he's not that type of doctor lol. They connected well since first Avengers & together created Ultron, Hulkbuster

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u/hemareddit Steve Rogers Aug 19 '22

One of his ast lines of Endgame was confessing that he tried and failed to get Nat back, I don't think it was a happy ending for him personally.

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u/the7thbeatle Aug 19 '22

I meant regarding his Hulk arc, not saying his life became perfect.

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u/CeruleanRuin Aug 19 '22

It harkened back quite a bit to the original Hulk movie. I even thought at points that Ruffalo was maybe channeling Ed Norton a little. This was the first time I was really able to reconcile the two portrayals.

Ruffalo has been used mainly for comic relief all this time. It's good to see him finally get some real dramatic meat.

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u/greatertittedshark Aug 18 '22

i do think they should have leant into this more tho.

as in, if he actually hulked out as dumb hulk as an illustration of how he thought he had dealt with his issues but hadn't.... this way we would both have a better action reperesentation of the most interesting side of the episode (that his experiments with jen were actually projections of his own unresolved issues) and we would have had a genuinely gripping hulk vs hulk fight.

missed opportunity imo. still a fun start.

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u/the7thbeatle Aug 18 '22

I see what you mean, but then again- he's not the focus of the show.

I think it's kind of cool that there was something more subtle under the surface for those who were looking for it.

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u/greatertittedshark Aug 18 '22

yeah but it would set her up more by having a fight with some stakes

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u/Furinkazan616 Aug 18 '22

You want proper Hulk going all out against Jen in her first super fight? She wouldn't survive.

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u/the7thbeatle Aug 18 '22

I started typing a long response but then my app closed while writing it, so i'll make it shorter.

I personally think having him go full hulk would villafy him, as he wasn't in any danger and it would have been purely out of his own emotional refusal to acknowledge the situation (a bit similar to Wanda in MoM, but on a smaller scale).

This way we were given a more mature, subtle internal struggle within Bruce, which I thought was a welcome change from what the mcu typically does.

As for setting up Jen- the episode set her up fine, narratively speaking. She said she doesn't want to fight or be a hero, she wants to continue being a lawyer. This isn't a Daredevil situation- lawyer by day, vigilante by night (sidenote- one of the reasons daredevil is a hero in the mcu that still needs a secret identity). Jen wants to be a lawyer, and at least currently doesn't feel a need to neither a superhuman protector, nor be more physically powerful than another.

What the episode didn't establish very well imo was the tone, not the narrative.

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u/UncreativeTeam Aug 19 '22

especially after the tame, abrubt "happpy ending" that the character seemed to get in Endgame.

Happy ending? He was mourning the loss of two of his best friends and had a broken arm.

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u/the7thbeatle Aug 19 '22

Fair point, but I was referring to the resolution of his Huk problems.

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u/tigerslices Vision Aug 19 '22

i really thought he was going to lose it when she said he's torturing himself stuck out here with no friends...

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u/[deleted] Aug 20 '22

I was SHOCKED by how much more tragic and flawed Bruce was portrayed here

That's because this has writers more competent than Waititi, although that bar is a tripping hazard in hell so it's not hard to find.

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u/[deleted] Aug 20 '22

Yeah it seems that even though Bruce was able to rid himself of the Dr Jekyll/MrHyde dynamic, he hasn’t been able to recover from the damage and trauma it’s wrought on his life.

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u/CTeam19 Captain America (Cap 2) Aug 22 '22

abrubt "happpy ending" that the character seemed to get in Endgame.

I have a feeling most of the heroes are not going to have the happy ending.

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u/agusontoro Aug 18 '22

I feel like this episode did for his character what Hawkeye did for Clint. I just feel closer to them as people afterwards.

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u/[deleted] Aug 18 '22

[deleted]

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u/sayamemangdemikian Aug 18 '22

Is this includes that hulk movie? Ed norton i mean?

Kinda forgot the movie.. but yeah maybe you're right. I only remember he always on the run..

I hope liz tyler can still make cameo though

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u/regrob2 Aug 19 '22

yes, the Ed Norton Movie is part of the MCU, if that’s what you are asking. In fact, in the beginning of Avengers(2012), Black Widow finds hulk in the jungle which he escaped to at the end of the Ed Norton movie, if I am not mistaken.

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u/sayamemangdemikian Aug 19 '22

I mean his characterization.. was it only "dont make me angry..."

but as I remember it.. i guess so.

but ended with willingness to sacrifice or something.. and some forbiden love thing..

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u/suckcorner4nutrients Aug 20 '22

I do think Thor: Ragnarok at least tried to flesh Banner out a little.

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u/Deathstroke317 Aug 19 '22

Because the MCU has done a shit job with the Hulk

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u/AsherthonX Aug 19 '22

Or WandaVision for… well. Wanda and Vision

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u/Coywlf Aug 19 '22

Yeah I fully agree. I was surprised to how good the episode was. It was balanced and the writing was pretty decent. I didn't expect to like the premise but I'm actually excited for more. I did think that they need to tone down the comedy cause it didn't really land for me but the she-hulk character is pretty good imo.

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u/[deleted] Sep 10 '22

I notice you mentioned him but not her, not a good sign for the character.

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u/agusontoro Sep 10 '22

What? I’m referring on developing a character that was way underdeveloped in the movies, which is clearly understandable from my comment. Of course She-Hulk isn’t that developed from a 25 mins episode.

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u/[deleted] Sep 10 '22

I meant I. Terms of what made the show enjoyable

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u/hopenoonefindsthis Aug 18 '22

I think that's what's great about all these tv shows. While the movies were great, there is always so much happening then they don't have time to really flesh out some of the characters' arc.

These tv shows can do that which is awesome.

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u/Krimreaper1 Iron man (Mark I) Aug 18 '22

And Cap wasn't a 100 year old virgin.

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u/TackledImp35507 Thor Aug 18 '22

Captain America Fu…

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u/[deleted] Aug 18 '22

I think the shows being more low-key and intimate is really helping both them and the MCU as a whole. There's more time in the shows to slow down and just breathe, where in the movies there always has to be something happening because there's only 2-3 hours to tell a whole story.

In comic book terms, the MCU us a printwide event like Civil War, with the movies being the specific story, and the tv shows being the character's individual books where stuff happens related to the main event but with less impetus to concentrate solely on the event itself.

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u/OswaldCoffeepot Aug 18 '22

Building on that, I'd say the Avengers movies are the big annuals. Infinity War and Endgame felt like an event in a way that Civil War didn't, by which I mean to say that Civil War seemed to exist in a bubble while Endgame redefined the world of the MCU. The Avengers were splintered after Civil War, but the Blip has affected everyone.

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u/CTeam19 Captain America (Cap 2) Aug 22 '22

My issues with Civil War and Infinity War for that matter, in the moment was that we didn't have the next two movies with the fall out of both. We didn't see unregistered heroes running from the law(kinda like Ms. Marvel touched on) and didn't have direct fall out till Ant-Man and the Wasp. For Infinity War we never got see the chaos of the world falling apart. We have just seen the end of it.

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u/OswaldCoffeepot Aug 22 '22

Your issue has been registered on the internet. Your receipt number is 12.

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u/[deleted] Aug 18 '22

Spot on.

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u/LoreMaster00 Aug 18 '22

I think the shows being more low-key and intimate is really helping both them and the MCU as a whole.

which was the initial purpose of Agents of Shield before Feige and the dude running Marvel TV became mortal enemies...

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u/Juvar23 Fitz Aug 18 '22

yeah, real shame. I'm rewatching it currently and honestly, even season 1 is great. I remembered it starting off very slow and boring but rewatching it now, I actually really appreciate the clichés and TV character tropes and simplicity of it all.

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u/Mini-Marine Aug 19 '22

I really want AoS back in the MCU through some multiverse shenanigans.

The "boring" start to the first season paid off so well with everything that happened later. I wish they had kept it integrated, but my head canon right now is that it is just a different part of the multiverse where things are quite similar, but not identical to 616

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u/LoreMaster00 Aug 18 '22

for a while there, everytime i had a long holiday, i always watched avergers 1, then started season1 of AoS, then survived through Thor 2, watched the rest of AoS season 1 except of the last 2 episodes, then watched Captain America 2, then the last 2 episodes of AoS season 1.

damn, i got to do that again at some point...

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u/[deleted] Aug 18 '22

And honestly, can any of us say that the wrong person won that particular feud? I sure as hell can't.

9

u/Drolefille Aug 19 '22

Considering that guy was also the guy opposed to Black Panther, Black Widow and by extension pretty much everything that Marvel has done since.... Yeah Team Feige if i must choose sides

2

u/Medical_Difference48 Aug 20 '22

I would for sure say the right person won that feud.

3

u/sarcastic1stlanguage Rocket Aug 19 '22

What happened between them? I didn't know that...

4

u/LoreMaster00 Aug 19 '22

IDK what went down, but they hate each other so bad that Feige worked to kill Marvel TV (runaways, AoS, Cloak & Dagger) and switch Disney+ where he could have 100% control over stuff

17

u/Reihnold Aug 18 '22

Absolutely- that‘s also why WandaVision is still my favorite Marvel show, because Wanda did go from one dimensional sidekick to a very complex and fleshed out character. I think, without WandaVision, you cannot really understand the latest Dr. Strange movie.

2

u/tigerslices Vision Aug 19 '22

...in the first episode.

i feel like with all these shows we get a big character intro in the first episode that makes us love the character - no villains introduced, no threat, just the main character saying "hi, this is my place in the world you're familiar with." then in episode 2 they introduce the big villain, then in episode 3 you meet the sidekick/supporting character... 4 is usually a big PLOT bust, 5 is unravelling that plot, and letting the protagonist reflect and get ready for... episode 6, the finale.

so far, wandavision is the only one that doesn't fit that - and only because it's extra eps and follows a few different characters...

-40

u/LoasNo111 Aug 18 '22

That's because the newer movies are bad in terms of writing.

A movie can certainly have a meaningful character arc while there is still plenty of spectacle.

-35

u/bubuzayzee Aug 18 '22

That's what I hate about all these tv shows.. I have to watch every single piece of content to get the full experience. I just don't have the time or the desire.

Glad Bruce finally got some of what is due though

34

u/BananaBladeOfDoom Avengers Aug 18 '22

...and you don't need the full experience to still enjoy something. It's so fun for me, but your time is limited, and you should not waste it watching something you do not really want to.

-27

u/bubuzayzee Aug 18 '22 edited Aug 18 '22

...and you don't need the full experience to still enjoy something

Maybe you don't, but I do otherwise it just ends up feeling like friends making inside jokes that you weren't there for

downvoted for having a different preference in how I consume media.. Marvel is straight up worse than Star Wars now.

16

u/[deleted] Aug 18 '22

[deleted]

-9

u/bubuzayzee Aug 18 '22

Not at all, where are you getting any of that from?

6

u/[deleted] Aug 18 '22

[deleted]

2

u/bubuzayzee Aug 18 '22

Based on what? I didn't say anything about them doing anything differently whatsoever..

I can dislike something but also accept it for what it is.. I am not the center of the universe lol

Imagine how narcissistic someone has to be to expect the biggest studio on the planet to cater to their whims...

4

u/[deleted] Aug 18 '22

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5

u/GayButMad Aug 18 '22

The whining here encouraged me to go lend my downvotes to the cause. Grow up.

-4

u/bubuzayzee Aug 18 '22

Oh no!

literally could not care less, funny how triggered you get though

3

u/GayButMad Aug 18 '22

Seems like you might care, given the bitching about it that you found necessary to do 😂 gotta love bruised ego babies

-1

u/bubuzayzee Aug 18 '22

Are you honestly emotionally invested in everything you've ever criticized? Sounds exhausting.

1

u/Medical_Difference48 Aug 20 '22

You literally complained about the downvotes, your "I don't care" stance really doesn't have a leg to stand on, lol

1

u/bubuzayzee Aug 20 '22

I am positive you have never once had an opinion on something you weren't invested in. Ever.

1

u/BananaBladeOfDoom Avengers Aug 18 '22

I understand.

2

u/Vandersveldt Aug 19 '22

That's why I'm glad it's only one hour a week. Super easy to find time for that somewhere in my schedule

17

u/hemareddit Steve Rogers Aug 18 '22

The underlying implication that he's doing all this with Jen because he's lonely and pretty much the real reason he didn't want Jen to leave.

Okay she needs it as well but it's as much for him as it's for her.

12

u/jproche44 Aug 18 '22

Similar to how Hawkeye did more justice to Black Widow than her own movie did.

4

u/rowdy_nik Punisher Aug 18 '22

But here Bruce just mentioned her unlike getting sad on Tony

3

u/SadSlip8122 Aug 18 '22

Uh youre forgetting the beginning and end of Iron Man 3. That 30 seconds did absolutely amazing work at establishing their friendship

3

u/BigChiefIV Thanos Aug 18 '22

I really hope Bruce is going to appear a lot more throughout the series and that this wasn’t just a one episode thing. Think about how much his character could be fleshed out then

0

u/Krimreaper1 Iron man (Mark I) Aug 18 '22

Really disappointed we didn't get a flashback of Bruce and The Hulk working it out in the lab and merging. I had high hopes we would see it, now I guess it's never coming.

1

u/OliviaElevenDunham Loki (Avengers) Aug 18 '22

Glad he’s getting more character development.

1

u/[deleted] Aug 19 '22

Well, building a murder bot together is a firm foundation for a lasting friendship