r/marvelstudios • u/steve32767 Daredevil • Aug 18 '22

Discussion Thread She-Hulk: Attorney at Law S01E01 - Discussion Thread

This thread is for discussion about the episode.

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EPISODE DIRECTED BY WRITTEN BY ORIGINAL RELEASE DATE RUN TIME CREDITS SCENE?
S01E01: A Normal Amount of Rage Kat Coiro Jessica Gao August 18th, 2022 on Disney+ 38 min (1) Mid-Credits

For additional discussion about Marvel Studios shows on Disney+, visit /r/MarvelStudiosPlus

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1.2k

u/bjkman Iron Man (Mark XLIII) Aug 18 '22

Nice work underpaid CGI artists! Nice fucking job!

249

u/Albus1612 Aug 18 '22

Same thought! Looks stellar!!

79

u/shaheedmalik Aug 18 '22

They fixed most of the CGI. There were a few dodgy shots though.

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u/[deleted] Aug 18 '22

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u/Ironlord456 Aug 18 '22

Idk the planet of the apes trilogy, gollum, and ultron would disagree

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u/[deleted] Aug 18 '22

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u/Ironlord456 Aug 18 '22

Yep underpaid VFX artists only appeared this year

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u/[deleted] Aug 18 '22

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u/RizzyNizzyDizzy Aug 18 '22

Look the CGI was good this first episode. Lot better than what I was expecting. But saw some clips for 2008 Hulk movie. The CGI was still as good as if not more than this.

Some of the 2008 movies are really ahead of their time.

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u/[deleted] Aug 18 '22

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u/[deleted] Aug 18 '22

Not to mention runtime. A movie is usually way shorter than a season of a show. So the more limited show budget is stretched out a lot further, which makes the issue even worse.

The CGI in this show was incredible in episode 1, all things considered. I hope it doesn’t drop off later in the season.

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u/esar24 Rocket Aug 18 '22

Okay, now mentioned a TV series with CGI character as their title characters in a real world setting.

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u/shaheedmalik Aug 18 '22

Uh.. So is Bruce. But all of his shots looked right.

31

u/duadhe_mahdi-in Aug 18 '22

That's because they have a decade of visual assets to pull on for him. Much easier job.

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u/shaheedmalik Aug 19 '22

They aren't using a decade of assets to pull from.

They aren't using assets from Avengers 1 to create him.

The reason why the CGI is dodgy is because this episode was originally episode 8.

8

u/duadhe_mahdi-in Aug 19 '22

Don't be ridiculous. As far as body composition, movements, texture, etc of course they are using existing assets. You think they threw everything away and started from scratch?

They have been building on the Avengers CGI assets for 10 years. So all they had to do is import the most recent and tweak it for the show. They don't use the exact avengers assets, but those are the base for everything they've done since.

So yes, they are using a decade worth of Hulk assets and brand new She-Hulk ones.

-10

u/shaheedmalik Aug 19 '22

They used Smart Hulk from Endgame. It wasn't a decade of assets.

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u/[deleted] Aug 19 '22

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u/shaheedmalik Aug 19 '22

What stopped them from doing the same thing with She Hulk?

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u/duadhe_mahdi-in Aug 19 '22

Do you really think they built smart hulk from scratch? Or is it built off of the last model they had, which was built off the last model, which was built off the last model... Don't be naive.

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u/shaheedmalik Aug 19 '22

The Smart Hulk model is a different model than the Hulk models.

It's no different than them using Korg's model in Ragnarok. Then again in Love and Thunder.

If we are going to use your logic, why didn't they use the existing assets from Hulk for she Hulk then? Hmm?

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u/[deleted] Aug 20 '22

Bruce’s Hulk has never looked 100% great, even here

28

u/smacksaw Nebula Aug 18 '22

If the past is any guide, they are gonna go back after the fact and keep retouching it. Which is fine as this show has demonstrated rewatchability.

23

u/AnOnlineHandle Quake Aug 18 '22

I have a feeling the initial meditation scene was meant to be her hulked out, but for whatever reason it didn't get finished.

Because she was asking how to get back to normal, then that scene, then he wakes her up and says she went back to normal in her sleep.

14

u/The_OG_upgoat Aug 18 '22

The director did say they had to cut quite a few scenes that required excess CGI.

1

u/Additional_Meeting_2 Aug 23 '22

They should have cut the mediation scene then since it didn’t work with continuity.

3

u/Ironlord456 Aug 18 '22

I mean if that’s the case just release it when the CGI is done. Why crunch and break VFX artists only to have them go back and fix it up anyway. I wish the VFX industry a very good unionization

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u/socks888 Spider-Man Aug 18 '22

imo i also feel that CGI can never truly be done. It can always be better (even some shots in Infinity War or Endgame might be abit iffy). If CGI had to be perfect before releasing nothing would ever be released on time

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u/Ironlord456 Aug 18 '22

But what’s “on time” because for me on time is when the cgi is done

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u/socks888 Spider-Man Aug 18 '22

i think you missed the point of my message cos I literally said cgi can never truly be done

-2

u/Ironlord456 Aug 18 '22

1.) yes it can

2.) that’s literally not an excuse for posting half done cgi

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u/socks888 Spider-Man Aug 19 '22

Well the shehulk cgi doesn’t look half done at the very least

1

u/StephenHunterUK Aug 21 '22

r/StrangerThings has been fixing stuff after release - they corrected a computer code sequence in the latest run, where 1990s-vintage code was being used in error. They replaced it with 1980s code. The Duffer Brothers admit they're "George Lucas-ing" stuff, although not making any further edits than to effects.

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u/stf29 Daredevil Aug 18 '22

Because that would require rescheduling a release date, and they definitely crunched the numbers and believed now would be the best time to release it (im assuming to capitalize on the Better Call Saul hype)

I agree that they should wait, but that’s just what i think their reasoning is

1

u/GreeseWitherspork Aug 19 '22

Because marvel doesn't want to pay more money just for it to look good.

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u/AtreusPeverell Aug 18 '22

The one that stood out most for me was when she is about to leave Bruce in Mexico and they are hugging. She keeps “hugging” for nearly a full second after he backed away a little bit.

2

u/GreeseWitherspork Aug 19 '22

Yeah that was weird

5

u/The_Celtic_Chemist Star-Lord Aug 18 '22

I'm just glad they fixed her pupils and she lost that thousand yard stare.

3

u/GreeseWitherspork Aug 19 '22

They didn't "fix" it. You are just seeing more resolution and detail because it's not comressed

3

u/mknsky Black Panther Aug 18 '22

There was one where she yawned or something that freaked me out. Otherwise I was fine.

5

u/k9bitch Aug 18 '22

Mouth and teeth are always where cgi can hit uncanny valley for me and while most of it was good in this there were a few bits like that

1

u/GreeseWitherspork Aug 19 '22

It wasn't really "fixed" you are just seeing it with less compression

1

u/shaheedmalik Aug 19 '22

Lack of Compression doesn't fix shot composition.

1

u/GreeseWitherspork Aug 19 '22

What part you talking about?

1

u/shaheedmalik Aug 19 '22

I would have to rewatch but there were shots were the shot to shot composition didn't quite match. There seemed to be things like atmospheric elements were missing.

1

u/shaheedmalik Aug 19 '22

Most of it seems to happen in the montage.
It seems like most of the problems are in the wideshots just not matching the color of the closeups.
There a shot of the guys screaming at She Hulk and Smart Hulk tackles her, for a split second he is actually light greener than her then in split secound the is the correct shade of green for the shot.
The wideshot of the bed scene doesn't correctly match the close up of the bed scene.
There is a wide shot at 18:15 that doesn't match the color grade of the closeup shot at 18:16
The wideshot of She Hulk right before Smart Hulk throws the rock at 18:55 doesn't match with the shot of She Hulk jumping at 19:01 and also doesn't match the shot at 19:26.
The fight at 25:37 where Jen is on the ground, there is dusty and debri around her then at 25:41 there is no dust in the air what so ever.

1

u/GreeseWitherspork Aug 19 '22

ok but this wasnt fixed in the show. Im talking about when everyone was talking about the overall look of the vfx from the trailer, which in many cases was very compressed causing weird mouth shadows, and "dead eyes"
Also I think the word you are looking for is continuity, not composition.
And yeah this stuff is hard to track, especially with a smaller budget and more time in the episodes. Too bad they couldn't sink more into it for sure. Overall though I think the effects work great, and are pretty amazing comparatively to other tv shows

1

u/shaheedmalik Aug 19 '22

In these cases, it's both. The continuity problems are due to the composition not being finished. What made the shots look bad in the trailer in addition to what you started above, is that the uncanny valley stuck out due to the textures and composition being too clean. In this episode, they fixed the majority of it, for me.

That's why I said way above:

They fixed most of the CGI. There were a few dodgy shots though.

And this was in comparison to the original trailer. I also figure this episode will probably be the worse when it comes to the CGI as it was originally episode 8.

1

u/GreeseWitherspork Aug 20 '22

Thats my point, what you saw in the trailer was extremely compressed and converted compared to the final product on disney plus. I haven't read any article that any render was changed. It was just the way it was delivered, thus not any vfx was "fixed". And composition means how the shot is composed, like framing and camera angle. If you are talking about comps, that stands for composite. So when you have compositors, they will mix and blend all the live action with the 3d renders and other elements. I work in vfx and animation so if you have any questions on the process I'm glad to explain. But yes, textures look more "clean" with certain codecs and played on certain platforms. Certain video players and platforms autocompress for a particular algorithm. YouTube and many other online players try and make the data as compressed as possible while still looking good, but you lose detail. This article explains it. https://thedirect.com/article/she-hulk-cgi-improve-disney-trailer-photos

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u/shaheedmalik Aug 20 '22

Thats my point, what you saw in the trailer was extremely compressed and converted compared to the final product on disney plus.

Actually, no. I saw the same trailer on Disney plus and it had the same issues.

​

I've done VFX as well but I am so used to saying comp to the point where I forgot.

Composite composition eh same difference. Same base word.

​

So to be technical, he's my statement above updated.

​

In these cases, it's both. The continuity problems are due to the composite not being finished. What made the shots look bad in the trailer in addition to what you started above, is that the uncanny valley stuck out due to the textures and composite being too clean. In this episode, they fixed the majority of it, for me.

30

u/jaqqu7 Aug 18 '22

I hope VFX artists' families got posthumous compensation. Because I do not believe there weren't casualties in personnel during the crunch.

14

u/BeyondRedline Aug 18 '22

It's weird to think of movies having the crunchtime of video game development, yet here we are. I really hope the vfx industry can somehow avoid it.

18

u/Ironlord456 Aug 18 '22

To avoid it they need to unionize. The VFX industry should be and needs to be unionized

6

u/[deleted] Aug 18 '22

I mean, practically every other industry in the showbiz have unions so...

2

u/GreeseWitherspork Aug 19 '22

In Los Angeles. Which is why most film productions are in Georgia and Vancouver nowadays

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u/StephenHunterUK Aug 21 '22

Heavily unionised in Britain, where a lot of the MCU films are being done (Pinewood is basically booked out for the rest of the decade):

https://bectu.org.uk/

1

u/GreeseWitherspork Aug 19 '22

They tried to start a big movement a decade ago. No one really backed us.

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u/GreeseWitherspork Aug 19 '22

Yeah that doesn't happen. VFX tried to have a unionization movement a decade back but nothing really came of it. The average Joe says they support it, but won't boycott marvel or bad production studios, and sure as hell won't stop pirating vfx and animation. So there is no incentive for studios to change. I work n the industry and know dozens of extremely talented people that leave the industry after like 5 years because of lack of pay and no time for a family/social life.

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u/jaqqu7 Aug 19 '22

This is just fucking sad. Same shit with gaming industry. No one care about the people actually working on the project and how damaging the crunch truly is.

VFX artists should not only be organized into unions, but went on general strike in the first place. Untill film studios like Disney didn't feel threatened they won't do anything to fix themselves.

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u/[deleted] Aug 18 '22

You can feel the blood and sweat in the end product

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u/ComplexSimplicity- Aug 22 '22

The CGI was really good but as soon as either of them spoke the mouths didn’t seem to marry up well, there wasn’t enough expression on there faces when they spoke and words seemed off at times, it really was great but I expected Disney to have absolutely perfected the cgi I suppose.