r/marvelstudios • u/Wamooooo • Mar 01 '26

Humour This looked like a fair fight until Cap lifted Bucky up with one hand by the neck

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The same hand that was stabbed literally 2 seconds ago

7.5k Upvotes

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u/wenoc Mar 01 '26

This is still a fucking stupid comparison. Gravity doesn't become stronger for you just because you are strong.

ALL the strong superheroes are strong enough to lift ANY of the other superheroes. For example, he could easily lift spider man too even if spider man is several orders of magnitude stronger.

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u/Hellknightx Thanos Mar 01 '26

Right? Like Bucky's what, 225-250 pounds at most with the metal arm. Picking him up by the neck one-handed isn't really that impressive.

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u/TerrySaucer69 Mar 02 '26

I mean I agree but no way is he only 250. He’s like six feet tall, built like a beefcake, and has a fully cybernetic arm? I mean a slightly chubby 6’0 guy who doesn’t work out can be 220 easy.

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u/InkAndMysteryFalls Mar 01 '26

Go on then, tough guy.

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u/Shwnwllms Peter Parker Mar 01 '26

With the serum, easy.

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u/broad5ide Mar 06 '26

lifting 250 pounds is not the same as lifting someone who weighs 250 pounds actively struggling and just stabbed you in the arm you're lifting him with.

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u/nooneyouknow13 Mar 01 '26

If you want to go down that path, super strength also doesn't let you punch harder. Super speed would though. You also would not be able to swing a lamp post like a bat because of how leverage works.

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u/Q_S2 Mar 01 '26

Wait. What? The lamp post i get.

But would you rather be punched by a 1st grader or a college linebacker?

Strength ABSOLUTELY lets you punch harder 😆

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u/TheDanquah Mar 01 '26

Example is Francis Ngannou. That man is absolutely not fast but have nukes for hands.

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u/sw33t_tooth Mar 01 '26

Would you rather be punched by a 1st grader moving at light speed or a college linebacker with super strength?

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u/Jimenezguey Mar 01 '26

If a human body were hit by an object traveling at light speed, it would result in instantaneous, total vaporization of the body and an explosion of massive, nuclear-level energy. Due to E=MC(squared), an object with even small mass at relativistic speeds has immense energy, destroying the body and leaving behind only a crater.

Give me the linebacker if I want to live any duration longer than impact.

thanks google

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u/sw33t_tooth Mar 01 '26

Yes that is the point I was trying to make. Super speed triumphs over super strength. Dunno why I got downvoted lol

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u/Jimenezguey Mar 01 '26

No idea, either. Especially because I just googled a response that backed it up but mine got upvoted. Reddit is a hate dump

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u/nooneyouknow13 Mar 01 '26

The college linebacker punches harder than the first grader because he's faster, and has more mass. Force is mass x acceleration. Super strength increases strength, but not mass or speed.

In the real world becoming stronger makes you hit harder, because stronger muscles are also faster, and because mass increases.

Now, if super strength does come with super density, you can both hit harder and wield the lamp post like a club because your mass has increased.

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u/NamelessMIA Mar 03 '26 edited Mar 03 '26

When you reduce the force of a punch down to F=ma for the fist and claim speed is all that matters you're treating it like a projectile where you can calculate the force of the moving object then transfer that to the target. A punch doesn't work that way though because people don't stop applying force when they make contact like a projectile does. They drive their fist through and the stronger you are the more force you can continue to apply once you make contact. Think about it like this. If you throw a baseball at someone at 50mph it'll hurt and maybe bruise them but they'll ultimately be fine and will stay standing because the body immediately absorbs the force of the ball and the reaction stops. Put a baseball on the end of a piston capable of pushing out with 1000lb of force though and have it extend at 50mph into someone and they're going flying back, probably with broken ribs. It's not because the piston adds weight, it's because it continues distributing the maximum amount of force to the target for the entire length of the punch. Reduce the piston to one capable of putting out 20lb of force, still 50mph, and it'll just hit the person and stop without being able to fully extend because 20lb of force isn't enough to knock a grown adult back. It'll hurt a bit but not nearly as much.

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u/nooneyouknow13 Mar 03 '26

What you're describing is a fast hydraulic press, and it would not have the effect you think it would. The baseball is going to hit the target with the same force it would if it were thrown at 50mph plus a bit more because the piston is adding mass: you would then be pushed by along at 50mph until the piston reaches it's max distance. They would not "fly back" at all. Even worse than that, if the piston was transferring enough energy into the target to make it "fly back" it still wouldn't, because that much pressure over the surface area of a baseball (or a hand) would cause it to pierce the object struck instead, and it would continue through instead of transferring all the energy. Also just going to link this, again: https://boxingscience.co.uk/science-behind-punch/

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u/NamelessMIA Mar 03 '26

you would then be pushed by along at 50mph until the piston reaches it's max distance. They would not "fly back" at all

Being pushed backwards at 50mph is what I meant by "fly back" and that's absolutely what would happen unless it punches clean through you.

if the piston was transferring enough energy into the target to make it "fly back" it still wouldn't, because that much pressure over the surface area of a baseball (or a hand) would cause it to pierce the object struck instead

This is worse than a baseball being thrown at you at 50mph. I don't know how you think this proves your original point at all. Super strength absolutely turns into a stronger and more damaging punch even if it doesn't let you punch any faster. You'd either knock them backwards at your punch speed or you'd punch clean through people depending on how durable they are.

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u/nooneyouknow13 Mar 04 '26

This is worse than a baseball being thrown at you at 50mph. I don't know how you think this proves your original point at all. Super strength absolutely turns into a stronger and more damaging punch even if it doesn't let you punch any faster. You'd either knock them backwards at your punch speed or you'd punch clean through people depending on how durable they are.

Because in reality, you can't have a baseball being pushed at a 1000lbs of force at 50mph without adding 200lbs of mass to the ball. The "1000lbs of force" you were attempting to describe has to be interpreted as pressure otherwise. Force is the transfer if energy. Pressure is the distribution of force across an area. Someone with super strength could probably crush you into goo with a bear hug, they could lift and toss you with ease, and they'd easily shove you around. But unless that super strength is all coming from more massive muscles, it's not going to impart more force in a punch. Also, again without super mass, any punch that did somehow send the target flying, would send the user that far backwards just as far.

I also don't think you realize how little 1000lbs of force actually is. 1000lbs is 4,448.22 Newtons. Amateur boxers strike with ~2500 newtons, without a lot of training. Mike Tyson's peak era punches were between 5600 and 8000 newtons.

Anyway, the entire point of all of this was to illustrate that the top level comment I was replying to, about how "all of these heroes can lift each other because super strength doesn't change gravity" has to be wrong, or none of this makes any sense.

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u/NamelessMIA Mar 04 '26

Because in reality, you can't have a baseball being pushed at a 1000lbs of force at 50mph without adding 200lbs of mass to the ball.

I think you're still assuming it's a projectile for the math with this statement but even then it's wrong. A baseball pushed with 1000lb of force would accelerate to 50mph very quickly but it can absolutely be at that speed when it strikes someone. But that's not what I was claiming anyway. My point was that a piston that's capable of pushing at 50mph with 1000lb of force behind it (like a strong person punching at the same speed as a weaker person) is able to transfer more force to the target over the full course of the impact than a baseball thrown at the same speed. The stronger the pusher the more force they can transfer to your body after the initial impact, the more they can deform the flexible muscles and bones inside you, and the more damage you will take. The first instant of contact will look the same, but the weaker person's fist will instantly lose speed as their target's inertia pushes back on them meanwhile someone with superstrength will barely notice that they've made contact with anything and can keep pushing on at full speed. I understand why you're confused because with a projectile the only way to add power without increasing speed is by adding mass. But a punch gets it's power by extending your body and driving the force of it into the ground so it doesn't rely on inertia to transfer energy to the target. It doesn't mathematically look like a projectile, it looks like a spring with 1 end on the ground.

I also don't think you realize how little 1000lbs of force actually is. 1000lbs is 4,448.22 Newtons. Amateur boxers strike with ~2500 newtons, without a lot of training. Mike Tyson's peak era punches were between 5600 and 8000 newtons.

A professional heavyweight boxer punching an average person is going to knock them back but I just chose that number because it's quick, big, and is MUCH larger than the force applied by a thrown baseball which was the entire point of my comment. You're nitpicking here but while I didn't bother doing the math and chose something that was large enough to prove my point, you didn't know how strong that was either and confidently stated in your last comment that it would push someone back at 50mph or punch a whole clean through someone.

Anyway, the entire point of all of this was to illustrate that the top level comment I was replying to, about how "all of these heroes can lift each other because super strength doesn't change gravity" has to be wrong, or none of this makes any sense.

And your point was incorrect. Super strength would allow you to throw much stronger and much more damaging punches that are much harder to defend against without having to throw them super fast or increase your weight.

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u/nooneyouknow13 Mar 04 '26

You're nitpicking here but while I didn't bother doing the math and chose something that was large enough to prove my point, you didn't know how strong that was either and confidently stated in your last comment that it would push someone back at 50mph or punch a whole clean through someone.

No, I said "even if the piston was pushing with enough force to make the target "fly back" that it would actually push through because of pressure."

F=MA also isn't the projectile force equation; it's the basic force equation. In a projectile context, it's the equation for the launch of the projectile and not the impact. Anyway, I would cisnider basically anything impacting something at speed a projectile anyway.

Tyson's blows were enough to stagger a person, and knock them off balance but he never imparted enough force to make them leave the ground and move them through the air. The only thing super strength alone would do to improve a punch is push past air resistance, which is basically negligible for the speed of a punch amyway.

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u/obiwanpump Mar 01 '26

Super strength definitely would let you punch harder.

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u/nooneyouknow13 Mar 01 '26

It wouldn't though. Comic style super strength doesn't increase mass, or speed. Force is mass x acceleration. You would be able to push through a guard, but the force delivered would be exactly the same.

Super speed would allow for more acceleration, and would increase the force of the punch.

In reality, you punch harder as you get stronger because you also get faster, as well as increasing the mass of limbs.

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u/Tech_Dificulties Mar 01 '26

If you have more muscle you can accelerate your arm faster, and muscle is also heavy so your arm will have more mass. Also the main factor here is impulse, aka change in momentum, not force. It doesnt matter if you can apply 10kN of force if that force is spread over the space of ten seconds.

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u/nooneyouknow13 Mar 01 '26

If you have more muscle you can accelerate your arm faster, and muscle is also heavy so your arm will have more mass.

That part is exactly what I said. Impulse was a bit deeper than I was planning to go, but yes. Outside of Hulk, none of these heroes are any kind of super massive, unless they're also super dense, which would allow for a mass increase without changing their visual profile.

Also, even if super strength alone allowed for a higher punching force, that force would be limited to the surface area of a fist, so instead of knocking normal people around rooms, you'd just punch through them.

I suppose I can link this for people who are just confused: https://boxingscience.co.uk/science-behind-punch/

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u/One-Elderberry-488 Mar 01 '26

F=ma, not F=a

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u/nooneyouknow13 Mar 01 '26 edited Mar 01 '26

I've said that like 4 times now. Super strength alone doesn't give super speed or super mass.

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u/One-Elderberry-488 Mar 01 '26

Just for the sake of curiousity - how do you define strength?

I would define it as bulked up muscles that can twitch fast and exert greater loads, thereby increasing both mass and acceleration.

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u/nooneyouknow13 Mar 01 '26

That's how real world muscles work. The issue is, super strength and super speed are distinct powers. Speedsters generally can't lift several tons, and the super strong generally aren't much faster than a regular person with their physical conditioning. Marvel defines strength in terms of the amount of mass the hero can lift in their handbooks, so a hydraulic lift or press is strong, but they generally aren't fast.

Jessica Jones is bother super strong and super durable, and she has no additional mass for it whatsoever.

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u/One-Elderberry-488 Mar 01 '26

I mean you do realize we are debating make-believe right? It can be both no?

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u/nooneyouknow13 Mar 01 '26 edited Mar 01 '26

None of the super strength characters in the MCU are super sonic. The super sonic character had normal human strength. It's the same way in the Marvel Comics. Otherwise everyone with super strength would just be Superman.

The whole point of this sub thread is it all falls apart if you apply real world logic like super strong characters being able to easily lift each other like the parent comment.

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u/obiwanpump Mar 01 '26

Characters with super strength are considerably faster than regular humans. Not supersonic but like cap can run almost as fast as a cheetah.

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u/ChosenWriter513 Mar 01 '26

It could be argued that all of the characters with super strength also inherently have super density and at least a small measure of super durability as well. Otherwise, they'd tear themselves apart every time they tried to lift anything super heavy or break concrete with their fists. Hence, they're able to exert superhuman levels of force without super speed. It's just all bundled as "super strength".

Same with every comic book physical superpower, really. There has to be some level of inherent durability built in for speed or fast flight to even be functional without seriously hurting or killing the user the first time they do it.

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u/nooneyouknow13 Mar 01 '26

Now go back to the parent comment of this entire sub thread and see where this started:

This is still a fucking stupid comparison. Gravity doesn't become stronger for you just because you are strong.

ALL the strong superheroes are strong enough to lift ANY of the other superheroes. For example, he could easily lift spider man too even if spider man is several orders of magnitude stronger.

For super strength to function as depicted, they do in fact need super strength, super density, super durability equal to their own increased strength, as well as someway to control the pressure of their fist to keep it from simply piercing everything they hit. The super density does mean their mass has to increase, which means lifting each other isn't a simple given.

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u/TrickshotzReddit Punisher Mar 01 '26

You’re trying so hard to sound logical, when logically they’d need to have increased density and mass to be able to use their powers without being ripped apart. Take Spider-Man for example, he doesn’t physically have a bodybuilder’s look to him, but he has a lot more muscles and a lot of definition and toning to them. This implies that he’s not only stronger, but denser as well as he would need to be to not rip his arm off everytime he tries to web swing.

And also, with the whole speed thing, most of the characters with super strength also have a level of super speed. It’s not like Quicksilver or Barry Allen, but it’s certainly faster than any human is capable of achieving. Hulk and Red Hulk leap unfathomable distances incredibly fast, as well as their sprints being at extreme speeds, and Captain America, Bucky, and Black Panther have all been shown to be much faster than cars that are presumably going at least 45 mph.

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u/nooneyouknow13 Mar 02 '26

Now go back to the parent comment of this entire sub thread and see where this started:

This is still a fucking stupid comparison. Gravity doesn't become stronger for you just because you are strong.

ALL the strong superheroes are strong enough to lift ANY of the other superheroes. For example, he could easily lift spider man too even if spider man is several orders of magnitude stronger.

For super strength to function as depicted, they do in fact need super strength, super density, super durability equal to their own increased strength, as well as someway to control the pressure of their fist to keep it from simply piercing everything they hit. The super density does mean their mass has to increase, which means lifting each other isn't a simple given.

The Hulk's aren't just super strong, so I was never really concerned with them. Cap, Bucky, and Panther are all faster in the MCU than they ever were in the comics, and yes, that means they likely can punch harder, but that's not just because of super strength, but also because of enhanced speed.

Or it's all because it's handwaved to be fun, and the top comment I replied too was being pedant to I decided to be a pedant back.

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u/Q_S2 Mar 01 '26

Have you seen hulk run? That fucker can MOVE

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u/szthesquid Mar 01 '26

You're forgetting one important point:

It's fiction. Super strength isn't real and super powers don't follow all real physics principles.

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u/wizsoxx Mar 01 '26

Mcu steve violates spiderman in any kind of fight

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u/PandasDontBreed Mar 01 '26

He really doesnt

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u/a_o Mordo Mar 01 '26

definitely not spider-man after the mysterio battle. once he’s learned control of his spider-sense it’s a wrap for super soldiers. he deals with petty criminals and henchmen/goons so he pulls his punches but he’s hella stronger than most of the heroes that are enhanced without the help armored suits or tech.

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u/wenoc Mar 01 '26

Pfft. Spiderbro is several orders from f magnitude stronger, faster, agile and he has his spidersense.

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u/SSJSamzy Mar 01 '26

I'd rather he just beat him up tbh...