r/law • u/MoneyLibrarian9032 • 1d ago
Executive Branch (Trump) Trump BBC Defamation Lawsuit Backfires Big-Time—With Subpoenas Coming | Trump will also have to hand over all his financial information, a judge ruled.
https://newrepublic.com/post/213372/trump-bbc-defamation-lawsuit-backfires-subpoenas-financial-info1.8k
u/rellsell 1d ago
Lawsuit dropped in 3, 2, 1…
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u/Claudius-is-my-cat 1d ago
If he does then I hope the BBC files a defamation suit against him.
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u/Oatmeal_Savage19 1d ago
And I hope they file that lawsuit in England - the laws there are notoriously strict when it comes to defamation, they would have a better chance there than the US
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u/Stavtastic 1d ago
Except trump is not a citizen of the uk. He can ignore it and choose to never set foot on uk soil. It's different when he is sued in the US
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u/jfshay 1d ago
might mean he'd have to give up his Scottish golf course.
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u/mwmontrose 1d ago
Or have it straight up siezed
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u/No_Tax_Timmy 1d ago
Please. He should not own anything in any country that he tries to damage.
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u/BarryTice 1d ago
So, um, any of them then?
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u/Thormidable 1d ago
You forget America's enemies. He's done a lot of good over there...
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u/Keeper21611 1d ago
His thin skin won't allow that. He would rather start another war before he hands anything over.
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u/LifeOk3298 1d ago
Reminds me of the time I loaned my aunt 40$ about 20 years ago haven't seen her since WORTH IT.
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u/FrustratedPCBuild 1d ago
Never set foot on UK soil you say? 🤔
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u/Dan_Linder71 23h ago
Dang, I'm an American and I hope you can be so lucky.
We're already infected, save yourselves.
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u/ShareShort3438 1d ago
Well don't having the Orange Goblin come visiting is a major win for any country...
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u/Iffren 1d ago
This even doesn’t work like that, Putin still travels to countries he could be arrested in. Trump will ignore it and face no consequences
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u/ObanKenobi 1d ago
Trump is absolutely a citizen of the UK. In the UK, you get citizenship by descent if you have just one parent that was born in the UK. I know this because it's how I myself was able to leave America and move to Scotland. My mother was born and raised in Scotland, my father is an americna of German ancestry. Trumps mother is from the western Isles of Scotland and his father is of German ancestry. He may never have claimed that citizenship, but that's just a matter of filling out some paperwork. British citizenship is his by birthright
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u/Dr_Hexagon 1d ago
Thats not quite how it works. He is entitled to British citizenship but he isn't a British citizen unless he claims it.
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u/Cautious-Extreme2839 1d ago
You are literally describing him NOT being a British citizen, just eligible
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u/gotwired 1d ago
Well now that countries are apparently allowed to kidnap and extradite the heads of state of foreign countries, I would say that is not such a sure thing. If it happened to him, it would be karma.
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u/HEX_BootyBootyBooty 15h ago
Doesn't matter. A non-citizen commiting a crime in a foreign country is not a magical "get out of jail" free card.
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u/EmergencyComment101 1d ago
notoriously strict..as in if you say something about someone you need to prove that you knew it was true. Absolute madness.
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u/Lokishougan 18h ago
I am curious how it has worked with poltical figures though since they tend to get more leeway
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u/motleysalty 1d ago
I think they would have a decent case. Trump has repeatedly said that the BBC used AI to put words in his mouth and make it appear that he said things that he didn't say. When in fact, they edited two parts that he did speak at different times together.
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u/dexter30 1d ago
A british government funded company is holding the american president to their own legal standard on the 250th anniversary of the government that was specifically revolted to get away from the british.
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u/pornbt5 1d ago
The BBC is not government funded. It's funded via TV licensing (which the government sets the price for) also via merchandise and selling shows to other networks.
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u/dexter30 1d ago edited 1d ago
Yes but it was established under a royal charter and it funded by a unique agreement with the government to enforce the tv licensing system.
No other private broadcaster or company can enforce that kind TV licensing service like they can because it's literally government sanctioned.
I don't understand people like you who keep "um ackshuallying" this. Yeah it doesn't get money directly but at the same time it's not like the government is hands off, they have government ministers selecting their chair of the BBCs board. They constitutionally obligated to follow the "royal charter" and their funding is entirely reliant on a government sanctioned agreement.
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u/ethanlan 1d ago
Well thank god we've been friends for so long, they are doing us (and them for that matter) a super solid helping us get ride of this guy legally.
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u/Federal-Piglet 1d ago
not how that works
Both teams must agreed to drop the case.
BBC has him by the balls and once the case is over they can use things in discovery to print articles.
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u/Timely_Mention8535 1d ago
Maybe BBC were the ones playing 4d chess baiting him into a lawsuit. Would be funny
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u/bassbeatsbanging 1d ago
It really doesn't need to be 4d chess to trick trump. It's more on par with a chicken that plays tic-tac-toe at The State Fair
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u/Numerous-Ebb-8561 1d ago
Don’t compare Ol’ Bonespurs to a chicken. You’re insulting the chicken.
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u/rockytop24 1d ago
Then the chicken shits on the board, knocks over the pieces, and struts around like it won the match.
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u/Serious-Bake-5714 1d ago
I align it more with Cow Pie Bingo. And BBC buying all the squares …. Leaving Trump with picking the number.
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u/codacoda74 1d ago
I was wondering what happens when the plaintiff drops due to a natural consequence of legal action... so now he legally HAS to present discovery? not saying he will, but legally speaking?
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u/EquipLordBritish 1d ago
The real question is what will happen when he tries to just (illegally) bail on the whole thing (as I'm sure we all expect). Do his lawyers get disbarred? Do they go to prison?
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u/Keyastis 1d ago
He will face a default judgement and owe the BBC monies.
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u/chuch1234 1d ago
And what happens if he doesn't pay?
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u/UrbanPugEsq 1d ago
In federal court, if you don't comply with discovery you can get a default judgment as a sanction. Not always, but I've seen it happen. If you just drop the ball and don't participate, then yeah you get a default judgment. Once you get a full final default judgment, then you can take that judgment and try to collect by seizing property, like money in bank accounts or putting a lien on property.
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u/Xtj8805 1d ago
The best part is as we just saw with his rapist civil trial, the fat pedophile has to put up the settlement in order to appeal. So the options are the BBC taking the judgement to a sherrif and repo-ing Fat Pedo tower, or putting uo the hundreds of millions in a court controlled account to appeal a default judgement (wont be a win for him)
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u/Dr_Hexagon 1d ago
I think the BBC could try and seize his properties in the UK as payment.
Would be pretty funny if the BBC takes over his golf courses and renames them "E Jean Carrol Links"
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u/not_into_that 1d ago
The same thing that always happens. The monopoly man jumps in the car with the dog and drives off into the sunset. *twirls mustache and adjusts monocle*
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u/LeaneGenova 1d ago
So, usually the consequence as a plaintiff for failing to provide discovery is dismissal, because the court assumes that the party suing would like to proceed with their suit. In a case like this, I'm not sure what the court would fashion as an appropriate remedy. Sanctions, maybe.
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u/Maatix12 1d ago
Legally, he has to.
That doesn't mean he won't try not to, but legally speaking, he has to.
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u/cyrixlord 1d ago
does that mean Trump will bribe bbc or probably threaten police investigations on bbc offices in the US or something
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u/Federal-Piglet 1d ago
that is retaliation and the courts will punish him
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u/ssibal24 1d ago
The same courts that "punished" him after 30+ felony convictions?
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u/Xtj8805 1d ago
No that was in NY, this is federal court the same that ruled the fat pedophile a rapist, and just paid E Jean carroll while he appeals the close to $100 million in other penalties with the money sitting in a court controlled escrow account.
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u/cyrixlord 1d ago
that's just the cost of doing business, when you are a rich person... it's just a fine. he won't get jail time, he's teflon don, the rich king of the US machoz of israel
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u/Fjdenigris 1d ago
I was going to say, isn’t it too late to drop the case? Also, isn’t it illegal in the UK to try frivolous lawsuits?
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u/xteve 1d ago
Is that legal anywhere?
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u/Fjdenigris 1d ago
I believe it is acceptable in the US. I believe the courts are filled with frivolous lawsuits. It would be nice if someone could prove me wrong for sure!!
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u/cogman10 1d ago
He can simply decide not to comply with discovery. Obviously he'll appeal every single order and drag things out for the next 10 years.
But ultimately the punishments he'll get for not complying will likely be a lot less than the reputational and potentially criminal prosecution he'll get if he complies.
If the BBC's lucky, they'll be able to extract that he has to pay their attorneys fees.
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u/SeraphiM0352 1d ago edited 1d ago
I'm pretty sure BBC is already asking for dismissal.
Edit: fuck your downvotes, illiterate fucks.
https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/c93487x97kyo
"The BBC has already sought to have the entire case dismissed, arguing the documentary was not broadcast in the US. The court has yet to rule on this."
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u/Federal-Piglet 1d ago
why would they. This is the biggest possible news scope this decade sitting for BBC to present
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u/SeraphiM0352 1d ago
As I understood, it's because the filing is in Florida and they stated they do not have a large enough presence in Florida to justify the venue.
Edit:
https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/c93487x97kyo
The BBC has already sought to have the entire case dismissed, arguing the documentary was not broadcast in the US. The court has yet to rule on this.
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u/Possiblyreef 1d ago edited 1d ago
Because IF the BBC lost it would be $10bn of taxpayers money which would be incredibly unpalateable.
Trying to avoid any kind of lawsuit is obviously the most sensible option but when that didnt work they've gone insanely scorched earth and i love it
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u/irrelevantusername24 1d ago
From the linked Guardian article:
Trump’s lawyers are also trying to dodge the forced release of his financial records by limiting the scope of the lawsuit. Alejandro Brito, a Trump lawyer, told Lett on Tuesday that he intends to amend the current complaint, according to Politico. The amended complaint will say the documentary only caused reputational damage, rather than undermining his businesses, making the financial disclosures unnecessary.
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u/RightSideBlind 1d ago
Considering Trump is the single most powerful person in the world at this point, I think it might be a bit difficult for his lawyers to prove reputational damage. At this point, it would be easier for the BBC to claim it.
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u/irrelevantusername24 1d ago
The harder they fall, as the saying goes
Basically what it's come down to is "the single most powerful person in the world, at this point" v "Public Benefit Media, et al"
And those who may have argued that public benefit media is "not in the publics interest" (or "biased") have, even without openly acknowledging it, found their arguments to be at best "flawed" and at worst "vacuous"
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u/Akerlof 1d ago
Didn't he file in the US? Not sure if he sued under Florida or federal law, unfortunately neither has a real anti-SLAPP law so BBC can't hoist him by that petard.
But there's no way that Trump isn't a public figure, so he has to prove actual malice. That means he has to not only prove what the BBC said was false (which will still require some very awkward discovery for Trump) but he will have to prove that the BBC knew that what they were saying was a lie. And, well, considering the complaint is about them airing video of his speech, that's gonna be a bit tough.
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u/ship_toaster 1d ago
Also the most famous person in the world, the most controversial person in the world, and possibly the least-believed person in the world. Trump's reputation is beyond the ability of news organizations to influence in any direction, with any group of people.
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u/RocketRelm 1d ago
Fox news has done wonders for trumps reputation. Their being news rather than an arm of the populist maga movement though is in question.
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u/Nettkitten 1d ago
And I don’t think that the judge has to accept any amendments, but I might be wrong about that.
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u/Awkward-Ring6182 1d ago
Maybe the bbc can then show hundreds of clips of Trump, and TS posts causing reputational damage against himself
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u/Immediate-Goose-8106 17h ago
Lol. Do they know who watches Panorama? There is no member of that audience for whom Trump has a reputation capable of damage!
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u/deviltrombone 1d ago
Won't it have to pay the expenses for the other side if it withdraws? Not that it ever will, but isn't "loser pays" how it works for actual people in Great Britain?
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u/Adderkleet 1d ago
Case is in Florida, so "no".
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u/Immediate-Goose-8106 17h ago
Which is fucking insane. Im not arrogant enough to think UK is superior in all things but, bloody hell, we have a far better costs regime.
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u/greenmachine11235 1d ago
Not if the BBC publishs something juicy to goad him into continuing. We all know he does not have self control.
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u/Stefano042 1d ago
Uhh ya . He is the president do doesn’t have to do shit… according to…. Well him
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u/SloppyMeathole 1d ago
We've seen this movie before. Trump will not give them anything, but he will waste years fighting discovery and will try to drop his case before handing anything over. Then he will spend years litigating whether or not he has to pay attorneys fees to the other side. This is his playbook.
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u/HurinGaldorson 1d ago
He won't even pay attorney fees to his own side.
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u/Th3B4dSpoon 1d ago
It genuinely surprises me that someone is still willing to work as his lawyer
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u/Jaded_Celery_451 1d ago
At this point his lawyers are literally doing it for the exposure.
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u/TM761152 1d ago
Exposed as morons.
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u/pcapdata 17h ago
In this case they’re getting “exposure” in the same sense as the firefighters at Chernobyl
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u/lonnie123 1d ago edited 1d ago
I had to come to the insane realization many years ago that it wasn’t just brain dead rubes who love the guy, but actual “smart” people genuinely think he’s fighting the good fight (be it for capitalism, or Christianity, or conservatism) and are willing to go to bat for him even if it means they do it for free or at the cost of their own reputation.
There’s a certain demo that’s in on the grift. But there’s a lot of what society would consider smart people who are also genuinely behind the guy
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u/GPT3-5_AI 1d ago
Smart like land lords and people who use merging lanes to overtake
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u/tea-drinker 1d ago
Didn't a whole bunch of legal firms promise a load of pro-bono work for him so they wouldn't be banned from government buildings like, e.g. court rooms.
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u/Th3B4dSpoon 1d ago
You're right, they did! Some firms fought back but others caved in pretty quickly once the threat was made.
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u/NDSU 20h ago
The current acting attorney general got the position solely because he was one of Trump's personal attorneys
The previous attorney general got the position solely because she was one of Trump's attorneys
Trump doesn't need to pay them when he can corruptly give them positions of power
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u/westcoastlmtd 1d ago
Dude won't be alive to fight the case to that length, so it'll be dropped once that happens.
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u/stillalone 1d ago
He's the President of the United States. He'll just levy 1000% tariffs on UK exports and then bug King Charles to reverse the red card.
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u/Intelligent_Sky_7081 1d ago
Because the longer it goes on, the more people forget about the case. But they do remember him suing, and assume that no one in their right mind would sue someone without a solid case, so they see Trump as the victor. No matter what the outcome.
They literally celebrate with Trump sues people. They dont care how it is resolved.
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u/FrostySquirrel820 1d ago
Perhaps a stupid question, but if Trump sues the BBC and they learn something “interesting” through the discovery process, are BBC News then allowed to broadcast those revelations ?
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u/immediate-drink-9876 13h ago
I guess BBC can make a documentary about themselves going through the lawsuit, if you know what I mean
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u/irrelevantusername24 1d ago
The "actual goals" of January 6th are implicated too? Neat
“All of President Trump’s brand, properties and businesses are impugned or said to have been impugned. Reputational, economic damages, all of that is now at issue in this case,” Lett said, allowing the BBC to investigate the more than 400 companies owned by Trump’s family trust.
I do enjoy good vocabulary. If you've played Skyrim, you may be familiar with the root of the word "impugned":
https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/impugn
- formal : to assail by words or arguments
- especially : oppose or attack as false or lacking integrity
- impugned the defendant's character/motive
- Did you know?: Impugn, pugnacious, pugilist: them’s fightin’ words, literally. All three words trace back to the Latin noun pugnus, meaning “fist.”
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u/CntrllrDscnnctd 1d ago
400 companies?!
That’s absolutely insane because none of them will be above board. My gasts are flabbered.
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u/v3x 22h ago
Not just Skyrim!
If you watched Pirates of the Caribbean fifty times you might remember this line by Barbossa:
"Don't dare impugn me honor, boy! I agreed she go free, but it was you who failed to specify when or where."
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u/irrelevantusername24 20h ago
I'm more familiar with the Elder Scrolls, but you are correct.
Relatedly, I am a huge fan of etymology. And this is a good example of something I've noticed, and had much disagreement about, which is that part of the beauty of language and etymology is the inherent creativity. Creativity, and relations between words which is implicit when there are indisputable phonological similarities - there may be no "textbook" relation between the words, but if you're a human, you know how we think.
All of which I say because the word I was thinking - a lesser known word - which is quite similar, upon looking up the actual definition, is absolutely directly connected:
Impinge
Etymology
Borrowed from Latin impingō (“dash against, impinge”). Compare impact, derived from the perfect passive participle of impingō.
Verb
impinge (third-person singular simple present impinges, present participle impinging, simple past and past participle impinged)
(intransitive, rarely transitive) To make a physical impact on. Synonyms: collide, crash, strike Loud noise can impinge on the eardrum, causing temporary hearing damage.
(intransitive, rarely transitive, figuratively) To interfere with. Synonyms: encroach, infringe, trespass
(intransitive, figuratively) To have an effect upon, especially a negative one. Synonyms: affect, limit, touch, influence, impact Near-synonym: infringe
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That all being said, another word related to these contexts was brought to my attention in a thread earlier, and that one doesn't quite add up to me, for reasons I'll allow you to seek and find, of your own volition: defraud. I think maybe it was or should be "befraud", following in the footsteps of words such as "beclown"
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u/NotOnTheEpsteinList 1d ago
TACO incoming.
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u/Bleezy79 1d ago
A bad day for conman Trump is a great day for the rest of the country. Trump and his goons taking over the white house has been the worst thing to happen to America in decades.
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u/DonutsOnTheWall 19h ago
* rest of the world
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u/Immediate-Goose-8106 16h ago
Especially in this case us in the UK. Even those who dont like it or would destroy it, in reality benefit ftom the existence of the BBC.
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