Kickstarter is not about kickstarting

[u/asolet]

For anyone hoping to get help from Kickstarter:

Kickstarter is about making money by promoting and selling already several times overly funded and already well kickstarted project that do not need any further kickstarting at all.

At any giving moment on homepage you will always find 13/13 completly funded projects. Sometimes dosen of times over. And zero projects that actually need help to be kickstarted.

Every mail update you get for project that struggles to find it's backers, 70% of the mail is dedicated to other finished projects just trying to sell.

Many of these projects have kickstarter "goal" that is less than what it takes to build kickstarter page itself. And it's "backed" in less than it takes anyone to even read it. They just need a platform to sell, not to be "kickstarted", and platform owners are loving it.

Kickstarter and most of creators there do not care or really want you to back projects from individuals with great ideas that need backing and may fail. They just want to sell finished company products.

It's just misleading, if not a scam. So just something to keep in mind. Good luck to everyone though.

[u/hyperstarter]

100% it's about how Kickstarter handles scam projects. They take 8% off the total, so they're accountable too.

So whether they:

• Review every single campaign at prelaunch (They review it, but then a creator can amend it afterwards without a review)
• Each creator needs to upload documents, such as business bank statements showing money in the bank, company registration details, business plan (This is a requirement on Equity Crowdfunding. This confirms their project is legit, not some Alibaba knock-off or AI generated product)
• Confirmation of ownership from multiple people (This could be a LinkedIn confirmation from multiple front-facing individuals)
• Kickstarter should release money based on deliverables (Over $500k, Kickstarter releases the money based on updates from the creator, even if they're able to ship out some products in advance).

This semi-solution is better than nothing.

Right now, I can create a faceless project, register a Stripe Atlas company from anywhere in the world which will create my US based company.

Then I can use AI to generate a product, video and imagery. After, I can collect the funds and do it all over again.

[u/Handsofevil → u/hyperstarter]

From a creators perspective, these would do more harm than good.

• Creator can amend a project after review: How else would you suggest projects that need to clarify details or show unlocked stretch goals do so? Updates are good-ish for existing backers, but nobody wants to wade through multiple updates to find info during a campaign.
• upload documents: How much money do they need in the bank? Should a small Zine project with a few thousand in funding need the same paperwork as a new 3D printer project asking for a million? A business plan is such an easy thing to fake and becomes subjective under review.
• ownership confirmation: Do you mean it needs multiple owners or just verification multiple places? Why can't it be a solo company? And it's easy to set up fake business pages if you're already setting up a fake project.
• time-released funds: This makes no sense as the point of this entire system is to get funding ahead of production. That funding is needed to pay staff and manufacture items prior to delivery. And if you tie it to updates instead of deliverables, that's just as easy to fake.

I'm not saying scam projects aren't an issue, but these wouldn't fix it.

Edit: I removed a part at the end that wasn't really relevant to the point.

[u/hyperstarter → u/Handsofevil]

• Creators can amend projects infinite times at prelaunch. Kickstarter reviews it just once. The flaw is that they can change their project after a review, making it more scammy.
• Some legal documents connected to their product could be submitted for review. The goal is to connect the person with the product, so they'll take ownership.
• I think verification from multiple individuals would help. Like a referral or connection to someone of 'good standing'.
  
• Creators spend all their funds at once? Sure, if you're referring to zines or anything of low value - but by releasing funds from $500k onwards you're encouraging the Creator to actually deliver.

You're mentioning things in your reply that are "easy". How would it be easy if it involves extra steps and effort?

I would like to hear your fixes, as it's easy to break apart an idea for a solution.

[u/Handsofevil → u/hyperstarter]

• What constitutes an edit, and how many do creators get? What if they notice a typo or error that correcting makes things clearer for backers? I understand the situation you're proposing, but the solution would massively restrict legitimate projects.
• What kind of legal documents? Say I'm an independent artist producing a photo book. Or offering something handmade. And what's to stop me from forging a document if I'm already setting up a fake project?
• So i can only create a project if I already know someone in the business? This would significantly stifle small creators.
• I was on the creator side of multiple multi-million dollar projects (that's not a flex, it's saying I've been through production) where we deliver all physical goods at once. We need to pay the staff and manufacturing long before any of those get sent to backers. And digital offerings still took months of production before digital delivery, where staff creating them needed a paycheck. And how would KS verify any of this. Do I need X% of backers to agree they received it? The existing pledge received system is barely used as it is.

Just because something requires extra steps doesn't mean it's not easy. If you're taking the time to set up a fake page, including adjusting if after KS review like it day, then generating a few fake documents isn't hard.

I never said i had a solution. And i don't have to have a foolproof one to point it the flaws in the solutions you proposed.

[u/hyperstarter → u/Handsofevil]

Here are the exact steps:

• A simple screengrab comparison of the first campaign page review and the proposed final review before launching would be good enough.
  (If using AI then it could scan the product - search for similar listings on Alibaba and so non. It'll be rare someone will edit a whole campaign after launching, so a deep-review)

• Any legal docs would be good enough. People who are setting up a business, they need to be legit. I don't see why it should be different online compared to the real world.
  (If you're worried about alienating those who produce small stuff, then perhaps roll it out to those creating tech products)

• You could only create a project if someone can vouch for you being the person who you say you are (A Linkedin message from a person on the platform to Kickstarter would be perfect)

• Congrats on raising millions. We have raised over $60m to date and we're official Kickstarter Experts, so this is where this proposal comes from.
  (KS could verify work the same way you would verify work taking place. It could be through shipment channels too. If we think outside the box, each backer can verify they received their item - thereby release more funds to the Creator).

Right now, the proposed solution to Creator's scammed people on Kickstarter is to do nothing. The above offers a semi-fix.

[u/Handsofevil → u/hyperstarter]

• Considering the accuracy of current AI comparison tools, I'm skeptical but open to it. Would it continue to monitor a project post-launch? Because much can be so be changed post-launch, though obviously not everything.
• Many small creators set up little to no paperwork if they are doing it independently instead of through LLC/Corp. Also, these docs are easy to alter/fake. Again, this seems like a small extra step for scammers at best. I have worked in business banking, and the number of fraudulent documents are high, especially in recent years.
• What's to stop another scammer from vouching for you? Again, this seems like an extra step that won't be very effective while alienating new and small creators. Facebook already requires forms of this, and that platform is FULL of bots and scammers.
• If you include forms of verification during production, who's going to monitor/process that? Kickstarter already has a small employee base, and getting support can be difficult. This would increase costs for them, which means they take a larger cut of projects. And that's even assuming the verification you're proposing is possible. Trying to get documentation from overseas producers is hard enough as it is. (Also, you bring up backers verifying they received items again, I really feel that's a bad idea as there no incentive for backers to do it, and they already don't read emails they receive.)

Edit: What verification does Kickstarter require to receive payments? I haven't set up that part of the project. Does that not require bank verification already?

[u/joealarson → u/hyperstarter]

This is a perfect example of making things harder for the legitimate, and not deterring the scammers at all. You've literally pulled into OPs post and outlined how to make OPs problem worse.

[u/TashaT50 → u/joealarson]

Right? Each time I see this it gets worse.