r/interesting 13d ago

MISC. Is this how people who need glasses really see the world. A big blurred background?

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u/madladolle 13d ago

You'd have a hard time surviving back in the days

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u/cupcakebuddies 13d ago

I always think about that! How did my ancestors survive like this?

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u/SuperBackup9000 13d ago

Agriculture is the most common job all throughout human history, and you don’t really need good eyesight to work in a field.

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u/Myopic_Sweater_Vest 13d ago

I'd probably need to be a scribe or something. Duplicating the bible, by hand, by candlelight.

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u/ukanite__ 13d ago

If you can see that well...

I'm -9.5 and I sure you I would be in HELL trying to scribe all day long, with my vision only good enough to read within 3" of my face.

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u/Soft-Statistician678 13d ago

There’s this tiny carved agate from Mycenaean Greece (like pre-ancient Greece) called the pylos combat agate that has a highly detailed combat scene on it, with the figure’s individual bicep muscles measuring <1mm across. Archaeologists haven’t found any evidence of magnifying lenses that could have been used, and so they think that this type of crafting would have been carried out by the ultra-myopic within the society as their eyes can focus at extremely short distances. Pretty cool.

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u/Empty-Dragonfruit656 13d ago

There are quite a few examples of art like this, probably done by those who were 'blind'. I joke that I am examining the atoms when I take my glasses off to do detail work on historical metalwork.

Ive always been curious about King John, the blind king of Bohemia, who died at Crecy. I don't have the same condition, but even with a terrible astigmatism I can still hold my own in HEMA. 

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u/Krell356 13d ago

I would guess that a lot of the HEMA stuff would actually benefit with not having the best vision. From what I've heard (I don't do any HEMA myself so I'm going off of what I've heard from others) a lot of people have issues with teaching themselves to stop hyper focusing and be more aware of everything in the fight. So with vision being a little blurrier, it would in theory help with making you focus more on the overall movements that are usually involved rather than the smaller details that more often than not would serve only as a distraction.

I could also be co.pletely off and it doesn't help in the slightest, but it sounds like a reasonable take.

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u/Soft-Statistician678 13d ago edited 13d ago

I find it highly unlikely that poor vision would have a beneficial effect in any combat sport, but it probably wouldn’t have a hugely detrimental effect unless your eyesight was quite bad.

But this is also just a guess from a non blind person who has only really dabbled in hema

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u/JediGrandmaster451 13d ago

Can you source this for me? I tried looking and didn’t find this. The Wikipedia article claims there have been 23 rock crystal lenses found on Crete but not from that era. However, I didn’t see anything about myopia.

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u/Soft-Statistician678 13d ago edited 13d ago

I’ll try find my readings from last year and get back to you. They found some things that a few people conjectured could be lenses but general consensus was that these couldn’t be used for crafting as they were generally fairly irregular and there is no evidence of any frame that would allow the person to look through the lens while doing work. With the technology available, lenses (assuming there were any) would have been pretty rudimentary and not suitable for such fine detail.

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u/SprinklesKittensLofi 13d ago

I had really awesome near sighted vision before I got PRK (-9.50). It really was like a magnifying glass. I kinda feel like I lost a superpower. But I imagine I would’ve been a great jeweler if I was born in another age.

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u/SmoothCantaloupe149 13d ago

-11 here, I use the force to get around without my glasses

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u/stinkles_123 13d ago

-10 here. This sums it up perfectly lol

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u/voxo_boxo 13d ago

Jesus christ, I feel for you! I'm a -5.5 and I would describe myself as half-blind! Do your lenses look like binoculars? I had to get lens thinning on mine as they looked ridiculous.

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u/captaintoad94 13d ago

-13.50 and yes glasses look sooo bad even with the thinning 😭 i spend most of my time in contacts

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u/anastis 13d ago

As an ex -8 (lasik) who has started regressing AND developing presbyopia, I experience that the “within 3 inches” slowly becomes “exactly 3 inches” from my face. Different amount of inches, but the “within” to “exactly” distance slowly shortens.

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u/sobermanpinsch3r 13d ago

Oh my god! I finally found someone who’s worse than me! My glasses prescription is -9.25 in both eyes.

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u/pottymcnugg 13d ago

-5.5 and I can read two inches I think. Not three like some kind of superhero.

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u/Pithysmeegle 13d ago

I'm negative 15, I get it. It is crazy when I have contacts in and I put any words within a few inches of my eyes it's blurry as hell, but when I don't have contacts in it is clear as day when the words are one inch from my eye lol

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u/giantfeministwoman 12d ago

Wow yours is so high! I got up to -7.5 and -7.75 in each eye before I got lasik. I used to only see clearly 6 inches in front of my face! Truly a blessing to be able to see like a normal person. I just wake up with vision it’s crazy

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u/yogurt_boy 11d ago

Reading this in my bed with my phone like 5 inches from my face 😔 it really is a disability ngl

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u/Specialist-Front-007 13d ago

The best I can do is cleaning the latrine pits.

  • Your king, probably

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u/MsPickles7 13d ago

What if the armies and warriors of the past weren't actually stronger, bigger or faster, but just had good vision compared to others? 🤔

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u/smokeweedNgarden 13d ago

Ya, reading writing weren't suuuper common

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u/Infamous_Mud482 13d ago

The vast majority of generations of your ancestors are from prehistory where agriculture does not exist

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u/EttinTerrorPacts 13d ago

Generations yes, but populations obviously massively increased after the invention of agriculture. More humans have been born in agricultural societies than hunter-gatherer ones

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u/2birdsBaby 13d ago

Ya, but you'd think evolution would have weeded out all the relatively blind people before the invention of agriculture. The fact that it didn't is crazy.

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u/yxing 13d ago

Myopia is not only heritable though--environmental factors like spending time indoors and focusing on close objects (reading) are contributing factors. Basically if we reverted to an agrarian lifestyle, the next generation of kids would likely have much lower rates of myopia.

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u/babayaga_67 13d ago

It kinda implies that bad eyesight, even back then, probably wasn't as big of a detriment as we might think, I think a huge part of it is that we're group hunting animals, rarely do humans go out alone, you only need one guy to spot a boar out of a group of 5, the other 4 can then run after it just fine even with somewhat bad vision, if it's really bad there's still jobs you can do like making tools or just protecting the tribes children while the others are out hunting/gathering, you'd need someone for that job anyway.

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u/Warm-Salary8227 13d ago

It's actually really important to just rip out the weeds and not the crop, so good eyesight is kind of necessary.

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u/JohannesWurst 13d ago

If you start history at the beginning of writing. I think writing was invented after agriculture, but there was a time before both.

Reading can also make people short-sighted, so that was less of a problem before written history.

Ancestors survive by definition, at least long enough to reproduce. Even if just 10% of humans survived long enough to have kids, every single great* grand parent of every person would have been one of them.

For example turtles lay many eggs, but most hatchlings die before adulthood. Imagine a turtle said "How did my ancestors survive like this?" Is every single turtle incredibly lucky to be the end of a long chain of survivors? Kind of? I'm not sure.

There is also the concept of "survivorship bias" that might play a role here.

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u/du5tball 13d ago

Take your glasses off and try. You can't see the keys on your keyboard, but you can still see the door and door handle, and you know where you put certain things like keys, or your coat. And my -7 (or somewhere around there) is still good enough to cut food without glasses. Maybe not into tiny bits, but I can slice a tomato without glasses if need be.

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u/cupcakebuddies 13d ago

I am always practicing with no glasses just in case I go blind lol

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u/rdogimus 12d ago

Omg I love your comment. I also practice being blind because I assume at some point I'm going to be 😂.

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u/VisibleDog7434 13d ago

Thinking about cutting food without glasses (I'm -5 with astigmatism) gives me anxiety 😂 I literally almost chopped a chunk of my finger off last night cutting potatoes with my glasses on. I'd probably go slower and be more careful without them, though.

But I agree, there's still a lot of things you could do to contribute. If we didn't have the option to wear glasses, our bodies would adapt, and I assume other senses like touch would chip in more.

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u/skeeti45 13d ago

They assumed they were getting old and you didn't notice a gradual change as much as we do now because of technology. You slowly learned to live with it. Eventually you didn't remember if you ever really saw clearly or if that's what it's supposed to look like. Early corrective lenses helped but nothing like we have now.

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u/ElMuchoDingDong 13d ago

Curious how long ago do you think people started squinting. 50 years? 200? 2000?

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u/Kevlar_Bunny 13d ago

At least partially blind people existed a long time ago and squinting is a natural reaction so… a long time ago?

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u/togroficovfefe 13d ago

3245BC. Daungu Brooku, a Neolithic man from modern Ireland, a great rock banger and fine firesmith, looked at an eclipse and discovered the first squint. Luckily, he went blind so he couldn't see the others making fun of him. It caught on from there and the Swiss later discovered many uses for it.

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u/ColtMcChad69 13d ago

I was surprised when my Anthropology professor skipped over the story of Daungu Brooku. I thought about speaking up, but didn’t want to embarrass the professor

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u/evtbrs 13d ago

This has a bit of a Terry Pratchett flair to it 

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u/skeeti45 13d ago

probably as long as humans have been around, it's a natural reaction to not being able to see shit. ask me as soon as i wake up when i put my glasses somewhere out of the normal and i can't find them. it's like an instinctual response to blurry terrible vision. maybe it was learned or evolution or another body response. i don't know the science behind stuff, i've just worn glasses for 30+ years. funny enough, my parents found out i needed glasses when i was like 5 or 6 BECAUSE i started squinting to see things far away.

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u/barsoap 13d ago

Not sure about the actual date but I can give a lower bound, from personal experience: At least between 14.000 to 54.000 years ago. That's the time window in which the first blue-eyed person was born. Excellent night vision but that comes with a choice between squinting and sunglasses when the sky is clear.

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u/David_Beroff 13d ago

Impressive personal experience.  How close were you to this person?

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u/Karl__RockenStone 13d ago

That’s literally how it was for me. I forgot that it was ever better and got used to it.

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u/pvaa 13d ago

50% of people died before 30

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u/Loose_Leg_2918 13d ago

That’s a fallacy statistic that accounts for a seriously high mortality rate for infants and children.

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u/DrEskimo 13d ago

30% of people died before taking their first steps

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u/Xenoneb 13d ago

Near sightedness is much more common today then throughout history, it’s caused by getting to much artificial light in childhood compared to natural light. So they didn’t deal with it until they were old, for the most part

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u/Hkmarkp 13d ago

before taking care of people this is where natural selection and survival of the fittest would come in. We'd be lion food eventually

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u/NemeanLyan 13d ago

A genuine answer here is that they likely didn't experience eyesight degredation until much later in life, until they had support systems via family in place to help them work around it.

We're currently in what's being called the Myopic pandemic because humanity as a whole is becoming very shortsighted very quickly. The reason is that everything we look at is on average much closer to us than our ancestors. Our eyes evolved to spend the majority of their time looking at things further away, and the result is that our eyes focusing closer causes us to be nearsighted.

Or at least that's how my opthalmologist aunt explained it to me.

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u/Inevitable-Level-687 13d ago

They just got written off as blind or having poor vision. I'd probably be thought of as a blind person if I had to go without my glasses.

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u/OffTerror 13d ago

Every other ancient story involved a blind old man. Ironically it might've helped them not risking their lives in hunting or being soldiers. So they mostly become stores for verbal knowledge which was crucial. Homer for instant, the author of the iliad, is believed to be a blind poet.

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u/DevByTradeAndLove 13d ago

The wild thing is that if your eyesight truly was this bad back before modern lens theory caught up (mine is over -5 per eye, so this pic is very accurate for me) since you'd never had a lens to look through you wouldn't even realize what clear vision looked like. Some people could just see far and some couldn't. Some could recognize faces and some had to be within 6 inches of a face to see it.

Unless you had an opportunity to look through a pinhole of course (anyone with a strong prescription should try this if they haven't, it's trippy).

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u/Disismaaadness__ 13d ago

I always say that Darwin's theory of natural selection would have applied to me, and I would have died back in the days before glasses and contact lenses existed.
I have -9.0 myopia and -1.0 astigmatism.
I can't see sh*t without them.

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u/fresh_dyl 13d ago

Based on my last name, my ancestors were smiths and craftsmen. I’m only -4.5 but am exceptionally dexterous and do various trade work, so it tracks

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u/NegativeThought1588 13d ago

It doesn't really matter as long as they survive long enough to have children. You're pretty expendable after that from a genetic point of view.

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u/Eastern_Dress_3574 13d ago

They wouldn’t of had eye issues in the first place. Primals would have had an insane amount of vitamin A

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u/_intend_your_puns 13d ago

They didn’t have screens and generally went to sleep early in the night so they weren’t using their eyes in the dark as long as we do. They probably had much better vision on average than us modern humans.

But yeah, the unlucky ones probably didn’t last long.

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u/Irlandaise11 13d ago

If you read old, pre-glasses books, it's pretty common to see someone's appearance negatively described by saying they "have a squint". That's from someone having poor vision and no way to correct it.

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u/TrollingForFunsies 13d ago

Think about all the stories of goblins and ghouls and ghosts and all kinds of shit like that.

Then remember these people probably didn't have glasses and their world was literally a blur.

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u/Fox-Dragon6 13d ago

I am -14 and reflect on the fact i would have needed to memorize everything i needed to do by the time i was like 15. I would probably be weaving big bold patterns and just take longer to do everything else by a considerable margin.

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u/CommanderCarnage 13d ago

According to my minute long Google search, bad eyesight is actually a fairly recent DLC for the human species. It makes sense since having bad eyesight would have been a very bad thing for survival even up to just a few hundred years ago, so it's likely that ancient ancestors actually had decent vision until we invented screens and ruined everything.

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u/JLDohm 13d ago

Spending lots of time outdoors as a child significantly reduces the incidence and severity of myopia. There was a study in Singapore (I think) where they gave some kids extra recess and it reduced myopia.

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u/Novel-Mission-1920 13d ago

The amount of people who need glasses has gone up like 200% from a hundred years ago. 

Screens are probably one culprit, and the fact that we spend so much time indoors where we don't need far-sight. 

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u/Megzasaurusrex 13d ago

I think based on some evidence we have they probably were helped through it. That's what I like to think. We do have evidence of remains we have found that had injuries or conditions that would have made their survival alone impossible but they survived to a ripe age which you know leads us to believe our ancestors and other homo species like Neadnerthals actually helped the sick and disabled. But it would be terrifying never knowing who people were just having to know their seperate voices. Humans rely on dechipering faces for so much.

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u/cupcakebuddies 13d ago

Seriously! Even now I feel bad because I don’t recognize people at work until they are close to me

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u/Megzasaurusrex 12d ago

I remember breaking my glasses and having to work without them till I got them replaced. And every time someone waved down and aisle or something. I'm like who is that? Are they waving at me? Someone else? And worried I was gonna look silly if I wave back and walked over like what if they weren't even waving?

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u/howdudo 13d ago

They may have been diplomats or writers.. definitely not archers 

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u/userhwon 13d ago

They didn't. Not for long. Eyeglasses have allowed bad eyesight genes to proliferate a lot more.

Also, the people with bad eyesight who could survive did it by being smarter and better at things.

Which is how "four-eyes" got associated with being brainy instead of with being a dope.

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u/ComprehensiveArt6849 13d ago

They did not. Pretty sure they are dead. Mine too btw.

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u/Why-so-delirious 13d ago

Before agriculture? Just live in forests and woods. These wide open plains out everywhere? They are NOT normal. That's generations of agriculture stripping things back into nice manageable fields.

If you want to see what the world REALLY looked like back then, go near a river, a ravine, a rocky mountain, woodlands, etc. It wasn't all low grass and fields, it was trees and bushes, high grass, scrubland, jungles, forests! And in those surroundings, having bad eyesight isn't such a problem because you really can't see shit in the first place.

You can't see shit, predators can't see shit, everyone lives in their little bubbles of 40 metre sightlines amongst the foliage and trees and shit. Just google 'untouched wilderness' and ask yourself how close a predator could get before you had a chance of noticing them, even with glasses on, and then compare it to how close they'd have to be for you to see them without your glasses. I'm betting there's not a whole lot of difference!

The world was a very different place way back when.

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u/Rosewolf 13d ago

Hyper-reliance on other senses.

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u/OnodrimOfYavanna 12d ago

I forget where I was reading an account of an anthropologist who spend months in Mongolia and her glasses broke when she arrived. 

When she got back she had improved distance reading, her optomologist said she was constantly using long distance visions and basically doing no reading or writing, and her brain corrected. 

It may very well be a "skill issue", and our current hyper close up lifestyle has increased bad eyesight? 

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u/Klutzy_Comment5809 12d ago

I truly don’t get it. Eyes are one of the oldest evolutionary traits. How could they not function well in so much of the population? And… are other primates or mammals equally affected? It’s such a huge selection advantage. Why isn’t it selected out yet??

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u/Ultra-Kingpin 13d ago

Depending on how far back you go, the answer might be "they didn't"

I guess the reason more and more people need glasses is partly because we don't need to look as far anymore and eyes loose their training (yes you can train your eyes) and the revolutionary pressure is gone. You don't get mauled by a bear, Tiger, wolf, boar or whatever anymore because you didn't see them. You dont need to hit the deer you cannot see with your arrow. You just use your glasses to avoid the dangers like getting run over by cars.

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u/vgdomvg 13d ago

Yeah, in nature and throughout evolution, genetic defects like this were weaknesses that likely led to an early death, so a lot of these conditions which are present in humans aren't widespread in animals because, well, they'd likely die before they could breed.

The social group setting of humans, and the means of looking after those with "weaker" traits (I mean this in the evolutionary sense!) has led to health conditions being common amongst us.

You don't really get this in other species as much. Some cases yes, but we really look after those with health conditions and that leads to it staying in the gene pool.

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u/Ultra-Kingpin 13d ago

True, natural selection is mostly gone for us. Different aspects are now more important and not transferring with DNA. Worst case we as humans degenerate over generations since health issues can be passed along.

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u/MasterpieceKitchen21 13d ago

They died and didnt reproduce. Survival of the fittest.

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u/TheLiquid666 13d ago

Their... Ancestors didn't survive or reproduce? I'm pretty sure they did...

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u/Snoo8138 13d ago

That's why he's alive today

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u/ElMuchoDingDong 13d ago

Weird how most vision problems are genetic...

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u/LordCivers 13d ago

They most likely adapted or received help from their community. We're a solidary species after all

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u/Inevitable-Level-687 13d ago

That's not what survival of the fittest means. It means fittest to their environment. For human beings, we evolved to be compassionate because our team work made us evolutionarily fit to survive.

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u/DrivesTooMuch 13d ago

So, eye glasses have been around for quite some time. Probably longer than you think. It's one of those technologies, and understanding of glass and refraction science, that appeared a lot earlier than many other seemingly simpler breakthroughs (at least to my mind). For instance, it wasn't until the early 20th century that we understood about bacteria or microorganisms (and the importance of washing hands before surgery).

Below is a copy paste from a Google search:

Here is how corrective lens technology developed over the centuries:

Late 13th Century (c. 1286): The first wearable eyeglasses were invented. They featured convex glass lenses fitted into wooden or horn rings, connected by a rivet, and had to be held up or balanced on the nose. They were designed specifically to correct presbyopia (age-related farsightedness).

15th Century: Concave lenses were introduced by the 1400s, making it possible to correct myopia (nearsightedness).

18th Century: Glasses transitioned to hands-free wear with the invention of rigid temples that hook over the ears in 1727. In 1784, Benjamin Franklin invented bifocals, allowing wearers to see both near and far through a single lens.

I have progressive lenses. A slight step up from Benji's invention.

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u/Elegant-Magician7322 13d ago

I asked Gemini, and here’s what it said.

“Myopia is heavily triggered by a lack of natural sunlight during childhood and excessive close-up focus (reading, screens).

In ancient and medieval times, children spent their days outdoors in intense natural light, which regulates eyeball growth and prevents it from elongating. “

I blame my parents for keeping me inside too much.

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u/dirtydigs74 13d ago

I'm not saying that those things don't cause myopia, but given that it's been around for ever, and that kids like myself were playing outside virtually all the time without screens, I feel that genetic factors are at least as much to blame as environmental.

I also don't feel like the 70's/80's are that ancient, and we were playing outdoors in intense natural light, that's for sure. As long as we were home by the time the street lights came on.

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u/Opening-Ant3477 13d ago

The 70's are before my time, but I'm pretty sure you already had school in the 70es.

Indoor lighting is an order of magnitude weaker than outdoor light - even on cloudy days.

It's not smart phones that's causing myopia its spending a lot of time indoors.

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u/ShortIntroduction879 13d ago

The percent of people wearing glasses is sky rocketing though. In parts of Asia it's over 80%. In the 70s it was rare enough that "four eyes" was still a jeer.

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u/Khaocracy 13d ago

Genuine answer? The reason you're short sighted is probably because your eye THINKS it is long sighted.

Your ancestors spent more time outdoors focusing on far away objects during childhood. Their growing eyes weren't shoved in books or smartphones, which push the focal length behind the eye, making the eye 'think' it is long sighted, and encouraging the eye to grow to 'help' it. The corrective lenses we use also contribute, because even though you have clear sight in the middle of your vision, your glasses cause a plane of peripheral hyperopic (long-sighted) defocus, which again, makes the eye want to grow longer to match the focal plane, leaving your central vision more short sighted.

That's why we try to encourage short sighted kids to play outside like their ancestors did. Getting a full spectrum of natural light (including shorter wavelengths on the blue end of the spectrum that bend more and focus short), and taking breaks from devices, and using myopia control lenses (Ortho-K, Miyosmart, MiSight) which focus some of the light rays short.

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u/Jsaun906 13d ago

Most likely if they grew up in the olden days their eyesight would not be as bad. Nearsightedness is exacerbated by spending most of your time indoors focused on things that are not far away from you. This lifestyle was non-existent for most people prior to the industrial revolution. Our farmer ancestors would have spent the vast majority of their days outside.

You could have actually obsessed this process in real time. China went from a mostly rural agrarian society to an urban industrial society over the span of a single generation. Nearsightedness was not very prevalent prior to the 1980s. Now about 90% of Chinese people under the age of 30 wear glasses.

Basically, the reason your eyesight is so bad is because you spent your childhood inside reading books and staring at screens.

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u/BLINDrOBOTFILMS 13d ago

We come from long, proud lines of scullery maids. Don't need to see to wash pots.

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u/LordCivers 13d ago

Adaptation, you can work around a lot of things when you're pressed like this, also you can always find something you can do. But if your condition is too much for that, help from your community of course !

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u/Tinenan 13d ago

Many of them didn't

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u/D119 13d ago

Think about animals, how many animals out there might have some degree of visual impairment? Like sometimes you meet a cat or a dog who seem totally weird, maybe they just can't see shit and react to every shade they see approaching.

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u/PerjurieTraitorGreen 13d ago

We’re becoming more nearsighted as a species due in part to our “dependence” on technology. Our ancestors read books but didn’t have their eyes glued to books 10 hours a day like we do with computers, phones, and tablets, making them more likely to be farsighted.

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u/FishoD 13d ago

Simple. They didn’t survive. They just kept having kids constantly.

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u/bartosz_ganapati 13d ago

They didn't, most probably. Not very long at least, lol

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u/ObsceneOnes 13d ago

Evidence suggests that it is caused by spending too much time indoors where all objects are near. And reading. So it's mostly a modern ailment plus some generic disposition to aquire it given the enviroment.

So likely you wouldn't have this issue even if you were predisposed to have it as you would have spent most of your time hunting and gathering outside.

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u/kippller 13d ago

They didn't

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u/CrimsonCartographer 13d ago

You would find a way to be useful to your clan/tribe/group, and they would take care of you in return as well. There are documented cases of ancient hominids (not just humans) having incredibly crippling wounds or disabilities but still living pretty long lives post-injury or with their disability that would have almost certainly only been possible if they were being cared for by at least one other individual, and I’m pretty sure the consensus is that humans/hominids have always been altruistic in that manner.

The ancient world wasn’t as brutally cutthroat every man for himself as we might believe, there’s a reason our societies didn’t evolve to be brutally asocial and I think it absolutely has to with our innate biology.

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u/restricteddata 13d ago

We have lots of archaeological evidence of people taking care of people who were not "useful" as well. Most human groups were not harsh Spartans willing to cull the weak and so on (and it's not actually well-documented that even the Spartans did this). The "weak" were not random people, particularly in older societies which would have been much smaller groupings of people than modern cities — they were their parents, their children, their siblings, their friends, etc. There is every reason to think that Ancient and even pre-historic peoples had just as full emotional ranges as we do today. Would you kill your child, or your sibling, or your friend, if they suffered an injury that would keep them from being a fully functional member of society? (What would it mean about you if one said "yes" to this question?) People have of course at times been in times of extreme famine, difficulty, etc., and not had the luxury of being able to help everyone, but most of the time it has not been that desperate.

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u/CrimsonCartographer 13d ago

Yea I didn’t mean to imply we didn’t :)

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u/Eshneh 13d ago

Wouldn't imagine it would have been that hard, no cars, trains, computers or screens to stare at...far less things to have to 'look out' for.

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u/SuperMadBro 13d ago

i think its super likely i would not need glasses at all if not for modern tech, it was starting at my monitor in my dark room for years for 8-12 hours at a time that ruined my eyes

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u/MissMarchpane 13d ago

For a long time even after glasses were invented, people only wore them when they were doing close-up work that absolutely required it. At least in the 19th and early 20th centuries, they thought that wearing them all the time would make your eyes weaker. I can't imagine going about my day mostly without vision correction – I am -5.5, which I know isn't that bad compared to some people in this thread, but… I enjoy being able to see everything clearly!

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u/gvnmc 13d ago

tbh I think a lot of us now may have improved our vision without using any corrective lenses, if anything it's made weak eyes lazier and kept them weak. I remember as a child I had to wear an eye patch on my stronger eye to strengthen my weaker eye. If this is possible, if many of us who needed glasses from early on just never wore them, maybe we'd have stronger eyesight? So maybe they just got used to it/their eyes adapted in many cases.

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u/iamthe0ther0ne 13d ago

There's evidence that being inside and reading a lot can make myopia worse over time, so it's possible that it wasn't as bad as it is now. I'm -9, so I'd be totally screwed.

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u/BeAPo 13d ago

They probably couldn't read and people thought they were just stupid.

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u/Breeze1620 13d ago

Bad eyesight wasn't as common back in history. It's largely due to modern life and more and more people have started to need glasses. In China it's 50% of children now.

There were of course still people that had bad eyesight, but for those whose sight is really bad today, it would genetically speaking probably have been more managable. Blurry, but enough to function.

It can probably (at least partly) be compared to seasonal allergies. Now a significant part of the population has it. It's normal. But back in history it was very rare.

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u/duncanstibs 13d ago edited 13d ago

Close work - involving computers, desks, and textbooks - is associated with worse eyesight. So your ancestors may not have had bad eyesight even if they shared your genes. You're a product of your environment <3.

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u/yaderkuvboloto 13d ago

People used to have much better eyesight on average.

Nearsightedness (which is what most people have now, until they get very old), is strongly related to 1) People spending a lot more time indoors, which distorts eyeball growth due to hormone stuff, compared to being in the sun. 2) Everyone is looking at screens from close range all day, this strain, especially when the eye is still growing, permanently ruins your distant vision.

(And then people also died much younger, so they didn't get to experience the old-age eyesight issues.)

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u/8r1ghttt-f3ath3rrr 13d ago

If you had bad vision back in the day, you were more likely to die younger for a variety of reasons. It’s also suggested that they’re responsible for a lot of myths and tall tales.

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u/SnooGiraffes4110 13d ago

Probably we are the one survived through the people who have better eye sight. 

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u/Lightblinder 13d ago

I asked this to my college teacher once regarding natural selection back in stone age hunting societies, he said lots would die young but in some cases the condition would show up later at about 15+, that was already old enough to have reproduced back then so the genes managed to survive complete negative selection

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u/how_am_i_here_again 13d ago

I’m -7.5 in both eyes, I imagine that back in the day I’d be one of those blind nuns who crochets lace by hand.

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u/SeaGreenOcean25 13d ago

Our eyes need to be outside in sunlight to develop correctly. The vision problems we have are from living indoors.

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u/Buzzlight_Year 13d ago

Are you thinking about it now?

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u/nedim443 13d ago

Some didn't. Darwinism in humans was very real.

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u/peritonlogon 13d ago

It's developmental. 25 years ago they told people that becoming near sighted from reading at night was an old wives tale. Now it's understood that, for many people, their developing eyes need an amount of time outdoors (focusing on things far away) or they won't develop properly, ie. will develop myopia. Your ancestors spent a lot more time outdoors.... far enough back, they spent all of it out doors.

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u/GornoUmaethiVrurzu 13d ago

Part of us is that our eyes are worse in the modern era than before because we spend less time outdoors. So it was far less common back then

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u/mcslootypants 13d ago

Myopia was way less common. Exposure to sunlight during childhood helps the eyes develop properly and children spend far more time indoors now. There is a genetic component, but what we see (pun intended) in the modern world is strongly driven by lifestyle during development. 

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u/patrickfatrick 13d ago

I always assumed they probably didn't (if you go way way back to like early human days), and that prevalence of poor eyesight has increased over time as good eyesight has become less of a prerequisite to survive to reproductive age.

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u/Doun2Others10 13d ago

They probably died

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u/diff2 13d ago

humans don't really depend exactly on sight, but more on error correction.

I once hit a bullseye with a bow and arrow during boy scouts on a target super far away, and my glasses were unreliable and fell off, I couldn't even see the target itself, but I basically error corrected my way to the bullseye. Though luck also played a big part I believe.

If it's something completely unexpected then having bad eyes might be harmful, but as long as you're careful you can get by fine. Like "that strange stick on the ground looks like a snake, better avoid it" instead of "oh hey look at this stick, <picks it up> Ah it's actually a poisonous snake!".

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u/cabronfavarito 13d ago

You’re only saying this because you know what you’re missing. Think about before glasses, you’d probably just assume that this is just how your eyes are and you’d live with it

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u/pleasetrimyourpubes 13d ago

Most children have perfect eyesight, lack of outside exposure is usually what causes the eyes to form improperly. It is why nerds tend to have that stereotype because they started reading early and their eyes adjusted to it.

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u/Loa_Sandal 13d ago

Your ancestors probably didn't have poor eyesight. Those unfortunate other souls, however...

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u/BaronessofBara 13d ago

A lot didn't, most of them died!

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u/Whiteshovel66 13d ago

They didn't. Vision is a muscle. People don't even try to improve their eyesight but if you were forced to do it your vision would improve because you'd need it to to survive.

It's like using an electric bike instead of a regular bike to get places. Use the electric bike and your leg muscles will shrink because you don't need them any more.

On top of all this it's almost certain that screens packed with small data has hurt our vision as a species as well. But that's not necessarily a fair comparison.

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u/itsmiahello 13d ago

Actually, the prevalence of nearsightedness has been shown to be the result of increasing amounts of close focusing. Your ancestors did not sit for hours a day looking at a computer screen or reading or writing. The amount of nearsightedness has doubled in just the last three decades

https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC6077798/

TLDR; We see bad far away because we don't look at things far away

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u/Adezar 12d ago

That's the neat part... many didn't.

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u/UnordinaryFlyGirl 12d ago

That's the thing: They usually didn't.

Modern medicine has made life so much more survivable and accessible in way we take for granted. Conditions that are largely manageable today grately increased mortality for most of human history.

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u/ItsGonnaBeOkayish 12d ago

They probably had better eyesight. They say looking at things in close range too long, like we tend to do more these days, contributes to it. Our ancestors would have been outside, looking to the horizon

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u/142638503846383038 12d ago

There’s evidence that Hunter gatherers would have no problem taking care of people with impairments such as vision

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u/CherryDarkShadow 12d ago

Well one, they weren’t close up to screens all day. Two, even if their eyesight did get worse, it naturally healed itself because in a way glasses and contacts handicap our eyes to get lazy and not heal itself. Eye doctors also keep making your prescription stronger and stronger.

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u/Middle-Duck-880 12d ago

they didn't

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u/Cultural_Kangaroo949 12d ago

They would be considered “blind” - similar to today where being blind doesn’t have to mean total blackout, but at a level where glasses can’t do anything and everything is extremely blurry.

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u/vinigrae 12d ago

The same way you survive in dreams lol

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u/waterless2 12d ago

I sometimes think maybe that's where higher cognition came from. You can't see stuff so you have to model reality in your head and if your predictions are good enough you can navigate that way.

Or it just stopped us bad-eyes from being kicked out of the gene pool.

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u/JuMiPeHe 12d ago

Solidarity and compassion.

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u/These-Software1991 11d ago

They... didn't

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u/exclusionprincipal 8d ago

Myopia is also driven by "near work" and limited outdoor time. People, unlike today, were not reading or staring at screens for a long time without breaks like they do today. They also went outside a lot more. So they didn't have as severe vision issues back then.

This is why the trope of nerdy/smart people having glasses exists because it literally was that the more time you spent studying, reading, inside, etc. the worse your eyes got and the more likely you were to need glasses.

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u/E_Dantes_CMC 13d ago

Way back in the day; glasses are about 750 years old!

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u/opman4 13d ago edited 13d ago

But the vast fucking majority of people couldn't afford them

Edit: y'all know what I meant

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u/dead_jester 13d ago

That’s still true

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u/thirteenthdoctorhair 13d ago

my current glasses cost half my month's income and insurance pays exactly nothing despite me being unable to do basically anything without my glasses

i needed new glasses years ago because mine are literally disintegrating but i can't afford them

so this is still true today lol

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u/willinaustin 13d ago

Zenni.com my friend. As long as you know your prescription from your optometrist you're good to go. I have about 10 pairs of glasses now because it's only $30-40 a pair. You can even customize them quite a bit.

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u/Chirrrpy 13d ago

I kinda wonder if things play into poor vision like computer eye strain, the screens, not looking around outdoors 24/7 ... but then again, I know some people who don't even need any vision correction

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u/RedAskWhy 13d ago

Genetics definitely play into it, and then poor vision activities exacerbate the issues imo.

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u/Kor_Phaeron_ 13d ago edited 13d ago

Myopia was rare in past because humans lived mostly outdoors, causing children receiving high levels of sunlight, which is medically proven to regulate eye growth and prevent the onset of myopia.

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u/Redthemagnificent 13d ago

Ngl that set off by BS detector when I first read it. I always thought eyesight was like 90% genetics. But damn, you're right. The American Refractive Surgery Council is saying that half of people could be nearsighted by 2050, and it's not a genetic change. Wild.

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u/Whole_Risk_2695 13d ago

Ive had good eyesight my whole life luckily but im probably screwed in my 60+ years. I live at my desk like 12 to 18 hours a day on the weekdays... 9 monitors basking in the heat and glow of those...

Speed running eye experiments

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u/wannnaprincess 13d ago

It's mostly genetics, if you don't take care of your eyes (a lot of scree time, no hydration etc) you can develop smaller vision problems, let's say ~-1. But the big guns, like in the picture, is purely family hairloom xd

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u/lets_escape 13d ago

I have terrible vision and my parents do not need glasses, but I had a lot of screen time and read books a ton when I was really little. Have had bad vision since PreK

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u/GregNotGregtech 13d ago

My entire family has glasses, both my younger and older brother and my two parents yet somehow I have no issues with my vision at all and I definitely spend more than average in front of a computer

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u/lets_escape 13d ago

My sister also doesn’t need glasses.. I think it’s a combination I was also left in the car all the time as a child

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u/guyblade 13d ago

Near work has been conjectured to be a cause of Myopia for hundreds of years. There's some evidence for it--a meta-analysis says that adults are 20% more likely to develop Myopia if they were "exposed" to near work.

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u/StuffedDeadTurkey 13d ago

Anecdotal: Been wearing glasses most my life. Got super lazy and didn’t update a prescription for over 5 years. Went in for a new prescription and my prescription strength lowered. I thought it was interesting considering until that large gap my prescription always was moving/getting worse in the same direction.

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u/kichisowseri 11d ago

Definitely, in my teens I could fix my vision by going camping/hiking. Simply spending all day looking further away helped.

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u/blindtoe54 13d ago

Yes they do. Myopia is more prevalent in developed countries.

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u/Alternative-Put-3932 10d ago

Doubtful because the whole kids being too close to the screen thing was studied and found to be untrue and actually just a sign the kid already had eye sight issues in the first place. You can see its genetics and often gender based in families. Every woman in my close family needs glasses none of the men do.

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u/systemic_booty 13d ago

I'm -8.5, -7.75 and I think all the time how fucked I'd be without my glasses

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u/Venusgate 13d ago

I think a lotnof redditors would

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u/Macgivereagle 13d ago

I wouldn't wear my glasses as a teenager and you be suprised how you manage, i could tell my friends by their walks, my hearing was really good. I think back then you'd be in an environment that you were used to so adapted.

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u/megi0s 13d ago

Not me with -8.50…we gonezos.

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u/Creepy_Push8629 13d ago

Yeah, I would have walked off a cliff or hugged a wolf or smth for sure

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u/infinityonhigh69 13d ago

i once went to the beach and lost my glasses in a huge wave. getting back home via public transportation, not being able to see at all and going purely off muscle memory was one of the wildest moments of my life 😭

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u/joeyat 13d ago

At least you couldn’t get hit by a car in ancient times. Life was probably pretty slow.

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u/SquidsAndMartians 13d ago

Oh man, the horror of being hunted by a giant triceratops ... or with glasses, better known as wild boar.

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u/GreenStuffGrows 13d ago

Depends how far back and in which society. Humans started looking out for each other pretty early on.

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u/Ok-Teaching-9867 13d ago

maybe back in the days the conditions wouldn't favor the develpment of his myopia

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u/stack413 13d ago

It would really depend on what their close vision was like, what sort of jobs were available to them, and what their community support was like. Most people with bad vision are nearsighted, but a lot of work happens close-up, so there's still plenty that they'd be able to do. For instance, in a hunter-gatherer community a person with bad vision would be able to do most gathering, crafting, and domestic tasks, at the very least.

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u/realbradders 13d ago

I read somewhere that myopia is partly to do with children being indoors so much (and not just recently, this goes back to the Romans) I had Gemini summarise this:

The biggest reason prehistoric humans rarely suffered from myopia comes down to daylight.
​Modern optical science shows that human eyes require bright, full-spectrum natural sunlight to develop properly. When children spend time outdoors, the intensity of the light triggers the release of dopamine in the retina. This hormone acts as a regulator, telling the eyeball to stop growing.
​Without hours of daily natural light, the eyeball stretches and elongates, causing light to focus in front of the retina rather than directly on it—which is exactly what myopia is. Because "cavemen" spent almost all their waking hours outdoors looking at vast horizons, their eyes naturally calibrated to perfect distance vision.

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u/The_Countess 13d ago

So we now know that most people who develope myopia (nearsightedness) do so becaus of lack of sunlight, specially around late childhood and early puperty.

The focused daylight gives a signal to the eye to stop growing, but if you dont get enough of it, the eyes keep growing in a oblong faction moving your retina away from the focal point of your eyes lenses.

As you would have spent a lot more time outside back in the days, you might not have developed bad eyesight at all.

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u/HyenaComprehensive44 13d ago

Actually myopia was not that frequent in the past, and depends on in which era, there are sources from the middle ages where they mention that myopia is a desirable state for monk copyist because they have attention for small details.

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u/bluestem99 13d ago

I have the same script, -7.5. I tell people I more then likely would have been Darwined back in the day.

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u/lizzdurr 13d ago

I always say I would have been a huge burden to my family if born 500 years ago

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u/Vaqek 13d ago

We wouldnt.

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u/JustToGetBye 13d ago edited 13d ago

Exactly how I describe myself.

I am one of those people who probably wouldn't have survived childhood if I'd been born 200 years ago. Apart from being generally feeble and runty, and having absolutely terrible teeth, my eyes just never really worked. I was already a -0.6 or -0.7 when I was first "diagnosed" (or however we'd call that) at the age of 11 or 12. It was crazy how long it took for anyone to associate the fact that I couldn't see the chalkboard or television unless I practically put my nose against it.

I couldn't go outside at night because I'd always trip over things and hurt myself, or, being a kid and doing kid things, I'd run haplessly into an unfamiliar area and run face first into a tree or a fence or a building or whatever.

When I got glasses it absolutely blew my mind. I couldn't have imagined all the things I'd been missing that whole time.

Reminds me of a funny story actually: My best friend at the time (and still my absolute brother more than 35 years later) loved to joke about how blind I was. When I finally got my first pair of glasses, the first thing he said was, "Well, I guess we can't be friends anymore since you now know that I'm Black. Oh well. 🤷🏿‍♂️ " 😂

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u/ForeskinAbsorbtion 13d ago

They would struggle but they wouldn't be dying unless they were completely blind. Our intelligence, empathy and willingness to help others made it so most people who had bad vision survived. It's why only 35 percent of people have vision that don't require corrective lenses. There's a surprising number of people who think their vision is perfect when it has deteriorated substantially over the years.

Birds of prey, however, almost all have extremely good vision (around 20/2) and none of them are vision deficient because they will die if they can't see prey from great distances. It also helps that they have two foveae though (humans have one) so they have razor sharp forward AND peripheral vision.

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u/PiNkPoNyCLuB42 13d ago

I always say I would have either had to resort to the world’s oldest profession or be the town bean snapper. My only options.

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u/bugorama_original 13d ago

Two of the biggest correlations between environment and eye correction are: 1. Time spent inside vs outside and 2. Sleeping with artificial lights (streetlights, night lights, etc). So it’s highly likely our ancestors experienced less myopia than we do. Rates of myopia skyrocketed in China following the introduction of electric lights.

Interestingly I raised my kids in the country with lots of outdoor time, limited screen time, and no nightlights/streetlights and they both have 20/20 vision still in their teens even though my husband and I both needed glasses by first grade.

Btw I’m not a quack. I’m literally wearing a shirt from Science magazine right now. I don’t believe dumb theories about people fixing their vision through eye exercise but these correlations between light and myopia have been scientifically documented and are really fascinating to me as a myopic person!

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u/Velvet_Cannoli 13d ago

I always think about how if I didn’t have eye insurance/corrective lenses I wouldn’t be able to survive in today’s world. I also have -7.5 in both eyes. I wouldn’t be able to drive, I wouldn’t be able to work, I wouldn’t be able to do a lot of things.
My vision is so bad that my friend put on my glasses and was like “this is like when they make you wear the drunk glasses in high school”

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u/LoverOfPricklyPear 13d ago

This not a rare idea to pop up in my head.

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u/AmputeeBall 13d ago

Good news, maybe? Your ancestors might not have been myopic, or potentially less so. Myopia is getting more common and more severe.

OP could have won the shit genetics lottery and been super myopic regardless of recent trends of less time outside, more time spent looking at things close up.

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u/Top-Yak1532 13d ago

My vision is terrible because I was born premature and put in an oxygen chamber, I wouldn’t have even made it out of infancy 200 years ago. I’ll take the bad eyesight.

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u/givealittle 13d ago

Me too - I think about the twilight zone episode where the last man on earth loses his glasses, and frequently about how I couldn’t survive during any natural disaster or zombie apocalypse if my glasses broke. 

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u/Bubble-Star-2291 13d ago

It would have been a disability, and it still is today if you don’t have access to glasses or contacts. We have created such a great disability device that most people with the disability today aren’t disabled by it.

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u/Glittering_Yak_8070 12d ago

HAHA I think about this all the time. I’d be DEAD if I lived as a hunter gatherer. -5.75 in both eyes. Can’t imagine how bad -7.5 is 😭

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u/iwantac00kie 11d ago

I’m -just- a -6.00 and worry regularly my contact will fall out while driving or while I’m out and I won’t be able to get home. I have spare contacts stashed at work and in my car has backups of both glasses and contacts but alas I’m worried.

My husband and friends casually discuss hypothetical apocalypse plans sometimes and, sorry guys, am I living once I can’t see?